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Author Topic: [prediction] Next spike $560,000 14 {<-oops!} months from now (2017 Update!)  (Read 71465 times)
Ibian
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September 28, 2014, 03:07:52 AM
 #21

The described scenario is theoretically possible, but can occur only if there is a crash in other currencies or financial markets.
People seems to be quite content with using fiat. Why would they change, except in special cases, like sending money?
What is the impetus for every day use?
If all mined coins are sold (just for the sake of argument), then it results of $526 mil being sold into the system per year.
There are only four funds that are buyers and these are relatively small funds. The only other buyers might be large family offices.
In a personal example, I am a relative enthusiast (I accumulate, mine, etc.), however I don't use bitcoin for much of anything because it seems silly to exchange it for goods (other than miners) at the current super low prices with me putting up quite a lot of cash getting measly btc at the moment. None of my family have used bitcoins for anything, even if they are fully aware of bitcoin from my interest. I am quite sure that this situation is rather typical.
Perhaps, we are too impatient and it will take years/decades for usage to improve, but the last 11 mo has been a general disappointment: too much talk about esoteric usage (Etherium, etc) and too little improvement in day-to-day activities (wallets, security, etc.).
There will be a more or less global Cyprus in the coming years. Legislation to steal from peoples bank accounts is already in place or being put in place. By 2016 it will be legal, and they are making it legal because it is going to happen. Germany won't even have to wait that long, they can legally steal from people starting next year.

Beyond that, all we need is a media hype campaign. Eventually someone with a lot of money will want to make that happen.

Look inside yourself, and you will see that you are the bubble.
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September 28, 2014, 04:08:11 AM
 #22

I like to buy high and sell low



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September 28, 2014, 04:25:14 AM
 #23


prolific posting

this has been my opinion the moment I grasped the idea of Bitcoin and the importance of its network effetct

to quote rpetila the amount of Bitcoin pregnancies is at an ALL TIME HIGH

there are already extremely wealthy entrenched interested that have jumped on board.

there will be a tipping point, a black swan event that will see a mass exodus of fiat money into Bitcoin

it only takes ONE major entity; bank, company, government, person to buy in and others will follow, not wanting to be left outside.

another considerable impact will be customers that, with the help of companies like Circle, will be able to transfer to BTC seamlessy. Peter R had a great post describing a sort of "enlightenment"  he had about individuals around him having the ability to so easily "invest" in BTC's wave through their smartphone app. I could easily empathize with him. I too, have friend who I have discussed BTC with and know it only takes ONE upside move for them to jump in. the moment Circle is open for everyone in the world to use it will be an enormous step forward for Bitcoin.

one thing is for sure, corporations are not going to be left behind. the moment they feel that are losing a grip on things, their move will be swift and indeed, massive. they will have their own arms race where every one will compete for a bigger stake.

from there on it is every man for its own

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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September 28, 2014, 04:34:01 AM
 #24

I like to buy high and sell low
better sell now before its too late!








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September 28, 2014, 04:35:53 AM
 #25

it only takes ONE major entity; bank, company, government, person to buy in and others will follow, not wanting to be left outside.


This is wishful thinking. Tim Draper already jumped in with >30000 coins purchase. Nobody followed him, sorry.
Second market stagnated as well.
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September 28, 2014, 04:43:10 AM
 #26

it only takes ONE major entity; bank, company, government, person to buy in and others will follow, not wanting to be left outside.


This is wishful thinking. Tim Draper already jumped in with >30000 coins purchase. Nobody followed him, sorry.
Second market stagnated as well.

not mainstream enough. try again.

even your argument that "nobody followed him" is patently untrue.

it is not wishful thinking. and at the rate we are at, it could possibly happen within a year from now.



"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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September 28, 2014, 04:53:15 AM
 #27

Could someone please add dates to the x-axis? I don't see the units, is it function(days from today)? Where function=sin?

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September 28, 2014, 04:56:14 AM
 #28

After last nights excursion into how bitcoin adoption plays out, I played around with some charts. Broadly based around these concepts.

A. There is an underlying sigmoid function (wikipedia'd that one!) that drives base valuation - the adoption curve.
B. That the market price is some cyclical function underpinned by the base valuation (A).
C. We end with widespread adoption after about 10 years, representing a base value of BTC based on some percentage of the economy. I picked risto's $300k because its as good a figure as any Smiley

If you use the function tan^-1 to model the s-curve
If you use some function such as sin to model a cycle

Then all is left to do is set up some start and end points, and mess around with modifiers to amplitude and frequency of the cyclical input, and rate of adoption of S-curve.

