[ANN] SuperNET NXT asset 12071612744977229797, SUPERNET KMD assetchain in summer

[zanzibar]

Am I the only one who reads this and still has a million questions?  I can't separate your talk of SuperNet assets (among the several other assets you are promoting) and the actual SuperNet client.  Is the SuperNet a client that I can download that will offer features of all participating coins?  How do you manage blockchains of all these participating coins in one client?  How do I use Nxt features if I only have BTCD in my wallet?  What if Nxt releases a feature that replaced my coins one unique SuperNet feature, will I be kicked out of SuperNet?  I'm not trying to berate you, but need some common sense in this thread.

These are very good questions!

I think a familiarity with the reskinned NXT GUI is a needed discussion. For BTCD we are taking the baseline NXT GUI and then adding new pages and reskinning it so it is saying the BTCD with the BTCD graphics. now this NXT GUI is actually a locally generated HTML, so there is no software as usual, you just go to 127.0.0.1:port and magically there is a "website" but it is only running on your local computer.

The way we are integrating this for BTCD is that in the QT we are adding a button that will automatically log into a 1:1 mapped NXT address. So you put in your public BTCD address, click a button and now it is opening the BTCD reskinned web GUI

So please imagine this is happening with more coins, they are all opening a reskinned GUI so their users are seeing their coin and the text, graphics, these are all HTML, each coin community can enable/disable/remove/add whatever they like. There is no forcing of any coin to do anything they are not wanting to. For example, let us say a coin is wanting a new exchange to be traded on. They make an MGW asset and now it is possible to directly trade their coin using NXT AssetExchange (AE). This is built into the NXT GUI, but at first there is blank slate. No assets are actually listed, however, it would make sense for a coin community to preload their mgwCOIN asset so when their users are starting the reskinned GUI it is going to where they can directly trade their coin.

There will be a standard page in the reference implementation of the reskinned GUI with the cross marketings of the other coins and eventually some google like text ads. I guess if a coin community is against such things they are of course free to remove this page, but I will hope that there are many features of interest and usefulness that this "island" thinking will not be so common. Of course, this is why the coin community revenue share is proportional to the revenues their users are responsible for. If they are removing this tastefully done page offering all the best of SuperNET core and the generous advertisers, then their share would be 0.00000000 BTC.

so, UNITY spirit is very good and I hope powerful, but money is a strong force that motivates many people and this is being used to encourage the cross selling. Also notice that it is HTML and any sort of coin specific pages can be added to the reference implementation.

It would not be fair to kick out any coin that is earning its place inside the SuperNET core. Short of abandonment by the coincommunity I think it is very common sense to grandfather any coin in the CORE. This is a complex question as to what is "abandonment", so in the event some coin community is making some horrible (I cant even imagine what this could be) actions, maybe there is some sort of gathering of the peers. If there is some nearly unanimous decision that a particular coin should be ejected from the CORE, I would honor that, but I would think this would be quite a rare event if it ever even happens

James

Okay, I think I understand, the majority of BTT users are speculative investors, so I'm not sure how much they are going to see the utility of a SuperNet. I'm not too familiar with BTCD, but I like Nxt and it's roadmap for features, so I hope that will be a big part of the core, I seem to remember you talking about a "Nxt Inside" initiative, but not sure if that's changed.

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[jl777]

So let me get this straight.

SuperNET basically will be its own blockchain kind of like BTC where all these alts can go and spawn off of instead of relying on the BTC blockchain?

If it's that, it's actually genius, alts should have had their own chain net to run off already instead of relying on the BTC net.  And with better quality control, this can definitely show people that crypto can be trusted.

SuperNET is using offchain tech I made this year for NXTprivacy privacyServers. Originally it was a distributed thing, but after some feedbacks I was able to fully decentralize it. So now with the simple linking of libjl777 as described in the OP, any coin can directly tap into this encryption network. It is the fundamental base that Teleport is built on top of and supports the onion routing and even bitmessage like broadcast. However due to the expected number of nodes I am limiting the broadcast method for the publishing of public addresses and your node's privacyServer (which can be yourself!) so that the other nodes can connect to it directly

The UDP is used to prevent the usual TCP/IP DOS attacks. It is not foolproof but I think much harder to be attacking the connectionless UDP packets. There is API you invoke by making a JSON string with the SuperNET function and some are processed locally, some are query to your privacyServer, some are sent to the destination via N randomly chosen privacyServers, and this N it is also selected randomly each time to avoid attacker to know how many more hops to final destination.

So, there is a publicNXT address that is derived from a publicCOIN address (the privkey for the publicCOIN address is used as NXT passphrase) and this allows for everyone in the SuperNET to directly address anybody else with a single pubNXT address. I am still working to make a pubBTC address as I feel some would prefer that.

This way if you are a node on SuperNET you put in sig your SuperNET pubaddr and also in the .conf file (I hope that the GUI will make this easy for people!) and then the libjl777 automatically does the linking of NXT addr broadcasting of the required details so that all the other nodes can address packets/messages/telepods/payments to your node

Not as simple as I would like it, but the need to allow people to shield their IP address is very important, so it is possible to have a VPS with some public IP address you dont mind people finding out about and this is where you run a node, then on your local machine you are running another node specifying your VPS as your privacy server.

