Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[DebitMe]

They aren't mining anything in their data center because they don't have a complete board yet, it won't be done until tomorrow for testing.  If you read the update, the manufacturer of the circuit board hadn't started it on time. 

I dunno why you don't just ask for a refund if you're so upset that you don't have your miner yet.

And this is the time that there is no way they can lie?  They obviously have test boards, who knows what they have and have gotten setup.

There are many reasons against getting a refund, maybe I already have?  Maybe I have paid with bitcoin and don't want to lose 60% of my investment, interest free, and get nothing out of it.

[DebitMe]

Thank you for your response, I respect your feelings if you do not feel like you have been lied to and are being cheated, unfortunately I, and many/most others, do not feel the same. 

Thanks again for your work Bobsag, still awaiting your response on whether your team can get my extra units ready with a standard ATX PSU, as I do not want to send these guys another dollar, and I imagine this could make you guys a lot of money as I can imagine more people would rather pay you than remit another dollar to BA.

[notbatman]

Feb 28 2014   3,815,723,799   21.92%   27,314,015 GH/s
Mar 13 2014   4,250,217,920   11.39%   30,424,245 GH/s
Mar 24 2014   5,006,860,589   17.80%   35,840,504 GH/s
Apr 05 2014   6,119,726,089   22.23%   43,806,706 GH/s
Apr 17 2014   6,978,842,650   14.04%   49,956,502 GH/s
Apr 29 2014   8,000,872,136   14.64%   57,272,474 GH/s

Estimated Next Difficulty: 8,797,951,295 (+9.96%)

Adjust time: After 527 Blocks, About 3.3 days

[notbatman]

AntMiner S1-0.5 BTC
Speed:    180 GH/S
Price:      0.5 BTC

[DebitMe]

but this first batch was entirely funded by our orders,

Where did you get this idea from? Please read again the initial announcement.

If our money did not fund your entire process, then why is there no money for refunds?  All of our money should be sitting in some account ready to be paid out, in fact, it should have been converted to fiat, and stuck into an account.  Yet, you have continuously said refunds will start shortly, and then pushed it back.

It has already been confirmed that you gambled with customer funds and left them in btc (unlike you said you would), and that is the real reason there have been no refunds, along with using it to pay for production, care to comment otherwise?

[DebitMe]

Also, I don't think they owe us any compensation. No where did they promise to give compensation if they were late. I'm happy with what they are giving us. I realize some people are not. Everybody can't be happy.

Actually they did...

Black Arrow promises to do its best to offer lower retail price than its competitors and guarantees that in the eventuality of a price decrease before shipment, all preorders will benefit of a proportional increase in hashing power. For this reason the customers who have been with us from the beginning will always receive the best deals.

I don't want to get in an argument that does no good, but they don't mention any compensation if they're late, just security for early buyers if they sell it at a lower price.

Yeah they did because they promised it at time of shipping, with others prices decreased and hash rates up the compensation comes from that.

Again, it says they will match ghs at time of shipping. Nothing about if they miss the shipping date, you'll get compensation. I was only referring to compensation for being late. Shipping hasn't happened yet, so wait until then to complain. Then you'll have reason to complain about a broken promise if they don't match.


EDIT: I don't have that much money in it (3 batch 1 X-1s) because that's what I could afford to lose if it all went to shit, which it had the strong possibility to do.

I don't know why people are arguing with you, they never made any promise to compensation, just to give the best value of gh/s for your dollar. No company is going to come out and say "guys ya know if we miss the date we tell you we are shipping by we are going to give you free shit" because that means that is possible that they will miss the fuckin shipping date. That is not how most businesses operate. Most people actually TRY to live up to the standards they set for them selves.

They don't putz around for a month setting up a random guys bitfury boards for him.

Guess you missed this one then:

Dear Customers,

We just want to let you know that we have not forgotten our promise and we will match in Ghash any competitor at the time of shipping. There is no point in discussing yet what extra hashing power you will receive as we have not started shipping yet.

ASIC price match announced in this thread is part of our promise.

Regards!

Didn't miss that. That does not say anything about them giving you something because they miss deadlines. All that says is exactly what I said, and exactly what the other guy said, is that they will not be charging you more per Gh/s than anyone.

In addition to the 1 unit for every 2 ordered, there should be some type of price reduction or something on the units to get them on par with what is available dollar per hash wise.

Either that, or you are correct, that there has really been NO compensation package for the delay, and that the additional units given are just to satisfy their "best price per hash" guarantee.

What does it matter what we call it.  Because they were late, there are other units on the market at better prices, and they owe us compensation for that...So indirectly, because they were late, they owe us more units.  Call it whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is, they will need to reevaluate and come to some conclusion about what we deserve, and if that falls short of their promises, they will probably lose a ton of business.  So call it what you want, it is the same thing.

[bobsag3]

http://www.coindesk.com/46k-spent-mining-hardware-happened-next/

Good job posting an article... 2 months old?

[notbatman]

Bitcoin Difficulty:   8,000,872,136
Estimated Next Difficulty:   8,943,758,354 (+11.78%)
Adjust time:   After 189 Blocks, About 1.1 days

[goozman96]

Bitcoin Difficulty:   8,000,872,136
Estimated Next Difficulty:   8,943,758,354 (+11.78%)
Adjust time:   After 189 Blocks, About 1.1 days

And what was the difficulty back on Feb 24th. when the BA gear was supposed to ship?

Feb 28 2014:   3,815,723,799 difficulty.

[DebitMe]

So will earlier units ship with parts that others won't ship with?  some people will be able to hit higher hashes with different X-1's?  what was the power consumption at 140 GH/s?  how do we know which units we get?

