Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[DebitMe]

We are pleased to confirm that Black Arrow Minion works.

We are now testing speed and power consumption.

YAY, again congratulations.  That is great news.

[DebitMe]

Yes please, for those of us who do not know what the difference in those boards means can you please explain if hitting that 85 GH/s is good?  Is that on target for a 140A board?  Does that put your estimates of getting 120 GH/s on a 200A board feasible?  Please elaborate on what that means?

Small Business Note:  Leaving a message that the chip that was designed to achieve 120 GH/s is getting 85 GH/s, and not explaining to a non-technical crowd what this means is generally a bad idea. (especially when that crowd is already a little angry)

Also - you did not include power specs, were those being tested as well? What are/were they?

Edit:  I think you should post an address where you are doing your testing to, I would like to see/know what BA is doing with the chips now that they are in hand.

[OleOle]

This is great to see the product taking shape. Overdue but better late than never as the phrase goes.

Now if BA dig deep and properly compensate purchasers for their delay, this story may yet have a happy ending.

 

[notbatman]

Including the proposed 50% increase in hardware hashing power that customers are stated to receive they will be receiving less than what other vendors have to offer with in-hand product.

As it currently stands customers are receiving no benefit whatsoever from paying up to 6 months in advance. Customers have also lost about BTC10 in revenue per x-3 due to multiple delays.

While seeing the pictures of the minions gives me hope that it's not a straight up scam i'm still not a happy camper.

[DebitMe]

BA I think there are some questions that need answering, I will try to summarize them...

1) Based on your current testing, at what speed/power consumption will the X-1 be shipping?  The X-3?

2) Are the specs higher than anticipated and what does this mean for...
           a) the boards and other parts in the unit
           b) your end customers who have hosting/cannot run that much power from a wall outlet

3) If the power specs are higher than anticipated, will there be other compensations to make up for this?  Free hosting?

4) Is there still room to add onto the current compensation package?  Free PSU?

5) Where are we in the timeline?  Are X-3's and X-1's going to start shipping today?  Tomorrow?  Further than that?

6) With the increased power, how are temperatures looking?  Is everything still able to be handled by currently designed cases?  (BTW, it is now summer and I just had to turn off my ants as it was too hot with them on, really wish these would have heated my house in Feb, and not burn it up in summer)

7) Are HW errors becoming a problem or is it only because that is the chip overclocked?  What kind of HW errors/power usage if ran at 100 GH/s?

What are undervolting options?  I assume undervolting may be the only way to extend these things's lives.

9) I am assuming these power consumptions are based off of the chip alone?  What kind of added power are we looking at for everything else to run with it in an X-1?  An X-3?

10) How easy will it be to under/overvolt these?  Do you have screenshots of the web interface that we can expect to see?

[DebitMe]

Please remember that testing is still ongoing. All figures published are as they come in.

Are they expecting lower power consumption?  And how long are tests going on for?  Shouldn't shipping start pretty soon according to the previous timeline?

[OleOle]

Not having a power supply is a pretty low move, BA need to step up with more to meet the objective of fair compensation.


Car with no engine?

Bicycle with no wheels?

Bitcoin miner with no power supply?


Say 'No!' to incomplete products 

Demand you get what you rightly paid for 

If BA want to ship 'compensation units' without a psu, how about they send back some BTC so that purchasers can buy their own? Part unit, part refund, come on BA, sweeten the deal and honour the good faith that your customers have placed in you.

We all know you can do better.

 

[heslo]

Ripped from the ecointalk forums....

    27/02/2014 - Production Update

     

    1. Minion tapeout was completed. The final power consumption for the whole chip is 0.75W/Ghash @ TT corner. When using at SS corner (lower voltage) it should use 20% less (0.6W/Ghash)

    2. X1 Hashboard and Control Board have been sent to the factory on Monday.

    3. X3 Hashboard design is complete. Will not send to factory until X1 hashboard test is complete.

    4. X1 Backplane design is almost ready. We expect to send it to the factory next Monday.

    5. Completed the X3 case preliminary design; It was sent for review.

    6. We are running thermal simulation to determine the best airflow for X1 and X3.

    7. Meetings with Verisilicon and Amkor.

    8. Expanded our office and we are actively looking to grow our designer teams.

    9. Progress has been made towards USD refunds. We hope to be able to provide the refunds within the next week or so.

     

    Pending:

     - Waiting for heatsink factory to provide us with the final samples.

     - Waiting for the PSU factory to provide the samples.

     - Document for BTC withdrawals still not ready due to lack of time.

[DebitMe]

uh ... 53 $ for a X-1 Supply     that Hurts...

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/x1-psu.html

Minersource has them for 45$ but that hurts aswell.

And that amount of money for a subpar PSU at that.  They are leaking power, and I have a feeling, these will be attempted to be sold to unknowing individuals who BA is sure cannot test the power draw.

Brian, please get on here and calm some nerves and tell us exactly what is going on and what is being done about it.  Did the "further testing" yield positive results?  Whats happening with the PSU's?  Are all of the necessary parts in to make a complete unit that is ready to show/go?

Bobsag, when do you arrive at their factory?

[DebitMe]

The final thing that is unnerving to me, how many times do these asic companies release  the first batch of machines with no issues? Even after all their testing and what not. I was reading bitmain was having issues with their latest batch of miners, how many get it right the first time with no issues?

You mean all these people bitching in the forums pressuring them to get a product to the market as fast as possible has an negitive effect on quality? Say it isn't so!
[/quote]

You mean they originally set there target date at end of february and totally lied and bullshitted it and its our faults for wanting our money or miners?  Say it ain't so.

[DebitMe]

10k...)))
In the future, 100 or less ...
Then buyers equipment weep ..

