Gigamining / Teramining

[boonies4u]

If anyone has any remaining doubts about the claims process, I would like to invite you to read article 14 of the indictment against Liberty Reserve.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Liberty-Reserve-et-al.-Indictment.pdf

Here is a recording of the press conference the feds gave on the seizure of Liberty Reserve and the arrests of their operators/employees. They specifically state that the persecution of LR does not translate to other virtual currencies such as bitcoin, though they do stress the importance of KYC and AML policies and hope that those who need to enforce them do. They even speak of virtual currencies in a good light.

While I understand why Giga is doing what he's doing... I doubt he would be under fire for the same things LR was guilty of. They are entirely different businesses.

https://mega.co.nz/#!sx9hgSAZ!DUlH_2XgDREoxAud5-NomhfFP0ReCuTdOqP3SvaOSsQ

[jamesg]

Well, to be fair, you didn't operate a business that was anything like Liberty Reserve. Your business was solely based on bitcoin, and never touched fiat. Yes, I understand that many of your expenses were in fiat, but the contract with your customers, was all about bitcoin.

While it might seem that my business is based solely in bitcoin, I am still dealing with customer accounts and BTC payments to those accounts. In order to report your income from these payments, I have a duty (mandated by Federal Law) to know who you are and verify that the information is correct. Just because GLBSE didn't do it (or any other current exchange) doesn't mean it is not supposed to be done.

Regulatory compliance was one of the biggest topics at the Bitcoin 2013 conference for good reason. All of the BTC services you see around you today that are not complying, will probably not be around in a couple years. They will collapse to the same fate as Liberty Reserve.

I can somewhat understand that you took the "safe route" for yourself, but you need to understand that no matter how you look at it, you broke the contract and screwed a lot of people.

The safe route was taken for everyone involved. If I'm not around, who's going to keep paying out weekly mining earnings let alone keep the mining equipment running, fix the pool software, pay taxes for the business, give you your 1099 at the end of the year?

Having said that, I myself have made the claim. After careful consideration, I felt that was the best option for me, and the process turned out quick, free and painless. 

Thanks for claiming. I am glad I can continue to serve you.

I bought perpetual shares in Gigamining. Can I just stay with gigamining and not upgrade to the time limited Teramining?

You are free to not upgrade if you chose. I have setup my business systems to keep both contracts going.

Of course, you would be welcome to buy my shares back at last traded price on glbse to end the contract

As I have said many times before, I will follow Meni's lead on repurchases if and when he decides to offer a buy back.

[wizer]

I just filed my claim today. I expect that it will accepted as you said Thursday in an earlier post.

I was a bit of hassle but relatively painless, as my bank had a notary on the premises. I didnt want to jump through hoops as well but with current btc prices it would have been like throwing money away

[Holographic]

Thank you for the answers gigavps, I appreciate it. It did actually help me understand why you have handled this the way you have.

I also believe that regulatory compliance is important for the future of bitcoin, and I agree you did the right thing in moving forward. I just don't think there was anything stopping you from buying back the shares from those who didn't want to claim with all their personal details. I doubt anyone would come after you for returning customers funds, and THEN starting your fully regulated and compliant business for those willing. Oh well, water under the bridge I guess. It just turned out to be a bad investment for me, but that just happens sometimes.

To other gigaminers: Has anyone actually made a profit from investing in gigamining, or expect to make a profit through the free or paid upgrade paths? Unfortunately, no matter how I run the numbers, I just can't see that ever happening for me. I guess it all depends on your entry point. Mine was around 1 BTC per share.

On that note: When can we expect the upgrade option to become available again? And is there a thread/post outlining the actual numbers for the free and paid options?

[jamesg]

Thank you for the answers gigavps, I appreciate it. It did actually help me understand why you have handled this the way you have.

I'm glad I could help. Have things gone perfectly? NO. But I am still here and I am still doing everything I can to make sure things keep moving in the forward direction.