Now when people are sending packets to you, they are sending to your pubaddr, but via the IP address of your privacyServer.

Of course, if you are not shy about people knowing your IP address, then both the local node and privacyServer are running on the same computer and you put in 127.0.0.1 as your privacyServer's IP address

So, there is no SuperNET blockchain, it is more like the ocean that connects all the islands that each coin's blockchains represent.

I hope I have answered your question satisfactorily

James

[jl777]

Am I the only one who reads this and still has a million questions?  I can't separate your talk of SuperNet assets (among the several other assets you are promoting) and the actual SuperNet client.  Is the SuperNet a client that I can download that will offer features of all participating coins?  How do you manage blockchains of all these participating coins in one client?  How do I use Nxt features if I only have BTCD in my wallet?  What if Nxt releases a feature that replaced my coins one unique SuperNet feature, will I be kicked out of SuperNet?  I'm not trying to berate you, but need some common sense in this thread.

These are very good questions!

I think a familiarity with the reskinned NXT GUI is a needed discussion. For BTCD we are taking the baseline NXT GUI and then adding new pages and reskinning it so it is saying the BTCD with the BTCD graphics. now this NXT GUI is actually a locally generated HTML, so there is no software as usual, you just go to 127.0.0.1:port and magically there is a "website" but it is only running on your local computer.

The way we are integrating this for BTCD is that in the QT we are adding a button that will automatically log into a 1:1 mapped NXT address. So you put in your public BTCD address, click a button and now it is opening the BTCD reskinned web GUI

So please imagine this is happening with more coins, they are all opening a reskinned GUI so their users are seeing their coin and the text, graphics, these are all HTML, each coin community can enable/disable/remove/add whatever they like. There is no forcing of any coin to do anything they are not wanting to. For example, let us say a coin is wanting a new exchange to be traded on. They make an MGW asset and now it is possible to directly trade their coin using NXT AssetExchange (AE). This is built into the NXT GUI, but at first there is blank slate. No assets are actually listed, however, it would make sense for a coin community to preload their mgwCOIN asset so when their users are starting the reskinned GUI it is going to where they can directly trade their coin.

There will be a standard page in the reference implementation of the reskinned GUI with the cross marketings of the other coins and eventually some google like text ads. I guess if a coin community is against such things they are of course free to remove this page, but I will hope that there are many features of interest and usefulness that this "island" thinking will not be so common. Of course, this is why the coin community revenue share is proportional to the revenues their users are responsible for. If they are removing this tastefully done page offering all the best of SuperNET core and the generous advertisers, then their share would be 0.00000000 BTC.

so, UNITY spirit is very good and I hope powerful, but money is a strong force that motivates many people and this is being used to encourage the cross selling. Also notice that it is HTML and any sort of coin specific pages can be added to the reference implementation.

It would not be fair to kick out any coin that is earning its place inside the SuperNET core. Short of abandonment by the coincommunity I think it is very common sense to grandfather any coin in the CORE. This is a complex question as to what is "abandonment", so in the event some coin community is making some horrible (I cant even imagine what this could be) actions, maybe there is some sort of gathering of the peers. If there is some nearly unanimous decision that a particular coin should be ejected from the CORE, I would honor that, but I would think this would be quite a rare event if it ever even happens

James

Okay, I think I understand, the majority of BTT users are speculative investors, so I'm not sure how much they are going to see the utility of a SuperNet. I'm not too familiar with BTCD, but I like Nxt and it's roadmap for features, so I hope that will be a big part of the core, I seem to remember you talking about a "Nxt Inside" initiative, but not sure if that's changed.

The NXT, it is in the SuperNET core
Let me know if you are having specific questions

James

[jl777]

just a question:
if I put 100k nxt on this IPO (i.e the second day) how can you calculate the % of SuperNET I buy?
I mean, value of nxt is changing every second, value of btcd too..
will you consider the value at the IPO start, when I buy or when IPO end? There are many dangers and someone can "play smart"..

I think the assumption is the total percent will be divided by all tokens sold.

IF 100BTC worth of IPO sells, and you spent 10BTC you should expect 10%

If 100,000BTC sells and you spent 10BTC you should expect .1%

IF you purchase early, and/or with NXT or BTCD bonus you will get that much of a bonus, so your 100k nxt  with a 19% bonus would get you  little over 7BTC at todays price of 0.0000591

If its its 100BTC total, 7%.. etc..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762346.msg8646182#msg8646182

[LemonAndFries]

So let me get this straight.

SuperNET basically will be its own blockchain kind of like BTC where all these alts can go and spawn off of instead of relying on the BTC blockchain?

If it's that, it's actually genius, alts should have had their own chain net to run off already instead of relying on the BTC net.  And with better quality control, this can definitely show people that crypto can be trusted.

