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Author Topic: Gigamining / Teramining  (Read 201540 times)
SAC
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November 25, 2012, 11:30:00 PM
 #1361

I completely understand the desire to get everything legal but if you care at all, you start by closing out your existing contracts on their original terms, not by defaulting.

You cannot do anything legal by starting with a deception as its basis. It don't work that way you can only get legal relief from having stated the facts you know to be true in the proceeding sought. Any other course of action will be declared null and void once the deception is discovered and proved in a court of law.
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November 25, 2012, 11:47:38 PM
 #1362

I completely understand the desire to get everything legal but if you care at all, you start by closing out your existing contracts on their original terms, not by defaulting.

You cannot do anything legal by starting with a deception as its basis. It don't work that way you can only get legal relief from having stated the facts you know to be true in the proceeding sought. Any other course of action will be declared null and void once the deception is discovered and proved in a court of law.

I'm confused.  What deception are you referring to?  I don't think I mentioned any deception?


I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my account, then a week later the price went up and they canceled the buy and closed my account.  You've been warned.  Use a different exchange.
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November 26, 2012, 12:17:32 AM
 #1363

I completely understand the desire to get everything legal but if you care at all, you start by closing out your existing contracts on their original terms, not by defaulting.

You cannot do anything legal by starting with a deception as its basis. It don't work that way you can only get legal relief from having stated the facts you know to be true in the proceeding sought. Any other course of action will be declared null and void once the deception is discovered and proved in a court of law.

I'm confused.  What deception are you referring to?  I don't think I mentioned any deception?



The one he is trying to pull namely portraying this venture as a leased equipment type of agreement/deal instead of mining bond it was. If this was bankruptcy we were dealing with and he tried to do that and his lawyer knowingly went along with this they both be in jail or on their way there. As it stands, now I have notified the lawyer of this claims process being a lie in an attempt to deceive people/the legal system, from this point on he is on the hook for any legal ramifications continuing on this path will bring.
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November 26, 2012, 12:18:29 AM
 #1364

Oh, and a last point:
Currently there's no way to see which Bitcoin address one actually has submitted to GLBSE, so quite a few people might have problems even knowing it...
I believe that if you got a BTC refund from GLBSE then it is the address that GLBSE used to send you the refund.  So assuming you got a refund of any ammount you should be able to locate the address.

However, if you did not get a refund then you might have an issue.
Well, I've yet to receive any communication or BTC from GLBSE itself. The mail from giga's lawyer was actually the first proof that my information that I submitted was actually going somewhere after ~2 months of waiting.

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Shadow383
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November 26, 2012, 12:24:55 AM
 #1365

Could he or could he not just buy back the shares as per the original agreement?
I mean from a legal standpoint...
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November 26, 2012, 12:31:22 AM
 #1366

One question that might be too early to ask:

Do you have the intent to allow people to sell/trade their shares on a private basis or on a platform you provide for that purpose after everything is sorted out, if legal counsel says it would be ok?

Owning shares is ok. Trading them is where the shit hits the fan.

I don't know Giga's financial situation, but he could probably avoid a lot of the calamity if he were to buy out anyone that wants out per the closest he could get to the terms in the original contract.  What was the 5d avg when GLBSE shut down?  This information should be easy to access via the CSV that other community members created of the GLBSE trade feed on twitter.

After he's bought out anyone that wants out then he can go about reshaping a new contract with anyone still interested in sticking around.

Swapping out terms, conditions, contractual obligations, etc, after the sale and without the permission of the bond holder is called a default.  Recommend reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_(finance)  (specifically, the first few sentences, and the section on "strategic default".)

I don't have any Giga shares, but the precedent he's setting here worries me.  I completely understand the desire to get everything legal but if you care at all, you start by closing out your existing contracts on their original terms, not by defaulting.

Cheers.


The fairest thing to do is use the 5 day average before glbse shut down. Remember Matthew N Wright got a scammer tag for weasling out of a bet by re interpreting the wording, as giga is doing by re interpreting his bond as an equipment lease.



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November 26, 2012, 12:32:27 AM
 #1367

Could he or could he not just buy back the shares as per the original agreement?
I mean from a legal standpoint...

It would not be illegal for him to buy back his bonds.