Is there a revised shipping schedule?

I still have no idea what power consumption/mining rate these will actually ship at.  And we do not know if the 150 watts is for the chip alone or everything in an X-1.

[DebitMe]

So will earlier units ship with parts that others won't ship with?  some people will be able to hit higher hashes with different X-1's?  what was the power consumption at 140 GH/s?  how do we know which units we get?

Is there a revised shipping schedule?

I still have no idea what power consumption/mining rate these will actually ship at.  And we do not know if the 150 watts is for the chip alone or everything in an X-1.

Very cloudy, unclear what the shipping schedule is for X-1s.  I'm just under the assumption the X-3 Batch 1 orders will get priority in assembling and shipping at this moment.  Not sure why X-1 buyers received these emails, as they look automated probably set to send out from the original ship date.

Yea it was all automated, and does not mean anything is shipping, they are just getting things ready for when they actually ship.  I have another question, BA says that if X-1's aren't shipped by I believe it is tomorrow, they will mine with their stock of X-3's.  I have given up asking how many they are keeping, as I assume they are filing the aforementioned data center with them, the one they were originally going to host our 25% in, so presumably, it is enough to make them a ton more money.  But, this question is about our X-1's.  Will we be getting the dispersed funds based on what a certain amount of hash would make in a 24 hour period?  If so, will that be at 100 GH/s, 120 GH/s, or the new high of 140 GH/s per X-1?  Or, will we be paid on what an X-3 actually hashes?  Will power costs be taken into effect and other management fees?  If we are being paid based on what it actually hashed will you guarantee that they will be running 24/7 until our units ship?

Just some questions that need to be answered.  Thanks

[goozman96]

I just received a shipping email from Minersource to:

Dear Customer,
Your order has been shipped
============================================================
Shipment Summary
============================================================
BAX1 Prospero X-1
============================================================
Thank you for your business.

did you get a tracking number? and whats your ordernr?

Order number doesn't mean anything. When they paid is a better question.

[goozman96]

I just got an email confirming my order. Nothing about shipping though

[DebitMe]

So will earlier units ship with parts that others won't ship with?  some people will be able to hit higher hashes with different X-1's?  what was the power consumption at 140 GH/s?  how do we know which units we get?

Is there a revised shipping schedule?

I still have no idea what power consumption/mining rate these will actually ship at.  And we do not know if the 150 watts is for the chip alone or everything in an X-1.

Very cloudy, unclear what the shipping schedule is for X-1s.  I'm just under the assumption the X-3 Batch 1 orders will get priority in assembling and shipping at this moment.  Not sure why X-1 buyers received these emails, as they look automated probably set to send out from the original ship date.

Yea it was all automated, and does not mean anything is shipping, they are just getting things ready for when they actually ship.  I have another question, BA says that if X-1's aren't shipped by I believe it is tomorrow, they will mine with their stock of X-3's.  I have given up asking how many they are keeping, as I assume they are filing the aforementioned data center with them, the one they were originally going to host our 25% in, so presumably, it is enough to make them a ton more money.  But, this question is about our X-1's.  Will we be getting the dispersed funds based on what a certain amount of hash would make in a 24 hour period?  If so, will that be at 100 GH/s, 120 GH/s, or the new high of 140 GH/s per X-1?  Or, will we be paid on what an X-3 actually hashes?  Will power costs be taken into effect and other management fees?  If we are being paid based on what it actually hashed will you guarantee that they will be running 24/7 until our units ship?

Just some questions that need to be answered.  Thanks

Can we get an answer on how this will work BA?

EDIT: Also, when can we expect to hear what the secret surprise you have been waiting to tell us is?

EDIT 2: Just had another difficulty jump before shipping started, and AsicMiner (RockMiner) is getting ready to have their first round of ASICS released that are under 1 W/GH.

[goozman96]

It's Tuesday in China now. Why haven't we received notice that the units have been received yet? They were supposed to be received on Monday.

[DebitMe]

https://www.kncminer.com/news

Just gonna put that there.

[DebitMe]

https://www.kncminer.com/news

Just gonna put that there.

http://ecointalk.net/topic/392-black-arrow-weekly-production-update/page-48#entry5135

HEHE I like your 9 FREAKIN TH/s post, made me lol

[ChuckBuck]

Whats the value of a X-3 batch one order now?

8 BTC ?

Basically the same price as the KNC Neptune, $5949.15 or 13.5 BTC, but 1 TH/s less in power:

www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/prospero-x-3.html

[notbatman]

What a giant clusterfuck.

[DebitMe]

 I guess the 6k+ I spent out of my own pocket to gather information at my own expense, I might as well go home.

You mean your own pockets, that are lined with the money from all the sales you took? Or do you do this for charity, because you just love to help people 

Are we really going to insult the only person fighting for us. I would bet that there wouldn't even be a compensation package if it wasn't for bobsag.  Look at his prices and BA's prices.  Do you see a big difference?  I am sure he makes a small amount on each order, but I doubt it is enough that he can throw 6k around willy nilly .  Bobsag has been straight and forward with everything, and even puts his business on the line as he is subject to US regulations, whereas BA is not.

Now I hope as much as anyone else that he is able to talk some sense into these guys, but insulting him is no way to do it.  He is our best hope of making our money back on these machines, and I for one will continue to support him, his work, and his business.

Thank you bobsag, please do not get discouraged and please continue to give us updates and fight for us.  You have proven to me that you are a good business man, and I respect that, and for that I support you as all a man has over the internet is his reputation and you sir have certainly earned a good one in my book.