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Author Topic: Gigamining / Teramining  (Read 201639 times)
boonies4u
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January 18, 2013, 05:08:22 AM
 #1781

So then what happens to those that choose to not upgrade?  You will obviously retain all the mining hardware.. do those guys just keep getting hashing power until you decide to turn off the rigs?  This just looks like you upgraded thousands of dollars worth of hardware for just 6 months of hashing... for us that is ... you obviously will keep the rigs running and be mining BTC for as long as it is still profitable for you.  Bravo on making out like a bandit on the hardware ... but that is it... no more anything? 

Naelr

Hi Naelr,

I have been saying for months now that without a buyback clause, there is no way to offer Teramining as a perpetual agreement. I have never been willing to offer any ownership in either equipment or company, this has not changed.

I am offering both a free and paid upgrade path for those who want ASIC. I have also lowered the upgrade price.

Please tell me what you think Teramining should be and we can discuss it.

Best,
James

That didn't answer his question. What happens to people who choose not to upgrade?
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jamesg
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January 18, 2013, 11:11:31 AM
 #1782

So then what happens to those that choose to not upgrade?

I am not sure why anyone would not chose to upgrade. When ASICs arrive, a single 5Mh/s unit will output many multiples less than it does now.

I quoted Meni before about this. His idea was:

I will continue paying coupons of 1MH/s per bond for a while. When the ELE (extrapolated lifetime earnings with current difficulty) was about 1 BTC the bond traded around 0.4 BTC (40% of the ELE), so when I eventually do a buyback (likely after ASICs have stabilized) I think a fair price will be 50% of the ELE at that time (this is subject to change).

I am willing to do the same.
Lucidize
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January 18, 2013, 04:24:50 PM
 #1783

Can anyone offer advice to a UK resident wishing to begin the claims process?

• How to get a document notarized (and costs?)

• Instead of a social security number do we provide NI number?

• Is it legal for to copy UK ID documents to send to another country?


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January 18, 2013, 04:30:49 PM
 #1784

Can anyone offer advice to a UK resident wishing to begin the claims process?

Hi Lucidize,

There are other UK residents who have started and completed the claims process without issue.

Please email Quentin: qpage at mylawyr dot com

Best,
James
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January 18, 2013, 05:43:33 PM
 #1785

I claimed payment on Dezember 26, with a copy to you James. I did not get an answer from you, nor your lawyer.
My Gouvernment (Germany) say it is illegal to copy or scan my ID.
Also, as I made clear before, all the things you guys ask would cost me estimately 150€. I am not even sure if I get this much as a return.
Its ridiculous, your so called lawyer doesnt even reply, and if he does, it's just the standard text from your website.
Is this the way you treat people that trusted you with their money?
I am really dissapointed and cant believe there are people still investing in your operations.
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January 18, 2013, 10:18:43 PM
 #1786

I claimed payment on Dezember 26, with a copy to you James. I did not get an answer from you, nor your lawyer.
My Gouvernment (Germany) say it is illegal to copy or scan my ID.
Also, as I made clear before, all the things you guys ask would cost me estimately 150€. I am not even sure if I get this much as a return.
Its ridiculous, your so called lawyer doesnt even reply, and if he does, it's just the standard text from your website.
Is this the way you treat people that trusted you with their money?
I am really dissapointed and cant believe there are people still investing in your operations.

Hi bixcoin,

I apologize for Quentin not responding. There were technical errors on his end where email when to spam unintentionally. Please re-forward your request.

Best,
James
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January 18, 2013, 11:25:48 PM
 #1787

Can anyone offer advice to a UK resident wishing to begin the claims process?

• How to get a document notarized (and costs?)

• Instead of a social security number do we provide NI number?

• Is it legal for to copy UK ID documents to send to another country?



You can get documents notarised at most Solicitors (their company name will usually say "Solicitor and Notary public" or similar).  There's a fixed fee for it (varies per So;icitor) - usually in the £25 - £75 range.  There are other people besides SOlicitors who can notarise - but SOlicitors are liekly to be the most accesible ones for you.  Check for any extras they charge before getting it done - you don't want to pay them £1 per sheet for photocopies for example.  You'll need to take along proof of identity (passport is ideal) and the originals of any ID documents being copied/sent (they MAY insist on photocopying the documents themselves).  You'll then swear under oath that the information contained in the affidavit is correct.

You then need to get the documents apostilled (which means a central body confirms that the notarisation is valid).  This has to be done by post with the Legalisation Office of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (you used to be able to get it done in person at Milton Keynes but that option is longer available).  Think the cost of apostille is £35 per document from memory.  Just google for "apostille UK" and I'm sure you'll find the details for that.

