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brendio
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August 27, 2012, 09:49:28 PM
 #401

Goat, maybe you should do your personal buying and selling in your personal account, not the asset account, do that it doesn't affect the assets trading figure, for what it's worth.

Disclosure: That's how I do it with BIB.PIRATE and FOO.PPPPT, so that my account balance at BS&T will always equal = total issued BIB.PIRATE + total issued FOO.PPPPT + total private deposits. Any trading done on my personal account does not affect this formula (except for issuance and redemption).

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btharper
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August 28, 2012, 03:52:05 AM
 #402

Pirate has not told me anything personally.

Brendio, Thanks for the idea but I do not like doing that. There is nothing at all wrong with what you do and its perfectly fine but I do not want to have a second account and I do not want to make it look like I have anything to hide.

For everyone, there are 40,000 bonds issued. I can sell all of them as my BTCST account is over 40,000 BTC.  Now what you need to worry about is if I start making new bonds and selling them over the 40,000.

I have both bids and asks on this bond and about 20 others. Buy low, Sell high...


Many people here on the forum do not like me because I am blunt and can be a cock. However people who have worked with me will know that I am honest Smiley

Crazy people who think Nefario is covering for me to steal 200 BTC is well.. Crazy...
Second that troll is a troll. He is on my ignore list... I have been buying these bonds at a good discount. I currently have bids in. This guy is just a troll with FUD.
You have no honor whatsoever, you fucking liar.

GLBSE API don't lie.
But if it is not enough for you, we can always ask Nefario to check if you have sold any TYGRR.BOND-P since Pirate announced the close down.
Because if you haven't - it means GLBSE's API is broken...
So, should I file the bug report? Smiley

Yeah, Ask Nefario. I did not sell any P bonds, however I did buy...

Once you ask I expect an apology... 
-and-
Dividend record shows this many shares

2012-08-14 14:55   27895

Transferring shares from the issuer account adds it to the amount of active shares, the amount transferred was around 350

350+27895=28245

Currently active(i.e. shares outside the issuers account) shares are 28107

Since the announcement goat has been buying shares, equivalent to the difference.

Quote
What you are saying Nefario just doesn't add up

So please tell me again what doesn't add up?
and I currently see 28864 shares trading according to the API

While you're by no means required to operate the accounts separately your comments and previous explanations look shady and mean that each time it goes up you have to explain why it wasn't at it's maximum earlier. Assuming the full 40,000 shares issued on GLBSE are accounted for with deposits with Pirate (No way to verify this information, so I can only take your word at face value) that's the number for piotr_n to watch for an increase.

For what it's worth, the spikes in price do look like someone could be making a killing buying and selling these if they bought and sold at the right times.

For my two cents:
As for Nefario, my experience is that he's always been a great pick to run GLBSE, has always been upfront and honest, and on and on. He attempted to verify Goat's statements (and Goat's previous statements and Nefario's statements corroborate 28245 trading shares without any further explanation). However piotr_n, you've given him nothing but grief for his efforts to quell the shitstorm (For his part, the number increasing again and new explanation don't help Goat's case either).

From what I can see Goat was not transparent and piotr_n has called him on this, Goat doesn't owe anyone transparency and since there's no way to verify his total investment with pirate, any interested parties can either believe him or not. Further, since there's an obvious economic reason (profit!!) to trading shares of pirate's debt, and nothing to prevent him from doing so with the information he's provided, I see no reason Goat can't continue making a profit even if it looks a little funny.

Hopefully my post looks fairly objective, if you disagree, please let me know in a reply and I'll elaborate.
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August 28, 2012, 04:04:56 AM
 #403

Pirate has not told me anything personally.

...

I have both bids and asks on this bond and about 20 others. Buy low, Sell high...


Trading when you have no advantage is just trading, even though insider trading is usually frowned upon.

I know GLBSE is the wild west but...

What's going to happen, Goat, when/if pirate pays you? 

Will you immediately go to GLBSE and buy up all the asks priced below the buyback amount?  Doing that would be quite profitable for you, but fuel some more bad blood around here.

