Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[DebitMe]

Its funny how they didn't want to talk about an improved compensation plan not more than a couple of days ago, because there was no way to accurately predict what would need to be compensated until things ship, yet now, we will have a new one released tomorrow, when the chips still are not even in hand.

Funny how things progress, better be one hell of an update.

My immediate instinct is that an updated compensation plan just means another multi-month delay.

€


we'll have to figure out what the production schedule actually looks like.  components are coming in at this point, at least according to the pictures.

http://ecointalk.net/gallery/album/18-24-april-update/



accounting for a few more minor hiccups, getting all parts done, some of which still aren't, and some rampup time it looks like it's likely towards the  middle-end of May, early June, before assembly starts in volume, so another month or two delay is about in the ballpark.

when I say month or two that is accounting for the fact that these were supposed to be delivered May 1, not kind of starting to be assembled in mid May, so for me every day past May 1 is further delay.  These won't start going out until end of May most likely so that's a month.  It will be catch up time then to get the remaining batch 1 orders out.  that's month 2.  batch 2 folks?  yer on yer own.  lol.

I know they're citing May 8 for shipping to start, but I simply am not buying that.  Day 7 they get minions, Day 8 they start shipping.  Really?   to me that looks like a string-along date, besides the fact that those would thenl go out with no testing at all.   They might have a few together if all goes well, but shipping in any sort of volume?  I doubt that.

They've done a ton of work over the last month or two and have made some nice adjustments, such as getting the first ones out with metal cases so they don't have to wait on the plastic ones, that have helped them put together a nice closing run.  It may be too little too late, but they have clearly been busting their ass, I'll give them that.  



 

I would agree, unfortunately busting their ass is losing me money, and although they seem to have gotten it together at this point, it is too little too late.  The only redemption at this point would be for their new plan to come out today and literally blow all the competition out of the water with what they are offering to make up for the first delay, and now this delay as well.

[Pentax]

Its funny how they didn't want to talk about an improved compensation plan not more than a couple of days ago, because there was no way to accurately predict what would need to be compensated until things ship, yet now, we will have a new one released tomorrow, when the chips still are not even in hand.

Funny how things progress, better be one hell of an update.

My immediate instinct is that an updated compensation plan just means another multi-month delay.

€


we'll have to figure out what the production schedule actually looks like.  components are coming in at this point, at least according to the pictures.

http://ecointalk.net/gallery/album/18-24-april-update/



accounting for a few more minor hiccups, getting all parts done, some of which still aren't, and some rampup time it looks like it's likely towards the  middle-end of May, early June, before assembly starts in volume, so another month or two delay is about in the ballpark.

when I say month or two that is accounting for the fact that these were supposed to be delivered May 1, not kind of starting to be assembled in mid May, so for me every day past May 1 is further delay.  These won't start going out until end of May most likely so that's a month.  It will be catch up time then to get the remaining batch 1 orders out.  that's month 2.  batch 2 folks?  yer on yer own.  lol.

I know they're citing May 8 for shipping to start, but I simply am not buying that.  Day 7 they get minions, Day 8 they start shipping.  Really?   to me that looks like a string-along date, besides the fact that those would thenl go out with no testing at all.   They might have a few together if all goes well, but shipping in any sort of volume?  I doubt that.

They've done a ton of work over the last month or two and have made some nice adjustments, such as getting the first ones out with metal cases so they don't have to wait on the plastic ones, that have helped them put together a nice closing run.  It may be too little too late, but they have clearly been busting their ass, I'll give them that.  



 

I would agree, unfortunately busting their ass is losing me money, and although they seem to have gotten it together at this point, it is too little too late.  The only redemption at this point would be for their new plan to come out today and literally blow all the competition out of the water with what they are offering to make up for the first delay, and now this delay as well.

yep.  I wish it had turned out better, that much is for sure.  looking at the difficulty rise and BTC lost over the delay period and calculating out another few adjustments until delivery makes me want to hurl.

we'll see what they have to say about improved compensation. 

I've been beating on them mercilessly so I've got to give them a golf clap for what looks like a pretty good effort to bring it together, although right now it still looks like red ink and there's no doubt this has cost us all a ton.

[DebitMe]

True,

it will cost us all except BA.. so their clients / costumers have to bite the dust..