It's perfectly legal to copy documents such as passports.  They are explicitly listed as things which can be apostilled - and apostille is pretty much only used when sending documents overseas.  I have no idea if other countries have laws against sending copies of passports - but it's fine from the UK.

My objection to this procedure has always been that the costs are disproportionate for smaller investors and that they're being passed on to investors when the mistake was Giga's.  There's nothing illegal (in the UK) about what is being requested - and were disclosure of the requirement for such documentation made in advance of accepting funds it would be perfectly reasonable.

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January 18, 2013, 11:47:57 PM
 #1788

There's nothing illegal (in the UK) about what is being requested - and were disclosure of the requirement for such documentation made in advance of accepting funds it would be perfectly reasonable.



You mean nothing besides the perjured document (the claim form) you file.
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January 19, 2013, 12:46:16 AM
 #1789

So then what happens to those that choose to not upgrade?  You will obviously retain all the mining hardware.. do those guys just keep getting hashing power until you decide to turn off the rigs?  This just looks like you upgraded thousands of dollars worth of hardware for just 6 months of hashing... for us that is ... you obviously will keep the rigs running and be mining BTC for as long as it is still profitable for you.  Bravo on making out like a bandit on the hardware ... but that is it... no more anything? 

Naelr

Hi Naelr,

I have been saying for months now that without a buyback clause, there is no way to offer Teramining as a perpetual agreement. I have never been willing to offer any ownership in either equipment or company, this has not changed.

I am offering both a free and paid upgrade path for those who want ASIC. I have also lowered the upgrade price.

Please tell me what you think Teramining should be and we can discuss it.

Best,
James

First off I never expected you to offer any ownership in the equipment or the company I simply congratulated you on a well thought out well timed way to get your hands on some very expensive very profitable equipment and virtual little to no cost to you on the purchase of said equipment.  It is obvious that your bond holders paid for most of it and the hashing power that they have/will have will pay for the rest not to mention those that will not (and some will not) try to continue on with giga/teramining.  I myself struggled with this decision having been one who had his identity stolen and fought will bill collectors and credit score agencies for 2 years to get my credit back to where it should be.  I didn't want to give my information to anyone.

I noticed the lowered price again kodos for trying to be good to the community that was good to you.  This has been a long hard road and choosing the road you took we will just have to live with it to get what we have back out. 

OK so as to what Teramining should be... why can't you re-evaluate in 6 months and perhaps offer (if your projections hold) continued hashing for something like I don't know just pulling numbers out my ass because no one can say what BTC will be worth in 6 months... something like 0.1 BTC per/share per/month or something .. we pay you to keep going for another month or something of that nature... you can obviously take BTC for the upgrade to Teramining so why not (if still profitable for you and us) you take more in 6 or 8 months whenever you decide the initial contract will end?  Granted something like this might require you to do lots more paperwork but if still profitable?  Just throwing a thought out there.

Naelr

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Lucidize
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January 19, 2013, 02:04:22 PM
 #1790

Can anyone offer advice to a UK resident wishing to begin the claims process?

• How to get a document notarized (and costs?)

• Instead of a social security number do we provide NI number?

• Is it legal for to copy UK ID documents to send to another country?



You can get documents notarised at most Solicitors (their company name will usually say "Solicitor and Notary public" or similar).  There's a fixed fee for it (varies per So;icitor) - usually in the £25 - £75 range.  There are other people besides SOlicitors who can notarise - but SOlicitors are liekly to be the most accesible ones for you.  Check for any extras they charge before getting it done - you don't want to pay them £1 per sheet for photocopies for example.  You'll need to take along proof of identity (passport is ideal) and the originals of any ID documents being copied/sent (they MAY insist on photocopying the documents themselves).  You'll then swear under oath that the information contained in the affidavit is correct.

You then need to get the documents apostilled (which means a central body confirms that the notarisation is valid).  This has to be done by post with the Legalisation Office of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (you used to be able to get it done in person at Milton Keynes but that option is longer available).  Think the cost of apostille is £35 per document from memory.  Just google for "apostille UK" and I'm sure you'll find the details for that.

It's perfectly legal to copy documents such as passports.  They are explicitly listed as things which can be apostilled - and apostille is pretty much only used when sending documents overseas.  I have no idea if other countries have laws against sending copies of passports - but it's fine from the UK.

My objection to this procedure has always been that the costs are disproportionate for smaller investors and that they're being passed on to investors when the mistake was Giga's.  There's nothing illegal (in the UK) about what is being requested - and were disclosure of the requirement for such documentation made in advance of accepting funds it would be perfectly reasonable.



