[Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation

[N12]

But simply, I gave up my sole ownership a long time ago, even before the Linode hack.

You want to tell us Bitcoinica is one of the most legit Bitcoin businesses while you leave its ownership in the shadows for a "long time" (months?!) and deceive us all? I always thought you were the sole owner, and I thought Intersango only very recently took over.

This was public knowledge a long, long time ago.

Surprised to hear this, where was a statement on this made by zhoutong/Bitcoinica?

[HorseRider]

It seems that we will be able to know everyone's position in the "mass leak".

[zhoutong]

But simply, I gave up my sole ownership a long time ago, even before the Linode hack.

You want to tell us Bitcoinica is one of the most legit Bitcoin businesses while you leave its ownership in the shadows for a "long time" (months?!) and deceive us all? I always thought you were the sole owner, and I thought Intersango only very recently took over.

I would assume responsibility for everything happened to Bitcoinica due to private transactions that were not announced.

Who is the owner isn't important. The important thing is who is liable for the customer deposits. If I hadn't announced the take-over and such thing happens, I would be 100% liable because people were trusting Bitcoinica because of my reputation. However, everyone knows that Intersango has taken over Bitcoinica so the assumed liability doesn't exist any more.

I apologize for the lack of transparency. But it really has nothing to do with legitimacy.

[muyuu]

But simply, I gave up my sole ownership a long time ago, even before the Linode hack.

You want to tell us Bitcoinica is one of the most legit Bitcoin businesses while you leave its ownership in the shadows for a "long time" (months?!) and deceive us all? I always thought you were the sole owner, and I thought Intersango only very recently took over.

I would assume responsibility for everything happened to Bitcoinica due to private transactions that were not announced.

Who is the owner isn't important. The important thing is who is liable for the customer deposits. If I hadn't announced the take-over and such thing happens, I would be 100% liable because people were trusting Bitcoinica because of my reputation. However, everyone knows that Intersango has taken over Bitcoinica so the assumed liability doesn't exist any more.

I apologize for the lack of transparency. But it really has nothing to do with legitimacy.

This is the single most important issue about modern finance that's making it so dangerous: people in charge of operations are not liable any more.

Maybe next to your user title "Founder & Lead Developer of Bitcoinica" you should add "*but not liable if sh*t happens".

When responsibility and power part ways, sh*t gets real for un-empowered parties (users in this case).

[Clipse]

Let me play it another way, How can anyone now be sure that you didnt setup the whole process to cashout profitably since you knew this wont last for you anymore ?

Since there is a certain lack of transparency and now apparently no liability on you side, this could just have been a massive cashout process for you and everyone else is holding a bag of shit ?

Of course the owner is important, if someone have a ton of money that may go the way of the DODO they would want to know who to hold accountable one way or another since its apparently not you anymore.

What I find most disturbing from your recent comments is the fact that you seem to think that it shouldnt matter who the owners are.

[muyuu]

- Likely we will either shut down the platform or re-develop entirely (which will take months instead of days).

Why would you need to re-develop for a compromised email server?

Maybe to use P2SH, Armory cold storage or some other secure means of transaction/storage from the ground up.

A good idea IMO, but if they don't reimburse users I don't think anyone would want to make business with them again. Trust is above tech in this business.

[zhoutong]

Let me play it another way, How can anyone now be sure that you didnt setup the whole process to cashout profitably since you knew this wont last for you anymore ?

Since there is a certain lack of transparency and now apparently no liability on you side, this could just have been a massive cashout process for you and everyone else is holding a bag of shit ?

Of course the owner is important, if someone have a ton of money that may go the way of the DODO they would want to know who to hold accountable one way or another since its apparently not you anymore.

I didn't have enough time for this business, and I have other commitments. That's why someone else takes over.

This is not about "won't last" or whatever. A hack is definitely unanticipated. You're saying that I predicted something like this would happen before I gave up my sole ownership, and it was hence worthwhile to forgo the doubling-every-month revenue.

The compromised email server has nothing to do with me, I have no knowledge of its presence until the accident happens.

I was being held accountable for everything before the announcement, but no longer the case after the announcement. It's simple.

[zhoutong]

- Likely we will either shut down the platform or re-develop entirely (which will take months instead of days).

Why would you need to re-develop for a compromised email server?

Maybe to use P2SH, Armory cold storage or some other secure means of transaction/storage from the ground up.

A good idea IMO, but if they don't reimburse users I don't think anyone would want to make business with them again. Trust is above tech in this business.

We will reimburse everyone in full. Bitcoinica is a limited partnership, not a teenager's experimental project.

[muyuu]

- Likely we will either shut down the platform or re-develop entirely (which will take months instead of days).

Why would you need to re-develop for a compromised email server?

Maybe to use P2SH, Armory cold storage or some other secure means of transaction/storage from the ground up.

A good idea IMO, but if they don't reimburse users I don't think anyone would want to make business with them again. Trust is above tech in this business.

We will reimburse everyone in full. Bitcoinica is a limited partnership, not a teenager's experimental project.

Does that include BTC or is it just US$ as you seemed to imply before?

[zhoutong]

- Likely we will either shut down the platform or re-develop entirely (which will take months instead of days).

Why would you need to re-develop for a compromised email server?

