This frozen chicken “had a rich, emotional life.”

[Hippie Tech]

Say NO to horse meat !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVDwPbGfr2U

And to blood thirsty, savage, warpig god(s).

[1714906184]

1714906184

[1714906184]

1714906184

[hashman]

Haha these militant veggies are pretty funny. It's natural and healthy for us to eat meat, the canine teeth in my mouth prove it.

I hope your sex change operation goes well, after all you do have nipples. 

[Rishblitz]

I heard that. You are mistaken. The God of the Bible is the reality. Belief that God is a fable, and that the Bible is a fairytale book is the religion.

...
but just then you called it out as a fable

No I didn't. You simply misunderstand the English I am using.

sorry it just seemed worded weird to me.

[SebastianJu]

God, the Creator and Maker of everything, gave and gives people the authority for everything, including life of the plants and animals on the earth. God allowed and allows mankind to freely eat the plants and animals.

God never forces a person to eat animals. He doesn't really force people to eat plants either. The only thing He tells us is to treat other people with enough respect that they respect the freedom and property of other people.

Many people disregard the things that God tells them. This does not make them right. It only adds to the liability that they will have when God judges them in the coming judgment of all things.

Children are simply people who are not fully developed in certain ways. Children have souls. Animals do not.

So its a religious root where youre arbitrary commitment, about how things have to be, is coming from. Ok. Its not as if religions hasnt shown their wrong sides. Lately the most vocal are the islamic extremists. Personally i think you can believe what you want as long as you dont harm others with it. I dont await you to be cruel to an animal as a good christian, so im fine with that.

Its pretty clear nowadays that the bible was only written by humans, implementing older religious stories and even deciding what books are belonging to the nowadays bible was done by humans only. So its pretty arbitrary to want to believe in this as the unaltered word of god. Especially because if you would have been born in a muslim family you would be convinced the same way that only allah is the real god.

Anyway. Im libertarian as long as you dont hurt others with your believe.

[BADecker]

God, the Creator and Maker of everything, gave and gives people the authority for everything, including life of the plants and animals on the earth. God allowed and allows mankind to freely eat the plants and animals.

God never forces a person to eat animals. He doesn't really force people to eat plants either. The only thing He tells us is to treat other people with enough respect that they respect the freedom and property of other people.

Many people disregard the things that God tells them. This does not make them right. It only adds to the liability that they will have when God judges them in the coming judgment of all things.

Children are simply people who are not fully developed in certain ways. Children have souls. Animals do not.

So its a religious root where youre arbitrary commitment, about how things have to be, is coming from. Ok. Its not as if religions hasnt shown their wrong sides. Lately the most vocal are the islamic extremists. Personally i think you can believe what you want as long as you dont harm others with it. I dont await you to be cruel to an animal as a good christian, so im fine with that.

Its pretty clear nowadays that the bible was only written by humans, implementing older religious stories and even deciding what books are belonging to the nowadays bible was done by humans only. So its pretty arbitrary to want to believe in this as the unaltered word of god. Especially because if you would have been born in a muslim family you would be convinced the same way that only allah is the real god.

Anyway. Im libertarian as long as you dont hurt others with your believe.

In the evolution religion, survival of the fittest reigns as god. Therefore, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, as long as his thinking isn't overcome by someone stronger than he. By this kind of thinking, this thread is informative. But it isn't the thing that rules the world. In fact, it is way lower than money in strength, except when it combines itself with money.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...



EDIT: Look, if evolution is the truth, and money exists, then money is part of evolution. Perhaps at some other time in the future, chicken-life will reign as the strongest of the fittest... if evolution exists, that is.

[Rishblitz]

We should be able to farm what we want and ranch what we want and eat what we want.

[SebastianJu]

In the evolution religion, survival of the fittest reigns as god. Therefore, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, as long as his thinking isn't overcome by someone stronger than he. By this kind of thinking, this thread is informative. But it isn't the thing that rules the world. In fact, it is way lower than money in strength, except when it combines itself with money.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...



