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Author Topic: [prediction] Next spike $560,000 14 {<-oops!} months from now (2017 Update!)  (Read 71465 times)
brg444
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July 04, 2015, 09:28:23 PM
 #481

I don't think the next spike can be $560,000 14 months from the date of the OP. That's next November and would have to go up from today's price by 2240x. It's never done anything like that since it went from 10 Bitcoins a cent to $2 when it started off. Those kind of price increases would need billions of dollars throwing at Bitcoin to happen today. In the early days a few thousand dollars would pump the price crazily.

So the number I have picked is probably not that accurate. The magnitude, and the colossal unbeleivableness of it, is what is important. That's the black swan that nobody sees coming. That 90% of the people in the world will miss 90% of the bitcoin

Probably my timescale is wrong, probably my target is wrong.

Mostly though I'm still confident the underlying hypothesis remains solid. When it happens people will be utterly bamboozled.

Anyone's number is as good as the others'. The point of this thread, as emphasized by OP, is to get ready for such high valuation so as to not panic when it inevitably happens.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 05, 2015, 12:36:51 PM
 #482

The longer the price doesn't crash, the more I think something crazy is coming... feels uncannily like the $2 days at the moment...

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
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July 05, 2015, 12:42:11 PM
 #483

This is log version of that chart...



On the original sgbett's chart ^^^ x=days as per
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=800330.msg9005672#msg9005672
below is my comment on this chart. in red-approximation of what actually happened (days and prices are approximate at the current situation).
Green arrow is what is needed to get on the chart-I am not predicting that it will, just playing with the graph.


As drawn, we will be back at the graph at ~$8000 on Feb 20, 2016. Again, I am not predicting anything.

Thanks for doing that chart Biodom, nice to see how things play out over the long term.

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
*my posts are not investment advice*
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July 05, 2015, 01:54:16 PM
 #484

The longer the price doesn't crash, the more I think something crazy is coming... feels uncannily like the $2 days at the moment...

Or it feels like the 5$ of the first days of October 2011, before dropping to 2$. Cheesy
Remember, this market moved a lot slower than in 2011. Wink

Sometimes, if it looks too bullish, it's actually bearish
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July 05, 2015, 02:13:08 PM
 #485

The longer the price doesn't crash, the more I think something crazy is coming... feels uncannily like the $2 days at the moment...

Or it feels like the 5$ of the first days of October 2011, before dropping to 2$. Cheesy
Remember, this market moved a lot slower than in 2011. Wink
In October 2011, weekly SMA 7 crossed downward weekly SMA 30. Now weekly SMA 7 is about to cross upward SMA 30. Isn't that significant?
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July 05, 2015, 04:31:37 PM
 #486

The longer the price doesn't crash, the more I think something crazy is coming... feels uncannily like the $2 days at the moment...

Or it feels like the 5$ of the first days of October 2011, before dropping to 2$. Cheesy
Remember, this market moved a lot slower than in 2011. Wink

actually I'm wrong i meant the $5 days (beginning of 2012) got my bottoms mixed up Smiley

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*my posts are not investment advice*
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July 05, 2015, 06:48:45 PM
 #487

I have a feeling that the current bottom is over.  

There has been a very long period of things falling into place, slowly, in many different areas.  Many legal, perceptual, and technological obstacles have been removed.  Other obstacles that previously appeared to be very serious threats to long-term viability now are subject to strategies that will allow them to be overcome.

With Silk Road out of business, it's starting to be the case that I can convince people there exist non-criminal, non-dope-related reasons to have Bitcoin.  With regulators moving on the wreckage of Mt.Gox, it looks like there's going to be a legal framework that seeks and punishes fraudsters, and that's damned important when people are deciding what to put their money into.  

Then you've got investors starting to notice Bitcoin rallies fairly reliably on economic bad news from other parts of the economy and waking up to the idea that it makes a really nice hedge investment to round out a portfolio that is otherwise too exposed to financial-industry risk. You've got investment infrastructure popping up that lets fund managers use it for exactly that purpose, and ....  

And all of this has been happening, slowly, quietly, without major price disruptions.  