He may not have the cash on hand to do so.  Which is why I suggested he give people the option of a buyback or continuing under new contract.




I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my account, then a week later the price went up and they canceled the buy and closed my account.  You've been warned.  Use a different exchange.
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November 26, 2012, 12:40:29 AM
 #1368

Could he or could he not just buy back the shares as per the original agreement?
I mean from a legal standpoint...

the main problem right now is he doesn't know who to "buy back" from... that's what he's trying to ascertain.

And be able to say he used reasonable methods to figure it out.

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November 26, 2012, 12:45:59 AM
 #1369

Could he or could he not just buy back the shares as per the original agreement?
I mean from a legal standpoint...

The entire venture has no legal legs to stand on, you must be licensed to sell securities in most countries on this planet. This is why that claims document is worded the way it is. Not that it does him any good even if all the other people wish to break the law and lie on a legal document to get their money/protect his ass there is more than enough still left over for people to find to show the true nature of this deal. In short he is fucked if the law goes after him and more than likely fucked by choosing this process to try to get from under that. I know I will be filing the complaints if this BS he is on continues.
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November 26, 2012, 01:20:18 AM
 #1370

Could he or could he not just buy back the shares as per the original agreement?
I mean from a legal standpoint...

the main problem right now is he doesn't know who to "buy back" from... that's what he's trying to ascertain.

And be able to say he used reasonable methods to figure it out.

Defaulting on the bond + costing bondholders serious time & cash to claim their bonds != reasonable.

I am hoping that he does come up with a reasonable method though, as many other asset issuers are going to look to him as an example.



I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my account, then a week later the price went up and they canceled the buy and closed my account.  You've been warned.  Use a different exchange.
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November 26, 2012, 07:48:00 AM
 #1371

Could he or could he not just buy back the shares as per the original agreement?
I mean from a legal standpoint...

the main problem right now is he doesn't know who to "buy back" from... that's what he's trying to ascertain.

And be able to say he used reasonable methods to figure it out.

Defaulting on the bond + costing bondholders serious time & cash to claim their bonds != reasonable.

I am hoping that he does come up with a reasonable method though, as many other asset issuers are going to look to him as an example.


Default? He is in default already by his own contract. Regardless, debt (to bondholders) has to be paid out before anyone else gets anything! Even his scumbag lawyer has to wait.
He can not just rise his hands, blink hes beady eyes and say "oops, sorry, you guys can go and f... yourself, I default" and prance to the sunset with all the hardware you guys bought for him. 
He has to sell the rigs etc, return the coin and all the missing dividends (he make money every day with those rigs!) to bond holders and then he can call it what ever he wants.
Or he can shell out his own coin and buy back all the bonds + divs.

Next time you guys call someone "respected member of the community", because he has a assload of coin or big rigs for mining... THINK!
PS! Never forget the classics - "Behind every great fortune there is a great crime"

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
conspirosphere.tk
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November 26, 2012, 10:00:23 AM
 #1372

Can I suggest that anyone determined to take action instead of just whining here give their answer to this thread?

Organizing legal actions against GLBSE assets issuers who try to not pay back
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127657.0

If you give a pass to Giga on this, expect that many other issuers will follow. They just have to cut and paste his lawyer's inventions.

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November 26, 2012, 06:08:44 PM
 #1373

One question that might be too early to ask:

Do you have the intent to allow people to sell/trade their shares on a private basis or on a platform you provide for that purpose after everything is sorted out, if legal counsel says it would be ok?

Owning shares is ok. Trading them is where the shit hits the fan.

I don't know Giga's financial situation, but he could probably avoid a lot of the calamity if he were to buy out anyone that wants out per the closest he could get to the terms in the original contract.  What was the 5d avg when GLBSE shut down?  This information should be easy to access via the CSV that other community members created of the GLBSE trade feed on twitter.

After he's bought out anyone that wants out then he can go about reshaping a new contract with anyone still interested in sticking around.

Swapping out terms, conditions, contractual obligations, etc, after the sale and without the permission of the bond holder is called a default.  Recommend reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_(finance)  (specifically, the first few sentences, and the section on "strategic default".)

I don't have any Giga shares, but the precedent he's setting here worries me.  I completely understand the desire to get everything legal but if you care at all, you start by closing out your existing contracts on their original terms, not by defaulting.

