[ANN] SuperNET NXT asset 12071612744977229797, SUPERNET KMD assetchain in summer

[PondSea]

Just out of interest, say tomorrow would be the 2 weeks. If the next day we cannot get 3% it should end in 2 days but what on the second day it does 5% will it still close the following day?

[marechoux]

Since SuperNET holds 7.245% of NXTventure, does SuperNET now also possess some Atomic shares?

indirectly it does

theoretically the increase in value of the Atomic should ripple through and increase the value of SuperNET.

There are price discrepancies as the assets are not arbitraged in realtime like other markets (yet), so this makes for ways that people can make some trading profits. once all the price discrepancies are smoothed out, then I expect any value increase of a SuperNET indirect holding will boost the valuation.

This effect is clearest with JLH. I keep adding new assets to it, without it paying anything, so this makes is NAV go up. However it is traded in multiple markets and its price is usually lagging the NAV for a while, until the market realizes that it is underpriced. so there is a time lag and for each level of indirection I would assume another lag.

as fast as crypto is, the price movements are actually still quite slow and possible to trade manually

James

Is it a bad idea that supertraders do this arbitrage?

I mean if the price of unity is under the NAV they can buy some unity  and lead the NAV at a higher price because they would use less bitcoin to buy than bitcoin equivalent of unity (true value of the fund) that it represents.

If it is not clear imagine for exemple there is some panic sell from some assetholder :

-Supertraders have a buy order at 95% of the NAV (the value should be always calculated in all the coins of supernet)
-Supertraders buy it with BTC / NXT/ BBR or other coin (maybe the margin should be bigger for coins with less volume trading)
-So the total fund of supernet has decreased but the NAV is higher making all assetholder remaining more rich.
-After it could happen a panic buy so supertraders can sell unity at 105% of NAV.

ps: The value of 95%/105% is just to have an idea of the margin in order to make the exemple more clear but it should be calculated.

[jl777]

Just out of interest, say tomorrow would be the 2 weeks. If the next day we cannot get 3% it should end in 2 days but what on the second day it does 5% will it still close the following day?

I stated that once the stoppage is triggered, it will be over in 2 days. Since it is likely that a lot of people will do some last minute purchases, it could well exceed 5%, but there is no point to extend the fund raising if less than 3% is coming in.

[jl777]

Since SuperNET holds 7.245% of NXTventure, does SuperNET now also possess some Atomic shares?

indirectly it does

theoretically the increase in value of the Atomic should ripple through and increase the value of SuperNET.

There are price discrepancies as the assets are not arbitraged in realtime like other markets (yet), so this makes for ways that people can make some trading profits. once all the price discrepancies are smoothed out, then I expect any value increase of a SuperNET indirect holding will boost the valuation.

This effect is clearest with JLH. I keep adding new assets to it, without it paying anything, so this makes is NAV go up. However it is traded in multiple markets and its price is usually lagging the NAV for a while, until the market realizes that it is underpriced. so there is a time lag and for each level of indirection I would assume another lag.

as fast as crypto is, the price movements are actually still quite slow and possible to trade manually

James

Is it a bad idea that supertraders do this arbitrage?

I mean if the price of unity is under the NAV they can buy some unity  and lead the NAV at a higher price because they would use less bitcoin to buy than bitcoin equivalent of unity (true value of the fund) that it represents.

If it is not clear imagine for exemple there is some panic sell from some assetholder :

-Supertraders have a buy order at 95% of the NAV (the value should be always calculated in all the coins of supernet)
-Supertraders buy it with BTC / NXT/ BBR or other coin (maybe the margin should be bigger for coins with less volume trading)
-So the total fund of supernet has decreased but the NAV is higher making all assetholder remaining more rich.
-After it could happen a panic buy so supertraders can sell unity at 105% of NAV.

ps: The value of 95%/105% is just to have an idea of the margin in order to make the exemple more clear but it should be calculated.

I will not be micromanaging the SuperTraders, so if they think it makes sense to arbitrage maybe they will. I do think there will be better ways of making good ROI though.

It is certainly possible for market price to be around NAV, but with all the future revenue streams coming online, then we will soon see some premiums to NAV and this would make all these below NAV scenarios very rare

[PondSea]

Just out of interest, say tomorrow would be the 2 weeks. If the next day we cannot get 3% it should end in 2 days but what on the second day it does 5% will it still close the following day?

