Unveiling the truth over the major Monero scam

[kbm]

Does ANYBODY care about Monero except for the flaming fanboys and Poloniex? No.  Most of the XMR market is being supported by Polo and the massive amount of fanboys there.  Lets look at some real proof.

...
...

Umm, no.  You are trying to muddy the water with a comparison of percents and ignoring the question/statement.  

Because your statement translates to "Does anyone care about Monero besides the people trading it on an exchange"

To which you answered 'no'. This is false because there are predictions of >10,000 people using the software (one of rpietila's posts I believe). There's less than 50 -100 people trolling the troll box pretty much all the time. I'm not really sure how you managed to draw a complete picture from <1% of the people involved in this coin. Also, from what I can see there's only 173k XMR up on PLX right now. I'm just not seeing how you're making a complete picture out of what's been about 5.7% of the currency.

He didn't answer/address your statement  because you've made an assumption and declared it as a factual answer. Logical people cannot answer your illogical reply, because there's no logic to it .. how are you missing that?

[XMRFanboy]

Does ANYBODY care about Monero except for the flaming fanboys and Poloniex? No.  Most of the XMR market is being supported by Polo and the massive amount of fanboys there.  Lets look at some real proof.

...
...

Umm, no.  You are trying to muddy the water with a comparison of percents and ignoring the question/statement.  

Because your statement translates to "Does anyone care about Monero besides the people trading it on an exchange"

To which you answered 'no'. This is false because there are predictions of >10,000 people using the software (one of rpietila's posts I believe). There's less than 50 -100 people trolling the troll box pretty much all the time. I'm not really sure how you managed to draw a complete picture from <1% of the people involved in this coin. Also, from what I can see there's only 173k XMR up on PLX right now. I'm just not seeing how you're making a complete picture out of what's been about 5.7% of the currency.

He didn't answer/address your statement  because you've made an assumption and declared it as a factual answer. Logical people cannot answer your illogical reply, because there's no logic to it .. how are you missing that?

HAHAHAHA really?  You are going to quote one of his "predictions"....  ">10,000 people using the software", really?  Show me 10,000 crypto users that want to try and use that command line wallet.  I doubt there are more than 1000 people using the software.

"I'm not really sure how you managed to draw a complete picture from <1% of the people involved in this coin."  Volume, little to no new signs of XMR support in and chat box, and lack of new users showing up in the XMR forum. 

"Also, from what I can see there's only 173k XMR up on PLX right now."  This is what is on the books.  There are a lot of XMR off the books.  There were 40,000 XMR sitting at 450k the other day.  It was pulled after several people started talking about it.  This was at the same time rpietila showed up.



From the XMR thread...

So, its none of my business but wth someone on the XMR team is doing with getting another coin on an exchange, do you know the shitstorm of fud this may cause.

Yeah I thought the same.

[samaricanin]

This tread was started as suspects, now moves into comedy 

[smooth]

lack of new users showing up in the XMR forum

Since I'm the one who frequently answers their questions about downloading, installing, and using the software I can tell you this is 100% wrong. There are new users all the time. Sometimes I wish there weren't so many (not really).

I also sometimes answer these questions on IRC and occasionally PM.

This idea of no new users is either wishful thinking on your part, or just made up, or both.

[kbm]

HAHAHAHA really?  You are going to quote one of his "predictions"....  ">10,000 people using the software", really?  Show me 10,000 crypto users that want to try and use that command line wallet.  I doubt there are more than 1000 people using the software.

You forget, that you (as the discreditor) must bear the burden of proof (much like I now have to do with anything I've tried to discredit). I accept that there's 10,000 people here, and eagerly await you to prove me differently .. not the other way around. Also, there's a GUI here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=683365.0

Volume, little to no new signs of XMR support in and chat box, and lack of new users showing up in the XMR forum.  

Volume? What volume? It's as if you're convinced there's only 600 BTC, and 200k XMR in the entire world. This is the same fallacious reasoning behind people saying their little project is going to directly displace litecoin. I don't understand the logic - there's trillions of dollars .. and it seems like people are constantly under the impression that what they see on coinmarketcap is all there really is ever. There are many new users showing up in the BTCtalk forum .. few if any of new people directly show up on any of the advertised XMR forums .. and I don't blame them. Darkcoin had almost nobody going to its forum until it had a significant value. Often times the individual coins forum can be thought of as the 'coin graveyard'. Interesting that you actually want people to go to the coin graveyard .. ulterior motives .. is it true? Hypothesis accepted!

