GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[jimmothy]

That's pretty strange considering ~11.5m coins haven't been touched in the past 5 days.

GAW doesn't own the customer wallets... they just host them.  

How exactly does GAW host customer wallets without owning them?

If 60% are out of their control, then there isn't a possibility of 51% from the primes colluding.

52% of the 50 primes would only require 26% of all coins.

I find it extremely unlikely that GAW does not control 26 primes.

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[suchmoon]

That's pretty strange considering ~11.5m coins haven't been touched in the past 5 days.

GAW doesn't own the customer wallets... they just host them.  If 60% are out of their control, then there isn't a possibility of 51% from the primes colluding.

How do I get my private key from ZenCloud?

Just transfer the coins to a wallet on your PC.

I know I can do that, I'm just verifying puwaha's statement how GAW doesn't own the hosted customer wallets - do I have a private key of my ZenCloud wallet? I don't think so, therefore GAW owns it.

[puwaha]

Yeah, I don't see any built-in security against a 51% attack specifically in the code.  But the attack still requires collusion between a majority of prime controllers, and a bad actor(s) can be ejected from the network.  All it takes is one prime to call a vote for ejection.  So theoretically, GAW (or the collusion group) would have to own 100% of the prime controllers.  After the ejection, Orion controllers can bid to become prime, thereby also securing against collusion.

And what if the bad actor is GAW who controls 100% of the prime controllers?

I'm still puzzled by this whole orion-bidding-prime process. Shouldn't it all be a transparent and cryptographically verifiable process? Otherwise why bother calling it a crypto currency.

In other words, let's say I buy 125k coins on Cryptsy (or maybe my name is Craig). How can I apply to host a Prime controller? This all starts in a few hours, and there doesn't seem to be any concern from anybody (us trolls don't count) that nothing is known about it

After POS starts, setup an orion controller, and then you can bid for an open prime controller spot.  Before POS starts, contact GAW, they can help you with the details of the prime controller.

[puwaha]

That's pretty strange considering ~11.5m coins haven't been touched in the past 5 days.

GAW doesn't own the customer wallets... they just host them.  If 60% are out of their control, then there isn't a possibility of 51% from the primes colluding.

How do I get my private key from ZenCloud?

Do you get your private key from any other cloud hosted wallet?  Did you get your private key from any exchanges you do business with?  If you don't like that your coins are hosted at ZenCloud, move them to your private wallet.

[puwaha]

Can I prove that the prime controllers exist?  No.  But POS hasn't started yet.  Prime controllers don't have anything to do with the network during POW.

Sounds like a hard fork would be needed to put them in place and we have less than 9 hours till the end of POW. Hopefully the network can still function with regular staking until this is implemented. We'll see soon enough.

No hard fork needed.  POW just needs to end at the timestamp.

And then what? If the code for Prime Controllers is not there yet how does it get put in place without a hard fork?

Eh?  The code for prime controllers is already in place.  Where are you going with this?

[suchmoon]

That's pretty strange considering ~11.5m coins haven't been touched in the past 5 days.

GAW doesn't own the customer wallets... they just host them.  If 60% are out of their control, then there isn't a possibility of 51% from the primes colluding.

How do I get my private key from ZenCloud?

Do you get your private key from any other cloud hosted wallet?  Did you get your private key from any exchanges you do business with?  If you don't like that your coins are hosted at ZenCloud, move them to your private wallet.

We are still talking about this: "GAW doesn't own the customer wallets". They do if they own the private keys.

[puwaha]

Unlike the smartphone which has loads of unique/useful features, Paycoin has no features other than the promise of getting rich quick.

The coin will have useful features, such as escrow, hashspace messaging, time-based contracts, voting and more.  None of this is unique, but it's packaged all together to make the coin more useful.

Oh it will? Are you a fortune teller?

LOL.

My magic Chrystal ball is telling me GAW will do what they've always done and bullshit their way to success without actually doing anything.

So... it's safe to say that anything you state is BS as well?  I'm not following your train of thought.

GAW couldn't even build their own coin so they had to completely rip off an existing coin, you actually think they will be implementing any bitcoin 2.0 features?

You know what they say about imitation and flattery?

I get it.  Everything that GAW touches is crap in your eyes.

The only way that happens is if paycoin survives long enough for GAW to copy/paste the features from bitcoin.

Where are these new features in bitcoin?