From time to time I've been seeing sort-of-diffuse movements of price driven by things that could be test runs of large systems, or could be large orders executed by sophisticated systems across many markets.  From time to time I've seen things happening that appear to be tests of market depth and response time.  And for quite a while (seven to nine months now?) I've been noticing a price/volume correlation where lower price means higher volume - a whole lot of somebodies, or maybe just a few somebodies with very deep pockets and a paranoid streak about not placing any single big orders, has been systematically, quietly buying whenever prices are down, at a rate that far exceeds normal dollar cost averaging.  I usually see that only when somebody or some institution is trying to enter a market quietly but in a large way and therefore has to take a long time.

I'm just getting this overwhelming feeling that things are ready to move - and something out in the rest of the world, like this vote in Greece or something, is going to provide the impetus for a big spike setting off the next cycle.
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July 06, 2015, 02:51:33 AM
 #488


I'm just getting this overwhelming feeling that things are ready to move - and something out in the rest of the world, like this vote in Greece or something, is going to provide the impetus for a big spike setting off the next cycle.



It was bound to happen eventually. The criminal system of world debt slavery and the endless printing of fake money is starting to unravel. Bitcoin will do extremely well during this critical phase.

You should all be getting as much BTC as you possibly can
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August 22, 2015, 06:49:06 PM
 #489

I am wondering if this chart will also hold relevance for Monero and any other successful 2.0 cryptos going forward. 
 
Make no mistake, I am still following the logic and patterns behind this prediction even if the timing wasn't quite accurate.  There's something compelling and logical about the way this would go down, and I still hear sgbett's words which I think will prove true in retrospect, "how else could it possibly happen?"   
 
sgbett, I have no idea how you wouldn't have heard of Monero by now but I humbly suggest you look into it.

Account is back under control of the real AmericanPegasus.
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August 22, 2015, 07:52:51 PM
 #490

It is deeply concerning that the Bitcoin community has failed to address the technical scalability issues.

With everything else lining up, every concrete measure that should have addressed scalability became the target of a social/political fight.  And it doesn't look like the community is getting past the fight to actually do something about it.

In fact it looks like the fight is being deliberately orchestrated and carefully maintained.  This bodes ill.  None of the stuff that's getting ready to work will matter if scaling hasn't already happened.

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August 22, 2015, 09:07:15 PM
 #491

It is deeply concerning that the Bitcoin community has failed to address the technical scalability issues.

With everything else lining up, every concrete measure that should have addressed scalability became the target of a social/political fight.  And it doesn't look like the community is getting past the fight to actually do something about it.

In fact it looks like the fight is being deliberately orchestrated and carefully maintained.  This bodes ill.  None of the stuff that's getting ready to work will matter if scaling hasn't already happened.



Please. You really are the go-to guy for FUD based on technical issues, are you not, Cryddit Little? Check this guy's post history everybody.

Vires in numeris
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August 23, 2015, 08:39:44 AM
 #492

I am wondering if this chart will also hold relevance for Monero and any other successful 2.0 cryptos going forward. 
 
Make no mistake, I am still following the logic and patterns behind this prediction even if the timing wasn't quite accurate.  There's something compelling and logical about the way this would go down, and I still hear sgbett's words which I think will prove true in retrospect, "how else could it possibly happen?"   
 
sgbett, I have no idea how you wouldn't have heard of Monero by now but I humbly suggest you look into it.

I have heard of it. It's interesting don't know if it's a bitcoin killer. Or if the two would co-exist.

I think the future of crypto will be mostly affected by how the world economy unfolds. The markets look shaky. Global banks running out of options? Or maybe everything will blow over and crypto will remain niche for decades...

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
*my posts are not investment advice*
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August 23, 2015, 12:01:43 PM
 #493

Wow! Only 3 months left till I am one of the richest people on planet earth!  Cheesy

.
.HUGE.
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August 24, 2015, 10:16:25 PM
 #494

After last nights excursion into how bitcoin adoption plays out, I played around with some charts. Broadly based around these concepts.