Back to what we were talking about - there's plenty of signs of new support - the hashrate has been climbing steadily, we haven't made a new ATL that was lower than the previous ATL before a major uptrend started .. plenty of new people appear on the btctalk threads. If you're not seeing it, it's called 'confirmation bias' and you should look it up please.

This is what is on the books.  There are a lot of XMR off the books.  There were 40,000 XMR sitting at 450k the other day.  It was pulled after several people started talking about it.  This was at the same time rpietila showed up.

It's still only 213k XMR, 7.1% of the currency in circulation. We now have 1% of the people, 7.1% of the currency, and 3.2% of the marketcap in demand on PLX. That's like saying the entire United States is going to secede from the union because colorado wants to split into north and south colorado. Just not seeing how you can get any worthwhile information from that.

[OracionSeis]

H2. Monero's trade volumes are artificial
<>
Fact two — botnets
Monero is largely botnet mined and that has been confirmed on a number of occasions (even by the XMR devs themselves)
<>

Botnets are a real problem. One pool owner shared with me this info

[Cheesus]

H3. Monero's developers are not capable of developing the coin

The XMR team in their missives report a lot of work being done. However, we haven't seen any meaningful update for the last several months. Of course, the work on GUI wallet is in progress, buy GUI is not related to the underlying protocol, which XMR copied form Bytecoin and apparently cannot maintain any further.


Evidence 1 — bullshit Monero missives

Have a glance at the compilation of XMR missives. How many of them are meaningful? The problem is that XMR devs are good at creating the illusion of development while not touching any underlying module (unlike Bytecoin which e.g. implemented multisigs and reworked so many code lines in a month that GitHub cannot even show the diff).

• Jun 2nd - nothing special
• Jun 10th - determenistic wallet is a nice usability improvement to add but it has nothing to do with the protocol
• Jun 18th - nothing special
• Jun 27th - transaction splitting is somewhat close to the hardcore work
• July 6th — nothing at all
• July 20th — nothing special
• July 23rd — nothing special
• August 3rd — nothing special
• August 10th — nothing special
• August 16th — nothing special

The truth is, among all the well-promoted XMR "development" activities, they've only managed so far to release transaction splitting and deterministic wallet. Everything else you see is either an irrelevant micro change or "a work in progress", which has never been released. It's easy to make an illusion of hardwork development going on, but the fact is XMR developers are not delivering.

Take i2p integration as an example:

• Long promoted (mirror)
  
• Never released
• i2p switches to Anoncoin

The original blog post about "XMR partnership with i2p" has even been removed from the i2p project's blog. It is quoted in fluffypony's post, but cannot be found on the i2p website: fluffypony bragging (mirror), the blog post has been deleted

This situation is the best evidence. XMR devs are incompetent. Their "partnership" with i2p was yet another hype.


Evidence 2 - bugs

XMR devs roll out an undergraduate level C++ bug that might end up with users' money being lost:

proof, mirror
proof, mirror

Evidence 3 - copy&paste

XMR devs used to copy&paste code from other repositories (mostly, Bytecoin & Boolberry) without attribution.
Here is a pastebin of the Reddit post deleted from XMR subreddit.

   
    Monero XMR devs are copycats
     
    Bytecoin GitHub commit (5/15/2014): https://github.com/amjuarez/bytecoin/commit/baaa3484271e11398790bbf01ee4d7b19c68e3bb#diff-74021cb60bde0670646eb96a91e4443cR707
     
    Monero GitHub commit (5/25/2014):https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/3a3a8176782a4fa75b0607fba0393c9d4a1746be#diff-74021cb60bde0670646eb96a91e4443cR707
     
     
    After that Monero guys made a huuuuge PR company "Look what we have done to technology! We've fixed the bug while BCN devs haven't!".
    Congrats! You guys are so good at copy and paste! And you are super-pro at stealing ideas and passing them off as your own (from the very beginning of BitMonero, lol)
     
     
    I just want all MRO fans/investors to know about it.

