★★★ MEMs LIST of GAMBLING SITES ★★★

[mem]

I see on original list bitbet is still on there.  I think there are some issues lately, check threads on gambling page.  If they are legit complaints then the site is a scam.

bitbet.us ?

the site operator is a crook and a foul mouthed racist (mpoe-r = micera = hate speech enthusiast).
Historically they have resolved at least 3 vague bets in the site owners favour when the bets should have been nullified.

Despite the owner being a truly nasty piece of shit and several highly questionable bet resolutions I only list the site as untrustworthy

see here: http://memslist.com/?action=site_status&url=bitbet.us

The reason being is thus:

Micera being a waste of human life does not invalidate his business.

Now specifically regarding wager resolutions.

* a wager with unclear outcomes should never be hosted.
* All outcomes must be verifiable by independent 3rd parties.
* Wording of the wager must be clear without any room for re-interpretation (leave that for the bible).

Now when a site operator hosts a wager which fails to meet the above they are:

* stupid
* possibly corrupt (they intend to bet at the last minute and get creative interpreting the bet result (best example is bitbet.us for this).
* Highly untrustworthy if they resolve the bet despite unclear wording &/ outcomes.

And of course the punter is also:

* stupid, sorry guys but treat all wagers like a deal with the devil (literally for bitbet.us ).
* inexperienced. Avoid bets that are not properly structured paying close attention to  outcome conditions and timing.
* Possibly the site operator using a sock puppet (micera/ mpoe-r is terrible for this ) to reassure other punters "HEY DERP DERP, I TRUST BITBET.US YOU SHOULD TO, EVERYONE ELSE IS A TROLL AND JEALOUS".

Id label bitbet.us an outright scam if they ran off with the money or if resolutions of bets with absolute conditions contradicted the outcome.

mpoe-r / micera is just another nasty used car salesman. His transmissions are full of saw dust and they have put epoxy on every oil leak they could find, but he does sell cars and does not out right lie regarding the cars condition (just extremely misleading and a poor excuse for a human being).

[1714130949]

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[1714130949]

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[1714130949]

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[mem]

Hey mem,

I have some btc invested in YABTCL, and I think their system is really provably fair.

I will try to explain it from what I understood from the help.

OK, what is the order of the addresses in the file ?
I contacted the admin, who said it is chronological order by time of bet.

actually the file generated one and a half our before the draw contains the tickets that will participate on the draw.

OK, how can I as a player tell what times the bets were made ?
waiting on response.

didn't understand why this is important to you. The time that the tickets were bought did not affect the lottery result. if two tickets hit 2 winning numbers, they will divide the 2-hits-jackpot.

buuuut then, how do we know their not sneaking in another bet at the last minute after checking the results and not being happy with the payouts ?

this was answered in the quote you made from the lottery help.

We will timestamp the SHA256 file hash with a bitcoin transaction.

the SHA256 hash is enough to you to know that not a single byte of the file was modified, Or the SHA256 hash would be complete different.

and to prove that the SHA256 informed wasn't also changed, they timestamp the hash with a bitcoin transaction.

This mean that after the file was generated, a bitcoin transaction is generated to prove that the file wasnt modified. So, when the draw winning numbers are generated, the bitcoin transaction timestamping the sha256 hash of the file was already pushed into the network.

Hope this help you to understand their system.

By the way, you have a very nice site.

Good luck with it.

Thanks Im going to have 1 last stab it today before I throw it on the back burner.

What I have realized from reviewing yabtcl is that its not enough for sites to simply describe their provably fair system they need to walk through an example.

[mem]

Hello Mem,

BitDice.me in a pending list for about a month or so, can we somehow speed the process up a little bit?

I think you will notice there are also others who have been waiting just as long

I have 2 sites which have donated some btc for me to review so they have jumped the queue for today.
Then I have a site owner who has been patiently waiting for me to get back to him regarding 1 user owning multiple sites.

Then if time permits I'll start on the oldest item In my pending list

[mem]

something weird happened, a entry was deleted

http://www.directbet.eu/

thanks to the site owner for notifying me of that, hunting down the issue now.

[mem]

something weird happened, a entry was deleted

http://www.directbet.eu/

thanks to the site owner for notifying me of that, hunting down the issue now.

Not deleted as confirmed here: http://memslist.com/?action=site_status&url=directbet.eu

What happens when a site owner adds their site, it goes into "pre-pending". Regular users do not see any sites that are in pre-pending, Ive done this to prevent bots spamming scams.

Once Ive bumped the status players can see it.

[mem]

ok enough people have asked, Im going to put skype on my linux workstation.

Casino operators can contact me directly for chats etc and so can players if they have any concerns or queries.