EDIT: Look, if evolution is the truth, and money exists, then money is part of evolution. Perhaps at some other time in the future, chicken-life will reign as the strongest of the fittest... if evolution exists, that is.

Since when is evolution a religion? Its something you can watch in real life. Or what do you think are multi resistant bacteria? They changed their dna to adapt to a hard environment.

Even when its survival of the fittest, thats a law of matter. Though life is able to be more than simple atoms moving. Humans can be emphatic with the feelings of others. Leading to not wanting to hurt other, dont want to make war and so on. So we dont act only on material things. And its the same, on a much smaller scale, with animals. You should check out the emotional connections animals can build with their own kind, see elefants, or with humans. As pets. Life is not only survival of the fittest so its not correct to reduce it on that.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

Haha these militant veggies are pretty funny. It's natural and healthy for us to eat meat, the canine teeth in my mouth prove it.

It's funny all these mad veggies coming up with twisted logic like "rape is also natural".

[BADecker]

In the evolution religion, survival of the fittest reigns as god. Therefore, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, as long as his thinking isn't overcome by someone stronger than he. By this kind of thinking, this thread is informative. But it isn't the thing that rules the world. In fact, it is way lower than money in strength, except when it combines itself with money.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...



EDIT: Look, if evolution is the truth, and money exists, then money is part of evolution. Perhaps at some other time in the future, chicken-life will reign as the strongest of the fittest... if evolution exists, that is.

Since when is evolution a religion? Its something you can watch in real life. Or what do you think are multi resistant bacteria? They changed their dna to adapt to a hard environment.

Even when its survival of the fittest, thats a law of matter. Though life is able to be more than simple atoms moving. Humans can be emphatic with the feelings of others. Leading to not wanting to hurt other, dont want to make war and so on. So we dont act only on material things. And its the same, on a much smaller scale, with animals. You should check out the emotional connections animals can build with their own kind, see elefants, or with humans. As pets. Life is not only survival of the fittest so its not correct to reduce it on that.

All so called evolutionary changes can be attributed to built in programming more easily than they can be attributed to evolution. At its core and base, evolution says that life came about by random, accidental change of some inanimate material into life. Nobody knows that this is what happened. Scientists haven't shown that this is what happened. They will not attest to knowing that this is what happened. That's why evolution is a theory. Nobody knows.

Even though this is true - you can find that this is true by looking at the basic scientific papers by those who have done the work - multitudes of people have decided that they want evolution to be true without proof, and without even the best evidence. They have their priests in the propagandists who lead the ignorant into believing in something that is not true and that has no foundation.

Believe the evolution BS if you want, but if you are true to self, check the basics of it. It is all built on "if" and "maybe" at its base and core. Evolution is a religion.

[SebastianJu]

All so called evolutionary changes can be attributed to built in programming more easily than they can be attributed to evolution. At its core and base, evolution says that life came about by random, accidental change of some inanimate material into life. Nobody knows that this is what happened. Scientists haven't shown that this is what happened. They will not attest to knowing that this is what happened. That's why evolution is a theory. Nobody knows.

Even though this is true - you can find that this is true by looking at the basic scientific papers by those who have done the work - multitudes of people have decided that they want evolution to be true without proof, and without even the best evidence. They have their priests in the propagandists who lead the ignorant into believing in something that is not true and that has no foundation.

Believe the evolution BS if you want, but if you are true to self, check the basics of it. It is all built on "if" and "maybe" at its base and core. Evolution is a religion.

Its a theory, right. And personally i have a hard time too to believe that it happened randomly. The thing is only that the things that happened can be shown. But no one can show the hand of god creating a creature or its yet to be shown that the world is built in a different way since the sole matter view scientists have.

So when you say there is no proof... im not so sure. Its pretty stable to declare the changes in lifeforms. Though there is no proof that gods hand came into play and made everything in an instant. So whats more certain? Some observations about the development of lifeforms who can be connected by certain changes over a huge timeframe or a story from a book that was written 2000 years ago only? I mean whats the difference in me declaring the all mighty flying spaghetti monster created all humans and all life? Its no different than the claim an all mighty presence has nothing better to do then create humans. Im always surprised how little religious people question what they believe. I know its very hard to get to a viewpoint that is not contaminated by believes... but still... Even when they know that its made up, they want to believe. Its fine for me but i think there are better ways to become a better person than thousand year old rules from very different times.

