Unveiling the truth over the major Monero scam

[smooth]

The OP outline is very convincing.

How the hell can an "outline" be convincing?

"Evidence" is either convincing or not (or nonexistent, as in this case).

An outline is nothing.

[1714851075]

1714851075

[1714851075]

1714851075

[coins101]

The OP outline is very convincing.

How the hell can an "outline" be convincing?

"Evidence" is either convincing or not (or nonexistent, as in this case).

An outline is nothing.

Why is everyone taking issue with my views?

I found Ethereum IPO very convincing, but as they offered no evidence I didn't invest.

I did say:

Until there is evidence of a scam, targeting BTC whales and purchasing of accounts to effectively create a boiler room type scam, then this goes nowhere and people should use judgement to take a careful look at this from both sides of the fence.

If anyone has issues, taken them up with the OP.

[smooth]

If anyone has issues, taken them up with the OP.

We did. OP came up with this for supporting evidence. I was not convinced, but I'd order one

LOL  
Fixed a design for you

[Brilliantrocket]

Literally nothing in the OP is evidence of Monero being a scam. Every coin is hyped. The fact that Monero has more supporters than some other coins is not evidence of a scam, it's evidence of a project that is growing organically. Having whales is now an offense? Come out with some arguments that aren't utter tripe.

[XMRFanboy]

XMR got pumped to over .00500 and then dumped.  To all you XMR suckers that are getting pulled into the hype:

http://cryptocointools.com/troll-log/?msg=&user=rpietila&submit=Filter
1 hour ago   rpietila   Jojatekok, I don't think anyone should sell xmr, but I still think price should drop to 420 or 400.
1 hour ago   rpietila   kuriso, I was a seller over 500, and then at 482 but nothing below 470.

This is just what he admits too.  I would consider it to be much more.
11 mins ago   rpietila   Somebody wanted to know this so here you go - my xmr trading since it first hit 470 (about 1.5days ago)
10 mins ago   rpietila   has made 1.6 btc profit before fees
9 mins ago   rpietila   but the options notionally make me 15-25%
9 mins ago   rpietila   about 6000 per month if I could keep the pace

9 mins ago   Nekomaou   i rather have rpietila controlling 4% of xmr volume than some slimy chinese whale
7 mins ago   Nekomaou   rpietila, you are the whale xmr deserves c;
 
4 hours ago   Jojatekok   xmrhodler, Risto and Aminorex won't leave the price sinking below 420k
4 hours ago   xmrhodler   Aminorex understands that a retracement to 42 is very healthy for xmr


I say make bank with XMR all you want but you better know who you're playing with.  They are not looking out for the future of XMR.  They are not true believers, if you want to get sucked into that crap too.

[rikkejohn]

Literally nothing in the OP is evidence of Monero being a scam. Every coin is hyped. The fact that Monero has more supporters than some other coins is not evidence of a scam, it's evidence of a project that is growing organically. Having whales is now an offense? Come out with some arguments that aren't utter tripe.

You may be a rocket scientist, but your use of logic is not very good.

P. Every coin is hyped (wrong)
P. The fact that Monero has more supporters than some other coins is not evidence of a scam (no factual evidence)
C. it's evidence of a project that is growing organically (even if 2 was true, 3 does not follow)

Tut!

[coinits]

XMR got pumped to over .00500 and then dumped.  To all you XMR suckers that are getting pulled into the hype:

http://cryptocointools.com/troll-log/?msg=&user=rpietila&submit=Filter
1 hour ago   rpietila   Jojatekok, I don't think anyone should sell xmr, but I still think price should drop to 420 or 400.
1 hour ago   rpietila   kuriso, I was a seller over 500, and then at 482 but nothing below 470.