Warning, my office looks like a rubbish tip for tech gear and I'll likely be tired and grumpy.
I'll paste the details here shortly.

[mem]

OK, how can I as a player tell what times the bets were made ?
waiting on response.

didn't understand why this is important to you. The time that the tickets were bought did not affect the lottery result. if two tickets hit 2 winning numbers, they will divide the 2-hits-jackpot.

I guess since the file of all entrants is generated 1.5 hours before the result is picked and the result uses a string from the future that neither site owners nor players can predict this is indeed a non issue.

Entered a round just then and could not for the life of me find the servers secret hash for the current round.

[mem]

To prove that we didn't touch the file after the generation of the winning numbers, we timestamped the SHA256 hash of the file (248963103EEC8E07889EA6E843662F7F26256F2F79809189513964BA53F7650F) with a bitcoin transaction (374a0f85a8fb175c31fa1e06e1bc76575d18d6369526343dfe328785379801d4. Click here to check the SHA256 hash of the file against the transaction.

Maybe the 5th time Ive looked at this and I fail to make any sense of it.

so file hash: 248963103EEC8E07889EA6E843662F7F26256F2F79809189513964BA53F7650F (or is this a time stamped hash).
bitcoin tx: 374a0f85a8fb175c31fa1e06e1bc76575d18d6369526343dfe328785379801d4
and the actual file: https://yabtcl.com/drawFiles/ticketsForDraw99.txt

mem@linux1:~$ sha256sum ticketsForDraw99.txt
248963103eec8e07889ea6e843662f7f26256f2f79809189513964ba53f7650f  ticketsForDraw99.txt

OK good, the file hash checks out....

so somehow this JS confirms the file hash from info in the bitcoin txid:

http://jsfiddle.net/yabtcl/PfcWQ/embedded/result%2Cjs%2Chtml/?txid=374a0f85a8fb175c31fa1e06e1bc76575d18d6369526343dfe328785379801d4

Id like to know how this is achieved, Ive had a look through the JS but i cant figure out how the file hash is extracted from the rawtx.
But props to the site operator for providing an offline/ independent verifier.

the draw secret:
1gKyMJCbfN4EPKCX7229g4xcbddTusDzMNAhG57D63k2baaSPNwYWRhobtCYTCGXcEYm2CrAuUai1Pm y7AkhRiG

where is the hash of the draw secret ?

[mem]

bumpy

luckyb.it reviewed and approved, I quite like the use of binary string to determine right/ left.
Everydice approved, very nice site

yabtcl .... just 1 last query, regarding the location of the secret hash.

I think I may have reviewed and approved another today as well, but I forgot which site it was

Will try and bash out a few more tomorrow.

list being updated right now...

[mem]

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yeeshh, for those wondering this is a bad example of how to list your site and also how to piss me off (now I have to go clean it up).

As stated in the game form, you are not to create an entry for each coin a game supports.
There will be badges added at a later date to indicate altcoin support but for now lets not spam the list over and over with the same games.

[Bitflipper]

Nice forumpage 

maybe find out this one www.bitbetnow.com

[wayneyoyo]

Theres no JD or PD ?

[mem]

Theres no JD or PD ?

check again wayneyoyo, they are there

[BRules]

Id like to know how this is achieved, Ive had a look through the JS but i cant figure out how the file hash is extracted from the rawtx.

I contacted the site admin informing that there's some discussion about his site in this thread and asked for his help on this matter.

where is the hash of the draw secret?

you can find it on the help page, on the "Draws" section:

"Each draw have an associated secret, you can download the SHA512 hashes of the secrets clicking here."

http://yabtcl.com/drawsSecretsHashes.txt

[yabtcl]

hi all,

mem, you said: "What I have realized from reviewing yabtcl is that its not enough for sites to simply describe their provably fair system they need to walk through an example."

So, I'm not clear if you're talking about my site.

In every draw, we have an explanation about the provably fair system using the values used in that draw. Do you think we need to improve it? What do you missed in the explanation?


Now, let me explain the technical details how we timestamp the SHA256 hash with a bitcoin transaction.

The SHA256 hash has a total of 64 characters, so we split the hash in 10 parts of 6 characters.

We also defined a specific address to each hashpart.

So, after getting the SHA256 hash of the file, we divide the 64 characters into 11 parts and transform each part into a decimal number. The decimal number got in each part will be the amount of satoshis needed to be sent to the address representing that part. As nowadays a bitcoin transaction output need to have at least 5430 satoshis, we add this amount to each part and then create a bitcoin transaction to timestamp the SHA256 of the file.

Hope it is clear.

Any question, just ask.

And tks again for reviewing our lottery.