I stated that once the stoppage is triggered, it will be over in 2 days. Since it is likely that a lot of people will do some last minute purchases, it could well exceed 5%, but there is no point to extend the fund raising if less than 3% is coming in.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[jl777]

got JSON.({"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello"})
pNXT_json_commands sender.(482478496576188177) valid.1 | size.22 | command.(sendmessage) orig.([{"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello","NXT":"482478496576188177"},{"token":"sc749qe0te0ln5417busj6453qnkfl5knuhev55ilij0jhqqh7jqq09h8hbqe08116u2r9totg04edv r2ia77c3f43pd8l6flk9m4q3hv8j0aomunkbeoh1puui7ssrgevae58f77jba9digp7n0dgvr27l621 2g"}])
sendmsg_func sender.(482478496576188177) valid.1 dest.(8894667849638377372) ([{"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello","NXT":"482478496576188177"},{"token":"sc749qe0te0ln5417busj6453qnkfl5knuhev55ilij0jhqqh7jqq09h8hbqe08116u2r9totg04edv r2ia77c3f43pd8l6flk9m4q3hv8j0aomunkbeoh1puui7ssrgevae58f77jba9digp7n0dgvr27l621 2g"}])
ONIONIZE: np.0x7f3700010530 NXT.8894667849638377372 8894667849638377372 pubkey.f080a422dff8ed23 encode len.275 -> new len.331 + 42 = 373
sendmessage ([{"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello","NXT":"482478496576188177"},{"token":"sc749qe0te0ln5417busj6453qnkfl5knuhev55ilij0jhqqh7jqq09h8hbqe08116u2r9totg04edv r2ia77c3f43pd8l6flk9m4q3hv8j0aomunkbeoh1puui7ssrgevae58f77jba9digp7n0dgvr27l621 2g"}]) len.275 to 8894667849638377372
np.0x7f3700000ea0 NXT.482478496576188177 | destnp.0x7f3700010530
add layer 1: NXT.13434315136155299987
ONIONIZE: np.0x7f37000025f0 NXT.13434315136155299987 13434315136155299987 pubkey.aeb37026ae0c3b45 encode len.373 -> new len.429 + 42 = 471
ONIONIZE: np.0x7f37000025f0 NXT.13434315136155299987 13434315136155299987 pubkey.aeb37026ae0c3b45 encode len.471 -> new len.527 + 42 = 569
DIRECT udpsend to 209.126.70.159/6777 finalbuf.573
portable_udpwrite 573 bytes to 209.126.70.159/6777
parms.({"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello","NXT":"482478496576188177"}) valid.1
UDP RECEIVED
{"status":"482478496576188177 sends via p2p encrypted sendmessage to 8894667849638377372 pending"}
decrypted2 len.373 dest.(13434315136155299987)
[?wȄH5p{ߝ??u4#.?s/o?^
                        ?3???%<
@K?$A???F?$?%?e򘂮q["] argjson.(nil) udp.0x7f370802b5c0
DIRECT udpsend to 209.126.70.156/6777 finalbuf.377
portable_udpwrite 377 bytes to 209.126.70.156/6777
UDP RECEIVED


The above is the result of: ./BitcoinDarkd SuperNET '{"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello"}'
on one server and:


UDP RECEIVED
mismatched len expected 13411 got 275
decrypted len.275 dest.(7310874250626366299)
[[{"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello","NXT":"482478496576188177"},{"token":"sc749qe0te0ln5417busj6453qnkfl5knuhev55ilij0jhqqh7jqq09h8hbqe08116u2r9totg04edv r2ia77c3f43pd8l6flk9m4q3hv8j0aomunkbeoh1puui7ssrgevae58f77jba9digp7n0dgvr27l621 2g"}]] argjson.0x7f443c0109f0 udp.0x7f4454023000
pNXT_json_commands sender.(482478496576188177) valid.1 | size.22 | command.(sendmessage) orig.([{"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello","NXT":"482478496576188177"},{"token":"sc749qe0te0ln5417busj6453qnkfl5knuhev55ilij0jhqqh7jqq09h8hbqe08116u2r9totg04edv r2ia77c3f43pd8l6flk9m4q3hv8j0aomunkbeoh1puui7ssrgevae58f77jba9digp7n0dgvr27l621 2g"}])
sendmsg_func sender.(482478496576188177) valid.1 dest.(8894667849638377372) ([{"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello","NXT":"482478496576188177"},{"token":"sc749qe0te0ln5417busj6453qnkfl5knuhev55ilij0jhqqh7jqq09h8hbqe08116u2r9totg04edv r2ia77c3f43pd8l6flk9m4q3hv8j0aomunkbeoh1puui7ssrgevae58f77jba9digp7n0dgvr27l621 2g"}])
received message.([{"requestType":"sendmessage","dest":"8894667849638377372","msg":"hello","NXT":"482478496576188177"},{"token":"sc749qe0te0ln5417busj6453qnkfl5knuhev55ilij0jhqqh7jqq09h8hbqe08116u2r9totg04edv r2ia77c3f43pd8l6flk9m4q3hv8j0aomunkbeoh1puui7ssrgevae58f77jba9digp7n0dgvr27l621 2g"}])
add.1 Uaddr.(209.126.70.159/6777) to 0


A lot of back and forth just to send "hello", but this is the same path for any SuperNET API call between two nodes.