With bitcoin, the network is controlled by whoever owns the most hashrate. Anyone can build ASICS if they have the money.

With paycoin, the network is controlled by whoever owns the most paycoins. GAW premined 95% of those coins and you just have to trust that they are delivered to other people.

One system is built upon trusting math, the other is built upon trusting a serial bullshitter.

Point taken.

[suchmoon]

Can I prove that the prime controllers exist?  No.  But POS hasn't started yet.  Prime controllers don't have anything to do with the network during POW.

Sounds like a hard fork would be needed to put them in place and we have less than 9 hours till the end of POW. Hopefully the network can still function with regular staking until this is implemented. We'll see soon enough.

No hard fork needed.  POW just needs to end at the timestamp.

And then what? If the code for Prime Controllers is not there yet how does it get put in place without a hard fork?

Eh?  The code for prime controllers is already in place.  Where are you going with this?

The source code is not available on github anymore, so I have to rely on this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg9823047#msg9823047

Doesn't sound like it's in place?

[T0urist]

Yeah, I don't see any built-in security against a 51% attack specifically in the code.  But the attack still requires collusion between a majority of prime controllers, and a bad actor(s) can be ejected from the network.  All it takes is one prime to call a vote for ejection.  So theoretically, GAW (or the collusion group) would have to own 100% of the prime controllers.  After the ejection, Orion controllers can bid to become prime, thereby also securing against collusion.

And what if the bad actor is GAW who controls 100% of the prime controllers?

I'm still puzzled by this whole orion-bidding-prime process. Shouldn't it all be a transparent and cryptographically verifiable process? Otherwise why bother calling it a crypto currency.

In other words, let's say I buy 125k coins on Cryptsy (or maybe my name is Craig). How can I apply to host a Prime controller? This all starts in a few hours, and there doesn't seem to be any concern from anybody (us trolls don't count) that nothing is known about it

Consider this for a minute too suchmoon. Consider that Prime Controllers, orion thingies etc don't and never will exist. Imagine for a second that its possible that Josh will have the bidding open in subtracted for wallets for absolutely nothing. Those coins taken from the clients will be used to fund their stakes back as well as remove the coins from possible sell backs limiting liability.

Josh would likely in this scenario cover himself by releasing a new wallet but "refuse" to push the source for the prime and orion controllers stating its a risk to the customers if the source is available to attack. His victims and investors will eat that shit up because they'll be like yay for josh he's protecting us. It'll be a cover though. Its a win win... don't show the source so nobody can invalidate his claims and he sucks paycoins back without work done (and removes an element of cash backs @ $20 floor).

He'll please everyone by finding some blog setup by a mate to audit his source code and say the prime controller stuff is there.

We keep the circle going... gaw supporters say no proof and we say well show us some that it is there... they say look at the wsj blog.

This is what i think will happen next. There is NO prime controllers.... the source code is just a clone and there WON'T be this added functionality. As long as it "appears" there is a bidding process and peoples zen accounts have some icon or graphic that says you bought a prime controller with successful bid of 1 million paycoin people will be appeased.

Here we go again.... strap yourself in for the next round of victims.

[puwaha]

That's pretty strange considering ~11.5m coins haven't been touched in the past 5 days.

GAW doesn't own the customer wallets... they just host them.  If 60% are out of their control, then there isn't a possibility of 51% from the primes colluding.

How do I get my private key from ZenCloud?

Just transfer the coins to a wallet on your PC.

I know I can do that, I'm just verifying puwaha's statement how GAW doesn't own the hosted customer wallets - do I have a private key of my ZenCloud wallet? I don't think so, therefore GAW owns it.

So you are saying you don't trust GAW?  You are asking another rhetorical question to prove what point?  GAW doesn't control the coins in customer wallets, they cannot stake with them, which is all that matters when POS starts.  It's up to the customer to decide to trust GAW with their coins in a cloud-based wallet, which they can easily remove and stake on their own personal wallet.  Or they can build an orion controller, and stake publicly.

[T0urist]

Can I prove that the prime controllers exist?  No.  But POS hasn't started yet.  Prime controllers don't have anything to do with the network during POW.

Sounds like a hard fork would be needed to put them in place and we have less than 9 hours till the end of POW. Hopefully the network can still function with regular staking until this is implemented. We'll see soon enough.

No hard fork needed.  POW just needs to end at the timestamp.

And then what? If the code for Prime Controllers is not there yet how does it get put in place without a hard fork?