SuperNET is using offchain tech I made this year for NXTprivacy privacyServers. Originally it was a distributed thing, but after some feedbacks I was able to fully decentralize it. So now with the simple linking of libjl777 as described in the OP, any coin can directly tap into this encryption network. It is the fundamental base that Teleport is built on top of and supports the onion routing and even bitmessage like broadcast. However due to the expected number of nodes I am limiting the broadcast method for the publishing of public addresses and your node's privacyServer (which can be yourself!) so that the other nodes can connect to it directly

The UDP is used to prevent the usual TCP/IP DOS attacks. It is not foolproof but I think much harder to be attacking the connectionless UDP packets. There is API you invoke by making a JSON string with the SuperNET function and some are processed locally, some are query to your privacyServer, some are sent to the destination via N randomly chosen privacyServers, and this N it is also selected randomly each time to avoid attacker to know how many more hops to final destination.

So, there is a publicNXT address that is derived from a publicCOIN address (the privkey for the publicCOIN address is used as NXT passphrase) and this allows for everyone in the SuperNET to directly address anybody else with a single pubNXT address. I am still working to make a pubBTC address as I feel some would prefer that.

This way if you are a node on SuperNET you put in sig your SuperNET pubaddr and also in the .conf file (I hope that the GUI will make this easy for people!) and then the libjl777 automatically does the linking of NXT addr broadcasting of the required details so that all the other nodes can address packets/messages/telepods/payments to your node

Not as simple as I would like it, but the need to allow people to shield their IP address is very important, so it is possible to have a VPS with some public IP address you dont mind people finding out about and this is where you run a node, then on your local machine you are running another node specifying your VPS as your privacy server.

Now when people are sending packets to you, they are sending to your pubaddr, but via the IP address of your privacyServer.

Of course, if you are not shy about people knowing your IP address, then both the local node and privacyServer are running on the same computer and you put in 127.0.0.1 as your privacyServer's IP address

So, there is no SuperNET blockchain, it is more like the ocean that connects all the islands that each coin's blockchains represent.

I hope I have answered your question satisfactorily

James

Interesting concept, bringing all of the coins together to make a SuperNetwork then.

Tip my hat to you for creating such an intricate network.

My head exploded just thinking how complicated this whole thing is, trying to bring so many different kinds of networks together into one super network.

I will watch for further updates.

[jl777]

So let me get this straight.

SuperNET basically will be its own blockchain kind of like BTC where all these alts can go and spawn off of instead of relying on the BTC blockchain?

If it's that, it's actually genius, alts should have had their own chain net to run off already instead of relying on the BTC net.  And with better quality control, this can definitely show people that crypto can be trusted.

SuperNET is using offchain tech I made this year for NXTprivacy privacyServers. Originally it was a distributed thing, but after some feedbacks I was able to fully decentralize it. So now with the simple linking of libjl777 as described in the OP, any coin can directly tap into this encryption network. It is the fundamental base that Teleport is built on top of and supports the onion routing and even bitmessage like broadcast. However due to the expected number of nodes I am limiting the broadcast method for the publishing of public addresses and your node's privacyServer (which can be yourself!) so that the other nodes can connect to it directly

The UDP is used to prevent the usual TCP/IP DOS attacks. It is not foolproof but I think much harder to be attacking the connectionless UDP packets. There is API you invoke by making a JSON string with the SuperNET function and some are processed locally, some are query to your privacyServer, some are sent to the destination via N randomly chosen privacyServers, and this N it is also selected randomly each time to avoid attacker to know how many more hops to final destination.

So, there is a publicNXT address that is derived from a publicCOIN address (the privkey for the publicCOIN address is used as NXT passphrase) and this allows for everyone in the SuperNET to directly address anybody else with a single pubNXT address. I am still working to make a pubBTC address as I feel some would prefer that.

This way if you are a node on SuperNET you put in sig your SuperNET pubaddr and also in the .conf file (I hope that the GUI will make this easy for people!) and then the libjl777 automatically does the linking of NXT addr broadcasting of the required details so that all the other nodes can address packets/messages/telepods/payments to your node

Not as simple as I would like it, but the need to allow people to shield their IP address is very important, so it is possible to have a VPS with some public IP address you dont mind people finding out about and this is where you run a node, then on your local machine you are running another node specifying your VPS as your privacy server.

Now when people are sending packets to you, they are sending to your pubaddr, but via the IP address of your privacyServer.

Of course, if you are not shy about people knowing your IP address, then both the local node and privacyServer are running on the same computer and you put in 127.0.0.1 as your privacyServer's IP address

So, there is no SuperNET blockchain, it is more like the ocean that connects all the islands that each coin's blockchains represent.

I hope I have answered your question satisfactorily

James

Interesting concept, bringing all of the coins together to make a SuperNetwork then.

Tip my hat to you for creating such an intricate network.

My head exploded just thinking how complicated this whole thing is, trying to bring so many different kinds of networks together into one super network.

I will watch for further updates.

I use a shortcut, I just use the Internet

No, really, this network for all coins is always there

I am doing some calcs to make sure each node can directly address all other SuperNET nodes and it is not a problem at first, but as more and more coins join, then it does become an issue.

but we can cross these hurdles as each new coin is added. At worst we need some few special gateway nodes to interconnect coin networks via nodes with highbandwidth and running both coins. These nodes will get a subsidy from the SuperNET revenue sharing to pay for the extra costs. Wont be a money maker, but shouldnt be a money loser either

So, this is an area where I could use some assistance.  I have some funds available to use for a bounty to have the code for these gateway nodes to be done.  If anybody can help with this sort of thing, plz PM me.