I had to make some shortcuts to get this to work, but now that I have it working for this command, it is a matter of propagating this to all the other API calls. I also need to check for any memory leaks, i have a feeling I put some in there as I changed to a more streamlined approach.

also, only one API call is differentiating between a locally generated API call and a remotely sent one. Clearly we need some sort of limits on what sort of API calls we allow remote nodes to do!

The messaging is not filtering and this needs to be fixed in the BTCDcore, but now I am able to solidify the SuperNET routing and get back to implementing the API calls themselves.

James

tl:dr making steady progress debugging the core of SuperNET functionality, once this is done I can complete the Teleport

[Forobitcoins]

james, do you think supernet be able to distribute a million dollars a month in dividends?

at some point in the future, ofcourse

[jeezy]

james, do you think supernet be able to distribute a million dollars a month in dividends?

at some point in the future, ofcourse

Why shouldn't it be able to? There is no technical difference in distributing $1000 oder $1000000 or BTC50 or NXT3000000...!?

[Forobitcoins]

james, do you think supernet be able to distribute a million dollars a month in dividends?

at some point in the future, ofcourse

Why shouldn't it be able to? There is no technical difference in distributing $1000 oder $1000000 or BTC50 or NXT3000000...!?

I mean if supernet can reach that amount of dividends

[Cassius]

james, do you think supernet be able to distribute a million dollars a month in dividends?

at some point in the future, ofcourse

Why shouldn't it be able to? There is no technical difference in distributing $1000 oder $1000000 or BTC50 or NXT3000000...!?

I mean if supernet can reach that amount of dividends

Assuming my reasoning is correct (which you never should), I'd say $1m is no big deal:

Let's say for a moment that SuperNET is a strong, stable real-world company that pays a totally respectable dividend of 5%.
Say also that its market cap is book value, and book value is $2m, because BTC has taken quite a beating recently, if you'd noticed...
That gives total dividends of $40k.
But, of course, SuperNET's market cap ought to be way over book value. Consensus is that #10 on CMC is not unreasonable by the end of the year, as James' bonus is tied to this. Right now that's around $8m, so let's say x4, gives dividends of $160k.
Real-world companies might work on a profit margin of 15%, whereas SuperNET plans to operate on 90%, so x6 = $1m, give or take.

There are factors which could impact that estimate a lot, but both ways - BTC could crash further and stay down, but equally some revenue streams could perform strongly or SuperNET could have a market cap of $30m in 15 months (#5 CMC which James' other bonus is tied to).

This is why I plan to reinvest dividends, certainly to begin with.

EDIT: just realised you said 'a month'! That changes things a little, obviously - though not that much if your timescale expands by a year or so.

[RichardT]

james, do you think supernet be able to distribute a million dollars a month in dividends?

at some point in the future, ofcourse

Why shouldn't it be able to? There is no technical difference in distributing $1000 oder $1000000 or BTC50 or NXT3000000...!?

I mean if supernet can reach that amount of dividends

Assuming my reasoning is correct (which you never should), I'd say $1m is no big deal:

Let's say for a moment that SuperNET is a strong, stable real-world company that pays a totally respectable dividend of 5%.
Say also that its market cap is book value, and book value is $2m, because BTC has taken quite a beating recently, if you'd noticed...
That gives total dividends of $40k.
But, of course, SuperNET's market cap ought to be way over book value. Consensus is that #10 on CMC is not unreasonable by the end of the year, as James' bonus is tied to this. Right now that's around $8m, so let's say x4, gives dividends of $160k.
Real-world companies might work on a profit margin of 15%, whereas SuperNET plans to operate on 90%, so x6 = $1m, give or take.

There are factors which could impact that estimate a lot, but both ways - BTC could crash further and stay down, but equally some revenue streams could perform strongly or SuperNET could have a market cap of $30m in 15 months (#5 CMC which James' other bonus is tied to).

This is why I plan to reinvest dividends, certainly to begin with.

EDIT: just realised you said 'a month'! That changes things a little, obviously - though not that much if your timescale expands by a year or so.

