[Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation

[proudhon]

Oh god.

[1714055994]

1714055994

[tvbcof]

My bitcoin initial investments are paid off.

You beat me to this one (excepting a brief few days some months ago I guess)...

I'm prepared for whatever now.

...but I seem to have won this race.  Nice to be content, huh?

[Bitcoinica Consultancy]

Let me start off by saying the information in this post is gathered from already public statements, separate knowledge or, in individual cases has been preapproved. We have been disgusted by the fact that we cannot speak liberally. Once the reclaims process is finished, if we are not allowed to speak publicly we will stop all activity with bitcoinica.

Right now, we believe the best thing for all parties involved is that we continue with the reclaims process. We have investigated many of the claims but have many left. There were still claims being filed as of at least yesterday. Our intention is to have a secure platform where users can claim their accounts and everyone will be able to claims their accounts once the claims process is finished. We cannot offer a concrete timeline for exactly when this will happen but we are working as fast as possible. Please be patient. We are truly sorry for the grave inconveniences.



As for recent incidents:

We first got involved with Bitcoinica after we discovered a security vulnerability where we could liberally withdraw and empty bitcoinica's live wallet. It became apparent to us that the site was a poorly constructed security nightmare. We started talks with bitcoinica in the hopes that they would see us as being an indispensable asset to help secure their site. The site currently is far more secure then previously.

While Zhou has made a lot of public statements, I assume his doing so has violated agreement(s) which he may have. He has stated publicly that he does have some non-disclosure agreement. Many of his posts were either untrue or certainly misleading. Many of these posts were directed at us. After being confronted on the issue, he agreed not to post anymore. After breaking that promise only hours later, we confronted him again privately.

He posted an insincere and politically worded apology.

Within the apology he made it sound as though we were trying to stop him from posting. As if he had not respected some secrecy that we wished to maintain. This of course is entirely misleading. He also posted the link to the reclaims page before it was finished and without our consent. He also continued to make very important decisions without our consent which has effected our ability to recover. In fact, even as of the 17th, we were often still in the dark and learning things through Zhou's posts on the forums. We may decide later to take action against Zhou as he has offered no public recompense. He was the owner of bitcoinica, sold bitcoinica keeping earlier profits and it seems he was paid and that he was responsible for its security until at least very recently. We even hope to release our private conversations with him if there is deemed to be no liability for us doing so. These issues should never have been made public and we took many measures speaking with him many times so that it would not get to this level. Right now though this needs to be put on the back-burner. It is immaterial until the claims process if resolved.

As for the current owners of Bitcoinica, they have by far exceeded their legal obligations in helping Bitcoinica recover from the previous hack and have pledged their continued support in seeing this incident fully resolved. I am not sure they knew how insecure the site was when they first bought it. We applaud their generosity. The inability to disclose pertinent information however we vehemently disagree with. We believe this information is critical to restoring the trust a business like bitcoinica requires.

The only agreement I have signed is in last year, with a non-disclosure clause.

I have already apologised about the violation with a Skype message promise. And I confirm that all I stated was pure fact. (You are welcome to take legal actions against me if anything in the apology post in untrue.)  Sincerity is rather a subjective concern. I think I'm sincere.

In the past few days, I have been quite supportive about the account claim issue. I have communicated some ideas with Patrick.

I admit that the security features of the site are not up to standard. But the compromised system belongs to Bitcoinica Consultancy, and I have neither knowledge nor control. Being a target is the worst thing to have in the security world, and no system is 100% secure. The uncompromised systems are simply not the targets. Bitcoinica was not the initial target of the hacker.

These statements are not directed to Bitcoinica Consultancy. They are directed to facts. I officially grant Donald Norman the right to disclose any private communication on Skype between Donald and me in recent 14 days.

Unfortunately, disclosing the skype conversations of our group would would largely be in violation of our NDA. You know this though. We would also like to give much greater detail as to the nature of the incident but are not able to due to our inability to disclose information.

[shad0wbitz]

The only agreement I have signed is in last year, with a non-disclosure clause.

I have already apologised about the violation with a Skype message promise. And I confirm that all I stated was pure fact. (You are welcome to take legal actions against me if anything in the apology post in untrue.)  Sincerity is rather a subjective concern. I think I'm sincere.

In the past few days, I have been quite supportive about the account claim issue. I have communicated some ideas with Patrick.