James

[jl777]

jl777

Well, I will definitely buy some. No brainer. What I am a little confused with is how will this impact assets like cryptocard, instaDEX, MGW, NXTprivacy, and were you also connected in some way to NXTTYcoin?

My initial thoughts are to hold all those and try and get more NXT, as it looks like NXT may win the decentralized exchange race, which is about as big as it gets. Then obviously buy in on this one once Poloniex offers it. Does that sound like a good plan? I just don't know if this new project makes any of the older ones obsolete, or if it just raises them all as one along with NXT in general? Thanks in advance for any advice.

I am not involved in NXTTY, I actually havent had a chance to look at it, so this is no reflection on it in any way. I have been a bit busy this year.

I cannot predict what prices any of the assets will achieve.
there are some baseline formulas that are possible to know, but these are relative between the assets, so there is no anchor price to allow an accurate calculation of lifetime future cashflow discounted to the present (and adjusted for risk factors) (and adjusted again for general growth or lack thereof for crypto)

There will be assets inside the SuperNET core and these will benefit from their services being made available. I just make these services, I am not able to accurately predict if more fees are generated from Teleport, InstantDEX trading, anon card (renamed to SuperNET card) fees, Privatebet gambling, etc.

This satoshidice thing, I dont understand how it is so popular, but it is making many revenues, so do not trust my judgement for details on which asset is going to do better.

This is like asking a farmer, which is better, your prize winning tomatoes or your prize winning oranges?
they are not directly comparable. All I can do is continue to make all of my assets as good as they can be and then the market will tell me I should have made some "Hello Kitty" stuff.

So, I have made matroshka assets and you can pick any specific one that you are feeling is strongest, or if you cant decide, just get JLH, it has pretty much all of them. sharkfund0 maps to Teleport, NXTprivacy has both the SuperNET card and Privatebet. The Privatebet is now having the instaDICE based on new tech just received, and will hopefully have a full set of casino games, each game with its own asset and of course the sportsbetting.

Now the SuperNET future dividends are simply the combining of all of these into a single asset that just happens to be ~100% backed by crypto from its IPO and has a bunch of supertraders using 10% of funds to make bragging rights.

I am not so good at predicting end user behaviors, but I am a bit better at predicting investor behaviors. I view the SuperNET IPO, even with no bonus and therefore some ~12% premium like a compressed spring. You are paying by its height when it is all compressed (book value), but we are not sure how high the spring will jump. Theoretically it should go to some multiple of book value. Will it be 1.1x book value or 10x bookvalue when it starts trading? Well, I am pretty sure it will be somewhere in between

A lot of traders are perfectly happy with an immediate double so there will be some sellings at 2x book value. The question I dont know is if there will be demand at 2x. Certainly the sum of all the revenue streams from all the assets must have some value, quite possible a very large value when you start doing some spreadsheets with Number of users, Average fees per user, etc. like I know some of you have done. It is quite complex and the big X factor is what happens if BTC does indeed exceed TacoBell? All this increase in BTC will naturally bring more users into crypto and what will they find? SuperNET will be hard to miss, so as BTC keeps growing and bringing in more fiat money and peoples, the SuperNET revenue base is expanding. This is all conjecture and any large range of numbers can be justified, impressive flowcharts and financial projections to be made. I am sure I could have sold a bunch of SuperNET at 2x book value, but as I have written below, this is not about squeezing all the last dollars from investors pockets. I am no investment banker that specializes in such things.

I am wanting to make many happy rich crypto peoples. And so we go back to the question of how much buying demand there will be right after the IPO. Since the IPO is not making any advertising and happening fast, I think a significant amount will still be on the sidelines, so let us assume that the lack of liquidity wont be a factor. Then we now come to the big question. is the spring going to jump a little or a lot?

I am not sure, but I do feel there is some chance to be jumping to where we are filling the 2x offers, but remember I am just a simple C programmer. Please do the homeworks and your own evaluation.

James

[stellarman]

I don't have time to read the entire thread. But one thing strikes me, that I feel I should comment on.

You are talking about an IPO here. The word is right there in the title of the post.

In my opinion (an opinion that is informed by ten years experience as a Security Principal for three different securities broker/dealers) everyone involved (James and everyone who is thinking of investing) needs to understand clearly the definition of the word "security". In this case, the definition we are interested in is the definition that involves investments.

In the United States, the US Supreme Court has ruled (in SEC v. Howey) that a "securities contract" is defined as a contract, transaction, or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or third party.

If you are offering an IPO for SuperNET, you are almost certainly creating a "securities contract".

Let's look at this definition in terms of the issuance of a cryptocurrency. Let's say that the promoters issue a certain number of coins to the company or the development team, and then open up sales to the public. As soon as someone buys those coins from the promoters, with the expectation that the value will go up, you are walking straight into "securities contract" territory. I believe there is very a real possibility that the SEC could (and would) take the position that the developers have offered and sold a security. The regulators would make the case that sale of the coin is a "transaction or scheme" where people are investing money (by buying coins), in a "common enterprise" (the IPO) with the expectation that the value of the coins will go up based on the efforts of the "promoters" (SuperNET and its developers).