After trying out a variety of values it became obvious this was just an exercise in throwing darts Smiley - if it wasn't already obvious this is not a method of trying to predict highs and lows so you can trade your way to victory. It is more an exercise in preparing mentally for the magnitude of movement that one might expect were these assumptions of mass market adoption true.

It became clear, that it doesn't matter what values you put in. There is always some point where, despite how incredible/insane you think BTC price has been up to know, it pales compared to what it would need to do to fulfil this kind of projection.

No matter how you try to tame this model, doing so makes early movements far too placid.

Eventually I settled on a model that roughly followed the trend up to $1200ish with a sell off to about $400, then zoomed out to see how those parameters unfold over the 10 year adoption curve.

I got this...



I though this is ridiculous, it can't possibly happen. Then I thought, how else *could* it happen.

*if* it is ever to go mainstream. like a serious part of the world economy mainstream, there has to be a tipping point. Up until now the whole bitcoin market cap has been toy money compared to the kind of numbers that are thrown around when people start talking about things like the money supply, and absolute chicken feed compared to things like derivatives.

There has already been talk that the most recent price spike was 'the last time'. People claim everybody already knows about bitcoin, its all over now. I think this is nonsense. If I go out in the street and do a spot survey on people, your answers range from "oh yeah I think i heard of it on the news one time" to "huh?". The man in the street does *not* know about bitcoin. Anyone claiming they do is merely demonstrating their embarrassingly limited world view. Maybe every one of your online mates knows about it, but bitcoin isn't WoW gold. In a 'success' scenario - widespread adoption - it's slightly more relevant on a global IRL scale.

Wall st has indeed come. Its just that people are looking at things from the wrong angle. Wall st is part of the infrastructure that is currently rising up, such that once everyone notices what has happened. It's already happened.

To get to 300k we have to get through 3k and 30k. When the world's eyes turn to what bitcoin has become, then there will be no orderly queue, and understandable rise. It will be full on (mask) hysteria. The rise to 32 was when the neck beards were buying into a 7200BTC per day production. The rise to 266 was the first wave of internet interest, the rise to $1200 was a continuation fuelled the rest of the plugged in generation. It made the MSM which may have fuelled a little speculation. That's when things got serious.

Governments have noticed it, powerful people have noticed it, *banks* have noticed it. Right now we are in a perfect storm of the aftermath of a huge overshoot on the purchase of mining equipment - this is *fact* as evidence by the hash rate/difficulty.

This will take time to unravel. It surely will though, as irrational as people are, they will eventually stop flushing money down the mining drain. That money will turn towards the supply. As it becomes obvious the bottom is in, that is when people will start the next run up. Only this time it isn't going to be just neckbeards, redditors, hipsters and anonymous, it will be institutions. That have pretty much unlimited buying power by virtue of them essentially being able to print their own money, because they are TBTF and will just keep bankrolling each other whilst nuzzling the teat of QE washing away their toxic assets.

So the move will be unprecedented.

Unprecedented to you and I and all the other peons around here. To those behind the move, they just spent a few hundred millions to acquire assets they can now assign book values of billions. Selling into this only makes you weaker in the end game, and selling is what they want you to do because those dollars you are acquiring get more worthless the more bitcoin they have. Who here though has the constitution to hold as they see the price double repeatedly. We are still at the end of the day all hardwired for fiat. As much as anyone pretends they are not.

So the number I have picked is probably not that accurate. The magnitude, and the colossal unbeleivableness of it, is what is important. That's the black swan that nobody sees coming. That 90% of the people in the world will miss 90% of the bitcoin.

I repeat this exercise is about being ready if this happens. About having thought about what you are going to do. Me personally, I don't pretend for a second I can hold tight to everything. I'll sell a little on the run up just like a have every other time, and just like every other time, I will regret the stuff a sold a week earlier for far less. Just like every other time, when the dancing is done I'll reflect about how I used to have soooo many more bitcoin. Just like every other time, I will have made my end game worse.

I won't have sold everything though.

That's the difference between this post and every "talking your book but pretending not to" post on here. Everyone knows I'm long, I'm not telling anyone to go all in or all out I don't think posts on here make the slightest bit of difference, we are way beyond that now. The train has left the station and the driver is still drunk in the station bar. I'm just chatting to people about what I think. Getting more responses and replies from people who have other ideas and using this to shape my future decisions.

I'm already well past caring about whether I *lose everything* because for a long time now that's been impossible. The fact that people are up on here posting "advice" to sell is even more ridiculous to me than the suggestion that btc will be worth over half a million in just over a years time.

