KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2437 blocks

[wmabern]

Use both. You are going to need to sell some bitcoin to pay for expenses. So mine directly to coinbase. After all your expenses are paid. Move what you want to save once a month to the trezor.

1)  Not everyone pays their mining expenses by selling mined coins.

2)  This doesn't address the anonymity issue.  I'm sure I'm not the only one here that doesn't want the government to know how much btc I hold.  It's none of their business.  If, and when, I choose to use/trade/sell -- then I'll route it through a kyc account -- and they'll know about it.  In my country (the U.S.) -- that is the only time there is a tax implication.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a KYC Account?
Thanks for enlightening me! 

[tournamentdan]

Use both. You are going to need to sell some bitcoin to pay for expenses. So mine directly to coinbase. After all your expenses are paid. Move what you want to save once a month to the trezor.

1)  Not everyone pays their mining expenses by selling mined coins.

2)  This doesn't address the anonymity issue.  I'm sure I'm not the only one here that doesn't want the government to know how much btc I hold.  It's none of their business.  If, and when, I choose to use/trade/sell -- then I'll route it through a kyc account -- and they'll know about it.  In my country (the U.S.) -- that is the only time there is a tax implication.

1) I understand. Some people have theirs hosted. And some host their own. If you host your own. Most likely you will need to sell bitcoin to pay for electric and Internet.

2) For me. I am running my bitcoin mining operation as a business. So I am not hiding any money from the government. I would like to continue to grow my business and do not need to have anything come back to bite me in the ass.

[bitsink]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a KYC Account?
Thanks for enlightening me! 

It is like a KFC account only better

KYC / AML = Know Your Customer / Anti Money Laundering - its an excuse by banks and regulators for financial surveillance in the name of counter terrorism. Coinbase are known to be excessively compliant.

[firetreeactual]

I really don't get the need for lots of daily payouts.  A payout ever day, even every few days or so is fine.  Do people really need 10 small payouts a day?  I would rather get 1 large payout a day than 10 small ones.  If nothing else, it makes less work for the accounting.  

Agreed. I do not see any point for it, other than extreme insecurity perhaps. If one does not trust the pool operator to reasonably protect/hold the rewards until adequately verified, one should probably mine elsewhere...methinks. Additionally, it puts the miners' accounting load on Kano, where it doesn't belong...again, methinks.

But then, I've been occasionally told I think too much...methinks.  

Sorry, but do you have multiple personality disorder today? That first paragraph first agrees with larger payments, then the second part disagrees with larger payments, because larger consolidated payments mean the pool operator running a wallet that holds those payments until they are ready to payout.

So do you agree with one large consolidated payment a day or not? I think for this pool it works fine without, all you need to do is have a mining wallet and a cold, or spending wallet, the mining income goes into the mining wallet, and every week or so you send the coins from your mining wallet into your cold wallet, which consolidates the dust for you. Then when you want to trade or buy something with your coin you do so from the cold/spending wallet and, if you use a reasonable sized transaction fee, that spend will go through alot faster than if you sent it from your mining wallet.

Interesting. I said nothing about size of payments. It was about frequency. I also said nothing about consolidation. However, I do have an opinion on it...I don't like it. I do my accounting traceable to the block, and I'd like to keep it that way.

[wmabern]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a KYC Account?
Thanks for enlightening me! 

It is like a KFC account only better

KYC / AML = Know Your Customer / Anti Money Laundering - its an excuse by banks and regulators for financial surveillance in the name of counter terrorism. Coinbase are known to be excessively compliant.

Thanks for the explanation. I DO have a Coinbase account, but only use it to sell and transfer coins into my bank account. Otherwise my coins sit in my Core wallet until the end of each month.

What other exchanges without so much scrutiny would you recommend?

Thanks for the info!

[bitsink]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a KYC Account?
Thanks for enlightening me! 

It is like a KFC account only better

KYC / AML = Know Your Customer / Anti Money Laundering - its an excuse by banks and regulators for financial surveillance in the name of counter terrorism. Coinbase are known to be excessively compliant.