All it takes is one dissatisfied purchaser to bring this to the attention of regulators (if they aren't already aware of it). Far from unifying the crypto community, this could easily lead to more scrutiny from the regulators and a black eye for the community. And, frankly, it could even lead to civil or criminal charges.

But wait. What if the developers of the business and coin are incorporated in a jurisdiction outside the United States? Or, what if the business is a Distributed Autonomous Corporation, with no headquarters or jurisdiction anywhere? In either case, if a developer individually, or the "company" as an entity sells to US citizens, it generally needs to comply with US laws. And, I think it is fairly clear that it also doesn't make any difference if the start-up company's coins were purchased in exchange for another cryptocurrency, like Bitcoin, NXT or BBR.

The guys like Ethereum who have done this type of thing successfully have structured their offer very carefully, have given investors lots of disclosures and warnings, and still could be treading on thin ice.

Since Poloniex is a US company, I think they should take a long, hard look at what they are potentially getting themselves into before they start participating in an offering of unregistered securities. I like Poloniex -- and have coins there -- so I hope they have a good attorney.

To any potential investors, I would point out that this (SuperNET IPO) is exactly the type of risky venture that the securities regulations are designed to protect you from.

Please note that I am not taking any position, pro or con, about the technology involved, or about James as a person. I'm just trying to warn about a situation that could be harmful not only to individual investors, but the entire community.

I don't have a lot of time to try to follow this thread, so don't necessarily expect me to reply to the (probably inevitable) crush of angry replies.

[PondSea]

just a question:
if I put 100k nxt on this IPO (i.e the second day) how can you calculate the % of SuperNET I buy?
I mean, value of nxt is changing every second, value of btcd too..
will you consider the value at the IPO start, when I buy or when IPO end? There are many dangers and someone can "play smart"..

I think the assumption is the total percent will be divided by all tokens sold.

IF 100BTC worth of IPO sells, and you spent 10BTC you should expect 10%

If 100,000BTC sells and you spent 10BTC you should expect .1%

IF you purchase early, and/or with NXT or BTCD bonus you will get that much of a bonus, so your 100k nxt  with a 19% bonus would get you  little over 7BTC at todays price of 0.0000591

If its its 100BTC total, 7%.. etc..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762346.msg8646182#msg8646182

Sorry I am on a mobile so I do apologise if that has been answered.

At what rate would Nxt and btcd be converted to btc?

Would it be on the day your coins go into the ipo address or at the end of the ipo?

If it is at the end that can be gamed .

[CryptoClub]

jl777

Well, I will definitely buy some. No brainer. What I am a little confused with is how will this impact assets like cryptocard, instaDEX, MGW, NXTprivacy, and were you also connected in some way to NXTTYcoin?

My initial thoughts are to hold all those and try and get more NXT, as it looks like NXT may win the decentralized exchange race, which is about as big as it gets. Then obviously buy in on this one once Poloniex offers it. Does that sound like a good plan? I just don't know if this new project makes any of the older ones obsolete, or if it just raises them all as one along with NXT in general? Thanks in advance for any advice.

I am not involved in NXTTY, I actually havent had a chance to look at it, so this is no reflection on it in any way. I have been a bit busy this year.

I cannot predict what prices any of the assets will achieve.
there are some baseline formulas that are possible to know, but these are relative between the assets, so there is no anchor price to allow an accurate calculation of lifetime future cashflow discounted to the present (and adjusted for risk factors) (and adjusted again for general growth or lack thereof for crypto)

There will be assets inside the SuperNET core and these will benefit from their services being made available. I just make these services, I am not able to accurately predict if more fees are generated from Teleport, InstantDEX trading, anon card (renamed to SuperNET card) fees, Privatebet gambling, etc.

This satoshidice thing, I dont understand how it is so popular, but it is making many revenues, so do not trust my judgement for details on which asset is going to do better.

This is like asking a farmer, which is better, your prize winning tomatoes or your prize winning oranges?
they are not directly comparable. All I can do is continue to make all of my assets as good as they can be and then the market will tell me I should have made some "Hello Kitty" stuff.

So, I have made matroshka assets and you can pick any specific one that you are feeling is strongest, or if you cant decide, just get JLH, it has pretty much all of them. sharkfund0 maps to Teleport, NXTprivacy has both the SuperNET card and Privatebet. The Privatebet is now having the instaDICE based on new tech just received, and will hopefully have a full set of casino games, each game with its own asset and of course the sportsbetting.

Now the SuperNET future dividends are simply the combining of all of these into a single asset that just happens to be ~100% backed by crypto from its IPO and has a bunch of supertraders using 10% of funds to make bragging rights.