I think it will depend a lot on how many coins with unique tech and how many revenue producing services are available on SuperNET (and of course, how well each perform on the market individually).  Since SuperNET is such a new and revolutionary idea in crypto, it will likely take awhile to catch on and to reach that amount in dividends (a year or more).  Or there's a small chance it will just completely blow up in the next few months.  You really can't know for sure, which makes it exciting.

[logictense]

Amazing, sounds really great! The only thing I don't understand is why you have chosen bter instead of poloniex to conduct the IPO. Using bter would increase multigateway volume and avoid a too big total volume; this way shares wouldn't be that diluted and small fishes wouldn't be eliminated.

[Cassius]

Amazing, sounds really great! The only thing I don't understand is why you have chosen bter instead of poloniex to conduct the IPO. Using bter would increase multigateway volume and avoid a too big total volume; this way shares wouldn't be that diluted and small fishes wouldn't be eliminated.

Poloniex backed out.
It doesn't work like that. The assets are backed by the crypto invested, rather than being diluted. It just means you own a smaller slice of a larger pie - and a larger pie has bigger purchasing power and network effect.

[Este Nuno]

james, do you think supernet be able to distribute a million dollars a month in dividends?

at some point in the future, ofcourse

Why shouldn't it be able to? There is no technical difference in distributing $1000 oder $1000000 or BTC50 or NXT3000000...!?

I mean if supernet can reach that amount of dividends

Assuming my reasoning is correct (which you never should), I'd say $1m is no big deal:

Let's say for a moment that SuperNET is a strong, stable real-world company that pays a totally respectable dividend of 5%.
Say also that its market cap is book value, and book value is $2m, because BTC has taken quite a beating recently, if you'd noticed...
That gives total dividends of $40k.
But, of course, SuperNET's market cap ought to be way over book value. Consensus is that #10 on CMC is not unreasonable by the end of the year, as James' bonus is tied to this. Right now that's around $8m, so let's say x4, gives dividends of $160k.
Real-world companies might work on a profit margin of 15%, whereas SuperNET plans to operate on 90%, so x6 = $1m, give or take.

There are factors which could impact that estimate a lot, but both ways - BTC could crash further and stay down, but equally some revenue streams could perform strongly or SuperNET could have a market cap of $30m in 15 months (#5 CMC which James' other bonus is tied to).

This is why I plan to reinvest dividends, certainly to begin with.

EDIT: just realised you said 'a month'! That changes things a little, obviously - though not that much if your timescale expands by a year or so.

I think it will depend a lot on how many coins with unique tech and how many revenue producing services are available on SuperNET (and of course, how well each perform on the market individually).  Since SuperNET is such a new and revolutionary idea in crypto, it will likely take awhile to catch on and to reach that amount in dividends (a year or more).  Or there's a small chance it will just completely blow up in the next few months.  You really can't know for sure, which makes it exciting.

Good post. It's important to remember that the cryptospace is general is still growing and it will likely take a while to really begin to reach it's full potential. As long as the product is solid though, over time things should work out.

Keeping expectations reasonable is a good thing.

[dewey556]

does somebody know whats going on with jl777hodl went up like 30% since I last checked.

[Cassius]

Right. I think $1m / year is pretty reasonable, if those assumptions are correct. Maybe not by the end of this year, but not too long after. $1m / month in a year or two is reasonable as well.
This being crypto, 'reasonable' means that multiplying or dividing your market cap by 10 in a year is a normal sign of success or failure, respectively

[bitdraw]

does somebody know whats going on with jl777hodl went up like 30% since I last checked.

it was undervalued if you check the assets included

[Cassius]

does somebody know whats going on with jl777hodl went up like 30% since I last checked.

New assets get thrown into it periodically. Realisation that its market cap should therefore have risen typically lags a little. It's just people catching up.
Keep an eye on it and you can pick it up cheaply sometimes.

[jeezy]

does somebody know whats going on with jl777hodl went up like 30% since I last checked.

New assets get thrown into it periodically. Realisation that its market cap should therefore have risen typically lags a little. It's just people catching up.
Keep an eye on it and you can pick it up cheaply sometimes.

Given that statement the asset can only rise and is therefor always cheap.

[brooklynbtc]

does somebody know whats going on with jl777hodl went up like 30% since I last checked.

New assets get thrown into it periodically. Realisation that its market cap should therefore have risen typically lags a little. It's just people catching up.
Keep an eye on it and you can pick it up cheaply sometimes.

You can still pick it up cheap. It's barely over NAV on a whole lot of NXT assets that are bound to double. My target for JLH for end of 2104 is 10NXT

I hold 10k and even bought 900 more today at 5.2 so I'm not shitting anyone on this.