XMR copies the code from BCN, but trolls to death anyone who does the same to their code. One particular case is out of all proportions. Here XMR devs blame XDN devs for breaking the copyright. However, it turns out that the code in question was originally developed by BCN and taken by XMR without attribution.

proof, mirror

Evidence 4 — unable to even launch Monero

You may not know it kids, but Monero was originally launched as Bitmonero on April 18th by thankful_for_today: the original thread (mirror).

What happened next is a bit of a mystery as thankful_for_today was absent for a couple of days only to find out that Bitmonero was taken over by the "community" and renamed to Monero. This implies that current XMR devs were even unable to launch their coin, which forced them to hijack the website and the github. They have just decided to exclude thankful_for_today from the team and that is how Monero was born.

That's it. The XMR core team knows the CryptoNote protocol that bad they couldn't even launch Bytecoin's fork themselves.


Evidence 5 - external opinions

All of this might well be the reason why the observers believe that XMR devs are incompetent

Help us get more unbiased opinions on XMR devs' capabilities


Implications

The XMR devs are not capable of maintaining their coin as they simply do not grasp CryptoNote tech in full. Bytecoin developers are the ones who created it and keep contributing. Having such an enemy is very scary if you cannot develop the protocol yourself. And that is why XMR bagholders are so cruel to both Bytecoin and CryptoNote. They don't need such an enemy, they aim to discredit it. No matter what it takes.

If we go back to H1 & H2, we can conclude that everything you see about Monero is fake. The Monero developers are not able to maintain and update the coin they've hijacked from thankful_for_today. In the meantime, botnet owners secure their profits by promoting XMR through purchased accounts, black PR, and fake trades. They continue to lure you into investing into their botnet mined currency so that they can profit.

There is no way to tell whether XMR developers are related to the botnet owners, but the reality is that each time you invest your money into XMR you are giving it away to the botnet owners.

Hypothesis 3 is accepted. Monero devs are not capable of Monero development (at least as of now).


Conclusions & TL-DR

1. Monero is largely botnet mined.
2. The trade volume on the exchanges is artificial and is mostly created by the botnet owners that are constantly selling the coin to those who has fell into their fake PR hype. Occasionally the exchange rate is saved by the XMR whale. Fundamentally, XMR is doomed to have a negative trend.
3. The PR activity on this forum is fake. The Monero community is much smaller than XMR shills pretend it to be. There are a lot of purchased hero and senior member accounts and relentless black PR activities. Everything is aimed at making you part with your money to supporting botnet operators by investing in XMR.
4. XMR devs cannot make any significant updates/improvements to the CryptoNote protocol and are doomed to stick to PR hype only while helping the botnets profit.

Based on the evidence above you are free to make your own conclusions.

If you manage to read the whole post, you will understand that XMR is a scam coin that you should avoid. There are no fundamentals for it to grow and develop and we're going to see XMR value go down to zero in the next half a year. Hopefully, afterwards this forum will finally have a break from their shills.

[smoothie]

... we haven't seen any meaningful update for the last several months.
...

We?

Speak for yourself buddy.

And to address your first line in your enormous post...

Have you actually looked at the code to see if there are or aren't changes? If not perhaps you should or have someone who can read code do so instead of pushing this facade of bullshit.

I didn't need to read the rest of your long post because I found one nugget of turd in the very first line.  

[Bit_Happy]

We know hes a scammer and he has nothing todo with xmr, jojo didn´t know him.
But the Bytecoin scammers are so busy with their own scam they don´t notice the other real scammers here and they think we are so stupid that quoting other scammers helps them.

Meanwhile in Bytecoin land: http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bytecoin-bcn/#markets

Volume (24h)
$ 70


No wonder they are sad.

Let us allow those who have never promoted any alt coin to cast the first stone.  
Seriously, is Monero big enough to even matter?

[kbm]

The XMR devs are not capable of maintaining their coin as they simply do not grasp CryptoNote tech in full. Bytecoin developers are the ones who created it and keep contributing. Having such an enemy is very scary if you cannot develop the protocol yourself. And that is why XMR bagholders are so cruel to both Bytecoin and CryptoNote. They don't need such an enemy, they aim to discredit it. No matter what it takes.