Eh?  The code for prime controllers is already in place.  Where are you going with this?

The code for prime controllers is NOT already in place.

I'm going to assume you know some programming in c/c++. All there is are some switch statements with an enum for the prime controller case. No actual calls with commented out code etc. I believe these were placed in there with the intention that people would search for it in code. Its an empty shell enough to give the most desperate some scrap of hope it might be there somewhere.

Code:

switch(state)
{
 case(PRIME_CONTROLLER)
 break;
}

doesn't mean squat

[nwfella]

Sure would like to know why the source for this coin is no longer available on github.

[puwaha]

That's pretty strange considering ~11.5m coins haven't been touched in the past 5 days.

GAW doesn't own the customer wallets... they just host them.  If 60% are out of their control, then there isn't a possibility of 51% from the primes colluding.

How do I get my private key from ZenCloud?

Do you get your private key from any other cloud hosted wallet?  Did you get your private key from any exchanges you do business with?  If you don't like that your coins are hosted at ZenCloud, move them to your private wallet.

We are still talking about this: "GAW doesn't own the customer wallets". They do if they own the private keys.

It has to be a true wallet in order to stake, and not just a transaction-type address.  You can stake from your ZenCloud wallet.

But I now get where you are going with this.  You are saying that because you don't have the private key, GAW could close up shop and run off with all your worthless coins, right?

[puwaha]

Yeah, I don't see any built-in security against a 51% attack specifically in the code.  But the attack still requires collusion between a majority of prime controllers, and a bad actor(s) can be ejected from the network.  All it takes is one prime to call a vote for ejection.  So theoretically, GAW (or the collusion group) would have to own 100% of the prime controllers.  After the ejection, Orion controllers can bid to become prime, thereby also securing against collusion.

And what if the bad actor is GAW who controls 100% of the prime controllers?

I'm still puzzled by this whole orion-bidding-prime process. Shouldn't it all be a transparent and cryptographically verifiable process? Otherwise why bother calling it a crypto currency.

In other words, let's say I buy 125k coins on Cryptsy (or maybe my name is Craig). How can I apply to host a Prime controller? This all starts in a few hours, and there doesn't seem to be any concern from anybody (us trolls don't count) that nothing is known about it

Consider this for a minute too suchmoon. Consider that Prime Controllers, orion thingies etc don't and never will exist. Imagine for a second that its possible that Josh will have the bidding open in subtracted for wallets for absolutely nothing. Those coins taken from the clients will be used to fund their stakes back as well as remove the coins from possible sell backs limiting liability.

Josh would likely in this scenario cover himself by releasing a new wallet but "refuse" to push the source for the prime and orion controllers stating its a risk to the customers if the source is available to attack. His victims and investors will eat that shit up because they'll be like yay for josh he's protecting us. It'll be a cover though. Its a win win... don't show the source so nobody can invalidate his claims and he sucks paycoins back without work done (and removes an element of cash backs @ $20 floor).

He'll please everyone by finding some blog setup by a mate to audit his source code and say the prime controller stuff is there.

We keep the circle going... gaw supporters say no proof and we say well show us some that it is there... they say look at the wsj blog.

This is what i think will happen next. There is NO prime controllers.... the source code is just a clone and there WON'T be this added functionality. As long as it "appears" there is a bidding process and peoples zen accounts have some icon or graphic that says you bought a prime controller with successful bid of 1 million paycoin people will be appeased.

Here we go again.... strap yourself in for the next round of victims.

You guys come up with some really elaborate conspiracy theories.  I'm digging it. 

[bubbaj]

It is surprising that people here are still trying to pull this apart but the market is slowly rising, show me another coin that has this type of market trade, buying and selling out side of BTC. Show me a mining service that has produced based on the $6.85 valuation of XPY that has produced these profits if you wanted to take them now per MHS.

No other cloud service has come close and I dare say no other home minor has done better, so suck it up, accept the fact that the coin has support. I believe that BTC will always be the main coin, however if the market cap was showing correct figures you may find that this is No 3 not bad for a shit coin as some call it.

Most posters on this thread wish for the demise of Pay Coin, not because of the coin but they got banned from hash talk, if you really wanted crypto to survive you would be promoting crypto not trying to tear it apart.

How about we start 2015 with one thing and that is a crypto community that works together to bring the technology to the main stream, and not tear it apart from within.