Thanks for the explanation. I DO have a Coinbase account, but only use it to sell and transfer coins into my bank account. Otherwise my coins sit in my Core wallet until the end of each month.

What other exchanges without so much scrutiny would you recommend?

Thanks for the info!

If you must ask any: p2p/decentralized exchange which cannot be regulated as much; localbitcoins or bitsquare. Be careful if you are new to LB, you may easily become a victim of a scam. You need to do your own due diligence on each trade / trader.

[kano]

...
I took a stab at adding some more language for the homepage below.
Kano: is this helpful?
...

Well, firstly, you did look at the Help->Payouts page right?
https://kano.is/index.php?k=payout

Secondly, the aim of the front page is not to be 5 pages long, people scrolling down to get to the configuration information.
It's a very brief opening section that links to the Help->Payouts menu page with the PPLNS link, followed by how to configure your miners.

Yes I've considered adding a Help->FAQ page before, but it always ends up being a page of explaining too much about Bitcoin, which is all over the net, and not much else.
Most questions these days tend to be answered by "Read the last section of the Help->Payouts page"
I guess I could move that up higher on the Help->Payouts page.

Also, I don't think there's any point comparing the pool to other pools in the start of the front page of the web site ...
Especially not with "In theory"

I'll look at updating some of the Help->Payouts page some time soon.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Not sure how dated this might be but you can always provide a link to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools
Pretty much covers all the relevant bits. Yesssss, it *is* a comparison but at least someone else did the legwork and explanations so you can keep things short and sweet on your site

[kano]

Not sure how dated this might be but you can always provide a link to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools
Pretty much covers all the relevant bits. Yesssss, it *is* a comparison but at least someone else did the legwork and explanations so you can keep things short and sweet on your site

Heh, yeah I update that page every so often also (even recently)
The problem with linking to the bitcoin wiki is that it is under the control of LukeJr
He basically decides what goes in there and that's not based on "fact", it's based on "his opinion".
Multiple times I've put some information about cgminer in there and he's repeatedly deleted the content, coz he prefers his own 'version' of reality.
The guys who actually run the wiki would be best described as LukeJr lackeys.
So I avoid linking to it.

[kano]

I think there may be a problem with the pool's time zone, at least for the shift timing. The shift timing states that it is in UTC, but:

The latest shift - 825j5 yuno - just started a couple of minutes ago and it states that it started at Mar‑12 17:08:27 (UTC). The time now is 18:15 UTC. It seems that the Pool is in UTC-1h timezone instead in UTC?

Shifts appear, are created, ~13 minutes after they finish.
The start isn't the unknown factor, it's the finish point that it has to wait until all the workinfo is complete/confirmed then it works out the shift.

Edit: and you can see that the shifts are all OK by the fact they all have a Start and Length, so the start of any following shift will be Start+Length

The Server time doesn't affect the web display at all, it uses UTC for all displayed time since people all over the planet look at it.
Internally, CKDB treats everything as UTC and the code all deals with converting the Postgresql dates to and from UTC.

Each web page, at the bottom right in small letters, shows what your browser thinks is your local time, and at the bottom left, what the server thinks is UTC time.
That also effectively shows any discrepancy between your computer and the actual time, after you subtract the network and processing delay for the page request.

Not that it is very important - the pool obviously functions, but this still seems off: The bottom left time on the webpage (UTC time) is generally 1-2h ahead of the (last shift start time), which if a shift is 50min (lets say 1h to keep it simple), should be only 0-1h ahead.

Check your clocks
The lower left on the web page is always correct

Shifts show "Start Time", so the last shift "Start Time" will be between "Length"+13 and 2xMax+13 minutes behind the UTC time.
2xMax = ~100

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Gotcha.
Didn't look/know who runs it and ja I fully understand given the History between you 2

[Biffa]

I really don't get the need for lots of daily payouts.  A payout ever day, even every few days or so is fine.  Do people really need 10 small payouts a day?  I would rather get 1 large payout a day than 10 small ones.  If nothing else, it makes less work for the accounting.  

