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smooth
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September 29, 2014, 11:18:33 PM
 #1481

I'm not pro moderation. My opinion has been that original and primary Monero thread should be unmoderated, but moderated threads can also exist alongside it, with neither claiming greater legitimacy. The choice belongs to the reader.

Fair enough.  We agree XMR's OP should remain unmoderated, but we'll have to disagree about its superior legitmacy for the reasons I've already stated.  Forgive my appeal to popularity, but most of the forum seems to believe moderated threads (especially for hardware and altcoins) are less legitimate than unmoderated ones.

I thought you were among those clamoring to move discussion to moderated threads/forums, because you seemed to be in agreement with fluffy's hand-wringing post about the awful T Roll's unbearably boorish behavior.

No, if my reply looked like that it was bad editing on my part. Had nothing to do with fluffypony's post.

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September 30, 2014, 04:10:53 AM
 #1482

Welcome to the ignore list! You are in good company with BobSurplus!

Random words...with no coherence...
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September 30, 2014, 04:21:12 AM
 #1483

I'm not pro moderation. My opinion has been that original and primary Monero thread should be unmoderated, but moderated threads can also exist alongside it, with neither claiming greater legitimacy. The choice belongs to the reader.

Fair enough.  We agree XMR's OP should remain unmoderated, but we'll have to disagree about its superior legitmacy for the reasons I've already stated.  Forgive my appeal to popularity, but most of the forum seems to believe moderated threads (especially for hardware and altcoins) are less legitimate than unmoderated ones.

I thought you were among those clamoring to move discussion to moderated threads/forums, because you seemed to be in agreement with fluffy's hand-wringing post about the awful T Roll's unbearably boorish behavior.


I think it's mainly the 2 or 3 Monero trolls and their sockpuppets who complain about the moderation because that's all they can find that's negative  about Monero.
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September 30, 2014, 04:32:18 AM
 #1484

Has anything interesting happened in this story recently?
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September 30, 2014, 04:39:51 AM
 #1485

Has anything interesting happened in this story recently?

Spotniek got unbanned from his local library
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September 30, 2014, 05:32:42 AM
 #1486

Has anything interesting happened in this story recently?

What story?
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September 30, 2014, 05:52:53 AM
 #1487

How typical of you pro-moderation types to omit dissent, rather than respond to it on-point.   Wink

Dissent is elemental.  Without it there is stagnation.
This was my view on the no-lose scenario for BCX.
We all win, if and when technology advances.
I love it when someone disagrees with me.  It means there is a chance I'm wrong and can learn something.

The only "side" that had a chance of losing this game was the Monero side, and this would be only if all of
1) they did nothing, and
2) there was a fatal flaw
3) it were executed effectively

TW attacks are expensive.  Now even more so if they take >50% hash power to execute, and what's more, if they also require DDOS.
But
XMR now even in this most expensive situation, can still recover.  So long as there exists some channel to get the word out on the good chain, clients can be updated in the field, with no recompile, and minimal non-mining time.  The target was significantly hardened, and the benefit of attack significantly reduced.

BCX may still wish to test this, but there is just not much incentive to do so and might as well just mine + sell instead.  With Monero's high privacy, BCX may be doing just that and we wouldn't be able to know.

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September 30, 2014, 06:06:12 AM
 #1488

Dissent is elemental.  Without it there is stagnation.
This was my view on the no-lose scenario for BCX.
We all win, if and when technology advances.
I love it when someone disagrees with me.  It means there is a chance I'm wrong and can learn something.

The only "side" that had a chance of losing this game was the Monero side, and this would be only if all of
1) they did nothing, and
2) there was a fatal flaw
3) it were executed effectively

TW attacks are expensive.  Now even more so if they take >50% hash power to execute, and what's more, if they also require DDOS.
But
XMR now even in this most expensive situation, can still recover.  So long as there exists some channel to get the word out on the good chain, clients can be updated in the field, with no recompile, and minimal non-mining time.  The target was significantly hardened, and the benefit of attack significantly reduced.

BCX may still wish to test this, but there is just not much incentive to do so and might as well just mine + sell instead.  With Monero's high privacy, BCX may be doing just that and we wouldn't be able to know.

Well said.  The idea that moderated threads are equal in legitimacy to unmoderated ones discounts the value of dissent and trades it for insipid self-congratulation.  The only thing worse than being trolled is not being trolled...  Smiley

For a thread trying to sell something, be it an altcoin or an ASIC, moderation is rightly viewed with great suspicion.

Even while BCX shakes out the weakly held XMR, our distribution improves as coins flow into wiser, less panic-prone wallets.   Cool


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
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September 30, 2014, 07:49:05 AM
 #1489

For a thread trying to sell something, be it an altcoin or an ASIC, moderation is rightly viewed with great suspicion.

In that case you should have no issue with moderated Monero threads since the project is not trying to sell anything (other than mugs and T shirts). An open source coin project (at least one without an IPO) and an ASIC manufacturer are two totally different categories.