This is just what he admits too.  I would consider it to be much more.
11 mins ago   rpietila   Somebody wanted to know this so here you go - my xmr trading since it first hit 470 (about 1.5days ago)
10 mins ago   rpietila   has made 1.6 btc profit before fees
9 mins ago   rpietila   but the options notionally make me 15-25%
9 mins ago   rpietila   about 6000 per month if I could keep the pace

9 mins ago   Nekomaou   i rather have rpietila controlling 4% of xmr volume than some slimy chinese whale
7 mins ago   Nekomaou   rpietila, you are the whale xmr deserves c;
 
4 hours ago   Jojatekok   xmrhodler, Risto and Aminorex won't leave the price sinking below 420k
4 hours ago   xmrhodler   Aminorex understands that a retracement to 42 is very healthy for xmr


I say make bank with XMR all you want but you better know who you're playing with.  They are not looking out for the future of XMR.  They are not true believers, if you want to get sucked into that crap too.

Just an observation...you would have been taken more seriously by using your real account, not some knockoff created for attacking Monero. Man up.

[darlidada]

YOU HEARD THE BCN SHILLS ? WE ARE GOING DOWN !!!



Or are WE?

[othe]

lol.

Change 7 days: +20.6%
Change 30 days: +6.8%

Such dump.

compared to Litecoin:
Change 7 days: -5.06
Change 30 days: -21.79


Rikkejohn, you are so dumb.

[DogTheHunter]

I have a lot tied up in XMR, but I want to know what this all about and why no one has mentioned it before.

Guys, is this:

1. true?
2. what does it mean?

All sorts of crap find there way on to the internet, so I'm not sure, but it sounds pretty convincing.

Minting Money with Monero ... and CPU vector intrinsics

I woke up on May 28th, 2014, on vacation with my family in the middle of the desert, to find a copy of my private source code plastered across the bitcointalk message board.  Announced as a "new optimized version" of the Monero currency miner, it was enthusiastically adopted by cryptocurrency miners across the world.  And in the process of doing so, my daily profit from the Monero Mining Project dropped by over five thousand dollars per day.

But let's start at the beginning, when I started getting in to a loose collaboration with three people I've never met---one whose name I'm not even confident I really know---with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of a nebulous new cryptocurrency at stake.

It started with a cryptic note from someone I'd met online, with a link to a bitcointalk.org message board discussion for a new currency called "bitmonero".  His note said only:

 "this looks interesting."

From prior collaborations with him, I knew he had a good nose for opportunities in cryptocurrencies.  Within an hour or two, he followed up noting:

"Regarding bitmonero it is profitable with aws with the wallet miner. Seem like some people have got optimised miner which is a few times faster as well so there obviously room for improvement..."

AWS, of course, was Amazon Web Services' spot market, which will let you cheaply rent mind-boggling amounts of compute power on short (1 hour) timescales.  AWS profitability is a key ingredient for making money on cryptocurrency mining, because it scales:  You can rent one machine or 10,000, and the only thing you have to worry about is if you start to use too many, the price will go up.

I was busy with the end of the semester and didn't respond quickly.  The next day, I had an email from him offering 1 Bitcoin (about $600) to develop a 5x faster miner, and from chat, we discussed splitting the profits after that 50/50.  I was still feeling overwhelmed with real work, but I took a brief look at the code, and something... well, something smelled funny.  So funny that I got home, couldn't get it out of my head, and spent the next 6 hours playing around with it -- and got a 3x speedup.

The next day, I dropped my contact a note:

I'm giving it a little go at rewriting the entire thing in SSE for fun. I finally get it - they basically took scrypt as their model but make the whole thing a big long dependent chain. Hard to shave memory but at the cost of slow verification.

Followed a day later by raising that to a 5x speedup, and then an 8x speedup, and within a week, an 11x speedup.  That was pretty remarkable, given that a developer had already started trickling optimizations into the codebase.

The more I looked at it, the more clear it became:  The original developers deliberately crippled the miner.  It wasn't just slow, and it wasn't just naive;  it was deliberately obfuscated and made slow by the use of completely superfluous copies, function calls, use of 8 bit pointer types, and accompanied by the most ridiculously slow implementation of the AES encryption algorithm one could imagine.

Now, the history of "Bitmonero" (now called Monero) started to become relevant.  In Feb 2014, an anonymous group of developers released a coin called "Bytecoin" based on an entirely new implementation of a bitcoin-like cryptocurrency called Cryptonote, but with much stronger anonymity built in through the use of a clever Diffie-Hellman like mechanism for encrypting destination addresses and the use of Rivest's ring signatures to provide a transaction-level mixnet without the need for realtime mixing.  It's not perfect, but it's clever, and the most important thing is that it's new, and fundamentally different from Bitcoin.  That attracted a lot of attention.

