Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[notbatman]

Bitcoin Difficulty:   23,844,670,039
Estimated Next Difficulty:   28,744,274,375 (+20.55%)
Adjust time:   After 1211 Blocks, About 7.5 days
Hashrate(?):   189,880,137 GH/s

Looking into my crystal ball here I can see the X3 will be making $10/day in a weeks time. In 5 weeks the X3 will make $0/day. 10¢/kWh power costs considered.

If my X3 ships "next week" and takes a week to arrive I'll be able to mine for 3 weeks and make $140.

Surely, you didn't order because what was stated in the OP, ignoring my, among others, to not deal with Alex Sovu now did you?

At today’s Bitcoin price and network hashing rate, X-1 would return $682 in 15 days and X-3 would return $13845 in 15 days (1).

Unfortunately I didn't become a forum member until I got the email from BA at the end of January that stated I wouldn't be getting my miner.

I had read some forum posts before I purchased but they were people talking about their BA Bitfury miners; I was confident the hardware was real.

[greenlion]

Is this address from the website remotely legit?

5A03, Building 1, Huangduguangchang, Yitian Road, Futian District, Shenzhen, Guangdong, P. R. China, Postcode: 518048

Reason I'm asking is that I'm going to send out a batch of complaints shortly to every relevant jurisdiction, and it has come to my attention that Shenzhen has had some pretty strong consumer protection laws since early 2013, and if they receive a significant number of complaints, the city itself has the authority to bring suit against them in the interest of consumers. Shenzhen is not some third-world backwater with no consequences.

There might even be some delightful surprises, for example wouldn't it be a shocker if say we were to find out that this operation isn't even properly licensed?

[SimonBeCoinin]

Is this address from the website remotely legit?
5A03, Building 1, Huangduguangchang, Yitian Road, Futian District, Shenzhen, Guangdong, P. R. China, Postcode: 518048

Reason I'm asking is that I'm going to send out a batch of complaints shortly to every relevant jurisdiction, and it has come to my attention that Shenzhen has had some pretty strong consumer protection laws since early 2013, and if they receive a significant number of complaints, the city itself has the authority to bring suit against them in the interest of consumers. Shenzhen is not some third-world backwater with no consequences.

There might even be some delightful surprises, for example wouldn't it be a shocker if say we were to find out that this operation isn't even properly licensed?

I think it probably is correct, but please keep us posted if you come up with solid info.

[SimonBeCoinin]

People should also realize that they can likely file in small claims court in their own state against minersource, or black arrow for that matter.

a judgement against BA would be difficult to enforce, probably, although one against MS is a slightly different story, I would think think.

Are they going to fly their lawyers in?  Maybe.  Then again maybe not.  Depending on what they owe people it's an option I'd look into if I'd bought from them and they were giving me the runaround.


http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter9-2.html

[DebitMe]

I just got an invoice from, "Bitmine Tech" but it was from Mike@bitmaintech.com.  All it says is "confirmation 18XX."  There was also an attachment that is a .jar file.  Is this possibly a virus because my email address was sold to someone?

[DebitMe]

I just got an invoice from, "Bitmine Tech" but it was from Mike@bitmaintech.com.  All it says is "confirmation 18XX."  There was also an attachment that is a .jar file.  Is this possibly a virus because my email address was sold to someone?

Yes, don't open.

My thoughts exactly.  Forwarded onto bitmaintech for their reference since it seems that someone is sending emails disguised as coming from them.

But, I am not sure how that particular email address would have gotten out besides BA selling it.  I do use it elsewhere, so I cannot definitely say it was them, but anywhere else I use it is trusted and not a complete fuck up like BA is.  Looks like they are still selling private information.

[DebitMe]

Shit, they keep coming, just got another one from someone ending in justhack.net.  Be careful, who knows where these come from but they are probably virus containing emails.

[notbatman]

My X1 arrived today (technically yesterday, as it's now past midnight)...

Paydate was December 3rd (ordered through minersource)


Income-wise / on the bitcoin side of things [ and only because of the manufacturing / shipping delays ] I was somewhat disappointed that it performs "merely as promised..." so I really can't do much to improve that, though once I got everything configured right I spent some time hacking around and loading flappy bird onto it.

Plays great!

We need a pic 

[SimonBeCoinin]

I'll bet they renege on that promise, too - just like they're refusing refunds that they promised in March and April. They're out of money, because they spent it all to buy parts.

They'll probably give you 10% off their new scrypt miner, though, whose development they financed with our pre-order money.

I don't believe they're out of money.

They had issues with components, fine.  But that does not assure huge cost over-runs, unless they were stupid enough to buy all the backplanes, ASICS etc. without testing them, then that's their problem. 

They said repeatedly that they funded most of this from sources other than pre-orders anyhow.

Based on the history of Alex Sovu, I believe they are simply making every attempt to keep the money, not that they do not have it.

Money could also have been paid out to investors already and that's why they are out of money.  That's their problem if that's the case, which they are trying to make ours.