A. There is an underlying sigmoid function (wikipedia'd that one!) that drives base valuation - the adoption curve.
B. That the market price is some cyclical function underpinned by the base valuation (A).
C. We end with widespread adoption after about 10 years, representing a base value of BTC based on some percentage of the economy. I picked risto's $300k because its as good a figure as any Smiley

If you use the function tan^-1 to model the s-curve
If you use some function such as sin to model a cycle

Then all is left to do is set up some start and end points, and mess around with modifiers to amplitude and frequency of the cyclical input, and rate of adoption of S-curve.

After trying out a variety of values it became obvious this was just an exercise in throwing darts Smiley - if it wasn't already obvious this is not a method of trying to predict highs and lows so you can trade your way to victory. It is more an exercise in preparing mentally for the magnitude of movement that one might expect were these assumptions of mass market adoption true.

It became clear, that it doesn't matter what values you put in. There is always some point where, despite how incredible/insane you think BTC price has been up to know, it pales compared to what it would need to do to fulfil this kind of projection.

No matter how you try to tame this model, doing so makes early movements far too placid.

Eventually I settled on a model that roughly followed the trend up to $1200ish with a sell off to about $400, then zoomed out to see how those parameters unfold over the 10 year adoption curve.

I got this...

https://i.imgur.com/VIUygWWl.png

I though this is ridiculous, it can't possibly happen. Then I thought, how else *could* it happen.

*if* it is ever to go mainstream. like a serious part of the world economy mainstream, there has to be a tipping point. Up until now the whole bitcoin market cap has been toy money compared to the kind of numbers that are thrown around when people start talking about things like the money supply, and absolute chicken feed compared to things like derivatives.

There has already been talk that the most recent price spike was 'the last time'. People claim everybody already knows about bitcoin, its all over now. I think this is nonsense. If I go out in the street and do a spot survey on people, your answers range from "oh yeah I think i heard of it on the news one time" to "huh?". The man in the street does *not* know about bitcoin. Anyone claiming they do is merely demonstrating their embarrassingly limited world view. Maybe every one of your online mates knows about it, but bitcoin isn't WoW gold. In a 'success' scenario - widespread adoption - it's slightly more relevant on a global IRL scale.

Wall st has indeed come. Its just that people are looking at things from the wrong angle. Wall st is part of the infrastructure that is currently rising up, such that once everyone notices what has happened. It's already happened.

To get to 300k we have to get through 3k and 30k. When the world's eyes turn to what bitcoin has become, then there will be no orderly queue, and understandable rise. It will be full on (mask) hysteria. The rise to 32 was when the neck beards were buying into a 7200BTC per day production. The rise to 266 was the first wave of internet interest, the rise to $1200 was a continuation fuelled the rest of the plugged in generation. It made the MSM which may have fuelled a little speculation. That's when things got serious.

Governments have noticed it, powerful people have noticed it, *banks* have noticed it. Right now we are in a perfect storm of the aftermath of a huge overshoot on the purchase of mining equipment - this is *fact* as evidence by the hash rate/difficulty.

This will take time to unravel. It surely will though, as irrational as people are, they will eventually stop flushing money down the mining drain. That money will turn towards the supply. As it becomes obvious the bottom is in, that is when people will start the next run up. Only this time it isn't going to be just neckbeards, redditors, hipsters and anonymous, it will be institutions. That have pretty much unlimited buying power by virtue of them essentially being able to print their own money, because they are TBTF and will just keep bankrolling each other whilst nuzzling the teat of QE washing away their toxic assets.

So the move will be unprecedented.

Unprecedented to you and I and all the other peons around here. To those behind the move, they just spent a few hundred millions to acquire assets they can now assign book values of billions. Selling into this only makes you weaker in the end game, and selling is what they want you to do because those dollars you are acquiring get more worthless the more bitcoin they have. Who here though has the constitution to hold as they see the price double repeatedly. We are still at the end of the day all hardwired for fiat. As much as anyone pretends they are not.

So the number I have picked is probably not that accurate. The magnitude, and the colossal unbeleivableness of it, is what is important. That's the black swan that nobody sees coming. That 90% of the people in the world will miss 90% of the bitcoin.