[puwaha]

It's been fun tonight guys... but I really need to hit the sack.  I'll catch up with you tomorrow.

[sandog]

GAW is paying something crazy like 300% interest to people with the primes that stake or buy hashstakers and put paycoin in.. The paycoin you put in is locked for 3 or 6 months but the interest they generate is paid out daily.

Mining crypto - generally does make a decent return PER DAY and if people buy miners that are really just out with a great higher efficiency they have been known to ROI in 3 days. So taken out of that only the people who overwelmingly have more power getting the big block rewards and shares and actually rewarding the stakeholders at a high rate being highly profitable - especially in this environment of everyone unable to accept that any company could possibly be anything but self-serving ripoff merchants. That should yeild a high short term reward that over a year adds up to a huge percentage like 300%.

If anything the people on this forum point out how difficult to fathom GAW is and that they can't believe it can work out different to the usual pump and dump or premine shitcoin. Yet so far the coin has launched, bounced back. Now people in this forum are starting to not even comprehend how the business will run. Those people shouldn't invest - but if people think they can see how it will work out. Well they take a risk and the reward should be high.

Every point made here is just out of context, in isolation or poorly thought through and it shows in the way all the ultra-negative predictions are the epic fail and it makes you all look kind of like we few people are smart, you others are all dumb. We others are just taking bets, investing and hoping that it goes ok. If you did that you would feel kind of like "will you doubters just please shut the hell up and leave us to it", you can't say you wouldn't because you would be invested and either you would cut your losses and run for cover or sit it out and evaluate whatever news comes out.

[T0urist]

Yeah, I don't see any built-in security against a 51% attack specifically in the code.  But the attack still requires collusion between a majority of prime controllers, and a bad actor(s) can be ejected from the network.  All it takes is one prime to call a vote for ejection.  So theoretically, GAW (or the collusion group) would have to own 100% of the prime controllers.  After the ejection, Orion controllers can bid to become prime, thereby also securing against collusion.

And what if the bad actor is GAW who controls 100% of the prime controllers?

I'm still puzzled by this whole orion-bidding-prime process. Shouldn't it all be a transparent and cryptographically verifiable process? Otherwise why bother calling it a crypto currency.

In other words, let's say I buy 125k coins on Cryptsy (or maybe my name is Craig). How can I apply to host a Prime controller? This all starts in a few hours, and there doesn't seem to be any concern from anybody (us trolls don't count) that nothing is known about it

Consider this for a minute too suchmoon. Consider that Prime Controllers, orion thingies etc don't and never will exist. Imagine for a second that its possible that Josh will have the bidding open in subtracted for wallets for absolutely nothing. Those coins taken from the clients will be used to fund their stakes back as well as remove the coins from possible sell backs limiting liability.

Josh would likely in this scenario cover himself by releasing a new wallet but "refuse" to push the source for the prime and orion controllers stating its a risk to the customers if the source is available to attack. His victims and investors will eat that shit up because they'll be like yay for josh he's protecting us. It'll be a cover though. Its a win win... don't show the source so nobody can invalidate his claims and he sucks paycoins back without work done (and removes an element of cash backs @ $20 floor).

He'll please everyone by finding some blog setup by a mate to audit his source code and say the prime controller stuff is there.

We keep the circle going... gaw supporters say no proof and we say well show us some that it is there... they say look at the wsj blog.

This is what i think will happen next. There is NO prime controllers.... the source code is just a clone and there WON'T be this added functionality. As long as it "appears" there is a bidding process and peoples zen accounts have some icon or graphic that says you bought a prime controller with successful bid of 1 million paycoin people will be appeased.

Here we go again.... strap yourself in for the next round of victims.

You guys come up with some really elaborate conspiracy theories.  I'm digging it. 

I said its a theory not that thats whats happening. The source code was pulled puwaha... why? Cmon prime controllers are due to stake very very soon. The code should be polished tested AND complete. Why is it missing from the actual prebuild. If its still being developed i don't give hope much to it being bug free as they are cutting it fine to release it on the world with NO testing. Where is the internal beta test group on the forums etc to show active testing and development. You can't run a global network staking coin with a few internal wallets. It needs stress testing and large scale in the wild tests. Its fishy... its another red flag.