I am actually really interested in hearing what the compensation plan will be improved to.  I was impressed with the recent update, as they will deliver quicker than I had previously guessed (although I wish an apology was in there for missing yet another deadline).  Perhaps they will come out with something that will make me regret getting a refund for my X-3?

Something I would like answered though...
What is BA's production limit per day?  How many X-1's and X-3's can be produced per day and what is the estimate for shipping of the entire batch 1?  Estimate for starting/finish shipping for batch 2?

[notbatman]

You'r going to assemble, test and ship in 24 hours? Fuck off with the fraudulent claims!

Remember the Gravis Ultrasound? I built those things when I was a kid, you guys are full of shit.

[sorehammer]

Black Arrow increases the compensation for preorders
As our shipping is few days away, we wish to thank and give back to all customers that have believed in us.
Today we are increasing increasing the compensation as we are looking to start rewarding our loyal customers:
For Batch 1 customers, the 25% cloud hashing compensation previously announced will be replaced with 50% in the form of physical hardware. The extra hardware will not include power supply or shipping but they will be available to purchase from our store. We will also offer a technical solution for customers who wish to use their own power supplies.
Details:
Every X3 will contain 3 * 1Thash modules, 2 modules with power supplies, one without.
Every 2 * X1 will receive an extra X1, without power supply. Customers who have not purchased even numbers of X1, for the miner that has no pair, we will also offer a free X1 on their next X1 purchase.
Cloud hashing packages will receive 50% extra hashing power minus setup and maintenance costs which will be announced at a later date.
All customers who have placed pre-orders until 05/05/2014 will be offered 25% discount on all future orders of miners based on Minion (limit: up to 10 times the hashing power of their previous orders)
Pending sales and further reducing costs once we go into mass production we are looking to continue offering discounts to the customers that have supported us and made the Minion & Prospero a success story.
Note: The discounts for future orders are offered only to customers who have believed in us and continued to support us. They will not be offered to customers who requested refunds and to a small minority who abused or threatened any member of Black Arrow Team.

[sorehammer]

Ah yes 25% off just have to order again, When I get the bandages of my hands at the burns hospital I may consider that.

You do not have to worry about that; see the note.

What note?

[notbatman]

"As our shipping is few days away"

How is mid-May to early June a few days away?

"Every X3 purchased will now contain 3 * 1Thash modules"

"The extra hardware will not include power supply or shipping but they will be available to purchase from our store."

So every customer now has to wire more money or their order won't be shipped?

I know a Nigerian prince who's making a better offer!

I hope immigration shipps your ass back to Romania.

[DebitMe]

I am going to assume that I am out as far as the extra 25% off of future orders goes, although I have never once threatened any employee of BA.  Good thing I ordered through MinerSource and BA cannot link this account to my order account.  And for that matter, I have supported BA, whether that be in my almost 10,000 dollars of orders so that they can develop their chip, or through making them answer the tough questions posed by the community, of which they owe so much to.

And on to this compensation plan, now more money has to be thrown at you to get any compensation at all, whether that be getting our extra shipped miners to work (power supplies) or getting the money off of future orders?  So we went from getting free stuff added on for funding development, to, "give us more money or your left with nothing extra."  I think the last 2 pages of outrage by your customers shows that this was actually a step backwards.  If 50% extra hashing power is all your going to give us fine, but what led to the idea of not putting the power supply in them?  Why would you give us a product that we cannot use (unless we are really good with I assume soldering as these have special control boards to hook up to a ATX power supply?  I would have to assume you know most of your customers will not be able to do that themselves so was this move based entirely out of getting more money in?  I think we have a right to know.

[goozman96]

Thank you very much Matt for taking care of your customers. I just wish you would import my order into your new site.

[notbatman]

[goozman96]

Thank you very much Matt for taking care of your customers. I just wish you would import my order into your new site.

We are down to the last few, that have to be moved manually. ~90% done.

Thanks. Hopefully it will be imported before the miners start shipping.

[notbatman]

I've been trying to follow all the posts but missed something...

Is BA officially slipping B1 orders X-3's again ... from May 1 to May 8?  I didn't get any email notification from BA ... the latest email I received from BA was on Jan 29 stating that they are slipping B1 shipments until May 1.  So, is this another official slip?

Power Supply for the 3rd 1TH/s module:  Is there an official spec on this?  Should I be getting a Corsair 750?  1200?  Is it even an ATX PSU?  