I am not so good at predicting end user behaviors, but I am a bit better at predicting investor behaviors. I view the SuperNET IPO, even with no bonus and therefore some ~12% premium like a compressed spring. You are paying by its height when it is all compressed (book value), but we are not sure how high the spring will jump. Theoretically it should go to some multiple of book value. Will it be 1.1x book value or 10x bookvalue when it starts trading? Well, I am pretty sure it will be somewhere in between

A lot of traders are perfectly happy with an immediate double so there will be some sellings at 2x book value. The question I dont know is if there will be demand at 2x. Certainly the sum of all the revenue streams from all the assets must have some value, quite possible a very large value when you start doing some spreadsheets with Number of users, Average fees per user, etc. like I know some of you have done. It is quite complex and the big X factor is what happens if BTC does indeed exceed TacoBell? All this increase in BTC will naturally bring more users into crypto and what will they find? SuperNET will be hard to miss, so as BTC keeps growing and bringing in more fiat money and peoples, the SuperNET revenue base is expanding. This is all conjecture and any large range of numbers can be justified, impressive flowcharts and financial projections to be made. I am sure I could have sold a bunch of SuperNET at 2x book value, but as I have written below, this is not about squeezing all the last dollars from investors pockets. I am no investment banker that specializes in such things.

I am wanting to make many happy rich crypto peoples. And so we go back to the question of how much buying demand there will be right after the IPO. Since the IPO is not making any advertising and happening fast, I think a significant amount will still be on the sidelines, so let us assume that the lack of liquidity wont be a factor. Then we now come to the big question. is the spring going to jump a little or a lot?

I am not sure, but I do feel there is some chance to be jumping to where we are filling the 2x offers, but remember I am just a simple C programmer. Please do the homeworks and your own evaluation.

James

Thanks!

[stormia]

Very interested in this project- posting to follow the thread.

[jl777]

I don't have time to read the entire thread. But one thing strikes me, that I feel I should comment on.

You are talking about an IPO here. The word is right there in the title of the post.

In my opinion (an opinion that is informed by ten years experience as a Security Principal for three different securities broker/dealers) everyone involved (James and everyone who is thinking of investing) needs to understand clearly the definition of the word "security". In this case, the definition we are interested in is the definition that involves investments.

In the United States, the US Supreme Court has ruled (in SEC v. Howey) that a "securities contract" is defined as a contract, transaction, or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or third party.

If you are offering an IPO for SuperNET, you are almost certainly creating a "securities contract".

Let's look at this definition in terms of the issuance of a cryptocurrency. Let's say that the promoters issue a certain number of coins to the company or the development team, and then open up sales to the public. As soon as someone buys those coins from the promoters, with the expectation that the value will go up, you are walking straight into "securities contract" territory. I believe there is very a real possibility that the SEC could (and would) take the position that the developers have offered and sold a security. The regulators would make the case that sale of the coin is a "transaction or scheme" where people are investing money (by buying coins), in a "common enterprise" (the IPO) with the expectation that the value of the coins will go up based on the efforts of the "promoters" (SuperNET and its developers).

All it takes is one dissatisfied purchaser to bring this to the attention of regulators (if they aren't already aware of it). Far from unifying the crypto community, this could easily lead to more scrutiny from the regulators and a black eye for the community. And, frankly, it could even lead to civil or criminal charges.

But wait. What if the developers of the business and coin are incorporated in a jurisdiction outside the United States? Or, what if the business is a Distributed Autonomous Corporation, with no headquarters or jurisdiction anywhere? In either case, if a developer individually, or the "company" as an entity sells to US citizens, it generally needs to comply with US laws. And, I think it is fairly clear that it also doesn't make any difference if the start-up company's coins were purchased in exchange for another cryptocurrency, like Bitcoin, NXT or BBR.

The guys like Ethereum who have done this type of thing successfully have structured their offer very carefully, have given investors lots of disclosures and warnings, and still could be treading on thin ice.

Since Poloniex is a US company, I think they should take a long, hard look at what they are potentially getting themselves into before they start participating in an offering of unregistered securities. I like Poloniex -- and have coins there -- so I hope they have a good attorney.

To any potential investors, I would point out that this (SuperNET IPO) is exactly the type of risky venture that the securities regulations are designed to protect you from.

Please note that I am not taking any position, pro or con, about the technology involved, or about James as a person. I'm just trying to warn about a situation that could be harmful not only to individual investors, but the entire community.

I don't have a lot of time to try to follow this thread, so don't necessarily expect me to reply to the (probably inevitable) crush of angry replies.

warning: the following response is insulting the great nation of USA. please protect the children, women, and anybody else from exposure to such things and do not complain if you are reading some things about USA you are not liking to read.
end of warning

it goes without saying that if your country is not allowing for such things, then please do not invest. There are hundreds of countries and hundreds of sets of laws and in the crypto there is the concept that no one country's laws is to dictate globally. I think maybe USA should learn that it is just one small part of the world and the sooner its fiat hyperinflates, I think the better for the rest of the world. Personally, the laws of a country that makes using crypto or making a coin backed by precious metals the same as having weapons or being a terrorist, well it seems to lack common sense. Its a good thing the "eminent domain" legal theory is allowing for all the levels of government to simply take someones land and give it to the much more deserving real estate developer. I dont know how the rest of the world can be called civilized without its govts protecting their citizens in the same way. Can you imagine a life without shopping malls built on the land stolen from its rightful owners?

Now 99% of the funds raised will be held in escrow and the other 1% will have all of its transactions being documented. I will run the operations side at a 90% profit margin. All of these revenue flows will be left visible on the blockchain (I wont be teleporting it out of sight!) and significant amounts fed back into the coin communities. The 10% for the supertraders are not able to be withdrawn. Common sense protections are in place for the funds. Also, we are not spending a zillion dollars on fancy suit lawyers, bankers, etc. The money not spent is allowing for the book value sale.