I admit that the security features of the site are not up to standard. But the compromised system belongs to Bitcoinica Consultancy, and I have neither knowledge nor control. Being a target is the worst thing to have in the security world, and no system is 100% secure. The uncompromised systems are simply not the targets. Bitcoinica was not the initial target of the hacker.

These statements are not directed to Bitcoinica Consultancy. They are directed to facts. I officially grant Donald Norman the right to disclose any private communication on Skype between Donald and me in recent 14 days.

Yeah I don't see Zhou beating around the bushes. I do see the good folks at Intersango doing that. SO Zhou pretty much confirms that Intersango was in full control of Bitcoinica AND is the general partner for the LP (No direct confirmation, but he does state his statements on previous posts are true).

SO I understand you people have a vow of secrecy with the secret investor, but you COULD talk about bitcoin consultancy couldn't you?

By the way, how the fuck anybody will put a cent in bitcoinica when/if they reopen is beyond me, but I guess there are nimrods for everything.

[Smoovious]

... posted some stuff, including about how zhou wasn't representing them properly ...

... pushes back, again violating what is probably a standard NDA ...

um... did I see someone in here several posts back, with popcorn? and, can I get some of that?

-- Smoov

[shad0wbitz]

Unfortunately, disclosing the skype conversations of our group would would largely be in violation of our NDA. You know this though. We would also like to give much greater detail as to the nature of the incident but are not able to due to our inability to disclose information.

Zhou (aka my fearless little asian alter ego!), why don't you release the Skype logs since Bitcoinica Consultancy is reluctant to do so? C'mon, take one for the team!

[Bitcoinica Consultancy]

Unfortunately, disclosing the skype conversations of our group would would largely be in violation of our NDA. You know this though. We would also like to give much greater detail as to the nature of the incident but are not able to due to our inability to disclose information.

Zhou (aka my fearless little asian alter ego!), why don't you release the Skype logs since Bitcoinica Consultancy is reluctant to do so? C'mon, take one for the team!

We would have to advise against this. It is better to wait if and until we have permission to release the logs in full. Releasing the full logs now would certainly violate our NDA and I am sure his.

[Bitcoinica Consultancy]

I have already apologised about the violation with a Skype message promise. And I confirm that all I stated was pure fact. (You are welcome to take legal actions against me if anything in the apology post in untrue.)  Sincerity is rather a subjective concern. I think I'm sincere.

If total transparency is ever granted, people will be able to answer all their questions and they will know that this is a complete lie. I urge people to wait until they have all the information. While it may appear as though Zhou is being more forthcoming please do not mistake it for honesty.

[N12]

We would have to advise against this. It is better to wait if and until we have permission to release the logs in full. Releasing the full logs now would certainly violate our NDA and I am sure his.

This mystery investor sure is a pain.

Why the hell did you Intersango guys even choose to do business with such retards who will mute you? Or business with a guy who you can’t even work with?

if we are not allowed to speak publicly we will stop all activity with bitcoinica.

IMO you should never have started it. And IMO Bitcoinica should just die, reopening it will be a mistake.

[N12]

WHO can grant this transparency request?

The bagholder(s) zhoutong managed to pass Bitcoinica over to before it blew up.

The MYSTERY INVESTOR.

[guruvan]

SO, this is the "Statement" you referred to yesterday on IRC, Patrick?

I'm sorry, but this is more in an endless line of bullshit, stinking in the hot summer sun.

With every passing day, and statement, I lose more hope of seeing my dollars again. Already this is costing me opportunities. (but how much is bitcoinica earning on that cash while it sits? ) - As I've said previously, I've written that money off and moved on. I would be surprised if most claims were found to be "valid" - but that's just my skeptical nature, and large distrust of your whole team coming out.

"Restoring the trust in a business like bitcoinica" - man, in my eyes, you've lost the trust in you, and your whole team, and that accounts for at least three business names now. Returning the money won't go very far to restoring that. Returning the money is the least you should do, but after lies, delays, untruths, improper omissions, and whatever we've not learned yet, returning the money won't restore my trust.

This provided NO information about when we might see the return of our funds, and continued the finger pointing. The continued finger pointing raises yet another red flag about the behavior I've seen leading up to an immediately after this incident. Continued finger pointing erodes trust. I can't understand why you cannot understand this.