Thanks you for all of this information, it's the first time someone has taken the time to explain.

I don't know how the hell I'm gonna get all of that done, and the costs involved is just ridiculous. I'm really not a happy bunny.

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January 19, 2013, 11:12:27 PM
 #1791

Can anyone offer advice to a UK resident wishing to begin the claims process?

• How to get a document notarized (and costs?)

• Instead of a social security number do we provide NI number?

• Is it legal for to copy UK ID documents to send to another country?



You can get documents notarised at most Solicitors (their company name will usually say "Solicitor and Notary public" or similar).  There's a fixed fee for it (varies per So;icitor) - usually in the £25 - £75 range.  There are other people besides SOlicitors who can notarise - but SOlicitors are liekly to be the most accesible ones for you.  Check for any extras they charge before getting it done - you don't want to pay them £1 per sheet for photocopies for example.  You'll need to take along proof of identity (passport is ideal) and the originals of any ID documents being copied/sent (they MAY insist on photocopying the documents themselves).  You'll then swear under oath that the information contained in the affidavit is correct.

You then need to get the documents apostilled (which means a central body confirms that the notarisation is valid).  This has to be done by post with the Legalisation Office of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (you used to be able to get it done in person at Milton Keynes but that option is longer available).  Think the cost of apostille is £35 per document from memory.  Just google for "apostille UK" and I'm sure you'll find the details for that.

It's perfectly legal to copy documents such as passports.  They are explicitly listed as things which can be apostilled - and apostille is pretty much only used when sending documents overseas.  I have no idea if other countries have laws against sending copies of passports - but it's fine from the UK.

My objection to this procedure has always been that the costs are disproportionate for smaller investors and that they're being passed on to investors when the mistake was Giga's.  There's nothing illegal (in the UK) about what is being requested - and were disclosure of the requirement for such documentation made in advance of accepting funds it would be perfectly reasonable.



Thanks you for all of this information, it's the first time someone has taken the time to explain.

I don't know how the hell I'm gonna get all of that done, and the costs involved is just ridiculous. I'm really not a happy bunny.

and this is exactly why there needs to be a revolt against this unfair behaviour from Giga

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January 19, 2013, 11:24:06 PM
 #1792

Can anyone offer advice to a UK resident wishing to begin the claims process?

• How to get a document notarized (and costs?)

• Instead of a social security number do we provide NI number?

• Is it legal for to copy UK ID documents to send to another country?



You can get documents notarised at most Solicitors (their company name will usually say "Solicitor and Notary public" or similar).  There's a fixed fee for it (varies per So;icitor) - usually in the £25 - £75 range.  There are other people besides SOlicitors who can notarise - but SOlicitors are liekly to be the most accesible ones for you.  Check for any extras they charge before getting it done - you don't want to pay them £1 per sheet for photocopies for example.  You'll need to take along proof of identity (passport is ideal) and the originals of any ID documents being copied/sent (they MAY insist on photocopying the documents themselves).  You'll then swear under oath that the information contained in the affidavit is correct.

You then need to get the documents apostilled (which means a central body confirms that the notarisation is valid).  This has to be done by post with the Legalisation Office of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (you used to be able to get it done in person at Milton Keynes but that option is longer available).  Think the cost of apostille is £35 per document from memory.  Just google for "apostille UK" and I'm sure you'll find the details for that.

It's perfectly legal to copy documents such as passports.  They are explicitly listed as things which can be apostilled - and apostille is pretty much only used when sending documents overseas.  I have no idea if other countries have laws against sending copies of passports - but it's fine from the UK.

My objection to this procedure has always been that the costs are disproportionate for smaller investors and that they're being passed on to investors when the mistake was Giga's.  There's nothing illegal (in the UK) about what is being requested - and were disclosure of the requirement for such documentation made in advance of accepting funds it would be perfectly reasonable.



Thanks you for all of this information, it's the first time someone has taken the time to explain.

I don't know how the hell I'm gonna get all of that done, and the costs involved is just ridiculous. I'm really not a happy bunny.

and this is exactly why there needs to be a revolt against this unfair behaviour from Giga

At this point in time your only choice in the matter is with or without lube.
From day one this whole scheme was to seperate people from their money and the operator ends up with the hardware.
And it is working too.