I noticed you've been saying 'we' lately .. so I'm going to take a leap of faith. There would likely be no 'XMR devs' at all if you people didn't launch an 82% mined coin into the public eye. That alone has lost you your crown, regardless of how much better you think you can manage the project. That your opinion is that they cannot manage it better than yourselves is a 'no shit' kind of statement - you fucking made the code. Then you tried to tell 6 billion people they can only ever have 18% of your fantastic creation. That's just not gonna fly in this reality. That's why BTCtalk members and people outside your closed community treat Bytecoin and CryptoNote like crap: Hypothesis rejected. As far as 'enemies' go: You're still open source, and for the most part not really a threat. You want your software to be in the hands of 6 billion people as much as we do; however, it won't be your efforts that bring it to them. That responsibility was taken from you, be it right or be it wrong - it is fact: Hypothesis accepted.

If we go back to H1 & H2, we can conclude that everything you see about Monero is fake. The Monero developers are not able to maintain and update the coin they've hijacked from thankful_for_today. In the meantime, botnet owners secure their profits by promoting XMR through purchased accounts, black PR, and fake trades. They continue to lure you into investing into their botnet mined currency so that they can profit.

Everything about Monero is more real than most everything I've seen in my entire short amount of time spent in this miserable forum. More real than the monitor in front of my face or the keyboard I type to you on. The developers will continue to live up to being able to maintain the code to an acceptably high quality - and it will take a different trajectory than you wanted it to. I get that you think that having 82% of the currency in your hands means it won't be in a botnets hands - but it violates a simple law that runs markets and gives things value: Everyone has paid the market price. You have not had a market for >80% of the existence of the currency, therefore you cannot follow this law. You lied, cheated and stole what you pretended to offer us - this is far more detrimental than any botnet can ever be. You did not pay the market price and now you're paying the ultimate price. If you would like to have some form of representation in the future of your project - I suggest you join teams with Monero now, else they (and those 6 billion people) will continue on without and despite you.

[fluffypony]

The XMR team in their missives report a lot of work being done. However, we haven't seen any meaningful update for the last several months. Of course, the work on GUI wallet is in progress, buy GUI is not related to the underlying protocol, which XMR copied form Bytecoin and apparently cannot maintain any further.

Why on earth would we constantly change the underlying protocol? Protocol changes will come when they are needed, not because we feel like making random changes to the protocol.

Have a glance at the compilation of XMR missives. How many of them are meaningful? The problem is that XMR devs are good at creating the illusion of development while not touching any underlying module (unlike Bytecoin which e.g. implemented multisigs and reworked so many code lines in a month that GitHub cannot even show the diff).

Commit early, commit often. Committing a whole bunch of changes in 1 commit is going to lead to a disaster when you have multiple people working on the same project, because everyone needs to rebase off everyone else's commits. I guess Bytecoin don't need to worry about that.

The truth is, among all the well-promoted XMR "development" activities, they've only managed so far to release transaction splitting and deterministic wallet. Everything else you see is either an irrelevant micro change or "a work in progress", which has never been released. It's easy to make an illusion of hardwork development going on, but the fact is XMR developers are not delivering.

Again, disingenuous given that we work in branches before committing to the development branch to make rebasing easier. Things are only merged into master (staging) when they are ready.

Take i2p integration as an example:

• Long promoted (mirror)
  
• Never released
• i2p switches to Anoncoin

I guess you must be struggling with your eyesight.



Prior to that blogpost, all the way back on July 25th, Meeh and I confirmed the formation of Privacy Solutions to enable i2pd development to progress to the benefit of both Anoncoin and Monero. Even further back in July the 13th's Missive this was set in motion when we said: "I2P: subsequent to discussions with the I2P team, we are going to be making a bit of a diagonal movement from libi2pcpp to i2pd. This should end up with us slightly ahead on the I2P integration project than we would've been. The major focus at the moment is getting TCP streaming (for persistent connections) to work, and that is where the largest focus is at present."