Agreed. I do not see any point for it, other than extreme insecurity perhaps. If one does not trust the pool operator to reasonably protect/hold the rewards until adequately verified, one should probably mine elsewhere...methinks. Additionally, it puts the miners' accounting load on Kano, where it doesn't belong...again, methinks.

But then, I've been occasionally told I think too much...methinks.  

Sorry, but do you have multiple personality disorder today? That first paragraph first agrees with larger payments, then the second part disagrees with larger payments, because larger consolidated payments mean the pool operator running a wallet that holds those payments until they are ready to payout.

So do you agree with one large consolidated payment a day or not? I think for this pool it works fine without, all you need to do is have a mining wallet and a cold, or spending wallet, the mining income goes into the mining wallet, and every week or so you send the coins from your mining wallet into your cold wallet, which consolidates the dust for you. Then when you want to trade or buy something with your coin you do so from the cold/spending wallet and, if you use a reasonable sized transaction fee, that spend will go through alot faster than if you sent it from your mining wallet.

Interesting. I said nothing about size of payments. It was about frequency. I also said nothing about consolidation. However, I do have an opinion on it...I don't like it. I do my accounting traceable to the block, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Really? If you normally 5 small payments per day, but consolidate them into one payment per day then thats going to be a single larger payment surely The frequency of payments in this example is directly correlated to the size of payment.

Thanks for clarifying your stance, I'm not having a go, just that you surprised me as your normal position is one of someone who likes the way things work here, but your first sentence is agreeing with the OP saying that they'd rather have one payout per day rather than lots of small payouts.

[firetreeactual]

OK...without the 27 quotes...

I was REALLY unclear about what I was trying to say...so apologies, and a couple of you got me to look at it at least.

The thought that came to me at the time (and I was not really awake) was the complaining about so long between blocks, and of waiting for payout until the next post-confirmation block is found. That's all.

If the payouts came daily (but that won't always happen, will it?) but were detailed as to which block rewards it was paying, I'd be fine with that. Bottom line with me is that I DO trust the op, and like the way he runs things...I think a lot more than many folks here. If I didn't I wouldn't be here.

Teaches me to not try to post any cogent thought at 0600 local with no sleep in the past 20 hrs, and even coffee isn't enough then.

 

[dance191]

I really don't get the need for lots of daily payouts.  A payout ever day, even every few days or so is fine.  Do people really need 10 small payouts a day?  I would rather get 1 large payout a day than 10 small ones.  If nothing else, it makes less work for the accounting.  

Agreed. I do not see any point for it, other than extreme insecurity perhaps. If one does not trust the pool operator to reasonably protect/hold the rewards until adequately verified, one should probably mine elsewhere...methinks. Additionally, it puts the miners' accounting load on Kano, where it doesn't belong...again, methinks.

But then, I've been occasionally told I think too much...methinks.  

Sorry, but do you have multiple personality disorder today? That first paragraph first agrees with larger payments, then the second part disagrees with larger payments, because larger consolidated payments mean the pool operator running a wallet that holds those payments until they are ready to payout.

So do you agree with one large consolidated payment a day or not? I think for this pool it works fine without, all you need to do is have a mining wallet and a cold, or spending wallet, the mining income goes into the mining wallet, and every week or so you send the coins from your mining wallet into your cold wallet, which consolidates the dust for you. Then when you want to trade or buy something with your coin you do so from the cold/spending wallet and, if you use a reasonable sized transaction fee, that spend will go through alot faster than if you sent it from your mining wallet.

Interesting. I said nothing about size of payments. It was about frequency. I also said nothing about consolidation. However, I do have an opinion on it...I don't like it. I do my accounting traceable to the block, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Really? If you normally 5 small payments per day, but consolidate them into one payment per day then thats going to be a single larger payment surely The frequency of payments in this example is directly correlated to the size of payment.

Thanks for clarifying your stance, I'm not having a go, just that you surprised me as your normal position is one of someone who likes the way things work here, but your first sentence is agreeing with the OP saying that they'd rather have one payout per day rather than lots of small payouts.

This is getting twisted...