A wild Troll with terrible English has appeared!
Kingcolex sent out Pidgey.
Pidgey used whirlwind!
The Troll has fled from battle!

me thinks you played a bit of D&D in your youth.

Pokemon...

[DebitMe]

Love me some pokemon, btw still no update? It is getting a bit past the usual time.

From their forums, david said an update would be coming in the next couple of hours.

edit

Bitcoin Miners progress update – 09 May 2014
1. The Minion has arrived.
a. Has been tested at 120Ghash. The power measured at the wall was 150Watt. This includes the 8% loss of the PSU and currently 20% on the DC/DC converter. This translates on 0.92W/Ghash at the chip level. We have asked the ASIC designers to come to our office to study how to further improve the power efficiency.
b. The expected loss on the DC/DC should be around 10%. We have identified We identified that part of the power used is lost by the inductor. A new customised inductor is scheduled to arrive in one week.
b. We decided to write a software application which will produce a full report to include details on voltage, speed and efficiency at all ranges. Estimated time to completion is up to 3 weeks but this additional feature will not affect the shipping schedule.
c. We believe that further overclocking is available, further tests are scheduled after we complete the assembly of the 200A board tomorrow.
2. All Minion orders have been shipped today.
3. Most of the X3 and X1 PSUs have been delivered are now in stock.
4. The majority of the heatsinks have been manufactured.
5. The first lot of X3 cases has been received. (Aluminium alloy)
6. The control board assembly has just been completed. This is behind schedule and we are not confident at this stage that we can write the LCD driver in useful time for first shipments. If this is the case we will release firmware updates to enable the LCD functionality.
7. The first batch of LCDs was delayed 1 day and is now due to arrive tomorrow.

[DebitMe]

Still nothing about when anything will actually ship (besides chips that do not live up to their specifications), how about a new new delivery schedule (and no that wasn't a typo, I believe its the 3rd revised shipping schedule now.

EDIT: Glad to hear about those LCD's, that no one else has and will set these apart and will be deducted from cost against all other machines on the market, are now delaying productivity.
I assume we will not take the cost of the LCD into account when looking at what is available on the market as any manufacturer could easily stick a piece of glass into their unit.

[notbatman]

The delay train is right on time again, next stop June.

[DebitMe]

So BA continuesly says that they cannot provide any better compensation to customers, and yet as a stock of X-3's from this run at their disposal that will be enough to hash for all X-1 orders!  You are keeping extra units and telling us that nothing more can be done for making us wait and losing us literally thousands of dollars.

SCUM is all I have to say to you.

[goozman96]

That only applies to batch 1 customers though. Price match should be done for every customer.

[DebitMe]

How many X-3 units are you keeping for your personal collection?

Bobsag said that when you announced your data center it would be used for the compensation package, that doesn't need to happen anymore so how many units are you guys sticking in there that you refuse to compensate us with, because that's all you can do?

EDIT: what is your current hashrate from the chips that are in now?

[DebitMe]

How many X-3 units are you keeping for your personal collection?

Bobsag said that when you announced your data center it would be used for the compensation package, that doesn't need to happen anymore so how many units are you guys sticking in there that you refuse to compensate us with, because that's all you can do?

EDIT: what is your current hashrate from the chips that are in now?

Why does it matter how many x3s they will have in their DC?

Did you think they were going to build exactly as many x3s as needed for their rent-a-minion orders and no more?

Seems to me like your just grasping at straws for something to be mad about.

I absolutely did not think they wouldn't keep some, but I think we deserve to know how much they are going to make off of our investment (and our loss)
And honestly at this point you just seem like your trolling (not only this thread, but most of the ones you post in)

EDIT: yea responses on about 90% of your posts point out your trolling, while the other 10% is just ignored.

[goozman96]

Bobsag3 should be arriving in China soon. Looking forward to an update

[DebitMe]

I absolutely did not think they wouldn't keep some, but I think we deserve to know how much they are going to make off of our investment (and our loss)
And honestly at this point you just seem like your trolling (not only this thread, but most of the ones you post in)

EDIT: yea responses on about 90% of your posts point out your trolling, while the other 10% is just ignored.

You didn't think they would make a profit off their business?

I understand you are not happy about the delay but expecting them to go in to bankruptcy so you can get the maximum possible compensation makes no sense.

Oops, was watching baseball/draft and just realized that was phrased badly.  Of course I expect them to keep some and make a profit, but this first batch was entirely funded by our orders, and they have said numerous times that there isn't anything else they can do.  And yet, they are keeping untold numbers of chips, currently mining with untold number of chips, and delaying things further and further, without giving clear roads.

There is still not a timeline on when the X-1's will start to ship, and on top of that, the LCD (which apparently was such a nice feature, even though 99% of people will set up the miner either some place they visit rarely, or will never look at it) will not even work with what is looking to be the entire first batch.  Add on that they are missing specs (doesn't matter if better than antminer, still on par with spondoolies, and worse than AsicMiner (proven) and BFL (allegedly)), and I think we are entitled to some answers/compensation.  The only reason they will make a profit is because we paid for their development and run of chips.

You cant tell me you enjoy being lied to, strung along, lost money, and finally screwed over with the compensation?  And anyone who says they do not have to compensate anyone, you are plain wrong.  They clearly said at the beginning that they would match any price per GH with extra units shipped, now it seems that doesn't really matter.  Or perhaps BA knows that since they haven't shipped, it isn't worth talking about anyway.

Also, the entire delay was due to chip optimization, and yet, we are higher than the specs that were released before their "optimization process".

Bobsag, I hope you demand to see every inch of their business and let us know how many chips are currently "being tested" at their facility.