Maybe we can change this to being totally donation based. Such donations would happen to get tallied, and and asset issued to each donation in proportion to the donation. Then this asset will be used to determine the amount of counter donations that are sent to an address holding these assets. As some sort of nonprofit coop, I believe it is a totally different animal than selling "air" backed by just tech + future expectations.

I am working for no salary, I am putting my own net worth into this and investors are getting the same ROI as I do. Now the SuperNET is not selling "air", it is backing the funds raised (whatever you call it) with the funds raised and there is no charge for the future revenue streams to the people participating. I will hope you are not quibbling over the 15% bonus that gives the early investors below liquidation value. Is this something USA has to protect people from too? This too is probably illegal in USA for some guy to give away the revenue streams to investors. USA needs to protect the investors from receiving future dividends. What else will USA protect us from? Is the 99% in escrow not enough? Is the 90% profit margin too low? Is my zero salary too high? Is the fact that we have no overhead too risky?

I am saying I dont know how much the future profits will be. There is no price for this portion. It is quite possible that I forget how to code and cant finish any of the nearly finished projects. it is possible that no coin will want to join SuperNET. it is possible that people all stop using crypto. it is possible that blah blah blah. There are risks with everything. does listing out all these risk factors change anything? The Bitcoin community is an intelligent one, call it an international club and they are not seeking the USA's protection. I am making as low risk vehicle as I can think how to do. Can you do any better than me with all your experiences? The only one thing I can guarantee is that I am not made of cheese.

So the fiat empire is wanting to make troubles to the crypto movement. I am making what is arguably the most secure thing in crypto, which also has an upside. To my limited knowledge SuperNET is a unique thing and cannot be compared with any prior crypto. this means general advices are potentially meaningless. Please tell me specifically what are the things about SuperNET that USA must protect people from?

without any specifics, you are like the troll using the FUD. this is fiat FUD. now you are writing as if you are so concerned about the crypto community, then please take the one hour out of your precious billable hours and donate it to the crypto cause to advises us poor simpletons who can barely understand about this danger thing called money. I mean we hardly deserve to be having any of it in the first place, maybe we should just send it all to USA so they can spend it to protect us from super risky things?

James

P.S. To the peoples of USA, please do not get me wrong. The people of USA are really quite fantastic and have such positive ideals and dreams and, well, the govt has just gotten so out of control and using all means at its disposal for sucking the humanity out of you. I am sad by this. Tragic events have been used to multiply the power over your lifes and from what I hear it is much more difficult to even just pay all the bills, unless you are real estate developer or someone else who is playing the proper people the proper monies. The hard working USA person is at a big disadvantage against the very system built on your back. I am hopeful that after some few short years, the inevitable economics of overspending will bring some happy changes, but there is some trouble to get through before the new happy times without the burdensome govt in every area of your lives. I wish you well and will do my best to help with whatever power the SuperNET achieves.

[jl777]

just a question:
if I put 100k nxt on this IPO (i.e the second day) how can you calculate the % of SuperNET I buy?
I mean, value of nxt is changing every second, value of btcd too..
will you consider the value at the IPO start, when I buy or when IPO end? There are many dangers and someone can "play smart"..

I think the assumption is the total percent will be divided by all tokens sold.

IF 100BTC worth of IPO sells, and you spent 10BTC you should expect 10%

If 100,000BTC sells and you spent 10BTC you should expect .1%

IF you purchase early, and/or with NXT or BTCD bonus you will get that much of a bonus, so your 100k nxt  with a 19% bonus would get you  little over 7BTC at todays price of 0.0000591

If its its 100BTC total, 7%.. etc..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762346.msg8646182#msg8646182

Sorry I am on a mobile so I do apologise if that has been answered.

At what rate would Nxt and btcd be converted to btc?

Would it be on the day your coins go into the ipo address or at the end of the ipo?

If it is at the end that can be gamed .

gaming will be too expensive
do not worry my friend
we have a plan!
details very soon

[zanzibar]

Not all things US Gov are bad, I like flushing my toilet and having my garbage picked up weekly.  Anyway, I think his point is be careful about using Poloniex for your IPO because the Gov can shut it down pretty easily.

[tobeaj2mer01]

Very good, I will hold all my Syscoin, DEV will contact jl777 to add this coin, it has some special features which other haven't.

I don't mean this in a mean spirited way because I truly feel for all the people that invested in that IPO, but from all sources it would seem that SYS can barely get a blockchain running. I've heard nothing but woe from people who invested in it and have watched failure after failure bring their investment down to below what they paid for it in a short period of time.

I don't mean this as a personal attack against you at all - it just irks me that projects like that are able to collect 1500 BTC from the community while quality projects struggle to fund even the bare minimum of a handful of BTC in a fair manner.

Man, I don't agree with you, please see the latest status of SYS

We realize the last two weeks may have seemed like slow motion but we were intentionally holding off heavy marketing until everything had been verified working and stable. There were actual issues with the client the first week which caused network instability. We didn't want to draw attention to something that wasn't operating 100%.

