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szuetam
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August 23, 2012, 09:07:30 AM
 #361

Or he bought it before selling bonds.
He just bought it before and sell rest of it in time you are talking about.
What wrong is with that?
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piotr_n
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August 23, 2012, 09:11:37 AM
 #362

Or he bought it before selling bonds.
He just bought it before and sell rest of it in time you are talking about.
What wrong is with that?
He doesn't need to buy before selling - he is the bonds' issuer and he has unlimited number of them.
The only thing that counts is this number: https://glbse.com/api/quantity_trading/TYGRR.BOND-P - total number of bonds own by anyone except Goat.
And according to his own contract, this number had no right to change since the BS&T close down was announced.

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Nefario
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August 23, 2012, 09:15:36 AM
 #363

Second that troll is a troll. He is on my ignore list... I have been buying these bonds at a good discount. I currently have bids in. This guy is just a troll with FUD.
You have no honor whatsoever, you fucking liar.

GLBSE API don't lie.
But if it is not enough for you, we can always ask Nefario to check if you have sold any TYGRR.BOND-P since Pirate announced the close down.
Because if you haven't - it means GLBSE's API is broken...
So, should I file the bug report? Smiley

Yeah, Ask Nefario. I did not sell any P bonds, however I did buy...

Once you ask I expect an apology...  

In answer to this, Goat hasn't sold any of the P bonds since last month, and even then the numbers were tiny.

edit.

On further investigation, around 350 assets were transferred.

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unclescrooge
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August 23, 2012, 09:17:19 AM
 #364

Thanks Nefario.

Goat, sorry about that, I'll try to not feed the troll next time :/

piotr_n
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August 23, 2012, 09:36:52 AM
 #365

Thanks Nefario.

Goat, sorry about that, I'll try to not feed the troll next time :/
Read again
~350 shares were transferred out of the Goat's account, after the Pirate's announcement.

Technically he maybe did not "sell" it, but obviously he did not transfer 350 shares to somebody else, just for a fun of it.

I told you GLBSE API doesn't lie - unlike Goat Smiley

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Nefario
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August 23, 2012, 11:19:21 AM
 #366

When did pirate announce he was ending BS&T?

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szuetam
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August 23, 2012, 11:25:50 AM
 #367

WTF?
How could you dont know?
Nefario
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August 23, 2012, 11:27:31 AM
 #368

When did pirate announce he was ending BS&T?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101339.0

August 17, 2012, 12:07:43 PM

The Goat has done nothing wrong, his transfer was in the 16th.

Since that time, as he has said he has been buying up TYGRR.BOND-P.

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WTF?
How could you dont know?

Because I'm busy running a business, not following what everyone else is doing. I'm only posting on this thread in answer to a request to do so.

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Nefario
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August 23, 2012, 11:55:00 AM
 #369

The post that started it all happened then, but it took a bit for pirate to officially quit,
August 16, 2012, 06:08:04 PM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101152.msg1105446#msg1105446


I still don't see this as a big issue, Goat could have sold an absolute ton of shares at that time.

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unclescrooge
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August 23, 2012, 11:56:48 AM
 #370

Yes there's no issue, just some trolling to induce FUD about Goat.

Thanks for stepping in Nefario Smiley

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August 23, 2012, 11:58:04 AM
 #371

Prempting piotr_: nefario must have been paid off by goat!

No need to troll here anymore, piotr_n. All done.

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piotr_n
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August 23, 2012, 11:58:29 AM
 #372

Whatever.

I know what I saw - there were less than 28k assets on the market AFTER the 17th, 28101 yesterday and 28107 now.

I know because I have been explicitly checking for it.

So I don't know who is lying and why, or is at a GLBSE bug, but I know that I am not crazy.
And I don't give a shit if you believe me or not - suit yourself believing in whatever you want.

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szuetam
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August 23, 2012, 12:14:42 PM
 #373

Next time when suspicious to that publish first number before increasing and ask someone for confirmation before rising.
Of course I know it wasn't intention because you couldn't know, but for future, anyone would doubt in that in that case.

Last but not least, I didn't said I don't believe you Smiley
piotr_n
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August 23, 2012, 12:17:30 PM
 #374

Next time when suspicious to that publish first number before increasing and ask someone for confirmation before rising.
Just to prove to myself that I'm not crazy?
No need - I have a good memory and, as I said, I don't care about the people who don't believe me.

And one more thing: I said in the other thread that I do trust Nefario - now I'm taking it back Smiley

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piotr_n
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August 23, 2012, 12:40:16 PM
 #375

piotr_n  - It should be noted that the timestamps I provided on those posts are set to my local zone.
Nefario may have a different stamp, Is this something Nefario took into consideration?
Not sure if that would close the gap or not, just something that popped into my mind.
Wherever the reason is, until he gives me a reasonable explanation for what I have seen at GLBSE, I don't trust him anymore.
But if he chooses his reputation to go down to zero, to the point where Goat's reputation is already - I respect his choice. Smiley

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Nefario
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August 23, 2012, 12:53:37 PM
 #376

piotr_n  - It should be noted that the timestamps I provided on those posts are set to my local zone.
Nefario may have a different stamp, Is this something Nefario took into consideration?
Not sure if that would close the gap or not, just something that popped into my mind.
Wherever the reason is, until he gives me a reasonable explanation for what I have seen, I don't trust him anymore.
If he wants his reputation to go down to zero, to the point where Goat's reputation is already - I respect his choice. Smiley

Don't start dragging me into your conspiracy theories.