When can we expect the upgrade option to become available again?

When BFL has delivered enough of the 10.5Th/s on order to make room for more Teraminers.

And is there a thread/post outlining the actual numbers for the free and paid options?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75802.msg1454137#msg1454137

The upgrade price is .25 BTC per Gigamining contract instead of .29 BTC.

[boonies4u]

Assuming  1 Order = 1 Shipment... how many individual shipments are you expecting?

[EskimoBob]

... To other gigaminers: Has anyone actually made a profit from investing in gigamining, or expect to make a profit through the free or paid upgrade paths? Unfortunately, no matter how I run the numbers, I just can't see that ever happening for me. I guess it all depends on your entry point. Mine was around 1 BTC per share.

On that note: When can we expect the upgrade option to become available again? And is there a thread/post outlining the actual numbers for the free and paid options?

yes, but only one "investor" and this name is gigavps. He has made a huge assload of coin (and now is underwriting house loans to people etc https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75802.msg2233884#msg2233884 ). Rest of the investors have probably earned close to nothing.

I was one of those fools who thought it was good idea at the beginning Then,  I did my homework and realized - investing to btc mining via perpetual bonds  turds  is really stupid idea. (I call it mining turds, because they are almost like Floating Rate Notes (FRN) aka floaters - hence the name "turd" (see noun http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/floater).
For additional entertainment, see "Weekly loss of N% guaranteed - Enjoy perpetual loss with fixed Mh/s mining turds" from 2012 August.

Investing in a fixed rate mining turds is like betting against the rise of difficulty. LOL, I dumped all the mining turds I had.
I recall how Diablo was buying that crap up to become the largest miner and build his solar farm or what ever his delusion was at that time, while driving DMC price down down down. BTW, DMC managed to lose more in % than defaulted crap sold to BTC community by scammer Trendon Shavers and his sock puppets. (DMC -98%, scammer Trendon Shavers PT -75% or something)
 
BTW, gigamining price did actually relatively well (lost less than others) on GLBSE. Not because he managed to earn more coin to "turd" holders with rigs investors had bought for him, but because he kept spinning cleaver and slippery PR bull shit and this ugly upgrade scam. Guess what... here we are today.
 
This investment only makes sense to those, who truly believe BTC difficulty will start dropping or stand still after the BFL and other ASIC really hit the market.

Good luck and enjoy your ride to glory.

[smoothie]

When BFL has delivered enough of the 10.5Th/s on order to make room for more Teraminers.

And is there a thread/post outlining the actual numbers for the free and paid options?

Wow you ordered 10.5 TH/s from BFL? lol

[Psino]

Thank you for the answers gigavps, I appreciate it. It did actually help me understand why you have handled this the way you have.

I also believe that regulatory compliance is important for the future of bitcoin, and I agree you did the right thing in moving forward. I just don't think there was anything stopping you from buying back the shares from those who didn't want to claim with all their personal details. I doubt anyone would come after you for returning customers funds, and THEN starting your fully regulated and compliant business for those willing. Oh well, water under the bridge I guess. It just turned out to be a bad investment for me, but that just happens sometimes.

It's not water under the bridge to those of us who have had assets stolen from them. Gigavps and his lawyer(s) have hundreds of dollars worth of my bitcoins in their possession. I'm sure they have many thousands of dollars worth of others' bitcoins also.

Speaking of a buyback, does anyone know what the last traded price of Gigamining was on GLBSE? I have a feeling that a proper buyback, like gigavps was obligated to do for all of his associates before he violated the contract, would be worth more than the perpetual shares will ever accumulate. Perhaps it shouldn't be water under the bridge for you, either.

[Holographic]

Thank you for the answers gigavps, I appreciate it. It did actually help me understand why you have handled this the way you have.

