Unveiling the truth over the major Monero scam

[DogTheHunter]

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/507427225927708672   uhhh ohhh

So what? The code base is brand new and needs work. Every Monero investor should know this.

Bitcoin was crap as a stack of cards at one point, it even had freaking goto loops in the code.

Lets keep the record straight: Bitcoin v1.0 had significantly better code quality than Cryptonote does from what I've seen; I just checked and there weren't any goto statements in the codebase. Cleaning up this mess isn't going to be easy, although it certainly is doable.

I'd strongly suggest taking the good part of Cryptonote - the ring signatures - and porting them over to the Satoshi codebase. Monero could be re-released based on that much better codebase and the UTXO set ported over at the same time so all coin owners on the old system were coin owners on the new system.

Creating an exodus option to move over to Bitcoin codebase would be the death of Monero.



There have been too many issues that have come to light recently.

The mining exploit that has been going on and has just been disclosed shocked me.

This attack, given Peter Todd's analysis, is just another major issue that I'm finding it hard to live with.

It's starting to sound like the original Cryptonote code was used to scam people by introducing something new and different. Those of us that have bought into its promise, in good faith, may just be at the tail end of the scam.

This looks like an unravelling of the problems, not a temporary blimp. At the back of my mind now is: 'what next?'

I'm an investor, Peter Todd is more competent to give a technical analysis. It doesn't look good.

Exactly. Pretty much directly after the Mining Software disclosure I got out with a good 30% profit. And I'm pretty sure I won't regret it, ever.

Peter Todd's first Twitter post has been removed and all that is left is something less frank and open about his true views. Guess if you are being paid you should try not to say your clients crap is 'crap'.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/507427225927708672

I'm out of this shit. Far too much manipulation going on. It stinks to high heaven.

[1714604627]

1714604627

[rpietila]

Peter Todd's first Twitter post has been removed and all that is left is something less frank and open about his true views. Guess if you are being paid you should try not to say your clients crap is 'crap'.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/507427225927708672

Yes, in fact this is a normal corporate practice. We probably all agree that big parts of Cryptonote code (now Monero code) IS 'crap', but spending time complaining about it is indeed not the thing you should do if you are being employed to fix it. 

I'm out of this shit. Far too much manipulation going on. It stinks to high heaven.

You would be more qualified to say so if you had any to begin with. Also it's very hard to see manipulation in this turn of events.

[smooth]

Peter Todd's first Twitter post has been removed and all that is left is something less frank and open about his true views. Guess if you are being paid you should try not to say your clients crap is 'crap'.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/507427225927708672

I'm out of this shit. Far too much manipulation going on. It stinks to high heaven.

I'm not going to comment on the twitter thing (I don't know why he changed it) but the fact is the code really isn't that bad (other than having a bug in it). I thought otherwise when I first saw is (and yes comments would help) but apparently it is a pretty direct implementation of a standard algorithm for finding the highest bit set. That's pretty close to 'clz' described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_first_set

I likewise wouldn't be surprised if the flat tree construction in the latter part of the function were also a somewhat standard idiom. It's obviously written by someone with a different background and perspective than Peter (or me) and indeed if we are going maintain it we probably have to rewrite a lot of that stuff as a practical matter.

How this relates to the 'Monero scam' I have no idea.

[Its About Sharing]

Peter Todd's first Twitter post has been removed and all that is left is something less frank and open about his true views. Guess if you are being paid you should try not to say your clients crap is 'crap'.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/507427225927708672

I'm out of this shit. Far too much manipulation going on. It stinks to high heaven.

I'm not going to comment on the twitter thing (I don't know why he changed it) but the fact is the code really isn't that bad (other than having a bug in it). I thought otherwise when I first saw is (and yes comments would help) but apparently it is a pretty direct implement of a standard algorithm for finding the highest bit set. That's pretty close to 'clz' described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_first_set

I likewise wouldn't be surprised if the flat tree construction in the latter part of the function were also a somewhat standard idiom. It's obviously written by someone with a different background and perspective than Peter (or me) and indeed if we are going maintain it we probably have to rewrite a lot of that stuff as a practical matter.

How this relates to the 'Monero scam' I have no idea.

It has nothing to do with it and is part of a larger effort to lower trust in and attack XMR. This thread was started on August 25. Roughly a week later Monero is attacked by someone with an intimate knowledge of it. Lots of sock puppets were active during this whole period on the Monero threads. The supernet thing is suddenly started with special cooperation with BBR. Is this all a coincidence? Generally we call something a coincidence as that is all that is left when we apply a bad theory. (Heard that before.)

[Peter Todd]

Peter Todd's first Twitter post has been removed and all that is left is something less frank and open about his true views. Guess if you are being paid you should try not to say your clients crap is 'crap'.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/507427225927708672

I'm out of this shit. Far too much manipulation going on. It stinks to high heaven.

I removed it because I meant to say "much of" - the Tweet as originally written gave the inaccurate impression that Cryptonote is written exclusively in C, which just isn't true. I removed it pretty quickly, within about an hour.

Anyway, code quality is a relative thing; consensus-critical code in cryptocoins needs to have very high standards to be safe and secure. In most cases something like this set of unittests for this code that I'm working on for another project would be considered pretty good, but in the context of consensus-critical I'd consider that code to be really rushed. It'll take a lot more documentation and testing before I'd be anywhere close to trusting it, as well as more thought towards how to make sure others can easily read the code. Even then I still have my doubts that the algorithm is worth the relatively high complexity and thus peer-review penalty compared to a more simple algorithm. (not to mention the language - Python - is kinda suspect due to typesafety issues) But I am on a deadline to get a prototype done, so it'll do for now.