I see the spec for the X-3 (the 2 TH/s version) says that the Power Consumption is 1050W ... Is that 525W per each of the modules?  So will the 3rd one will also require 525W?  That's less than the 0.75W/GHs they are advertising.  What gives?

Lastly -- how's the 5 days of FREE hosting going to work and when does it begin?  How do we provide the pool information?

Thanks in advance to all

Ping... anyone?

Pong quickly became a success and is the first commercially successful video game -- wikipedia

[DebitMe]

I am checking about that, and offering a Gift Card to my store for the equiv value to allow to be ordered on X1 or X3.

So just hoping to clarify this a little bit as I have a single batch 1 X1 ordered:

You'll be offering customers in my situation a gift card for 50% the value of an x1? Do you know if this is going to be applicable only to Black Arrow hardware you sell or could it be used, say, for gridseeds?

Not trying to press the issue - I know you're in the middle on this and I appreciate everything you're doing for your customers. Just trying to clarify and plan accordingly. Big thank you.

Or perhaps allow them to be sold?  I would split a 50% discount with someone to get 2 miners.   ie...

Someone ordered a single X-1, but cannot afford or chooses not to buy another X-1.  In this scenario, the customer would get nothing based on the current model.  If they were allowed to be sold, I pay customer 1 some agreed upon amount, then use his discount to buy an X-1 and get 2 shipped to me.  I would buy up all I could in this scenario and be a happy customer.

[OleOle]

I am quickly losing faith in the management of this company.  There is no ship date for X-1, no estimated costs for PSU for each unit, no cost on additional shipping.  Not even a prototype video showing a working X-1.  There was also no email sent to anyone that ordered informing them of these changes.

The "compensation" has been thrown together without much thought and does not do anything to actually compensate customers that took a chance on this company.  They know there will be no orders after they ship because of their horrible track record so they're trying to upsell more units to those they already milked.

This is not the right way to do business. 

If they do not take steps to adequately reimburse customers, without requiring any additional investment by the customer,
Black Arrow should be Black Listed by the bitcoin community.

+1

BlackArrow are acting completely dishonourably.

Delay after delay has eroded the viability of their products that customers purchased and the compensation scheme is simply an attempt to coerce customers to try to salvage their investment by throwing good money after bad.

 

[OleOle]

I see MinnerSource has added a Prospero X-1 for June @ $379
I'm tempted to buy, but it seems a little high for 100GH/s so late.  Should I go ahead and place an order or should I hold my coins and see what happens towards the Fall?

I suggest you read back over the last ten pages on this thread, or even the last couple of pages and see what other customers have written. The reason I suggest this is it seems that you haven't really been following this thread otherwise you probably wouldn't ask such a question.

In the end it's all up to you.

 

[notbatman]

KnC delivered product, made a lot of money and mined a whole lot of coins. What an awesome company!

[goozman96]

Thank you very much Matt for taking care of your customers. I just wish you would import my order into your new site.

+1
 I am also waiting for this to happen :\

We are down to the last few- goozman had his down by me by hand eailier. If its still missing- shoot an email to support@minersource and I will be personally working on them tomorrow.

I appreciate it, but it still says that no account exists with my email address in the forgot password page. I'll also send an email.

[notbatman]

What an awesome company!

Ya think....all for $10,000

http://www.coindesk.com/problems-plague-kncminer-broken-super-jupiters-arrive-doorsteps/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6396417#msg6396417

“We will simply assume that every card was damaged in shipment even if it arrived undamaged. We will send out to every customer who had a 3TH Jupiter or several already arrive, enough cards to replace their entire collection.” -- KnC

So I would get double my hashing power if bust out the soldering iron and re-attach the loose caps? Awsome. 

[Mattster28]

Anybody else have their order# change after Minersource transfered to their new site? My order# went from 7xx to 23xx.

[goozman96]

Thank you very much Matt for taking care of your customers. I just wish you would import my order into your new site.

+1
 I am also waiting for this to happen :\

We are down to the last few- goozman had his down by me by hand eailier. If its still missing- shoot an email to support@minersource and I will be personally working on them tomorrow.

I appreciate it, but it still says that no account exists with my email address in the forgot password page. I'll also send an email.

In the interest of being fair and open, I'm happy to report that my order from ~5 months ago has finally been transferred to the latest site. Hallelujah