For the record, yes that chart does say over  1m in 3 years. It also says 250k the year later. It absolutely terrifies me to think how one might ride that out. Once again the figures aren't right, its the magnitude of the moves you might have to go through that is the message.

Since a lot of people are scared of math, you are just fooling us!
anyway wish your insane prediction come true
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September 28, 2014, 05:40:56 AM
 #29

sgbett,  your post is like water to a parched tounge and a cool breeze on a hot day.  Thank you!  Smiley

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September 28, 2014, 06:38:34 AM
 #30

I like to buy high and sell low

Really??? I can give you instant gratification. I can sell you one coin for $500000!!  Wink
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September 28, 2014, 09:25:46 AM
Last edit: September 28, 2014, 09:41:11 AM by sickpig
 #31

Could someone please add dates to the x-axis? I don't see the units, is it function(days from today)? Where function=sin?

I've just seen the chart. Didn't read the post properly, but onx-axis you should have number of days since the first mined block.

Scrath that it doen't make sense.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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September 28, 2014, 09:39:43 AM
 #32

Highly doubt this would happen, sorry to say but your prediction is WELL OFF!
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September 28, 2014, 09:51:02 AM
 #33

Highly doubt this would happen, sorry to say but your prediction is WELL OFF!

How can you know the future until it has happened? Don't be silly.

Hear hear sgbett on writing a bullish post for a change. To a newbie or lurker happening upon the forum by chance they would probably think bitcoin 'the project' is dead and buried. That the price is the only measure of bitcoin's success and it is 'game over'. It is doom and gloom because in recent months the price hasnt gone up. No mention of the fact that the price is up 4x from the previous year!

When the price turns back upwards and the pent up demand from sellers and newbies and institutions alike drives the next mania, posters like exocytosis and xiaoxiao will have missed out again. That is if they are not wiped out playing with leverage in a volatile market. Amazing how difficult some people find it to simply invest a % of your wealth in something which has huge potential speculative gains and hold on to it.
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September 28, 2014, 09:52:14 AM
 #34

Good analysis

~ The inevitable is coming and bitcoin will be mainstreamed .... too bad some people don't see it ~
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September 28, 2014, 11:00:22 AM
 #35

I like to buy high and sell low

Really??? I can give you instant gratification. I can sell you one coin for $500000!!  Wink

500.000 is much lower then 560.000, so this is good job for any daytrader.
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September 28, 2014, 12:09:15 PM
 #36

The problem with waves is the people and the money entering in Bitcoin in waves imply there will moments the flow turn back or lower.
People, like at a party, will hang around even when the party is ending. Until someone decide to exit first and then this will signal to the others it is thime to exit.
They already want go home, but not want to be the first to go home

The same with Bitcoin: there are a lot awaiting on the wings, in the shadows.
The turning point in my opinion is when the Bitcoin inflation will turn permanently lower than the inflation in USD and/or other major currencies.
This will move the natural equilibrium point in Bitcoin favor in the same way the lower inflation move the equilibrium point in favor of the Swiss Franc compared with the USD and in favor of the USD compared to the Argentinian Peseta.

Then, some medium big fish will decide to enter and all of them will start entering together.
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September 28, 2014, 12:24:35 PM
 #37

When the price turns back upwards and the pent up demand from sellers and newbies and institutions alike drives the next mania, posters like exocytosis and xiaoxiao will have missed out again.


No, I actually do hold some BTC currently, just in case my predictions are wrong. However, that doesn't mean I have to yell "to the moon" to try luring in newbies. I prefer voicing my honest opinion, and would be glad if the Bitcoin market decided to prove me wrong. If Bitcoin can't sustain its price just because of my bearishness in here, then Bitcoin doesn't deserve to exist anyway -- and I'll gladly take my tiny loss.

I hope Bitcoin will go to the moon, but I don't think it will. I'm 95 % sure it won't. That's why 95 % of my net worth is not in Bitcoin.

Oh, and I do like Bitcoin itself. It's the cultists, scammers and crooks I don't like.



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September 28, 2014, 12:27:44 PM
 #38

I like your prediction  Smiley
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September 28, 2014, 12:33:44 PM
 #39

I don't want to be rude but this sounds pretty damn delusional.
But hey, we can all dream can't we?
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September 28, 2014, 12:48:44 PM
 #40

it only takes ONE major entity; bank, company, government, person to buy in and others will follow, not wanting to be left outside.


This is wishful thinking. Tim Draper already jumped in with >30000 coins purchase. Nobody followed him, sorry.
Second market stagnated as well.

I hadn't even heard about that. Shows that the media isn't picking up on what should be picked up on.

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