But when Bytecoin was released, it was presented as though it emerged from two years on the "dark web" (Tor onion sites and the like), during which time, 80% of the possible coins that could ever be minted, had been minted.  The reception in the cryptocurrency community was heavily skeptical.

My strong belief is that the skepticism was warranted: Here's the original slow-hash from bytecoin as it was copied into Bitmonero.  It has some doozies.  For example, on line 100, you might note that for every iteration through an inner loop repeated tens of thousands of times, the AES key is re-imported into the library.  The later loop, starting on line 113, is repeated half a million times, and is so abstracted through lots of memcpys and pointer manipulation it's hard to tell that all it really does is one round of AES encryption, a pointer dereference into a random scratchpad, a 64 bit multiplication, and another pointer dereference.  Phew.  This original code was roughly 50x slower than my final optimized code, and could have easily been used to fake two years of blockchain data on a single computer or a small cluster.  I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

Bitmonero was a fork of Bytecoin designed to not have the 80% premine.  But its initial developer either didn't know, didn't care, or wanted to profit from the de-optimized hashing.  That initial developer was pretty quickly given the boot by the community, and in came an unrelated group of developers who took it over---who were, as far as I can tell, completely unaware of the deoptimization.  So things sat there for a few weeks in the same state as Bytecoin.

By the time I got into it, developer "NoodleDoodle" (hey, this is crypto, people can pick whatever names they want -- Satoshi Nakamoto?) had already untwisted the first "de-optimization" with the AES encryption key.  But the rest was ripe pickin's.  Most importantly, the entire use of AES in the inner loop was one instruction on modern x86 CPUs.

This was a brilliantly designed proof-of-work function targeting the strengths of modern CPUs -- native AES encryption and fast 64 bit multipliers -- tuned to use a scratchpad exactly the size of the per-core L3 cache on Intel CPUs (about 2MB) that someone then wrapped in such a thick blanket of crap it was nearly unrecognizable until you started jumping in, tearing it apart, and putting it back together again.

Here's what it looks like without the crud (diagram shows one round):  Some initial 128 bit values are determined by hashing the block state using a Keccak (sha3) variant - call them A and B.  The big lookup table is also populated using that same state, mixed around using AES.  Then, executed 500,000 times, are rounds of mixing as shown at the right:  Use A to determine a pseudorandom location in the scratchpad, take that, mix it in, AES encrypt it (one round), use the result to determine a second location, use that in a 64 bit multiply, store it back, and repeat.  Elegantly simple.

I didn't have the AWS account limits (or credit cards!) to really do it right, so I delivered some code to my contact and we went to town.

By the 14th of May, we were 45% of the total hashing power on the coin.  Things started to get a little exciting:

I think i should make almost 6 btc in the last 24hr... will send you 3 if i manage to sell all the MRO.

$1500 per day was starting to seem like a very interesting ROI.  I gave up on sleep for a while, and begged my family for permission to continue the project for a few hours per day while we were on vacation.  Permission granted.  I decided we'd made the right decision when on May 21st, we each netted 13 BTC (about $6500 USD), and 17BTC the next day.  I think we exceeded 60% of the net hash of the coin at a few points.  That's enough to play nasty games, but we weren't interested in that (and doing so would have required me to understand the rest of the code much more deeply than I had), so we just sold as fast as we could mine.

That was eye-opening.  Because of the newness of the codebase and its actual, significant technical advances in anonymity (and a lot of growing pains and scalability challenges notwithstanding), a decent bit of Bitcoin money started flowing in to the coin.  Some well-known and less well-known folks who'd made millions investing in Bitcoin started viewing Monero as an interesting high-risk hedge for a small percent of their Bitcoin holdings.

By May 16th, I'd squeezed about 90% of the optimizations out of it, and we were running 100x faster than the coin was at its initial release.  That didn't stop me from obsessing about speed tweaks for the next week or so, but it gave me a little breathing room to start thinking about the next step.