[LuckyBitSupport]

luckyb.it reviewed and approved, I quite like the use of binary string to determine right/ left.

Awesome! Thanks a lot for all the work you are putting into this!  

If we may suggest an improvement for the list: a legend of the merit badges would be awesome!

[LuckyBitSupport]

To prove that we didn't touch the file after the generation of the winning numbers, we timestamped the SHA256 hash of the file (248963103EEC8E07889EA6E843662F7F26256F2F79809189513964BA53F7650F) with a bitcoin transaction (374a0f85a8fb175c31fa1e06e1bc76575d18d6369526343dfe328785379801d4. Click here to check the SHA256 hash of the file against the transaction.

Maybe the 5th time Ive looked at this and I fail to make any sense of it.

What people don't seem to realize in the Bitcoin gambling world is that there are degrees of "provably fair", as illustrated by yabcl here.
(Some started using just "fair" or "provable results" to distinguish between different degrees of "provably fair"; always meant to write a post dedicated to this...)

Anyways, any multiplayer game cannot, by design, be provably fair. This is simply because nobody can prove that the site owner did not use shills to alter their chances. This applies of course to all multiplayer games, so every poker suffers from this for example. It's just wrong to call these games "provably fair". Something as done by yabctl is more like as "provable as a multiplayer game can get".

And @BRules: because of the same reasons, investments are never provably fair - you'll just have to trust the operator

[BRules]

This is simply because nobody can prove that the site owner did not use shills to alter their chances.

And @BRules: because of the same reasons, investments are never provably fair - you'll just have to trust the operator

maybe I'm wrong, but what I got is even if the yabtcl site owner(s) decide to play some tickets, it won't alter anyone chance. this is because when the tickets are listed in the file, the lottery result will depend on a event that will happen one and a half hour later.

I agree that in the case of the dice sites, as the bets results are instants, the site owner can defraud investors and they will think that was just a luck player. But I don't see how can this be achieved in the YABTCL site.

[LuckyBitSupport]

maybe I'm wrong, but what I got is even if the yabtcl site owner(s) decide to play some tickets, it won't alter anyone chance. this is because when the tickets are listed in the file, the lottery result will depend on a event that will happen one and a half hour later.

Yes, you are right, I stand corrected. In case of a lottery, additional players do not alter your chances of winning.
Of course, additional players influence your expected return, but they do so while paying into the jackpot, so it's all in order.

3rd edit: still not sure if they are provable fair.
(Have to agree with mem though: their explanation of their system is rather hard to follow.)

As they don't put the txids of the bets in the results, you can't prove that payment occurred, thereby giving the operators the possibility to play for free, which goes back to my previous point.

[mem]

hi all,

mem, you said: "What I have realized from reviewing yabtcl is that its not enough for sites to simply describe their provably fair system they need to walk through an example."

So, I'm not clear if you're talking about my site.

In every draw, we have an explanation about the provably fair system using the values used in that draw. Do you think we need to improve it? What do you missed in the explanation?


Now, let me explain the technical details how we timestamp the SHA256 hash with a bitcoin transaction.

The SHA256 hash has a total of 64 characters, so we split the hash in 10 parts of 6 characters.

We also defined a specific address to each hashpart.

So, after getting the SHA256 hash of the file, we divide the 64 characters into 11 parts and transform each part into a decimal number. The decimal number got in each part will be the amount of satoshis needed to be sent to the address representing that part. As nowadays a bitcoin transaction output need to have at least 5430 satoshis, we add this amount to each part and then create a bitcoin transaction to timestamp the SHA256 of the file.

Hope it is clear.

Any question, just ask.

And tks again for reviewing our lottery.

https://yabtcl.com/drawsSecretsHashes.txt

Ahhh there it is.

that wraps it up nicely then.

Also the timestamp is quite nifty, thanks for the explanation.
Regarding extra details, I'll sit down tomorrow and send you an example of where I personally would like a bit more a helping hand when working my way through the results.

Just one quick example is the JS that fetches the txid hash, I noted in the code you embedded the addresses.
Thats fine, not an issue at all - but Id suggest perhaps updating the js so it fetches the file and explodes it.

Its a minor minor detail, but I had to look at the code to figure out where the file was being pulled from, only to see that for each draw you post updated JS with the file contents embedded.

also I had the opportunity to try your password reset feature, extremely impressed with your innovation there.

Also I quite like the lottery itself as far as lotteries go, I used to work for an award winning lotteries agent for 3.5 years when I was much younger and you have done a nice job of implementing the payouts, the extra numbers and your tables showing payouts. Its a very traditional lotto, I hate to play them personally as after 3.5 years you get used to people pouring their money away, buut it doesnt mean I cant appreciate a good implementation when I see it, well done.