You contacted me asking for details, pointing to the thread where goat says OK.

I provided details and not only are you still not happy, you're trying to insinuate that I'm wrapped up in some scam involving Goat.

I don't know if you've ever heard of Google but you can search nefario and goat and you will find that we're not exactly on the most pleasant of terms.

I'm not terribly interested in what you remember a particular number on a particular date, frankly if it was so important why didn't you write it down, that number by the way comes from the API thats not published.

The fact is, Goat hasn't sold or transferred out any of this asset since Pirate made his announcement(as stated before he's been buying them). Trying to poke holes in this, with numbers that "you remember" and have "changed" over the last few weeks means nothing.

I'm done with this thread.

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piotr_n
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August 23, 2012, 01:11:14 PM
 #377

piotr_n  - It should be noted that the timestamps I provided on those posts are set to my local zone.
Nefario may have a different stamp, Is this something Nefario took into consideration?
Not sure if that would close the gap or not, just something that popped into my mind.
Wherever the reason is, until he gives me a reasonable explanation for what I have seen, I don't trust him anymore.
If he wants his reputation to go down to zero, to the point where Goat's reputation is already - I respect his choice. Smiley

Don't start dragging me into your conspiracy theories.

You contacted me asking for details, pointing to the thread where goat says OK.

I provided details and not only are you still not happy, you're trying to insinuate that I'm wrapped up in some scam involving Goat.

I don't know if you've ever heard of Google but you can search nefario and goat and you will find that we're not exactly on the most pleasant of terms.

I'm not terribly interested in what you remember a particular number on a particular date, frankly if it was so important why didn't you write it down, that number by the way comes from the API thats not published.

The fact is, Goat hasn't sold or transferred out any of this asset since Pirate made his announcement(as stated before he's been buying them). Trying to poke holes in this, with numbers that "you remember" and have "changed" over the last few weeks means nothing.

I'm done with this thread.

The fact that I am dragging you into my conspiracy theories is just a consequence of you refusing to answer my PMs.
You wanted it public - you've got it.

What you are saying Nefario just doesn't add up.
Why would be Goat transferring the assets out last Thursday, if at that point the market price was below 1BTC and he was actually pretending to be buying the bonds back?
There are several people here who were about to send him their bonds for a buy-back... some of them even already did it.
All the proofs are in the thread.

And if there is something wrong with the "API thats not published", you can always check out a backup from the last weekend and see it.
I did not write it down, but I am not insane I know what I saw: it was less than 28k - in fact it was even less than 27895 (the last div amount).

Also, since this is all about business, I don't think it matters if you like Goat or not - either way his business makes a big part of your profit.
So you have an actual incentive to defend his reputation, or whatever is left from it.
At least in a short term, beacuse in a long term pleasing the crook will likely turn against you.

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organofcorti
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August 23, 2012, 01:20:30 PM
 #378

The fact that I am dragging you into my conspiracy theories - is just a consequence of you refusing to answer my PMs.

Good god! You have a conspiracy hypothesis, not a conspiracy theory!

Hypothesis: a proposed explanation for a phenomenon.
Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses. I'm assuming nefario is a natural phenomenon here. He could be an AI though.

You'd need proof of your hypothesis to graduate your ideas to a "Conspiracy theory". Right now you have "i kinda remember ..."

Please use appropriate conspiracy nomenclature. Next you'll be referring to U.F.Os instead of UFOs, and "Aluminum foil hats" instead of "tinfoil hats".

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Nefario
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August 23, 2012, 02:06:30 PM
 #379

Dividend record shows this many shares

2012-08-14 14:55   27895

Transferring shares from the issuer account adds it to the amount of active shares, the amount transferred was around 350

350+27895=28245

Currently active(i.e. shares outside the issuers account) shares are 28107

Since the announcement goat has been buying shares, equivalent to the difference.

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What you are saying Nefario just doesn't add up

So please tell me again what doesn't add up?

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piotr_n
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August 23, 2012, 02:15:31 PM
 #380

Dividend record shows this many shares

2012-08-14 14:55   27895

Transferring shares from the issuer account adds it to the amount of active shares, the amount transferred was around 350

350+27895=28245

Currently active(i.e. shares outside the issuers account) shares are 28107

Since the announcement goat has been buying shares, equivalent to the difference.

Quote
What you are saying Nefario just doesn't add up

So please tell me again what doesn't add up?
What doesn't add up is the time when he transferred the "about 350" shares in the alleged single transaction.

First because during the weekend the number was still less than 28000 - I know what I saw and I remember since I checked it explicitly, just after reading this post, which gave me an idea that he was up to something.

Second, because it would be completely irrational for him to sell 350 shares, at the moment when the market price of these bonds was below 1.0 - for which he would have to deposit 350BTC into BS&T and pay the whole week's divs next Tuesday.

Or it would be completely irrational for the buyer, who could have bought these bonds at the market for <1.0 BTC...

So, would you maybe tell us who was that clever/stupid to buy these 350 shares from him on Thursday?
Or should we guess that it was just a gift... because as we all know, Goat is all about giving Smiley

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