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September 30, 2014, 08:16:13 AM
 #1490

Welcome to the ignore list! You are in good company with BobSurplus!

Random words...with no coherence...

You're too late for that. They are in my Ignore list since day 1.
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September 30, 2014, 08:32:07 AM
Last edit: September 30, 2014, 09:18:00 AM by Spoetnik
 #1491

say i create a self moderated topic then i use some accounts to bump it ensuring it stays on the top of page 1 at all times
then i post stuff to trigger a response.. that other un-moderated topic will be on page 5 and we all know it.

you guys are playing dumb about the typical manipulation that goes on around here 24/7
the Monero shills will of course flock to the venue that supports their position.. aka: the self modded topic
where they get to jam Pro Monero crap down our throats and delete any ones comment that is not ass kissing.
and that will ensure the self modded topic is on page one and the other so called equal topic is long forgotten.
cut the crap guys lol

and that is a part of the problem here is Monero guys are playing a LOT of manipulative games around this forum and i have highlighted it a lot !
your own Monero bag holders have admitted this on previous recent pages on this very topic !

and to the guys working hard at staying on topic here all i can say is.. my Library has a brand name Lazy Boy recliner parked in front of my PC Smiley
and i have never put 1 guy ever on any ignore list on any site in my life.. i am not a child.

the Monero interest here at the forum is a vortex of manipulation designed for two things..
To make it seem like there is more interest than there actually is in it.
and 2.. to attract investors to cough up their Bitcoin to buy Monero..

and why ?
no matter how many times ask i see side stepping and games.
the guy who sent me 5 pm's harassing me since yesterday said.. it's the no. 2 coin.
why ?

i guess i am a monster for questioning such bold grand claims eh ?
better put me on the ignore list for questioning the manufactured interest in this Cryptonote cloning platform "fork" huh ?
better call me a troll and *try and attack and discredit me for questioning why guys are claiming Monero of all coins is the no. 2 coin right ?

so let me get this straight.. some guy created a coin cloning platform called Cryptonote and a dozen + coins were created from it
and a couple loud mouths fresh out of the loony bin bought a shit load of them and said it was their first Altcoin etc
and now they proclaim it's the best coin ever.. better than Bitcoin blah blah blah
Why ?
because you bought a shit load and are bag holding them ?

Don't worry Shills you can safely ignore me and call me a troll and ignore me Wink
And i guess dodging what i just asked yet again is good for the coin as buddy just said lol
ya the public new guys coming along watching you dodge the question i said above endlessly REALLY makes you guys look good LOL
and the attacking people that ASK will really seal the deal and ensure you get the newcomers Bitcoins you want so badly hahaha

FUD first & ask questions later™
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September 30, 2014, 08:36:36 AM
 #1492

say i create a self moderated topic then i use some accounts to bump it ensuring it stays on the top of page 1 at all times
then i post stuff to trigger a response.. that other moderated topic will be on page 5 and we all know it.

you guys are playing dumb about the typical manipulation that goes on around here 24/7

You mean exactly like this thread and all the crap you post here and elsewhere?

No one is dumb about manipulation, you just think we're dumb about who is doing it. We're not.

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September 30, 2014, 08:58:43 AM
 #1493

For a thread trying to sell something, be it an altcoin or an ASIC, moderation is rightly viewed with great suspicion.

In that case you should have no issue with moderated Monero threads since the project is not trying to sell anything (other than mugs and T shirts). An open source coin project (at least one without an IPO) and an ASIC manufacturer are two totally different categories.

Monero has recognized monetary value and are not given away for free.

For most people, the best/only way to acquire XMR is to buy some.

Let's not pretend they just fall out of the sky or grow on trees.

ASICs and altcoins are different, but not totally. Both entice potential buyers with leverage to Bitcoin.  Both are viewed with suspicion and regarded as scams until proven otherwise.

That's why moderated threads for both are frowned upon, despite their predictable cost of troll hazards.  You already know all this, yet protest too much regardless.   Tongue


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
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September 30, 2014, 09:07:15 AM
 #1494

For a thread trying to sell something, be it an altcoin or an ASIC, moderation is rightly viewed with great suspicion.

In that case you should have no issue with moderated Monero threads since the project is not trying to sell anything (other than mugs and T shirts). An open source coin project (at least one without an IPO) and an ASIC manufacturer are two totally different categories.

Monero has recognized monetary value and are not given away for free.

In fact I've given away quite a few (definitely hundreds if not thousands).

Quote
For most people, the best/only way to acquire XMR is to buy some.

True, but not from us. We're not selling anything.

Quote
That's why moderated threads for both are frowned upon, despite their predictable cost of troll hazards.  You already know all this, yet protest too much regardless.   Tongue

There is nothing to protest since our original thread is unmoderated and open to all, and there is no shortage of other unmoderated threads.

I think you just paint with too broad a brush, particularly when deleted posts are usually visible on bitcointa.lk anyway, and the forum mods frown on self-moderated cover ups (for example I noticed a few minutes ago that the many posts deleted by Black Arrow on their moderated ASIC thread were restored).