The natural evolution of cryptocurrencies is that they start out being mined on CPUs, because that's easy.  Then someone writes a GPU-optimized miner for them.  The big ones jump to FPGA and then ASIC, though as far as the general community knows, only coins using SHA256d (Bitcoin and family) and scrypt (Litecoin, Dogecoin, etc.) have ASIC implementations.

So, why not take the next leap?  We needed a GPU miner to keep ahead of the inevitable optimizations that others would release.  In fact, the writing was already on the horizon -- NoodleDoodle had released another 2x speedup already, and was talking about getting an even bigger one out.  It was only a matter of time until some of the dangerous experts in crypto started getting involved, and yvg1900 had been talking about developing a miner for Monero.  The altcoin mining software world is small enough that there aren't too many people out there who can beat my optimizations without help, but yvg is one of them, and I knew that once he was in the game, before too long, I and everyone else would be running his code instead.

(And history showed that this was right - his final release beat my code by about 10%, and he was nice enough to share a few x86/Haswell micro-op optimization ideas with me.)

I've developed some GPU miner software as I blogged about earlier, but I'm not the best out there.  Fortunately, in the process of doing so, I met some of the best.  I dropped them a note, explained the opportunity, and they signed on.  Pretty soon, we had in our arsenal not only a super-fast CPU miner, but also a great little GPU miner.

The beauty of having both was that it reduced our cost basis by a factor of two.  While the GPU miner wasn't all that much faster than a CPU miner, due to the way pricing on the spot market often works out, you can rent a machine with a GPU for a similar price to one that only has a CPU.  So within a few weeks, we were able to mine on both the GPU and CPU at the same time.

Which was fortunate, because that rock-in-my-guts May 28th incident rolled around sooner than I'd have ever guessed.

From what I can back-patch of it, my contact checked with another developer to see if there was room to further optimize my code on a contract basis.  I don't know the details of that contact, so I won't speculate, but something somewhere went very wrong, and the other developer incorporated my optimizations into an open source release.  Overnight, our edge started to disappear.

I gave up sleep for another night and eked out one last 5% performance boost to my code, but now we were really depending on having fast GPU code and on minimizing mining cost.  We all spent some time benchmarking and running price/performance analyses about the types of instances available at Amazon, and reduced the cost a little through that.  But then we got the GPU miner done, and, bogglingly, found ourselves back in business!

Things continued well for a week or two, until on June 4, another GPU developer, Claymore, released his own GPU miner -- but it targeted only AMD GPUs, and Amazon's were Nvidia.  It was also more than 2x slower than ours -- three cheers for fast code.  We held our breath waiting for an onslaught of new miners, but it never came.  My best guess is that the newness of the Cryptonote software, as well as some difficulty getting it running because of a lot of dependencies on Boost and other libraries, scared a lot of people off and kept the technical barriers to entry high.

In the end, our game continued into July -- almost two months of mining at an advantage large enough to make a profit on Amazon.  We spent over a quarter of a million dollars renting cloud compute time, to the point where I had a great phone call with the manager of the Spot instance program at Amazon who was trying to figure out how they could improve usability for weirdos like us.

It was a wild experience, and while I was, ahh, financially inconvenienced by the code leak, I'm also obliquely glad my optimizations made their way into the public (I'd have released them eventually, but hadn't planned on doing it quite so early).  It's informative that throughout the many ways I've explored of getting paid to improve the state of the art in cryptocurrency software, the most profitable by over an order of magnitude was the most greedy approach of keeping the software entirely private.  That's something the developers of future currencies should ponder -- it's probably worth up-front investment to pay someone to release an optimized CPU and GPU optimized miner for your coin, because if they're making a profit afterwords, it could be very hard to convince them to give up the margin.

25 lines mixing C, one instruction of inline assembly, and some AVX intrinsics -- one of the most fun, exciting, and profitable side projects I've ever been involved in.  Like everything in crypto, it moved at the speed of light -- it was like launching and then folding up a small startup in the course of two months.  And that's why I now have 6 high-end GPU mining rigs in my basement to heat the house through winter and some fun war stories about the importance of operational security and paying attention to low-level programming tricks in school.