[suchmoon]

Yeah, I don't see any built-in security against a 51% attack specifically in the code.  But the attack still requires collusion between a majority of prime controllers, and a bad actor(s) can be ejected from the network.  All it takes is one prime to call a vote for ejection.  So theoretically, GAW (or the collusion group) would have to own 100% of the prime controllers.  After the ejection, Orion controllers can bid to become prime, thereby also securing against collusion.

And what if the bad actor is GAW who controls 100% of the prime controllers?

I'm still puzzled by this whole orion-bidding-prime process. Shouldn't it all be a transparent and cryptographically verifiable process? Otherwise why bother calling it a crypto currency.

In other words, let's say I buy 125k coins on Cryptsy (or maybe my name is Craig). How can I apply to host a Prime controller? This all starts in a few hours, and there doesn't seem to be any concern from anybody (us trolls don't count) that nothing is known about it

Consider this for a minute too suchmoon. Consider that Prime Controllers, orion thingies etc don't and never will exist. Imagine for a second that its possible that Josh will have the bidding open in subtracted for wallets for absolutely nothing. Those coins taken from the clients will be used to fund their stakes back as well as remove the coins from possible sell backs limiting liability.

Josh would likely in this scenario cover himself by releasing a new wallet but "refuse" to push the source for the prime and orion controllers stating its a risk to the customers if the source is available to attack. His victims and investors will eat that shit up because they'll be like yay for josh he's protecting us. It'll be a cover though. Its a win win... don't show the source so nobody can invalidate his claims and he sucks paycoins back without work done (and removes an element of cash backs @ $20 floor).

He'll please everyone by finding some blog setup by a mate to audit his source code and say the prime controller stuff is there.

We keep the circle going... gaw supporters say no proof and we say well show us some that it is there... they say look at the wsj blog.

This is what i think will happen next. There is NO prime controllers.... the source code is just a clone and there WON'T be this added functionality. As long as it "appears" there is a bidding process and peoples zen accounts have some icon or graphic that says you bought a prime controller with successful bid of 1 million paycoin people will be appeased.

Here we go again.... strap yourself in for the next round of victims.

I'm getting that feeling, yes. Trouble is, the wallet needs to be able to communicate with the Prime Controller. So even if controller source and/or other details are not released it should be evident if there is any Prime functionality in the network or not. And they can't hide the wallet code because exchanges etc need to be able to build their clients from source. I'm hoping that the missing github repo indicates they are working on it, just not sure how and when it's going to be forked.

[T0urist]

It is surprising that people here are still trying to pull this apart but the market is slowly rising, show me another coin that has this type of market trade, buying and selling out side of BTC. Show me a mining service that has produced based on the $6.85 valuation of XPY that has produced these profits if you wanted to take them now per MHS.

No other cloud service has come close and I dare say no other home minor has done better, so suck it up, accept the fact that the coin has support. I believe that BTC will always be the main coin, however if the market cap was showing correct figures you may find that this is No 3 not bad for a shit coin as some call it.

Most posters on this thread wish for the demise of Pay Coin, not because of the coin but they got banned from hash talk, if you really wanted crypto to survive you would be promoting crypto not trying to tear it apart.

How about we start 2015 with one thing and that is a crypto community that works together to bring the technology to the main stream, and not tear it apart from within.

As stated before i can make a clone coin set it at 1 billion coins and buy one of my coins for $100. My market success is now $100 billion dollars. Most posters here don't wish the demise of paycoin they wish to expose a scam that will hurt many.

That makes no sense... if we want crypto to survive we should promote any coin scam or not? Promoting a possible scam does more damage to the ideology of cryptocurrency than stopping it. How about we start 2015 with transparency on GAW's behalf to "promote" the faith and furthering of crypto. GAW can make it all go away so easily with just some real proof. Here's 2 possible starters.

1. Release the source of paycoin in its entirety... show the prime controllers exist in code and function as said. Show the hybrid flex.... show the thermonuclear transaction code. You can't sell a product with these features then say they will come later. Proof of concept my friend. It'd be like selling someone a placebo for cancer telling them the actual active ingredients are coming later but buy it now.

2. Demonstrate your petahash power of past mining. Show it to us. It hasn't been sold off yet SO SHOW IT. Mining is no longer happening at that power so there is no risk to customers or GAW anymore right? If you are moving to staking there is no more equipment to protect... show it powered off but in its entirety in a warehouse. Josh could say its sold and gone... how convenient. I predicted he'd remove the mining from the equation with staking to cover himself.

Anyone wishing to promote and encourage crypto would do this.