I suggest that instead you have Nef freeze trading as quickly as possible, and follow that with the buyback asap.

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August 28, 2012, 05:58:53 AM
 #404

thankfully free market works both ways
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August 28, 2012, 06:38:34 AM
 #405

Goat, maybe you should do your personal buying and selling in your personal account, not the asset account, do that it doesn't affect the assets trading figure, for what it's worth.

Disclosure: That's how I do it with BIB.PIRATE and FOO.PPPPT, so that my account balance at BS&T will always equal = total issued BIB.PIRATE + total issued FOO.PPPPT + total private deposits. Any trading done on my personal account does not affect this formula (except for issuance and redemption).

Here is a feature request I made to GLBSE to keep both parts of the trades happy and informed:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74049.msg1033952#msg1033952

Mark security issuers Buy Bid and Ask Sell orders with a different color in the order book.

If you like the idea, go and "vote" for it in GLBSE thread by quoting it.




While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
piotr_n
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August 28, 2012, 06:54:58 AM
 #406

they will soon be worth 1.068 BTC yeah..
check up your BS&T account - the second week has passed and the interests have compounded at your account.
so, if he does pay out, the bonds are already worth 1.068^2 = 1.140624 BTC
one week from now, they will be worth 1.068^3 = 1.218186432 BTC
keep selling them at the current price - dump all the 40000 onto the market ASAP, to provide the so much needed liquidity - I'm begging you! Smiley

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
Rockefoten
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August 28, 2012, 10:28:23 AM
 #407

I highly highly doubt I will be the first to know and that is why my bonds thatI ahve for sale are very limited.

However let us just say that not only does pirate send me the funds and I can get them to GLBSE (something that takes an hour) with out anyone else noticing they will soon be worth 1.068 BTC yeah.. I will buy them because freemarket. If you do not want to risk your bonds being sold for your asking price do not ask for that price!

From this I read that you don't view your lenders/investors (bond holders) as "customers" for whom you're trying to provide the best possible service. Instead, you view them as competitors in a free market, competitors you try to beat, for instance by buying back bonds cheaply after having received repayment from Pirate.
I think this is interesting information for anyone holding any of your bonds.

If my accepting your offer will piss you off honestly I could care less.  I have no insider information and I am making it very clear I am both buying and selling these bonds.
For the period from you've received repayment from Pirate, until this is made known to your bond holders, I'd say that you do have inside information. Of course, if as I suggest you view your bond holders as competitors, it is in your interest to take advantage of this information by buying bonds before making this information public, as you have stated that you would do.
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August 28, 2012, 10:41:39 AM
 #408

+1

szuetam
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August 28, 2012, 10:56:44 AM
 #409

I think if you would do sth. else it would be stupid or make me think that this is something hidden, and dishonest.
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August 28, 2012, 12:11:48 PM
 #410

I think it's actually good, that he acts as a "market maker" and holds the investment liquid.
In real world it is completely normal to have a market maker. Yes, there is a difference -  usually you do not act as market maker for your own security Smiley
If security issuers bid/ask are identified on the order book, we have almost eliminated the chance for hidden manipulation.
It's up to every trader,  how they react to buy or sell orders from issuer.
I think it adds more transparency.


   

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
piotr_n
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August 28, 2012, 01:09:30 PM
 #411

If I wanted to hide my "manipulation" I would just have a second account.
Second account wouldn't help you anyhow to hide your scam of dumping empty PPT bonds onto the market.

Unless your bitch would have change the API - so the system would lie about your scam.

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
flower1024
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August 28, 2012, 01:17:04 PM
 #412

If I wanted to hide my "manipulation" I would just have a second account.
Second account wouldn't help you anyhow to hide your scam of dumping empty PPT bonds onto the market.

Unless your bitch would have change the API - so the system would lie about your scam.

lol
you start to amuse me Wink
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August 28, 2012, 01:18:36 PM
 #413

If I wanted to hide my "manipulation" I would just have a second account.
Second account wouldn't help you anyhow to hide your scam of dumping empty PPT bonds onto the market.