Who knows where the money went, but I'm not buying their story that it all went to build parts.

Could they refund everyone that wants a refund at this point?  Probably not, because that would be everyone, but there is money there, I have no doubt.  They know if they start issuing refunds there will be a run on the bank so they're trying to screw everyone instead.

[Ren13B]

Just got my 2 X1's from MS and one is hashing fine and the other won't hash at all.  Cgminer won't start and says "cgminer slow to respond.  Possible pool problem?".  I know it's not the pool configuration and I've dropped the speed on it with no change.  I would open it up but MS puts a sticker on it that voids the warranty if broken.  Sick and tired of this shit.

[SimonBeCoinin]

well they must have gotten my complaint from the Hong Kong consumer council. 

locked out of my account.  resetting the password does no good.

I already copied out the support dialogue, but nice try.  each and every snippet going back months, packaged in a neat little pdf file.

putzes.

[SimonBeCoinin]

time is btc and everybody wants some, maybe someone will
sell me a 1 month summary for 0.5 btc ??

X1s are trickling out to customers who ordered from BA, at about the rate of 1 per day. X3s don't appear to be shipping at all yet.

that pretty much sums it up.

both systems are trickling out, there is seemingly no order to shipments relative to your payment or shipment date, no further update on compensation or when that will ship, they've decided to try to fuck everyone that they had formerly promised refunds to.

So, nothing has changed, basically.

[DebitMe]

nothing changed !!

what a shitty situation
our miners will do nothing when we 'll receive it
BA stoled our BTC and use our money for them
they should at least swap our sha 256 for scrypt miners
that's where mainly our money went

I understand your frustration as BA is a bunch of liars and thieves, but do you really want to BFL the situation and trade in a worthless product for a next gen worthless product?  They haven't even taped out their scrypt ASIC chip yet, just think of all the problems that happened between tape out of their SHA chip to now.  Don't believe their lies about being more competent now and knowing the business, BFL said the same exact thing and it didn't work out to well for them.

Add in the fact that their product page says that they have gone for a more complex chip than their SHA chip and that it will be able to do more things and you quickly realize that the scrypt en devour will come out even worse than their SHA en devour, which is saying something.

They will also never upgrade your order, they know their current miners are worthless/useless and if they allowed you to upgrade, they would be stuck with it, and they don't even want their own shit.  If they did, would there really be a problem with refunding people?  If they knew they could stick that X-3 in their own farm and make tons of money, they would gladly hand you your money back, so the only explanation is either they know its worthless and don't want it (AKA they scammed everyone) or they have been mining this whole time, and have no more room for more miners so they might as well send it to you anyway (AKA they scammed everyone).

I am sorry you missed so much and then people were rude to you, I am sure they were just frustrated (as most are) and took it out on you instead of rightfully on BA.  But you haven't really missed much.  They launched a new product that is about average on power use and speed by either now or next month, and are expecting more money to fund it and have it delivered by December (yea right!).  Units have been trickling out, and any unit that does get delivered pretty much instantly goes up on Ebay or something similar.  BA gets on the forums just to insult customers and make false accusations at people and claims to be incredibly busy, but they have hours each day to delete posts and moderate forums.  The lying and blaming customers continues instead of taking blame for their fuck up.  And recent developments now also include selling customer data to competitors and who knows who else.  Right now only email lists are confirmed, but I doubt it would surprise many if passwords and usernames as well as addresses were also sold or made available.

[notbatman]

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/160ghash-mining-solution.html

"912 Ghash Bitfury Mining solution"

"$1250"

"Availability: In Stock"

"USED, Non-refundable"

[OgNasty]

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/160ghash-mining-solution.html

"912 Ghash Bitfury Mining solution"

"$1250"

"Availability: In Stock"

"USED, Non-refundable"

And at ~50W per board you're looking at nearly 1200W for just over 900GH.

On the plus side, it shows that they've filled their datacenter capacity to the point where they have to sell off their old mining equipment.  I got an email response stating that they are currently mining with X3s for "testing" purposes and that testing is taking longer than expected, which is why they aren't providing the 5 days of free hosting as promised.

So now that they're admitting they have the machines and are mining with them, it shouldn't be too long before they actually start shipping to direct customers who ordered in 2013 like myself.  This is better than nothing, maybe?  A refund of my 0% loan for a year would be the best option, but they've already made it clear from denying my refund requests for the last 6 months that they will not be parting with a penny and instead will continue lying and stealing from customers.  I strongly suggest avoiding them, minersource, and the "new company" that is selling their miners under a different name with a different form factor.  In any event, as suggested, these miners will be unprofitable very soon so they will probably step up their shipping with the next difficulty adjustment.  Factor in another difficultly adjustment for packing/shipping time and we should get these miners just in time to set them up to heat our houses for the remainder of the summer and only lose a few dollars per month operating them after cooling.  However, you'll be able to sit in a loud 90 degree room and play flappy birds on a tiny screen so it's $7,000 well spent.

[DebitMe]

I understand your frustration as BA is a bunch of liars and thieves, but do you really want to BFL the situation and trade in a worthless product for a next gen worthless product?  They haven't even taped out their scrypt ASIC chip yet, just think of all the problems that happened between tape out of their SHA chip to now.  Don't believe their lies about being more competent now and knowing the business, BFL said the same exact thing and it didn't work out to well for them.

Add in the fact that their product page says that they have gone for a more complex chip than their SHA chip and that it will be able to do more things and you quickly realize that the scrypt en devour will come out even worse than their SHA en devour, which is saying something.

They will also never upgrade your order, they know their current miners are worthless/useless and if they allowed you to upgrade, they would be stuck with it, and they don't even want their own shit.  If they did, would there really be a problem with refunding people?  If they knew they could stick that X-3 in their own farm and make tons of money, they would gladly hand you your money back, so the only explanation is either they know its worthless and don't want it (AKA they scammed everyone) or they have been mining this whole time, and have no more room for more miners so they might as well send it to you anyway (AKA they scammed everyone).

I am sorry you missed so much and then people were rude to you, I am sure they were just frustrated (as most are) and took it out on you instead of rightfully on BA.  But you haven't really missed much.  They launched a new product that is about average on power use and speed by either now or next month, and are expecting more money to fund it and have it delivered by December (yea right!).  Units have been trickling out, and any unit that does get delivered pretty much instantly goes up on Ebay or something similar.  BA gets on the forums just to insult customers and make false accusations at people and claims to be incredibly busy, but they have hours each day to delete posts and moderate forums.  The lying and blaming customers continues instead of taking blame for their fuck up.  And recent developments now also include selling customer data to competitors and who knows who else.  Right now only email lists are confirmed, but I doubt it would surprise many if passwords and usernames as well as addresses were also sold or made available.

[DebitMe]

They already are. It says right on their website to contact them for a price.  They are selling pre taped out scrypt ASICS.  What a joke!

People, look at the scrypt scene.  The hashrate is exploding with all the new ASICS coming on the market.  They have marginally better power numbers for miners claiming to be out in December, than whats available today.  By the time they actually ship, these will be as worthless as their other product lines.

By the way, there is no way to actually contact them.  Clicking the blue link on the product page just reloads the page.  And going to their contact us doesn't have an option for scrypt.  Real professional launch of your new product BA.

[DebitMe]

Hopefully everyone remembers what has happened since the, "tape out" of the SHA-256 chip.  Remember how they were on track all the while for February delivery.  Then, with only a month left until shipping, decided to break the news that tape out hadn't even happened yet, although before claiming that they were still on track?

Remember how they said how quick of a process it would be once the chips were received, and now, months later, they have barely made a dent in their shipping queue?

Remember how they have said multiple lies on various subjects and continue to lie and defraud customers by mining with customer equipment?

If you order a scrypt miner from BA, I can guarantee 95% that it will not be available in December.  I will have no remorse for you and your lost money, and instead will laugh at you because you are obviously ignorant.  If you even think about ordering from a company that will not release the full chip specs, you deserve to lose your money!

They still haven't released their specs of the SHA-256 chip yet.  Bobsag had to do that, and they never commented on those stats or about the chip frequency.

Also remember how they completely missed their power targets between tape out and final chip production.  They also completely missed on almost every other aspect of the miner, or they have been self mining and have been lying about messing things up, either way do you want to do business with a lying company or an incompetent one?  Come to think of it, they lied and are incompetent.

I am willing to put up 1 btc into a trusted escrow against BA that a functioning scrypt miner will not be shipped by the end of December from them.  The chip must meet power specs and hashrate by shipping time as well, which means they must disclose this information to me for the bet to be valid.  If they are unwilling to take this bet, they obviously do not stand behind their product and are just trying to steal more from the community.

BA, you have really learned from BFL and have overtaken them on many regards.  It is time to die, you have lost too much reputation and are too scumy to continue operations.  Pack it up and die you sons of bitches.

[DebitMe]

Because they are a giant scam and know there products are worthless now which is why they would rather illegally refuse your refund and instead opt to send you their out of date crap.

As to what you can do, start complaining to government bodies, there is a thread somewhere that has the pertinent bodies to address complaints to, and hope they do something.


Your scam is unraveling BA, whats your next move you lying scamming pieces of filth?  Hows that investigation into the email list going Alex Sovu?  Getting anywhere or was it pushed under the rug because you know you sold it you trash scumbag?

[DebitMe]

don't forget that they are doing it with compensation!  first they told compensation, then they redid it, then they said when shipping started they would relook, then nothing changed effectively screwing everyone, then it was, well lets see when shipping is done.  all the while, they were supposed to ship compensation with orders, then in the same batch, now, once shipping is done, compensation will start. it has been pushed back and back and back, meanwhile becoming more and more worthless by the day, just like their joke of a product. I wouldn't be surprised if they never shit out one unit of compensation for anyone.  mark my words, it seems like it more and more everyday, they will not ship any comp units, and if they do, they will be worthless and used for 3 months plus however much longer it takes from today.