I repeat this exercise is about being ready if this happens. About having thought about what you are going to do. Me personally, I don't pretend for a second I can hold tight to everything. I'll sell a little on the run up just like a have every other time, and just like every other time, I will regret the stuff a sold a week earlier for far less. Just like every other time, when the dancing is done I'll reflect about how I used to have soooo many more bitcoin. Just like every other time, I will have made my end game worse.

I won't have sold everything though.

That's the difference between this post and every "talking your book but pretending not to" post on here. Everyone knows I'm long, I'm not telling anyone to go all in or all out I don't think posts on here make the slightest bit of difference, we are way beyond that now. The train has left the station and the driver is still drunk in the station bar. I'm just chatting to people about what I think. Getting more responses and replies from people who have other ideas and using this to shape my future decisions.

I'm already well past caring about whether I *lose everything* because for a long time now that's been impossible. The fact that people are up on here posting "advice" to sell is even more ridiculous to me than the suggestion that btc will be worth over half a million in just over a years time.

For the record, yes that chart does say over  1m in 3 years. It also says 250k the year later. It absolutely terrifies me to think how one might ride that out. Once again the figures aren't right, its the magnitude of the moves you might have to go through that is the message.

I've realized that taking your posts seriously was the problem. I find them much better now I view them as light entertainment. I can't believe I was so naive as to fall for it before! Still we can't always be perfect  Cheesy


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August 24, 2015, 10:17:58 PM
 #495

Wow! Only 3 months left till I am one of the richest people on planet earth!  Cheesy

It's gonna be one sweet ass Christmas. I'm really looking forward to it.
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August 25, 2015, 08:50:44 AM
 #496

After last nights excursion into how bitcoin adoption plays out, I played around with some charts. Broadly based around these concepts.

A. There is an underlying sigmoid function (wikipedia'd that one!) that drives base valuation - the adoption curve.
B. That the market price is some cyclical function underpinned by the base valuation (A).
C. We end with widespread adoption after about 10 years, representing a base value of BTC based on some percentage of the economy. I picked risto's $300k because its as good a figure as any Smiley

If you use the function tan^-1 to model the s-curve
If you use some function such as sin to model a cycle

Then all is left to do is set up some start and end points, and mess around with modifiers to amplitude and frequency of the cyclical input, and rate of adoption of S-curve.

After trying out a variety of values it became obvious this was just an exercise in throwing darts Smiley - if it wasn't already obvious this is not a method of trying to predict highs and lows so you can trade your way to victory. It is more an exercise in preparing mentally for the magnitude of movement that one might expect were these assumptions of mass market adoption true.

It became clear, that it doesn't matter what values you put in. There is always some point where, despite how incredible/insane you think BTC price has been up to know, it pales compared to what it would need to do to fulfil this kind of projection.

No matter how you try to tame this model, doing so makes early movements far too placid.

Eventually I settled on a model that roughly followed the trend up to $1200ish with a sell off to about $400, then zoomed out to see how those parameters unfold over the 10 year adoption curve.

I got this...

https://i.imgur.com/VIUygWWl.png

I though this is ridiculous, it can't possibly happen. Then I thought, how else *could* it happen.

*if* it is ever to go mainstream. like a serious part of the world economy mainstream, there has to be a tipping point. Up until now the whole bitcoin market cap has been toy money compared to the kind of numbers that are thrown around when people start talking about things like the money supply, and absolute chicken feed compared to things like derivatives.

There has already been talk that the most recent price spike was 'the last time'. People claim everybody already knows about bitcoin, its all over now. I think this is nonsense. If I go out in the street and do a spot survey on people, your answers range from "oh yeah I think i heard of it on the news one time" to "huh?". The man in the street does *not* know about bitcoin. Anyone claiming they do is merely demonstrating their embarrassingly limited world view. Maybe every one of your online mates knows about it, but bitcoin isn't WoW gold. In a 'success' scenario - widespread adoption - it's slightly more relevant on a global IRL scale.