The following week the team focused on enabling merged mining and service-fee regeneration for miners. If you watched the network hashrate (which can be considered the stability of the network) it was very low- 2GH because of all of the issues the daemon was causing for pools. In the 0.1.4 release we not only addressed these daemon issues bringing all of the pools back, but we also enabled merged-mining and service fee regenerated rewards for miners starting @ block 17k. We had to monitor the network closely during this launch to ensure pools were operational again and the subsequent merged mining started hard fork to make sure that all went smoothly- and it did. Now the network is incredibly stable with about 15GH average for a coin less than a month old with low rewards- we see this as a positive for those looking to do business on this network.

Finally, there were issues relaunch the 0.1.4 wallet on wallet reload which we wanted to fix and did with 0.1.4c. Now we have a proper product we can market aggressively inside and outside of the crypto space. Starting any marketing before all of the various features were enabled (mergemine/regen) and the network was stable would have been repeating mistakes we learned from at launch.

I wanted to take the time to explain the above so people can understand we have been busy these past few weeks. And we plan to remain busy moving forward. I have to reiterate that Syscoin is a coin with actual NEW features and thus we had problems no other coin would have at launch. We also present service offerings that literally don't exist in the current marketplace.

We need to be strategic about how we bring these features to market and that takes some planning and what may appear to be slower steps but its really just measured steps. You can't throw out a decentralized marketplace to the mainstream public and expect them to immediately understand its benefits or how to use it without a number of educational materials, examples, and even references for developers to build upon. We have plans to provide all of this, and we're going to do it one feature at a time to continue to refine our approach with each successive initiative. All of the four services are working perfectly in the client already- this is about our strategy to increase market adoption of those services.


Over the coming weeks we will be looking to push the marketplace feature specifically. We already have a new website, forums and blog coming. The blog will be the new home for all major news updates, we will still post here but they will be links to the blog. the blog will be a clean space to find Syscoin's latest news.

In addition to the above we'll be creating a microsite dedicated to the Syscoin Marketplace service. The site will explain the advantages of using the Syscoin marketplace, it will have links to existing Syscoin Marketplaces, and it will have information on how to get started with your own Syscoin Marketplace. As part of this effort we are looking to hire a professional copywriter, web developer, and designer/illustrator to help expedite the creation of this site. The microsite will really target getting current merchants / possible sellers and focus on helping them understand the Syscoin value proposition and even get started with their own marketplace.

We'll also be contracting out several 'microexample' sites we are going to make open source which build on the Syscoin Marketplace API in different ways to serve as examples for developers. We are rewriting the documentation for Syscoin Marketplace APIs to be more accessible to developers and provide developer FAQs in a portal dedicated to helping devs get going with Syscoin as well.

Alongside all of this we want to update the QT wallet with real interfaces for accessing and browsing the marketplace. This includes interfaces for items you've bought, items you have for sale, purchasing items from web markets, and searching the entire blockchain for items for sale.

We are also working on new core features in parallel with all of this as outlined in our roadmap- specifically multisig encryption using native Syscoin keys. While that is going on the other parts of the team will be focused on ramping up this marketing effort around Syscoin Marketplace APIs.

Moolah has provided us with some operating funds to cover our pre-existing expenses but they still hold the majority of the presale fund, including the 250BTC of SYS purchased as early buy support put up by the team. We are asking for a clear statement on the distribution of the remainder of the fund by this weekend 9/7.


TL;DR;
- made mistakes at launch and held off marketing until network was stable
- know marketing is important but offering is complex, focusing on one feature at a time- marketplace first
- hiring outside help to assist in first real marketing effort around a feature. Looking for: Marketing Copywriter, Srs Web Developer CSS/HTML/JS/Node, Designer/Illustrator/Web Designer
- Moolah has still not released the full presale funds to us- we are asking that they clarify the situation with these funds by 9/7

[jl777]

Not all things US Gov are bad, I like flushing my toilet and having my garbage picked up weekly.  Anyway, I think his point is be careful about using Poloniex for your IPO because the Gov can shut it down pretty easily.

wow, you dont have to live in garbage and the toilets actually work!
USA is a paradise indeed. Hardly anywhere else in the world has such luxuries
you probably even have hot water and electricity!

Now seriously, just how primitive do you think the rest of the world is?

James

[Chester-Chark]

super NET  super MAN... what's new?

[mladen00]

Not all things US Gov are bad, I like flushing my toilet and having my garbage picked up weekly.  Anyway, I think his point is be careful about using Poloniex for your IPO because the Gov can shut it down pretty easily.

wow, you dont have to live in garbage and the toilets actually work!
USA is a paradise indeed. Hardly anywhere else in the world has such luxuries
you probably even have hot water and electricity!

Now seriously, just how primitive do you think the rest of the world is?

James

+1

p.s. in rest of the world many countries has free medical care

[jl777]

super NET  super MAN... what's new?

For those not too familiar with NXT and even those that are, the following is a must see page:

http://www.nxttechnologytree.com/

It shows the view from inside the SuperNET core and a bit of a glimpse into the future

[tobeaj2mer01]

@James, are you aware of Syscoin,  will you consider SYS to join in SuperNET?