Unless your bitch would have change the API - so the system would lie about your scam.

lol
you start to amuse me Wink
I can only assume that that is the reason why piotr's ignore link doesn't glow red and flash.
piotr_n
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August 28, 2012, 01:21:23 PM
 #414

If I wanted to hide my "manipulation" I would just have a second account.
Second account wouldn't help you anyhow to hide your scam of dumping empty PPT bonds onto the market.

Unless your bitch would have change the API - so the system would lie about your scam.

lol
you start to amuse me Wink
I can only assume that that is the reason why piotr's ignore link doesn't glow red and flash.

I wise man once said:
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

You are a bunch of fucking suckers - that's all you are.
The guy is screwing you all over, however he likes, laughing right into your face - and you are so happy with it..  Roll Eyes

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
flower1024
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August 28, 2012, 01:23:16 PM
 #415

If I wanted to hide my "manipulation" I would just have a second account.
Second account wouldn't help you anyhow to hide your scam of dumping empty PPT bonds onto the market.

Unless your bitch would have change the API - so the system would lie about your scam.

lol
you start to amuse me Wink
I can only assume that that is the reason why piotr's ignore link doesn't glow red and flash.

I wise man once said:
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

You are a bunch of fucking suckers - that's all you are.
The guy is screwing you all over, however he likes, laughing right into your face - and you are so happy with it..  Roll Eyes

i was never screwed by goat.
i did even buy some of his -B bond at very low prices.

luckily i never ignore anybody so i guess i can only win Cheesy
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August 28, 2012, 02:49:44 PM
 #416

I am clearly out for the best interest of the bond holders. I am doing what they asked.

A week ago I wanted to lock down trading on the bond but people in this thread asked me not to. No one asked me to lock down trading.

So people want to trade and people want liquidity. I am helping them with this.

If people do not want their bonds sold they should not offer them up for sale. Why should I not take part in the speculation just because I issued the bonds? This is not a children's game where I am here to protect you from yourself.

It is very silly for people to demand that we let the stock trade and then cry out when, shock, trading happens...

If you do not want your bonds sold then please do not offer them for sale. I assure you I will not buy any bonds that are not offered up for sale!


If pirate does send and I get the coins to GLBSE I will be buying all of the bonds offered for sale. I'm not going to wait for people to adjust their book.

Again if you do not want your bonds sold please do not list them for sale!
 

I do agree with your decision to allow trading of the bond, as this allows those who believe there will be no payment to sell their bonds to limit their loss, and those who believe in repayment to gamble on this. No disagreement here.

Regarding you speculating on your own assets, I am not saying what you should or shouldn't. I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am just saying that I personally (and from the feedback it seems to be only me...) would not put money into an asset where I knew the issuer was trading/speculating against his own investors, because the issuer is more or less guaranteed to win because of the information gap that will exist between issuer and investor. The issuer will always know more than the investors about what is going on with the asset. In this particular instance, the issuer (you) will probably know more about the Pirate situation than most others, and in the case of a repayment of your account at Pirate's, you will most certainly know before everyone else. So speculating against you brings very little chance of winning.

Furthermore, by speculating on your own security, your interests are suddenly the opposite of your investors'. I would not want to buy or hold an asset where that is the case. But again, I am not trying to say what is right or wrong. I am just expressing what kinds of investing situations I'm trying to avoid.
And yes, you are very open about this so people know what their getting into at this point so those speculating on this bond at this moment shouldn't complain.

And just to be clear, I do not hold any of your bonds anymore. I sold at 0.6-0.8 in the time after the announcement from Pirate.
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August 28, 2012, 03:19:55 PM
 #417

If I wanted to hide my "manipulation" I would just have a second account.
Second account wouldn't help you anyhow to hide your scam of dumping empty PPT bonds onto the market.