Cheers.


The fairest thing to do is use the 5 day average before glbse shut down. Remember Matthew N Wright got a scammer tag for weasling out of a bet by re interpreting the wording, as giga is doing by re interpreting his bond as an equipment lease.




5 day average before glcrapbse shutdown? How would that be fair when everyone was basically in panic mode due to the
rumors going around and the price was going down?

If he wants to own the hardware outright... pay out the issue price. Anything else is BS.
If that does not work sell all the hardware and take the funds to buy the shares/bonds back at the highest price possible per.
He has defaulted on the contract and ruined the shares in the business for future trading.
Time to clean up and make people whole.
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November 26, 2012, 06:36:23 PM
 #1374

Next time you guys call someone "respected member of the community", because he has a assload of coin or big rigs for mining... THINK!
PS! Never forget the classics - "Behind every great fortune there is a great crime"

Your rendition of class warfare is woefully out of place. Bitcoin is about those with assloads of coin, big rigs etc, not about the self-entitled hordes of the ramen-fed. If you were looking for the social media aspect try Facebook.

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szuetam
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November 27, 2012, 11:15:17 AM
 #1375

Huh, your are saying it is so high cost to get this:

An affidavit attesting to the beneficial assignment of the agreement, which has been notarized (US residents/corporations) or local equivalent bearing the apostille of the competent jurisdiction. Copies of an acceptable affidavit can be obtained upon request from the law offices.

What the cost is in different countries?
I have checked how much it will cost me and it is less than 2USD per page, and it will take 5 to 10 minutes. So I'll try to do it with one page. And it is perfectly reasonable to spend this to get back my 20 shares.

So in Poland it is 2USD. Could you name prices in other countries?
Just out of my curiosity.
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November 27, 2012, 12:20:26 PM
 #1376

In Italy getting any document authenticated by the city council administration (which is the cheapest and commonest way) costs 15 euros, *if the document is in italian*. Official translations require serious money. Then I would need a lawyer specialized in anglo contracts and such to understand and write whatever shit Giga asks , and for that an arm and a leg would not be enough.
Fugged about it. I prefer to donate all my assets to someone who sends Giga in jail.

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November 27, 2012, 02:40:00 PM
 #1377

In Italy getting any document authenticated by the city council administration (which is the cheapest and commonest way) costs 15 euros, *if the document is in italian*. Official translations require serious money. Then I would need a lawyer specialized in anglo contracts and such to understand and write whatever shit Giga asks , and for that an arm and a leg would not be enough.
Fugged about it. I prefer to donate all my assets to someone who sends Giga in jail.

If Giga goes to jail getting anything out of those assets would be difficult. Sounds like a conflict of interest.
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November 27, 2012, 02:52:33 PM
 #1378

In Italy getting any document authenticated by the city council administration (which is the cheapest and commonest way) costs 15 euros, *if the document is in italian*. Official translations require serious money. Then I would need a lawyer specialized in anglo contracts and such to understand and write whatever shit Giga asks , and for that an arm and a leg would not be enough.
Fugged about it. I prefer to donate all my assets to someone who sends Giga in jail.

If Giga goes to jail getting anything out of those assets would be difficult. Sounds like a conflict of interest.

Goes to jail for what? For taking your money "no questions asked" or for "not returning* you the coin that belongs to you"?
* - making it unreasonably difficult and expensive.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
conspirosphere.tk
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November 27, 2012, 02:59:55 PM
 #1379

Fugged about it. I prefer to donate all my assets to someone who sends Giga in jail.

If Giga goes to jail getting anything out of those assets would be difficult. Sounds like a conflict of interest.

Probably he can be refunded too under civil law.
About jail I think there are laws about selling securities and scamming people. But that's the job for a lawyer.

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November 27, 2012, 03:15:52 PM
 #1380

disclaimer: I do not own any giga shares and never have, but this is starting to smell like Pirate! Respected member changing rules to suit his needs? WTF people.  file a small claims court and he has to appear in person or someone who is not a LAWYER has to appear in front of judge and explain the situation. And if he doesn't show up, you win and now can file liens against giga personally AND AGAINST ANY BUSINESS HE OWNS.
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