When the participants themselves (not the promoters/organizers/sellers) are asking for moderated threads to create a more pleasant environment, I see no legitimacy issue with providing them. Also, the style of moderation matters. For example, on the Monero Speculation thread I moderate, I make a point to identify every post I delete and give a reason (almost always because an off-topic exchange has gone on too long). All may not agree, but there is full transparency and no attempt to mislead.






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September 30, 2014, 12:18:33 PM
 #1495

what in gods name do you seriously expect when you come here and say your first Altcoin is Monero ?

I expect serious consideration from my peer group consisting of people in my level, and also those who believe that by learning from me they can reach higher. Never before or after, I have bought into another altcoin, so it is a great thing for me, which I gladly share with my supporters.

As for moderated vs. unmoderated threads, the main issue is S/N-ratio. It's possible to buy sockpuppet work for $0.12-$0.20 per message. Just to take an example, NewLiberty posts here and the opportunity cost for him to write these messages is certainly about $100. It is possible to inundate his reasonable and insightful messages below a pile of junk at a price much cheaper than it is for him to write them. This is an economic attack which wears down the good posters so that in the end only the junk remains.

(self)Moderation is a way to mitigate it. If you feel your contribution is not welcome, you can refrain from posting into such threads and do not lose anything. NewLiberty's readers gain by not needing to wade through the pile of junk when they are interested mainly in NewLiberty's contribution and the insightful responses to it.

We have decided to continue posting in Bitcointalk, so you'll just have to accept it. If any of my posts infuriates you, consider the fact that I am not talking to you. I am talking to people who want to listen to me and learn from me. A humble button titled "Ignore" is there if my contribution is not welcome.

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September 30, 2014, 12:32:46 PM
 #1496



Dont know anything about this coin.

Sounds like something out of South america or Italy?


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September 30, 2014, 12:36:37 PM
 #1497

Dont know anything about this coin.
Sounds like something out of South america or Italy?
Monero is Esperanto for "money".  It is designed by a company based in the Republic of Esperantonia.  Grin

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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September 30, 2014, 12:38:36 PM
 #1498

what in gods name do you seriously expect when you come here and say your first Altcoin is Monero ?

I expect serious consideration from my peer group consisting of people in my level, and also those who believe that by learning from me they can reach higher. Never before or after, I have bought into another altcoin, so it is a great thing for me, which I gladly share with my supporters.

As for moderated vs. unmoderated threads, the main issue is S/N-ratio. It's possible to buy sockpuppet work for $0.12-$0.20 per message. Just to take an example, NewLiberty posts here and the opportunity cost for him to write these messages is certainly about $100. It is possible to inundate his reasonable and insightful messages below a pile of junk at a price much cheaper than it is for him to write them. This is an economic attack which wears down the good posters so that in the end only the junk remains.

(self)Moderation is a way to mitigate it. If you feel your contribution is not welcome, you can refrain from posting into such threads and do not lose anything. NewLiberty's readers gain by not needing to wade through the pile of junk when they are interested mainly in NewLiberty's contribution and the insightful responses to it.

We have decided to continue posting in Bitcointalk, so you'll just have to accept it. If any of my posts infuriates you, consider the fact that I am not talking to you. I am talking to people who want to listen to me and learn from me. A humble button titled "Ignore" is there if my contribution is not welcome.



Hey man. I just want to say that you're doing a fine job and I'm particularly sickened by some of the personal attacks made against you. Don't let the bastards get you down dude!
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September 30, 2014, 12:43:35 PM
Last edit: September 30, 2014, 02:06:05 PM by instacash
 #1499

As for moderated vs. unmoderated threads, the main issue is S/N-ratio. It's possible to buy sockpuppet work for $0.12-$0.20 per message. Just to take an example, NewLiberty posts here and the opportunity cost for him to write these messages is certainly about $100. It is possible to inundate his reasonable and insightful messages below a pile of junk at a price much cheaper than it is for him to write them. This is an economic attack which wears down the good posters so that in the end only the junk remains.

(self)Moderation is a way to mitigate it. If you feel your contribution is not welcome, you can refrain from posting into such threads and do not lose anything. NewLiberty's readers gain by not needing to wade through the pile of junk when they are interested mainly in NewLiberty's contribution and the insightful responses to it.

I suggest you open your own private forum for you and your supporters to enjoy "insightful" discussions free from this "pile of junk" (as you call it) all the users with differing opinions post here. This way you can enjoy "clean" discussions with your supporters and fans while giving this place relief of the Monero invasion at the same time. It would also cause you less work as you wouldn't have to delete/censor half of the posts in your threads. How about that? Your current approach basically screams for the trolls to come and troll against "the great self-proclaimed teacher" imho.
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September 30, 2014, 12:52:15 PM
 #1500

BTW as an aside note. Geniuses are generally assumed by the masses to be crazy.

Yeah, but so are crazies...

And in both cases it takes one to know one! Cheesy

Sounds like the discussion is veering towards "Shut up and show me the code." Smiley






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