Unless your bitch would have change the API - so the system would lie about your scam.

lol
you start to amuse me Wink
I can only assume that that is the reason why piotr's ignore link doesn't glow red and flash.

I wise man once said:
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

You are a bunch of fucking suckers - that's all you are.
The guy is screwing you all over, however he likes, laughing right into your face - and you are so happy with it..  Roll Eyes

I don't actually have any TYGRR shares, I'm just here for the lulz.
And yes, you do bring up some good points every once in awhile in your vitriol laced posts. It's just that you're a jackass in all of them.
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August 28, 2012, 03:25:22 PM
 #418

I don't actually have any TYGRR shares, I'm just here for the lulz.
And yes, you do bring up some good points every once in awhile in your vitriol laced posts. It's just that you're a jackass in all of them.
Jackass, troll, piotr_n - or whatever.
The words you call me - they mean nothing for me.

Now I'm only here to speak up the truth.
And for all you suckers out there who are jumping onto me now, I can promise to each single one of you that I will come back here one day, just to say the words: I told you so!

29130 now - still 10870 to go... You're doing just great, Goat! Smiley

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
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August 28, 2012, 04:33:25 PM
 #419

I am clearly out for the best interest of the bond holders. I am doing what they asked.

A week ago I wanted to lock down trading on the bond but people in this thread asked me not to. No one asked me to lock down trading.

So people want to trade and people want liquidity. I am helping them with this.

If people do not want their bonds sold they should not offer them up for sale. Why should I not take part in the speculation just because I issued the bonds? This is not a children's game where I am here to protect you from yourself.

It is very silly for people to demand that we let the stock trade and then cry out when, shock, trading happens...

If you do not want your bonds sold then please do not offer them for sale. I assure you I will not buy any bonds that are not offered up for sale!


If pirate does send and I get the coins to GLBSE I will be buying all of the bonds offered for sale. I'm not going to wait for people to adjust their book.

Again if you do not want your bonds sold please do not list them for sale!
 

I do agree with your decision to allow trading of the bond, as this allows those who believe there will be no payment to sell their bonds to limit their loss, and those who believe in repayment to gamble on this. No disagreement here.

Regarding you speculating on your own assets, I am not saying what you should or shouldn't. I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am just saying that I personally (and from the feedback it seems to be only me...) would not put money into an asset where I knew the issuer was trading/speculating against his own investors, because the issuer is more or less guaranteed to win because of the information gap that will exist between issuer and investor. The issuer will always know more than the investors about what is going on with the asset. In this particular instance, the issuer (you) will probably know more about the Pirate situation than most others, and in the case of a repayment of your account at Pirate's, you will most certainly know before everyone else. So speculating against you brings very little chance of winning.

Furthermore, by speculating on your own security, your interests are suddenly the opposite of your investors'. I would not want to buy or hold an asset where that is the case. But again, I am not trying to say what is right or wrong. I am just expressing what kinds of investing situations I'm trying to avoid.
And yes, you are very open about this so people know what their getting into at this point so those speculating on this bond at this moment shouldn't complain.

And just to be clear, I do not hold any of your bonds anymore. I sold at 0.6-0.8 in the time after the announcement from Pirate.

unless Goat has one of the oldest btcst accounts and going to be repaid before anybody else he doesn't have much of an edge against everybody else. as soon news gets out that pirate is doing payments on irc and the forums, ALL PPTs at discount rate will be bought out instantly, Goat or not.  it's a fair game
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August 28, 2012, 04:37:29 PM
 #420

I don't actually have any TYGRR shares, I'm just here for the lulz.
And yes, you do bring up some good points every once in awhile in your vitriol laced posts. It's just that you're a jackass in all of them.
Jackass, troll, piotr_n - or whatever.
The words you call me - they mean nothing for me.

Now I'm only here to speak up the truth.
And for all you suckers out there who are jumping onto me now, I can promise to each single one of you that I will come back here one day, just to say the words: I told you so!

29130 now - still 10870 to go... You're doing just great, Goat! Smiley

given the circumstances, what do you suggest current bond holder should do?
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