Wall st has indeed come. Its just that people are looking at things from the wrong angle. Wall st is part of the infrastructure that is currently rising up, such that once everyone notices what has happened. It's already happened.

To get to 300k we have to get through 3k and 30k. When the world's eyes turn to what bitcoin has become, then there will be no orderly queue, and understandable rise. It will be full on (mask) hysteria. The rise to 32 was when the neck beards were buying into a 7200BTC per day production. The rise to 266 was the first wave of internet interest, the rise to $1200 was a continuation fuelled the rest of the plugged in generation. It made the MSM which may have fuelled a little speculation. That's when things got serious.

Governments have noticed it, powerful people have noticed it, *banks* have noticed it. Right now we are in a perfect storm of the aftermath of a huge overshoot on the purchase of mining equipment - this is *fact* as evidence by the hash rate/difficulty.

This will take time to unravel. It surely will though, as irrational as people are, they will eventually stop flushing money down the mining drain. That money will turn towards the supply. As it becomes obvious the bottom is in, that is when people will start the next run up. Only this time it isn't going to be just neckbeards, redditors, hipsters and anonymous, it will be institutions. That have pretty much unlimited buying power by virtue of them essentially being able to print their own money, because they are TBTF and will just keep bankrolling each other whilst nuzzling the teat of QE washing away their toxic assets.

So the move will be unprecedented.

Unprecedented to you and I and all the other peons around here. To those behind the move, they just spent a few hundred millions to acquire assets they can now assign book values of billions. Selling into this only makes you weaker in the end game, and selling is what they want you to do because those dollars you are acquiring get more worthless the more bitcoin they have. Who here though has the constitution to hold as they see the price double repeatedly. We are still at the end of the day all hardwired for fiat. As much as anyone pretends they are not.

So the number I have picked is probably not that accurate. The magnitude, and the colossal unbeleivableness of it, is what is important. That's the black swan that nobody sees coming. That 90% of the people in the world will miss 90% of the bitcoin.

I repeat this exercise is about being ready if this happens. About having thought about what you are going to do. Me personally, I don't pretend for a second I can hold tight to everything. I'll sell a little on the run up just like a have every other time, and just like every other time, I will regret the stuff a sold a week earlier for far less. Just like every other time, when the dancing is done I'll reflect about how I used to have soooo many more bitcoin. Just like every other time, I will have made my end game worse.

I won't have sold everything though.

That's the difference between this post and every "talking your book but pretending not to" post on here. Everyone knows I'm long, I'm not telling anyone to go all in or all out I don't think posts on here make the slightest bit of difference, we are way beyond that now. The train has left the station and the driver is still drunk in the station bar. I'm just chatting to people about what I think. Getting more responses and replies from people who have other ideas and using this to shape my future decisions.

I'm already well past caring about whether I *lose everything* because for a long time now that's been impossible. The fact that people are up on here posting "advice" to sell is even more ridiculous to me than the suggestion that btc will be worth over half a million in just over a years time.

For the record, yes that chart does say over  1m in 3 years. It also says 250k the year later. It absolutely terrifies me to think how one might ride that out. Once again the figures aren't right, its the magnitude of the moves you might have to go through that is the message.

I've realized that taking your posts seriously was the problem. I find them much better now I view them as light entertainment. I can't believe I was so naive as to fall for it before! Still we can't always be perfect  Cheesy

I've realized that taking your posts seriously was the problem. I find them much better now I view them as light entertainment. I can't believe I was so naive as to fall for it before! Still we can't always be perfect  Cheesy

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
*my posts are not investment advice*
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October 06, 2015, 03:22:41 PM
 #497

All aboard! Wink

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
*my posts are not investment advice*
snowdropfore
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October 06, 2015, 03:30:13 PM
 #498

i have been on aboard for 3 years

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October 06, 2015, 03:38:28 PM
 #499

All aboard! Wink


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October 06, 2015, 08:19:58 PM
 #500

All aboard! Wink

Just because the price went up a few bucks?

I hope the best hasn't gone yet as I plan to enjoy this trip a little bit longer  Cheesy I will start to get excited once Bitstamp and Bitfinex break through the $250 level.
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