The original blog post about "XMR partnership with i2p" has even been removed from the i2p project's blog. It is quoted in fluffypony's post, but cannot be found on the i2p website: fluffypony bragging (mirror), the blog post has been deleted

This situation is the best evidence. XMR devs are incompetent. Their "partnership" with i2p was yet another hype.

It was replaced with this one: https://geti2p.net/en/blog/post/2014/08/15/The-privacy-solutions-project in order to clarify that we've moved away from i2pcpp and to i2pd instead. The original blog post is archived here: https://web.archive.org/web/20140703064626/https://geti2p.net/en/blog/post/2014/05/25/Monero-partnership

XMR devs roll out an undergraduate level C++ bug that might end up with users' money being lost:

Not a single person's money was lost. It was an error that was fixed in a branch and was not merged into master. That was, indeed, a grave mistake, one that has prompted us to focus on adding RPC unit tests so that this does not happen in future. TDD is hard when you're doing it in retrospect.

XMR devs used to copy&paste code from other repositories (mostly, Bytecoin & Boolberry) without attribution.

Not true.






We credit and attribute every time. Very early on there were some changes that were merged without attribution before this standard could be universally enforced, that is true. However, all of this changes are also in the CryptoNote Starter (the reference implementation) where it specifically says "Copyright the CryptoNote Developers", so we retain their copyright and really should be attributing the work to them and not Bytecoin.

XMR copies the code from BCN, but trolls to death anyone who does the same to their code. One particular case is out of all proportions. Here XMR devs blame XDN devs for breaking the copyright. However, it turns out that the code in question was originally developed by BCN and taken by XMR without attribution.

Blatantly incorrect. The github commit in question from Jun 2nd is clearly titled "Added 'payment_id' optional argument to 'transfer' wallet RPC method". The duckNote developer was confused, and implied that we were trying to claim we wrote the payment ID functionality initially. This is not true. Payment IDs were added to the reference code when it was still in the Bytecoin repository, and we acknowledge that CryptoNote wrote that. However, we added the payment ID option to the RPC call.

Contrary to what you claim, you can see where our code was taken and used by Bytecoin without attribution in their commit on June 25th -
https://github.com/amjuarez/bytecoin/commit/76bb193b0556aaaa3ffa5d48db7bd28eceb36300#diff-b7ff5388bca1357894178fd7f93d4ad8R55

They even took our exact code and stripped the comments out -
https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/117393d562fc9782efed0e1b25f6470d9f8102b2#diff-297e4d3d4221d9bf7ea37267597959f9R106
https://github.com/amjuarez/bytecoin/commit/76bb193b0556aaaa3ffa5d48db7bd28eceb36300#diff-297e4d3d4221d9bf7ea37267597959f9R88

Visually -

Our commit on June 2nd:


Bytecoin's commit on June 25th:


Again, Bytecoin did this without attribution. Even duckNote in their commit backed down and attributed us, and I have the utmost respect for them doing so.

Seriously, this stuff isn't rocket science to get right, I don't understand how your post can have so many gaping errors.

[farfiman]

He will soon be complaining that "fluffypony" has no time to work on Monero because he spends too much time answering forum posts.

[Ultros]

He will soon be complaining that "fluffypony" has no time to work on Monero because he spends too much time answering forum posts.

That would be the first legitimate concern emerging from this thread.

[CryptoBang]

so many controversial information!

guys, if you have more interesting facts about any coins - PM or use my site, I am now working on resource which is devoted to investigation the truth about cryptocurrencies.

Also, you can order an article, I will make a research about any article you want

[cryptomidnight]

On the “incompetent dev” note.