I also believe that regulatory compliance is important for the future of bitcoin, and I agree you did the right thing in moving forward. I just don't think there was anything stopping you from buying back the shares from those who didn't want to claim with all their personal details. I doubt anyone would come after you for returning customers funds, and THEN starting your fully regulated and compliant business for those willing. Oh well, water under the bridge I guess. It just turned out to be a bad investment for me, but that just happens sometimes.

It's not water under the bridge to those of us who have had assets stolen from them. Gigavps and his lawyer(s) have hundreds of dollars worth of my bitcoins in their possession. I'm sure they have many thousands of dollars worth of others' bitcoins also.

Speaking of a buyback, does anyone know what the last traded price of Gigamining was on GLBSE? I have a feeling that a proper buyback, like gigavps was obligated to do for all of his associates before he violated the contract, would be worth more than the perpetual shares will ever accumulate. Perhaps it shouldn't be water under the bridge for you, either.

I can only speak for myself of course, and thus I meant it was water under the bridge for me. I apologize if it sounded like I was downplaying the issue for those unable or unwilling to claim.

If such a buyback ever became an option, I would definitely pounce on it, but I believe chances are very slim judging from Gigavps' past actions.

This is the way I see it: At some point we all have to make a decision regarding cases like this. We need to decide if we want to do something about it, and then act on that decision. One can either pursue legal action, make the claim, and/or let it become water under the bridge, like I have. Dwelling on it, without taking any action, will only hurt yourself and cause unnecessary stress and agitation. Don't get me wrong, I don't really approve of how this has been handled, but after saying my piece earlier in this thread, I was done with that and decided to claim. If that doesn't work for you, I suggest you vent a bit in this thread; you know... say what you really mean! Then make a decision on how to proceed and try to put it behind you. Bitcoin is truly a wild ride, so I try to enjoy it, instead of letting it get me down.

[Otoh]

Re the last price that GM traded for on GLBSE, I bought 2 + 28 bonds on 2012 09 27 & 2012 10 02 both lots @ 0.451 BTC [that was probably after adding on the GLBSE fee], so the price was quite stable there for around the last week & GLBSE closed down on 2012 10 02 I believe so this is most likely the last traded price or very close to it as like being the last week's average price also I expect.

Previous to this I bought 21 bonds @ 1.205 BTC on 2012 07 14 & 979 @ 1.3635 BTC on 2012 07 10 when the upgrade to TM may have been announced.

The other 500 I bought between 2012 05 18 & 2012 06 08 @ 1.46 BTC to 1.44 BTC.

[Newar]

Re the last price that GM traded for on GLBSE, I bought 2 + 28 bonds on 2012 09 27 & 2012 10 02 both lots @ 0.451 BTC [that was probably after adding on the GLBSE fee], so the price was quite stable there for around the last week & GLBSE closed down on 2012 10 02 I believe so this is most likely the last traded price or very close to it as like being the last week's average price also I expect.

Previous to this I bought 21 bonds @ 1.205 BTC on 2012 07 14 & 979 @ 1.3635 BTC on 2012 07 10 when the upgrade to TM may have been announced.

The other 500 I bought between 2012 05 18 & 2012 06 08 @ 1.46 BTC to 1.44 BTC.

stochastic's raw data file has this as the last Gigamining entry:

Code:

i	     timestamp    	symbol	volume	price
66515	1349362083	GIGAMINING	3	56515000

[occulta]

TERAMINING upgrades are 0.25BTC for 135mh/s, chips that produce twice this hashrate are selling for 1/5th of this price. I know they aren't assembled and ready to start hashing, but this price is too much. After all the reasons for doing things by the law, this is one thing that isn't law and giga can redeem himself with by giving something back to the investors who have put so much in

[burger]

TERAMINING upgrades are 0.25BTC for 135mh/s, chips that produce twice this hashrate are selling for 1/5th of this price. I know they aren't assembled and ready to start hashing, but this price is too much. After all the reasons for doing things by the law, this is one thing that isn't law and giga can redeem himself with by giving something back to the investors who have put so much in

If I calculated correctly then one BFL 5 GH/s bitcoin miner will cost about 0.062 BTC for 135MH/s. Thats 4 times better price for the BFL miner than the Teramining upgrade.