(As a note:  I make some positive statements about Monero in here, and I really do admire the technical advance it represents in anonymous cryptocurrencies.  But please don't read anything I'm writing here as suggesting I think you should buy it -- I view all cryptocurrencies as exceptionally high risk, on a spectrum from "eek" to "stay the heck away!"  There's an enormous amount of risk in all of the currencies, and while I talked about the technical positives of Monero here, it also has some very significant technical challenges.  I don't personally own any, nor do I hold any Bitcoin - I mine and sell for the most part, to minimize my risk exposure.)

http://da-data.blogspot.de/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

3. David - you posted on the thread -

How to make a huge amount of money by NOT going open-source.

It is important to note that it could have ended up killing the coin, because too much of an advantage a people abandon the coin completely.
But I assume when you're making that big amount of money, you don't really care about killing a coin, even it it could in retrospect be a major blow for the future of money.

#monero  

This makes me think this is true?

The answer I got back was:

Guys, is this:

1. true?
2. what does it mean?

1. yes.
2. nothing really. artforz had most of the blocks on the bitcoin network back in the day mining with his closed source opencl miner on 4870s. asicminer had most of the hashrate in late 2012-2013 with asics. XMR is like an accelerated version of bitcoin in many ways aside from just emission.

I don't think the answers are sufficient to just ignore this situation. Its fucked up and its fucked with my head. I've tried to take some time out but it just doesn't add up. How can this have happened without anyone knowing, and why doesn't it seem to matter? Its not like it happened years ago, it was still going on last month. The guy says he thinks its all cool and xmr is great, but that only means he's got bucket loads of near free coins. he managed to spend over $250k in mining costs over just a few months.

[smooth]

I don't think the answers are sufficient to just ignore this situation. Its fucked up and its fucked with my head. I've tried to take some time out but it just doesn't add up. How can this have happened without anyone knowing, and why doesn't it seem to matter? Its not like it happened years ago, it was still going on last month. The guy says he thinks its all cool and xmr is great, but that only means he's got bucket loads of free coins. he managed to spend over $250k mining in costs over just a few months.

WTF? How did he spend $250K and get "free" coins?

He was part of a very large mining operation, which spent a lot of money on mining. My guess is that the profit margin toward the end "last month" (i.e. "month before last" in <3 hours) before they shut down was pretty low. Their biggest advantage was in the period before the current dev team fixed it. But don't believe me, read what the writer of that blog post wrote about it:

tl;dr:  Bytecoin was a scam, they crippled the miner, Monero inherited it when Monero was still "bitmonero", and it took a while before the Monero devs got the code fast by undoing the crap that Bytecoin had added.  During that time, I made some money.  After that time, I didn't.  That time has been over for a long time.

To their credit, the Monero devs have always been up-front that there's a lot of work to be done with respect to auditing, both in cryptography and design, and in implementation, and they've made credible progress at doing so.  One hopes that any baggage from the cryptonote/bytecoin fork has been priced in and is well understood by the community, given that the coin's been around for months and the developers have been very up front about these things and their plans for addressing those risks.

[Brilliantrocket]

Literally nothing in the OP is evidence of Monero being a scam. Every coin is hyped. The fact that Monero has more supporters than some other coins is not evidence of a scam, it's evidence of a project that is growing organically. Having whales is now an offense? Come out with some arguments that aren't utter tripe.

You may be a rocket scientist, but your use of logic is not very good.

P. Every coin is hyped (wrong)
P. The fact that Monero has more supporters than some other coins is not evidence of a scam (no factual evidence)
C. it's evidence of a project that is growing organically (even if 2 was true, 3 does not follow)

Tut!

My statement was not meant to be an argument, merely a representation of my beliefs based on personal observation over a period of time. I have no hard data to prove that Monero is growing organically, but my observations have convinced me that is the case. My original point that the OP is bereft of any real substance still stands, however. It's pure speculation, and reeks of desperation.

[othe]

Quote from: DogTheHunter on Today at 09:16:10 PM
I don't think the answers are sufficient to just ignore this situation. Its fucked up and its fucked with my head. I've tried to take some time out but it just doesn't add up. How can this have happened without anyone knowing, and why doesn't it seem to matter? Its not like it happened years ago, it was still going on last month. The guy says he thinks its all cool and xmr is great, but that only means he's got bucket loads of free coins. he managed to spend over $250k mining in costs over just a few months.