[smooth]

I removed it because I meant to say "much of" - the Tweet as originally written gave the inaccurate impression that Cryptonote is written exclusively in C, which just isn't true. I removed it pretty quickly, within about an hour.

In fact the only part that is written in C are the crypto libraries, most of which probably came from other projects (though much the history is not visible to us).

That doesn't mean rest is good, but it isn't C.

[Peter Todd]

I removed it because I meant to say "much of" - the Tweet as originally written gave the inaccurate impression that Cryptonote is written exclusively in C, which just isn't true. I removed it pretty quickly, within about an hour.

In fact the only part that is written in C are the crypto libraries, most of which probably came from other projects (though much the history is not visible to us).

Yup, which is a pretty serious problem because you need to be able to audit that those libraries were actually copied over correctly, are up to date, and actually do what they claim to do; sounds like there's even real reasons to suspect that the codebase may even have backdoors and other flaws deliberately added by the original CN team, let alone more prosaic flaws. While Bitcoin's use of OpenSSL had it's own set of problems, it did ensure that the huge C codebase of OpenSSL was at least the same huge C codebase everyone else used, flaws and all.

But again to be clear, like I've said elsewhere, these are all fixable problems and the Monero team is working on fixing them.

[rikkejohn]

This is just what he admits too.  I would consider it to be much more.
11 mins ago   rpietila   Somebody wanted to know this so here you go - my xmr trading since it first hit 470 (about 1.5days ago)
10 mins ago   rpietila   has made 1.6 btc profit before fees

Remember having said that. Right after the others were asking if I really don't have better things to do than spending 1.5 days glued to the keyboard to earn about €500. I needed to defend myself saying that if I did not, the Monero liquidity would be much less than it is now, and proceeded by saying that 35% of the bids above the recent bottom were actually mine, because nobody else had had time to fill his.

I have also had 25% of the bids in BTC China, and there we were talking about 50x bigger money.

Monero to me is currently nothing that I plan to support me financially. I support Monero, with providing support to the devs, liquidity to the markets, marketing, even technology.

But the enemies are trembling - Monero is like a battle line where the largest battleships of Bitcoin are taking their place, loaded and constantly loading with more coins, ready to unleash the financial privacy upon everyone who might be interested.

You're full of it, and as convincing as a Bridge Salesman in London.

But people fall for it ... so very sad

[bcmine]

isnt cryptonote a big coming thing?

[DieJohnny]

Love this thread.

I would love it if an honest trusted dev would assess the submitted code of the top 20 alt coins and give a baddass-dev score to each.

I want to invest in coins that are truly backed coders that understand crypto and can code the lights out. That is all I really care about.

[fluffypony]

Love this thread.

I would love it if an honest trusted dev would assess the submitted code of the top 20 alt coins and give a baddass-dev score to each.

I want to invest in coins that are truly backed coders that understand crypto and can code the lights out. That is all I really care about.

Then maybe you need to start paying more attention to the Monero core team, of which I am a member, rather than reading silly threads filled with FUD where I've already decimated OPs comments, demonstrating that BCN took code from Monero and merged it without attribution.

You'd do well, too, to look at some of our other projects: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=768499.0;all

[Spoetnik]

what is to unveil ? it's rather obvious.. 

[Hexah]

what is to unveil ? it's rather obvious.. 

+1

Monero is a scam : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qEi5fQcVak

[GreekBitcoin]

what is to unveil ? it's rather obvious.. 

+1

Monero is a scam : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qEi5fQcVak

Yeah, actually it says that Bytecoin is a sure scam and that monero community took over the development from the same scammers that created bitmonero. And that there are allegations that although monero seems good there isnt as big community as it is showing. Dunno number 4 volume for days or weeks and anyway in top ten volumes like from forever looks like enough people are interested. But you can keep up attacking monero in order to have your premined scamcoin have 5-10btc volume.

I really cant understand you guys. Why premine bytecoin when it was solid tech. how greedy can someone be?

[GreekBitcoin]

I think this was more like a accident and they didn't know how to fix or what to do after that...like Darkcoin had...

Premining 82% by accident doesnt happen like every day, does it?

[Spoetnik]

see the more you look the more it stinks..

[fluffypony]

see the more you look the more it stinks..

The 82% premine they're talking about belongs to Bytecoin.

[robinwilliams]

see the more you look the more it stinks..

The 82% premine they're talking about belongs to Bytecoin.

it's kinda funny to watch the trolls say "Monero is a stupid clone ... should use the original" & then "Bytecoin scam 82% premine"

no way to win this one 

[Windoze]

see the more you look the more it stinks..

The 82% premine they're talking about belongs to Bytecoin.

it's kinda funny to watch the trolls say "Monero is a stupid clone ... should use the original" & then "Bytecoin scam 82% premine"

no way to win this one 

The worst part is that Monero is comprised of so many people who would have otherwise supported Bytecoin if not for the 82% premine. Mindfuck.

Will take months to sort out, likely to be resolved before Dec 6th IIRC

[robinwilliams]

Will take months to sort out, likely to be resolved before Dec 6th IIRC Smiley

what's dec 6th?