At the very least, it shows none of you are responsible enough to be trusted with other people's money.

And, IMO, the continued finger pointing suggests that you're hiding something more than just blatant irresponsibility. Why is it that Donald wanted to disclose everything, and you were insistent on not doing so, Patrick? WTF is really going on here?

[N12]

I can only quote myself.

Since there seem to be a few people with knowledge of who holds the majority in Bitcoinica, perhaps an anonymous doxxing might speed things up? Not to give anyone any ideas.

intersango and zhou should not be the target here...  

Correct. Intersango is just doing whatever the owner tells them to or NOT to. They are pawns.

The mysterious owner should be in focus here, and perhaps this Bitinstant guy who claims to know him. It is him who wants to leave us uninformed, not Intersango, not zhoutong.

[Crypt_Current]

...
By the way, how the fuck anybody will put a cent in bitcoinica when/if they reopen is beyond me, but I guess there are nimrods for everything.

[Crypt_Current]

We would have to advise against this. It is better to wait if and until we have permission to release the logs in full. Releasing the full logs now would certainly violate our NDA and I am sure his.

This mystery investor sure is a pain.

Why the hell did you Intersango guys even choose to do business with such retards who will mute you? Or business with a guy who you can’t even work with?

if we are not allowed to speak publicly we will stop all activity with bitcoinica.

IMO you should never have started it. And IMO Bitcoinica should just die, reopening it will be a mistake.

^ WOOOOORD, all that.

[Crypt_Current]

I can only quote myself.

Since there seem to be a few people with knowledge of who holds the majority in Bitcoinica, perhaps an anonymous doxxing might speed things up? Not to give anyone any ideas.

intersango and zhou should not be the target here...  

Correct. Intersango is just doing whatever the owner tells them to or NOT to. They are pawns.

The mysterious owner should be in focus here, and perhaps this Bitinstant guy who claims to know him. It is him who wants to leave us uninformed, not Intersango, not zhoutong.

Time for shitz to get fux0r3d
http://youtu.be/4KXJF58t30M

[guruvan]

i understand things get hacked and things go wrong, however the owner not stepping up and being open and honest about this is why i will never use the service again.

the policy of making everything secret in a troubled time is something that just pisses me off...

Yes. This exactly.

And after my conversation with Patrick on IRC, it seemed clear that he was one of the ones who wanted the secrecy.

I'm not sure one shouldn't focus on Intersango. It's run by some of the same people showing the poorest of judgement in this incident.

[zhoutong]

These statements are not directed to Bitcoinica Consultancy. They are directed to facts. I officially grant Donald Norman the right to disclose any private communication on Skype between Donald and me in recent 14 days.

Unfortunately, disclosing the skype conversations of our group would would largely be in violation of our NDA. You know this though. We would also like to give much greater detail as to the nature of the incident but are not able to due to our inability to disclose information.

I don't think there's any problem with the group conversation.

You only pointed out the problem to me privately, and the verbal promise is not in the group conversation later. i.e. If the private conversation didn't happen, I have done absolutely nothing wrong.

[Crypt_Current]

These statements are not directed to Bitcoinica Consultancy. They are directed to facts. I officially grant Donald Norman the right to disclose any private communication on Skype between Donald and me in recent 14 days.

Unfortunately, disclosing the skype conversations of our group would would largely be in violation of our NDA. You know this though. We would also like to give much greater detail as to the nature of the incident but are not able to due to our inability to disclose information.

I don't think there's any problem with the group conversation.

You only pointed out the problem to me privately, and the verbal promise is not in the group conversation later. i.e. If the private conversation didn't happen, I have done absolutely nothing wrong.

BOOM!

Bitcoinica took a lot of my money, and arguably all of it was due to my own gambling.  But I always believed in Zhou.  I know you'll do the right thing, buddy.

[Bitcoinica Consultancy]

I don't think there's any problem with the group conversation.

You only pointed out the problem to me privately, and the verbal promise is not in the group conversation later. i.e. If the private conversation didn't happen, I have done absolutely nothing wrong.

 

The group conversation would establish essentially the entire history of what happened and would conflict with some of your forum posts.

The whole private conversation was founded on your gross misrepresentations and inaccurate statements.

[Bitcoinica Consultancy]

If you get the consent to publish both in full please do. Realise that "cherry picking" though through a partial log might not be a smart long term strategy.