I do not know of a single person who actually made money from this fiasco. Did the earliest adopters make anything? Did anyone who bought bonds for next to nothing actually make money? Not from what i have seen. Terramining looks to be a way for users to have a slim chance to possibly break even if they dont give him extra money. I doubt it tho.
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January 21, 2013, 05:36:30 AM
 #1793

Hi gigavps
Thank you for the reply. What do you think is there a chance that for you to extend the contract for 12 months? Please understand me well I must pay around 4-5 BTC to get my ~20 gigamining bonds. Tomorrow will ask again for a cheaper service but still it's a bit unfair for non US citizens.

Regards
2GOOD

Hi 2GOOD,

While I definitely understand your concern regarding creating legal documents, there is really no other way around this. I am still considering extending the contract, but have not made a decision.

Best,
James

Is it possible for someone else to claim others bonds? For example if 2GOOD trusts me to claim his bonds and I'll write his on my legal document?

jamesg
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January 21, 2013, 11:11:59 AM
 #1794

Is it possible for someone else to claim others bonds? For example if 2GOOD trusts me to claim his bonds and I'll write his on my legal document?

Hi burger,

It is not possible.

Best,
James
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January 21, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
 #1795

Is it possible for someone else to claim others bonds? For example if 2GOOD trusts me to claim his bonds and I'll write his on my legal document?

Hi burger,

It is not possible.

Best,
James

I was going to ask the same... anyway I just got a better Idea... is it possible to give my shares to a very close friend of mine who lives in the US to claim the shares instead of me. AFAIK for the US citizens it costs something like 10-15$

In the end giga put us all in a very bad situation...

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January 21, 2013, 03:12:13 PM
 #1796

What would the estimated value of a Gigamining share be?
Gigavps is selling 11 shares of Teramining for .25BTC, so if we use .023 as the value of one Teramining share that would put the value of Gigamining at 0.091BTC if it's converted to Teramining. Add to that say a little under 0.13BTC in held dividends per share that have yet to be paid, and the apparent value of a Gigamining share is about 0.22BTC. If you want, round it up to 0.25 if you believe the option to do the paid upgrade to Teramining adds value.

So, at present time each Gigamining share is worth about US$4. If you have enough shares that you're past the break even point with respect to your costs, you might as well go through the process.
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January 21, 2013, 03:21:16 PM
 #1797

Is it possible for someone else to claim others bonds? For example if 2GOOD trusts me to claim his bonds and I'll write his on my legal document?

Hi burger,

It is not possible.

Best,
James

I was going to ask the same... anyway I just got a better Idea... is it possible to give my shares to a very close friend of mine who lives in the US to claim the shares instead of me. AFAIK for the US citizens it costs something like 10-15$

In the end giga put us all in a very bad situation...
Most banks around here do the notary thing for free (Colorado, US).

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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January 21, 2013, 09:15:58 PM
 #1798

Most banks around here do the notary thing for free (Colorado, US).

I know USBank offers free notary for customers, I'm sure others do as well.
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January 22, 2013, 12:39:09 AM
 #1799

At this point in time your only choice in the matter is with or without lube.
From day one this whole scheme was to seperate people from their money and the operator ends up with the hardware.
And it is working too.

I do not know of a single person who actually made money from this fiasco. Did the earliest adopters make anything? Did anyone who bought bonds for next to nothing actually make money? Not from what i have seen. Terramining looks to be a way for users to have a slim chance to possibly break even if they dont give him extra money. I doubt it tho.

So, if one bought back in May or June and kept the BTC returns and sold them off in the Fall - one actually did pretty well...
Another great scenario would have been to buy when BTC was close to $6 then sell off half your shares when BTC hit $12...
I was lucky enough to do both.  I'm sure others did very similarly, so to say not a single person made money is not correct.
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January 22, 2013, 12:44:22 AM
 #1800

At this point in time your only choice in the matter is with or without lube.
From day one this whole scheme was to seperate people from their money and the operator ends up with the hardware.
And it is working too.

I do not know of a single person who actually made money from this fiasco. Did the earliest adopters make anything? Did anyone who bought bonds for next to nothing actually make money? Not from what i have seen. Terramining looks to be a way for users to have a slim chance to possibly break even if they dont give him extra money. I doubt it tho.

So, if one bought back in May or June and kept the BTC returns and sold them off in the Fall - one actually did pretty well...
Another great scenario would have been to buy when BTC was close to $6 then sell off half your shares when BTC hit $12...
I was lucky enough to do both.  I'm sure others did very similarly, so to say not a single person made money is not correct.

Just buy and hold btc so you dont have to deal with gigavps bullshit. "Investing" btc in anything related to USD is a quick way to the poorhouse.

Also For people who go through the process of getting notarised James should refund the cost since its his mistake that he didnt do this in the first place. He should be the one to be punished not the "investors"

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