Usually XMR guys mention CN developers with the line
“Parts of this file are originally copyright (c) 2012-2013 The Cryptonote developers”

And these files are not the exception.

src/common/base58.cpp
src/common/base58.h
src/common/varint.h
src/connectivity_tool/conn_tool.cpp
src/crypto/crypto-ops.c
src/crypto/crypto-ops.h
src/crypto/initializer.h
src/crypto/random.c
src/crypto/random.h
src/crypto/tree-hash.c
src/cryptonote_core/cryptonote_basic_impl.h
src/cryptonote_core/cryptonote_boost_serialization.h
src/p2p/net_peerlist.h
src/serialization/binary_archive.h
src/serialization/binary_utils.h
src/serialization/crypto.h
src/serialization/debug_archive.h
src/serialization/json_archive.h
src/serialization/json_utils.h
src/serialization/serialization.h
src/serialization/string.h
src/serialization/variant.h
src/serialization/vector.h
src/simplewallet/password_container.cpp
src/simplewallet/password_container.h
src/platform/mingw/alloca.h
src/platform/msc/sys/param.h
src/platform/msc/alloca.h
src/platform/msc/inline_c.h
src/platform/msc/stdbool.h

The only difference is that XMR devs failed to mention that these files were not changed at all. What “parts” are you talking about in your copyright? If you’re using a whole file without any changes - say so. What’s the point in this little dirty trick?

[Hexah]

On the “incompetent dev” note.

Usually XMR guys mention CN developers with the line
“Parts of this file are originally copyright (c) 2012-2013 The Cryptonote developers”

And these files are not the exception.

src/common/base58.cpp
src/common/base58.h
src/common/varint.h
src/connectivity_tool/conn_tool.cpp
src/crypto/crypto-ops.c
src/crypto/crypto-ops.h
src/crypto/initializer.h
src/crypto/random.c
src/crypto/random.h
src/crypto/tree-hash.c
src/cryptonote_core/cryptonote_basic_impl.h
src/cryptonote_core/cryptonote_boost_serialization.h
src/p2p/net_peerlist.h
src/serialization/binary_archive.h
src/serialization/binary_utils.h
src/serialization/crypto.h
src/serialization/debug_archive.h
src/serialization/json_archive.h
src/serialization/json_utils.h
src/serialization/serialization.h
src/serialization/string.h
src/serialization/variant.h
src/serialization/vector.h
src/simplewallet/password_container.cpp
src/simplewallet/password_container.h
src/platform/mingw/alloca.h
src/platform/msc/sys/param.h
src/platform/msc/alloca.h
src/platform/msc/inline_c.h
src/platform/msc/stdbool.h

The only difference is that XMR devs failed to mention that these files were not changed at all. What “parts” are you talking about in your copyright? If you’re using a whole file without any changes - say so. What’s the point in this little dirty trick?

Lol. Monero's developers aren't capable of developing the coin, but they pretend they are.

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

What’s the point in this little dirty trick?

It's a secret call for brave crimefighthers to emerge.  It worked!!  Thank you!!

[fluffypony]

The only difference is that XMR devs failed to mention that these files were not changed at all. What “parts” are you talking about in your copyright? If you’re using a whole file without any changes - say so. What’s the point in this little dirty trick?

It's not a dirty trick, it just saves us the hassle of having to change licensing as and when we do touch one of those files. It's the equivalent of having *no* license headers, but then in the LICENSE file specifying that parts of the project are copyright the CryptoNote Developers - are you then supposed to list which parts are yours, maybe have a log of every line changed? No, because "git blame" does that already. Similarly, if anyone wants to know which parts of a specific file in the codebase have been modified, they could use "git blame" to see.

[fluffypony]

Lol. Monero's developers aren't capable of developing the coin, but they pretend they are.

Are we not doing the red anymore? I was told we were doing the red.

[fluffypony]

Contrary to what you claim, you can see where our code was taken and used by Bytecoin without attribution in their commit on June 25th -
https://github.com/amjuarez/bytecoin/commit/76bb193b0556aaaa3ffa5d48db7bd28eceb36300#diff-b7ff5388bca1357894178fd7f93d4ad8R55

They even took our exact code and stripped the comments out -
https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/117393d562fc9782efed0e1b25f6470d9f8102b2#diff-297e4d3d4221d9bf7ea37267597959f9R106
https://github.com/amjuarez/bytecoin/commit/76bb193b0556aaaa3ffa5d48db7bd28eceb36300#diff-297e4d3d4221d9bf7ea37267597959f9R88

Visually -

Our commit on June 2nd:


Bytecoin's commit on June 25th:

Bytecoin's developers aren't capable of developing the coin, and need to borrow code from Monero without attributing it.

See, two can play this game. The difference is that mine has actual verifiable proof.