I was responding to people complaining about the pool size and how they have to wait for the pool to find a block that confirms their pending payouts.  I was saying I like how the pool works, and I think waiting a day or two shouldn't really be an issue for people.  Yes, I know people are impatient, but mining takes time.  You buy equipment that will take 6 months ~ a year to just pay for itself, so waiting a couple of days for payouts shouldn't be an issue for people.  

I was not suggesting that Kano build something that pays out when people request the payments.  He doesn't want the responsibility of holding on to the coins and I 100% understand this.  I am sure for him the safest coins are ones he has already sent and he no longer controls.

As other people have mentioned, you can use something like Coinbase or Blockchain.info to consolidate your small payments and then withdrawal from there occasionally (rather than have Kano build this functionality).  I personally have not done this, but I don't think they charge fees to send coins with lots of inputs (last I checked at least they didn't).

Sorry for any confusion, at the time it was in response to people saying the pool is smaller than they want.  However, that chatter died off and it got changed into I was requesting a daily payout feature/consolidating payouts.  Sorry for any missing clarity on my part!

[powrslave]

scraped from found blocks on webpage 

[bitsink]

scraped from found blocks on webpage 

Random noise and statistics. There is no pattern no matter how much we would like to believe there is one 

[bitsink]

I was also thinking about the the 5Nd thing, whether this really is just a statistical smoothing function (moving average) or wether it gives "old" miners a 5Nd (currently about 100h, but possibly not constant()) lead over new miners due to network difficulty changes every 14 days? Are new miners disadvantaged by this in that when their hashes are paid out the 5th time they are worth less (if a diff change has since occurred)? Maybe this has been considered before, but some explanation would be nice.

Anyone willing to chime in on whether newbies starting out are disadvantaged compared to someone who has already "filled" the 5Nd window or not due to upcoming diff increases? Thanks.

[beltsniffer]

I was also thinking about the the 5Nd thing, whether this really is just a statistical smoothing function (moving average) or wether it gives "old" miners a 5Nd (currently about 100h, but possibly not constant()) lead over new miners due to network difficulty changes every 14 days? Are new miners disadvantaged by this in that when their hashes are paid out the 5th time they are worth less (if a diff change has since occurred)? Maybe this has been considered before, but some explanation would be nice.

Anyone willing to chime in on whether newbies starting out are disadvantaged compared to someone who has already "filled" the 5Nd window or not due to upcoming diff increases? Thanks.

I think any perceived disadvantage of 5Nd is minimal. Right now the 5Nd is ~106 hours. It changes with hashrate +/- and difficulty. I don't think the current time span is all that much, unless difficulty is making a huge jump (>10%).

We all went through it.

I think what really hurts is the lessened hash rate that adds to the variance. And I don't think we are all that newbie friendly. Though everyone here is helpful to the max, I think a lot of times we talk over their heads. They come here for a few days don't get the quickfix payouts they got at a larger pool.

[philipma1957]

this pool is not going to attract newbies.

5n
block by block payouts
no auto withdrawal
no set limit payout.

all of the above simply won't work for a new guy that purchased a 1500 dollar s-9 and a 200 dollar psu.

they say I am down 1700 usd I want steady money back now.

thus f2poo it is for them

if they  make back some money and see btc is not going poof maybe then they will come here.

[kano]

I was also thinking about the the 5Nd thing, whether this really is just a statistical smoothing function (moving average) or wether it gives "old" miners a 5Nd (currently about 100h, but possibly not constant()) lead over new miners due to network difficulty changes every 14 days? Are new miners disadvantaged by this in that when their hashes are paid out the 5th time they are worth less (if a diff change has since occurred)? Maybe this has been considered before, but some explanation would be nice.

Anyone willing to chime in on whether newbies starting out are disadvantaged compared to someone who has already "filled" the 5Nd window or not due to upcoming diff increases? Thanks.

What actually happens is that each share you submit (as the web page says) is rewarded in all blocks in the 5Nd after it.
So basically, it takes 5Nd to get rewarded.
It has nothing to do with a lower reward for your work.
When you have 5Nd worth of shares, then you always have a full set of shares to be rewarded.
It has no possible expected effect on your reward at all.
It's simply to do with reducing reward variance (by stretching out the reward time)