The sum DGA made was peanuts compared to Litecoin for example.

"In the first 96 hours, we see a well defined curve that demonstrates instamining occurred, showing 450,000 LTC being created in less than 6 hours. "

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

They are not true believers

If they were true believers, they would try to accumulate at higher prices, not lower prices, right?

[rpietila]

This is just what he admits too.  I would consider it to be much more.
11 mins ago   rpietila   Somebody wanted to know this so here you go - my xmr trading since it first hit 470 (about 1.5days ago)
10 mins ago   rpietila   has made 1.6 btc profit before fees

Remember having said that. Right after the others were asking if I really don't have better things to do than spending 1.5 days glued to the keyboard to earn about €500. I needed to defend myself saying that if I did not, the Monero liquidity would be much less than it is now, and proceeded by saying that 35% of the bids above the recent bottom were actually mine, because nobody else had had time to fill his.

I have also had 25% of the bids in BTC China, and there we were talking about 50x bigger money.

Monero to me is currently nothing that I plan to support me financially. I support Monero, with providing support to the devs, liquidity to the markets, marketing, even technology.

But the enemies are trembling - Monero is like a battle line where the largest battleships of Bitcoin are taking their place, loaded and constantly loading with more coins, ready to unleash the financial privacy upon everyone who might be interested.

[OrientA]

Honestly ask yourself, can you ever see somebody like Warren Buffet actively recommending a coin with a name like "Monero" to his newsletter-readers? Do you honestly see any merchants adopting Monero the same way they are beginning to adopt BTC and LTC?

Does any merchant adopt LTC?

[XMRFanboy]

This is just what he admits too.  I would consider it to be much more.
11 mins ago   rpietila   Somebody wanted to know this so here you go - my xmr trading since it first hit 470 (about 1.5days ago)
10 mins ago   rpietila   has made 1.6 btc profit before fees

Remember having said that. Right after the others were asking if I really don't have better things to do than spending 1.5 days glued to the keyboard to earn about €500. I needed to defend myself saying that if I did not, the Monero liquidity would be much less than it is now, and proceeded by saying that 35% of the bids above the recent bottom were actually mine, because nobody else had had time to fill his.

I have also had 25% of the bids in BTC China, and there we were talking about 50x bigger money.

Monero to me is currently nothing that I plan to support me financially. I support Monero, with providing support to the devs, liquidity to the markets, marketing, even technology.

But the enemies are trembling - Monero is like a battle line where the largest battleships of Bitcoin are taking their place, loaded and constantly loading with more coins, ready to unleash the financial privacy upon everyone who might be interested.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

This is just what he admits too.  I would consider it to be much more.
11 mins ago   rpietila   Somebody wanted to know this so here you go - my xmr trading since it first hit 470 (about 1.5days ago)
10 mins ago   rpietila   has made 1.6 btc profit before fees

Remember having said that. Right after the others were asking if I really don't have better things to do than spending 1.5 days glued to the keyboard to earn about €500. I needed to defend myself saying that if I did not, the Monero liquidity would be much less than it is now, and proceeded by saying that 35% of the bids above the recent bottom were actually mine, because nobody else had had time to fill his.

I have also had 25% of the bids in BTC China, and there we were talking about 50x bigger money.

Monero to me is currently nothing that I plan to support me financially. I support Monero, with providing support to the devs, liquidity to the markets, marketing, even technology.

But the enemies are trembling - Monero is like a battle line where the largest battleships of Bitcoin are taking their place, loaded and constantly loading with more coins, ready to unleash the financial privacy upon everyone who might be interested.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

2 day ago   rpietila   maqa71, of XMR at least I know full well that I cannot use it for anything.

kuriso, are you going to be the last holdout in the big XMR/BBR happy family?  And why are you using such a funny BCT name?

[rpietila]

Now the troll has happily fallen on my trolling. Well done, me! 

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

Monero not a scam, but it turns out a very bad coded shitty coin.

The outcome for the holders is the same: