Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Pentax]

30 pages gone. 

doing some serious truth-concealment today eh?

everything critical away?

I know.  that's a difficult job.

more likely a consumer agency or lawyer finally found them, or they've got a fish on for an investor in their new chips and they don't want any of those people knowing the truth of this situation.

they're trying to hide things for a reason.  they've deleted pages several times, but not like this.

[Pentax]

wire fraud:


18 U.S.C. § 1343 provides:

Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.[2]


that type of stuff is handled by the FBI, who can be contacted here:

http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/when

[Pentax]

From ecointalk:


"All,
 
Anyone interested in joining a legal action case:
 
Please send to bitcz@outlook.com the following details:
 
Order date
Rough figure on how much was spent ( please do not supply order numbers yet..this will be a job for the legals to obtain directly from you )
Contact details ( Email will suffice at this stage )
Brief paragraph outlining steps you have taken to resolve issue with BA directly ( i.e. direct communication, complaint to consumer council, local better business bureau, local state senator etc.. )
Expected resolution that would satisfy you ( i.e. full refund, delivery of goods etc )
 
I just want to gather enough information to show to the legal team what level of commitment they will have to undertake to start this rolling and how many people will be involved. From this they can gauge how large the suit will be against BA and what it will entail.
 
Bticz

[Pentax]

one of my good buddy BlackArrow's favorites, I'm sure.

Good luck finding someone to scam out of hundreds of thousands of dollars to fund your next gen asics.  the only reason you don't have the money to develop your next gen asic is because you guys fucked up this generation so badly that your ass is in the toilet.

You don't have the 'proven track record' you are trying to sell to people, which seems to be exactly what you are trying to sell people.

You do have a track record.  And it sucks.  your miners are late and obsolete, they are not competitive in the marketplace and your engineering team has designed miners that start on fire.

more important to investors, everyone that has invested their money with you as a pre-order customer has lost their ass. 

But wait, there's more!

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/14nm-bitcoin-asic-announcement.html

So ... do we get some free units of these for our trouble??  We paid "helped" to pay for this development after all.....

Haha what a fuckin' joke!

"Black Arrow Ltd has already a proven track record in successfully manufacture Bitcoin mining hardware at extremely competitive prices using shorter full lifecycle than their competition without compromising the top quality required the highly-competitive niche market."

Are these dicks on the same planet as us? Successfully manufacture? Extremely competitive prices? Just piss off and go bankrupt already you criminals
[/quote]


proven track record?   of what, exactly?  their miners are now 6 months late because they had one issue after the next, they're no longer price competitive at time of delivery, don't have a snowball's chance in hell of ROI'ing, and they're starting on fire.


what they have proven is that they will tell people anything to get their money and then break those promises when it suits them.

remember this one?

If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders?  Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways.  The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.

Customers who pre-order and pay now have 25% discount. Our promise is that we will ensure that customers who preorder now will always get a better deal than customers who order later.

At the same time we promise that our prices will be below market price at the time we ship.

This means that customers that preorder now will have considerable lower market prices by the time that we ship which puts them in advantage towards anybody else.

Unless Bitcoin mining stops because it becomes unprofitable for everybody else in February, our customers WILL make profit.

or this?

After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow it's starting to feel like the companies will promise you anything and everything just to get your money.  Even if it makes no sense.  What's the point of them getting capital now if they guarantee to drop the prices to whatever the market price will be in the future and have to return most of that capital?  I don't mind gambling but when the gamble is just some vague guarantee promise that isn't rooted in reality that's just one more hurdle to overcome besides the fact of sending non refundable to btc to some outfit in china and hoping for the best on a proposition that's many months away.

Everybody until now sold you hardware that they knew that you're going to loose money because 1 month later they announced something faster at a better price.
We are guaranteeing that this won't happen with us: If we drop the price you'll get even faster hardware, keeping you in front of everybody else.

or this?

I'd like to make sure I understand what you are guaranteeing.  You are saying that if I preorder now I am guaranteed a price 25% below market price.  How will market price be defined? 

Yes, you are guaranteed to get a price 25% below the market price ($/ghash) at the time of shipment.
And yes, we will keep our prices below every other company.

Bottom line is, whoever trusts us now, we promise that will help them to mine profitably after February as well. If you keep supporting other companies who have ripped you off until now, you'll barely get your ROI back.

[Pentax]

This death threat caused the ban on the website:

Where's the death threat? He wishes you were dead (caused by your own incendiary X3s) but I see no threat.

There was danger of death in there.  I almost died laughing.

If that was a death threat why don't you head on down to the police department and file a report?

While you're there you can file a report on the data theft, which you seemingly have not done in over a month.  Why is that?  You sold our data didn't you, or, more likely, are affiliated with Xbtec.  Why else would a company not prosecute a competitor that had stolen it's customer database. 

Is that why zipkin came to see you.  You guys are supposedly competitors.  Scammers unite for the next con job?  Did you guys line up to blow him as the guy that has managed so far to avoid jail while screwing his customers brains out?

[Pentax]

The incredibly shrinking thread phenomenon continues.  Apparently Mr. Poopy Pants, aka BlackArrow is throwing a tantrum.  Deleting most, if not all, of the posts I've made to this thread.  Poor little Mr. Poopy Pants, his miners are burning, as is his company.  I'll just keep reposting the ones that are relevant to the discussion as it is today.  and maybe some of the older ones.  thanks for organizing it all so nicely for me, BlackArrow.

Why is Black Arrow not working with the Consumer Council if BA is operating within the law, BlackArrow?  How long do you think they're going to take your shit?  They're not a bunch of inexperienced kids that don't know what to do, they are a group of people that do nothing but deal with assholes just like you and your unethical company.



A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Unfortunate. Just requested refund on second of two orders (X3s) due to multiple BA failures. Sent some info to Bitcz, we will see what materializes there.

I will probably do the HKCC thing this weekend. I guess I am at the point where things suck so bad (safety issues on top of everything else? C'mon) it just doesn't matter. This has gone beyond the pale in so many ways.

Cant believe they made a special "Asshole detected" page.

yep.  if you do file with HKCC include the following:

hey request some documents and need to establish that this is a Hong Kong registered company  before they will agree to pick it up, therefore:

Send the annual report http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf

along with the documents they have requested.  Those documents are:

1.  The invoice showing you paid
2   your bank or payment records showing the payment
3.  any e-mail or support discussions  you've had
4.  The annual report referenced above.

Here's the link to file a complaint if you decide you want to do that.

https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en

Also indicate that their TOS indicates Hong Kong law and paste that in to your message.

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/terms-and-conditions-en.html#purchase

15.2 Applicable law and dispute resolution
16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC.




probably point out the fire issue as a reason for just wanting out of this mess.  I don't know if everyone has done that.   it may help get this a higher priority.

anyhow, good luck.

[Pentax]

http://ecointalk.net/topic/1348-my-x3-caught-fire/
 
"... there was a loud bang sound, and then i could see one of the X3's was on fire. ..."

good grief.

they should ship with a fire extinguisher mounted on the side or maybe smoke alarm. 

maybe that's the surprise.  'comes with free firefighting gear'  'teach your children about bitcoin mining AND how to run from a burning building.'

 


when they were having problems shipping because boards were popping out I wondered about the overall quality of the design.  a group that can't design something that doesn't fly apart during shipping and can't think ahead well enough to test the packaging.  what else could they have missed.   plenty, it seems.

now they're catching on fire.  hell, even I didn't expect that one.

[Pentax]

an hour ago there were 420 pages in this thread.  now there are 373 and falling.

that's a lot of pages gone.  why is that blackarrow?

have the authorities finally found you?  maybe an investor is on the hook and you're hoping to conceal the truth of your operation?

[Pentax]

30 pages gone. 

doing some serious truth-concealment today eh?

everything critical away?

This is most likely a pre-emptive measure because they understand now that they're officially on the radar of consumer protection agencies.

yep, you can't send firebombs for use in people's homes and simply continue to fly under the radar.

[goozman96]

Can't even paste the whole thing because it goes over the character limit

https://bitcointalk.org/modlog.php

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Delete reply: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s in topic #294197 by member #24442
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[goozman96]

Is it possible to petition the mods for the posts to be reinstated and the thread locked for future reference, given the epic incompetency and legal liability BA are now facing.

I tried reporting Blackarrow and explained to the mods that he's deleting all the posts and remove his ability to self-moderate the thread. Everyone else should report it too to get the mods attention.

[greenlion]

I've decided that you guys are welcome to keep my money, as long as Alex Sovu uses it to visit a psychiatrist.

[SimonBeCoinin]

could be this:

from ecointalk:

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/black-arrow-minion-14nm-asic-tape-out-setdecember-2014/#post-41680


from the article:
"In a world where scam ASIC manufacturers are the norm, how do you show the world that you mean business and will work to release profitable equipment to your customers?

We are not aware of any scam ASIC manufacturers so we cannot comment on this. "



they're not aware of any scam ASIC manufacturers?  good lord.  the whole industry is as dirty as a pig stye after a hurricane.

[SimonBeCoinin]

they deleted this for some reason.  pretty harmless post.  wtf black arrow?

well, it means they don't like it, which means I'll post it 1000 times if I have to.  fuck these people and their lying, illegal bullshit.

could be this:

from ecointalk:

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/black-arrow-minion-14nm-asic-tape-out-setdecember-2014/#post-41680


from the article:
"In a world where scam ASIC manufacturers are the norm, how do you show the world that you mean business and will work to release profitable equipment to your customers?

We are not aware of any scam ASIC manufacturers so we cannot comment on this. "



they're not aware of any scam ASIC manufacturers?  good lord.  the whole industry is as dirty as a pig stye after a hurricane.

[breakingcode]

I would be happy to.  Here you go


http://imgur.com/O7z3cuC

This death threat caused the ban on the website:

Actually that's not a death threat, that's "wishing an ironic death of your own making" on you.
Not hard to see why you confuse "Next year" with "next week" when you don't even comprehend what the basic meaning of the word "threat" is.

Of course his statement also assumes that your engineers could figure out putting the power plug into the wall socket, and that's a pretty huge leap of logic.

[56k]

dosent make any sence, why to delete old post`? I can understand that they would delete those pics of the X3 blowing up in the face of someone, that would be nasty if people found out that the x3 is a dead trap, but old inocent post?    I think that BA will not make too many miners ever again.

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/black-arrow-minion-14nm-asic-tape-out-setdecember-2014/#post-41692

read the article for a laugh and you'll see they don't want to touch another full miner build cause they know they can't do it successfully ,quickly and safely.

Hows that Dogie rating looking rite about now lol pathetic .

[DebitMe]

BlackArrow is a competing ASIC manufacturer in the same way that a high school baseball team has a chance against the New York Yankees.  This sorry excuse of people have scammed over and over and are constantly looking for new ways to take people's money.
Look at Alex Sovu's history of mail fraud.  You can find many counts where he has ran into trouble with the law, and Blackarrow is no different.  Before Bitcoin, they sold card readers that were designed to steal credit card info.  There are even more counts of this happening than legitimate uses for this product.
BlackArrow then decided that the perfect evolution for their company is to scam in the bitcoin world (and why not?  With no charge back risk and being tucked safely away in China, you can't be touched (or so he thinks))  So they designed boards based off of the Bitfury chip.  These boards were made with inferior quality products (which was contrary to what they said they would use) and many parts had to be replaced, by a third party, on the customers dime, because they would catch fire. (remember the fire issue, because it pops back up later.)
So after scamming, lying, and cheating on the bitfury boards, they decided to create their own chip.  They used the BFL excuse that they had learned invaluable lessons from their previou experience, and that there was no way they would miss their February deadline, and in fact, told customers up until early February that they were not only on time, but ahead of schedule, knowing full well that they had not taped out the chip yet.
So, after releasing that they would be delayed by 2 months, and telling everyone that they would compensate accordingly, they finally received the chips in early June and said that they would be able to get working out the door in the next few days.  At this point, it gets kind of repetitive, as they miss the new target dates of shipping units, and start to just push that date back further and further, attributing the reason for the delay to anything but themselves and their own incompetence.
So fast forward a few months and it is now September.  At this point, a few units have shipped and a few units have caught fire at customers homes.  BA has now told everyone that they must not run their miners, until a fix has been found, which has been at least a week now with no word on the matter.  Looking back at the history of BlackArrow is a long history of lies and deception towards customers, as well as insults thrown at customers and punishing them by not shipping units if they complained at all.
To their credit, they did decide to give some compensation to customers in the form of more hashpower, not enough to make up what was lost, in fact, barely a drop in a 500 gallon bucket, but these units were supposed to ship with customers orders, which has now been moved, just like refunds, to when all original orders are shipped, and they refuse to tell when that may be.  So, extra units are coming, but once they arrive, it will cost more to run them then they will make in bitcoin,  People who were told they were getting refunds are also now getting units shipped unknowingly to them, and having them arrive in lieu of  refund.
BA said they completed their data center months ago, and there is strong evidence from insiders who claim that BA has been mining with the equipment before shipping to customers.  BA has denied this statement, but the evidence is mounting against them, and is very hard to believe that they would rather let that datacenter sit idle next to their mounds of unused chips.  I think we all know and agree that they are self mining with customer equipment.
Now, BA states that they will release a 14nm chip.  Out of all of BA's lies and deceptions, this one probably takes the cake.  How anyone would believe it possible for them to acquire a foundry for a 14nm chip when they will be considered new on the market for chip makers such as Intel is laughable.  There is no possible way they will get foundry time or design time for this, or their scrypt, chip.
Lets imagine for example that they do get this chipped produced, whose going to buy it?  They have screwed over every customer they have, and then laugh at them in the process, while making additional revenue and selling customer information to third parties.
This company is such a sick joke that allowing them to continue or giving them exposure like this is a terrible thing to do.  To quote one of the phrases that they have said to customers, "Asshole Detected".

[Pentax]

wire fraud:


18 U.S.C. § 1343 provides:

Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.[2]


that type of stuff is handled by the FBI, who can be contacted here:

http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/when

[Pentax]

if you do file with HKCC include the following:

hey request some documents and need to establish that this is a Hong Kong registered company  before they will agree to pick it up, therefore:

Send the annual report http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf

along with the documents they have requested.  Those documents are:

1.  The invoice showing you paid
2   your bank or payment records showing the payment
3.  any e-mail or support discussions  you've had
4.  The annual report referenced above.

Here's the link to file a complaint if you decide you want to do that.

https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en

Also indicate that their TOS indicates Hong Kong law and paste that in to your message.

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/terms-and-conditions-en.html#purchase

15.2 Applicable law and dispute resolution
16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC.




probably point out the fire issue as a reason for just wanting out of this mess.  I don't know if everyone has done that.   it may help get this a higher priority.

[notbatman]

nm