Maybe to use P2SH, Armory cold storage or some other secure means of transaction/storage from the ground up.

A good idea IMO, but if they don't reimburse users I don't think anyone would want to make business with them again. Trust is above tech in this business.

We will reimburse everyone in full. Bitcoinica is a limited partnership, not a teenager's experimental project.

Does that include BTC or is it just US$ as you seemed to imply before?

Everything. We will purchase BTC to return the funds if we don't have enough reserve.

[muyuu]

Everything. We will purchase BTC to return the funds if we don't have enough reserve.

I'm glad to hear that. I'm willing to believe you will keep your word.

[Clipse]

- Likely we will either shut down the platform or re-develop entirely (which will take months instead of days).

Why would you need to re-develop for a compromised email server?

Maybe to use P2SH, Armory cold storage or some other secure means of transaction/storage from the ground up.

A good idea IMO, but if they don't reimburse users I don't think anyone would want to make business with them again. Trust is above tech in this business.

We will reimburse everyone in full. Bitcoinica is a limited partnership, not a teenager's experimental project.

Does that include BTC or is it just US$ as you seemed to imply before?

Everything. We will purchase BTC to return the funds if we don't have enough reserve.

This answer makes it alot different to my previous views, if you do indeed make good on it.

My previous views were purely related to specific lack of transparency and possibly passing on the buck to someone else.

[imsaguy]

Let me play it another way, How can anyone now be sure that you didnt setup the whole process to cashout profitably since you knew this wont last for you anymore ?

Since there is a certain lack of transparency and now apparently no liability on you side, this could just have been a massive cashout process for you and everyone else is holding a bag of shit ?

Of course the owner is important, if someone have a ton of money that may go the way of the DODO they would want to know who to hold accountable one way or another since its apparently not you anymore.

What I find most disturbing from your recent comments is the fact that you seem to think that it shouldnt matter who the owners are.

THIS.

[zhoutong]

Let me play it another way, How can anyone now be sure that you didnt setup the whole process to cashout profitably since you knew this wont last for you anymore ?

Since there is a certain lack of transparency and now apparently no liability on you side, this could just have been a massive cashout process for you and everyone else is holding a bag of shit ?

Of course the owner is important, if someone have a ton of money that may go the way of the DODO they would want to know who to hold accountable one way or another since its apparently not you anymore.

What I find most disturbing from your recent comments is the fact that you seem to think that it shouldnt matter who the owners are.

THIS.

Why should it matter? As I said, if the ownership is not clear, the assumed owner should be liable. And the ownership should be clear.

[dizzy1]

Everything. We will purchase BTC to return the funds if we don't have enough reserve.

Thats good. Next question on everyone's mind is when will we be able to withdraw our funds?

[Clipse]

Let me play it another way, How can anyone now be sure that you didnt setup the whole process to cashout profitably since you knew this wont last for you anymore ?

Since there is a certain lack of transparency and now apparently no liability on you side, this could just have been a massive cashout process for you and everyone else is holding a bag of shit ?

Of course the owner is important, if someone have a ton of money that may go the way of the DODO they would want to know who to hold accountable one way or another since its apparently not you anymore.

What I find most disturbing from your recent comments is the fact that you seem to think that it shouldnt matter who the owners are.

THIS.

Why should it matter? As I said, if the ownership is not clear, the assumed owner should be liable. And the ownership should be clear.

Assumed owner doesnt mean shit when it gets dirty and possibly criminal. Only the REAL owner can be held accountable at that time, ASSUMED owners is nothing more than a mask when it comes to dealing with issues legally, I am sure you know this allready.

Also why is the ownership not clear? You keep stating you are the most legit and legal company, why not make it clear who the owner is unless its some blood money chinese mobsters then I guess it would make sense

Let me put it in another way, Assumptions is the mother of all fuckups.

[Realpra]

Lulz I have better security for my 2.14 coins and thought of buying more and hence the need to be even more secure!

Who trusts 4 email accounts with root access?

Seems like we have a new BitCoin rule of thumb: "A bitcoin site is not safe until it has been hacked at least once"

In this case, atleast twice ? or does the first linode invasion count as .5 ?

Yeah I know... I just wanted to sound cool.

[imsaguy]

Let me play it another way, How can anyone now be sure that you didnt setup the whole process to cashout profitably since you knew this wont last for you anymore ?

Since there is a certain lack of transparency and now apparently no liability on you side, this could just have been a massive cashout process for you and everyone else is holding a bag of shit ?

Of course the owner is important, if someone have a ton of money that may go the way of the DODO they would want to know who to hold accountable one way or another since its apparently not you anymore.

What I find most disturbing from your recent comments is the fact that you seem to think that it shouldnt matter who the owners are.

THIS.

Why should it matter? As I said, if the ownership is not clear, the assumed owner should be liable. And the ownership should be clear.

Why should it matter?  Much of this bitcoin economy is based on trust.  You should know that.

[Serge]

privately held and registered company doesn't have an obligation to disclose who its owners are. all that matters that Bitcoinaca LLC caries its liabilities before their customers.

[HorseRider]

privately held and registered company doesn't have an obligation to disclose who its owners are. all that matters that Bitcoinaca LLC caries its liabilities before their customers.

+1