[EskimoBob]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75802.msg1454137#msg1454137

Would you please James disclose that information to your investors before the claim process somehow?

Hi Audriux9,

Code:

                GIGAMINING   TERAMINING
Total Gh/s      200Gh        5,400Gh
Mh/s per bond   5Mh/s        9Mh/s
Total bonds     40,000       600,000

Free Upgrade Path
I will offer a 1:4 exchange of Gigamining for Teramining that costs nothing to upgrade. An example would be if you have 400 Gigamining and don’t want to pay to upgrade, you can swap them 1:4 for Teramining. This would represent a 7.2x increase in the bonds hashing power at no additional cost. So in this case, the 400 Gigamining bonds (2Gh) would be upgraded to 1,600 Teramining bonds (14.4Gh).

Paid Upgrade Path
I will also offer a 1:15 exchange of Gigamining bonds for Teramining bonds. So, if you have 400 Gigamining bonds (2Gh) and pay the upgrade fee, you will receive 6,000 Teramining bonds (54Gh) in return. The fee to upgrade will be .29 BTC per Gigamining bond. So, the upgrade fee on 400 Gigamining bonds would be 116 BTC.

Contract Outline

• New contract is 9Mh/s.
• There is no representation made for the expected output of the contract. So if the hashing power makes more than 100%, you get more than 100%. That said, VPS has systems in place to make sure of 99% up-time including our own, fully redundant pool infrastructure.
• Contract lasts for 6 moths from the start date for each individual.
• Contract will start within one week of the equipment arriving and being setup.
• Any upgrade returns all rights of current Gigamining contract including payments
• Paid upgrades must be paid in full before the contract can begin.
• Purchase is non-refundable.
• Contract also includes an NDA so Teraminers can be free to ask questions and get answers.

You can view the entire contract here -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/15g0mjR1VQMr2866CDYI97nyyWA_UJZpX0uP8vrsDBzI/edit

Best,
James

 Did the equipment prices jump 20x or are you offering 20x more Mh/s per "turd" now?
Last Mai/june (2012), when this "tera" scam started, BTC traded around 5-6 USD and upgrade fee was 0.25 BTC. Now we are at 120 USD and upgrade fee is still 0.25 BTC.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Did the equipment prices jump 20x or are you offering 20x more Mh/s per "turd" now?
Last Mai/june (2012), when this "tera" scam started, BTC traded around 5-6 USD and upgrade fee was 0.25 BTC. Now we are at 120 USD and upgrade fee is still 0.25 BTC.

This is the magical scam that never ends.
That's quite an accomplishment.

[jamesg]

The price has not changed because the opportunity costs have not changed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

It's great that there is lively debate about the price, but it is not changing for the paid upgrade.

There is also a free upgrade offered for those who do not like their other options.

If you want to stick with Gigamining, you are more than welcome to do so.

[johnlu]

gigavps, people who upgraded, like me, are being affected. Before upgrading I was receiving ~0.02BTC, after that I received even less than 0.001BTC this is a shame. I can't understand why you let us to take a path if you know that we are going to lose more and more. I hope you have an explanation for this.

[BurtW]

gigavps, people who upgraded, like me, are being affected. Before upgrading I was receiving ~0.02BTC, after that I received even less than 0.001BTC this is a shame. I can't understand why you let us to take a path if you know that we are going to lose more and more. I hope you have an explanation for this.

This is the nature of the gamble you/we took.  If we had gotten our mining equipment on time as promised then we would have made a boatload of BTC.  Then as time went on we would have made less and less.

Since (most of) the equipment has not been delivered we will get just a trickle of BTC to start.  Then as we get more equipment we should get more and more BTC up to a peak.  Then we will gradually get less as time goes on.

It just did not work out as planned.

[smaynard]

It just did not work out as planned.

+1