[BADecker]

All so called evolutionary changes can be attributed to built in programming more easily than they can be attributed to evolution. At its core and base, evolution says that life came about by random, accidental change of some inanimate material into life. Nobody knows that this is what happened. Scientists haven't shown that this is what happened. They will not attest to knowing that this is what happened. That's why evolution is a theory. Nobody knows.

Even though this is true - you can find that this is true by looking at the basic scientific papers by those who have done the work - multitudes of people have decided that they want evolution to be true without proof, and without even the best evidence. They have their priests in the propagandists who lead the ignorant into believing in something that is not true and that has no foundation.

Believe the evolution BS if you want, but if you are true to self, check the basics of it. It is all built on "if" and "maybe" at its base and core. Evolution is a religion.

Its a theory, right. And personally i have a hard time too to believe that it happened randomly. The thing is only that the things that happened can be shown. But no one can show the hand of god creating a creature or its yet to be shown that the world is built in a different way since the sole matter view scientists have.

So when you say there is no proof... im not so sure. Its pretty stable to declare the changes in lifeforms. Though there is no proof that gods hand came into play and made everything in an instant. So whats more certain? Some observations about the development of lifeforms who can be connected by certain changes over a huge timeframe or a story from a book that was written 2000 years ago only? I mean whats the difference in me declaring the all mighty flying spaghetti monster created all humans and all life? Its no different than the claim an all mighty presence has nothing better to do then create humans. Im always surprised how little religious people question what they believe. I know its very hard to get to a viewpoint that is not contaminated by believes... but still... Even when they know that its made up, they want to believe. Its fine for me but i think there are better ways to become a better person than thousand year old rules from very different times.

There are two major things to look at when considering God or a god. These are: 1) the fundamental idea of God; 2) the interpretations of religions regarding God or god.

Fundamentally there is this. In our own modern world, the monkeys and apes, the dolphins, the birds (even the birds that talk), don't make any complex machinery. Only man makes complex machinery, even though some of the animals use simple, what we would call primitive tools - some primates crack open nuts with rocks, etc. In the eyes of animals (if they could think a little like us) man would be the god.

The thing that is interesting is that all - 100% - of the technology of man, no matter how advanced man's complex machinery is, comes from man's observation of what already exists in nature. In fact, some areas of nature are way more "advanced" than man has been able to understand. To see this, all one need do is watch the Youtube videos that depict the operations of living cells.

Cellular life is machinery in action that man has yet to completely unravel the mysteries about. Yet, this machinery is in abundance all over the world reproducing itself, while man has yet to master the art of building machinery that can reproduce (Yes, a few robots have been built that can more or less reproduce, but nothing approaching the complexity of nature by a long shot).

The point? Since all man's technological abilities come from nature, and since man has really only just started to catch up to nature, and since it is shown when comparing animals to man that the more the advanced form of life, the more complex the technology... consider the capabilities of the One Who put the technology into nature... the same nature that man gets all his technology from. Even if it happened to be only nature itself, then nature is God.

Since there is mass entropy in nature at the same time there is highly advanced complexity, God probably exists, at least in part, outside of nature.

In addition to the above, there is virtually no evidence that pure random exists. Everything operates by cause and effect, action and reaction. Only in some higher forms of quantum math is there any evidence whatsoever for the idea that there can be something such as pure random. The better the scientist, the more he(she) is able to find the cause behind some effect. What does this mean? It means that even our thinking and machine-making has been programmed into the way the universe is unfolding. And it also means that in some way, God has given us the ability to reach out to Him.

Think about these things in depth. A simple reading of this post will not suffice in doing justice to what is written here in simple words.

The next question is, Has God given us a method to find Him, to read about Him, to contact Him (perhaps simple prayer)? Has He shown us one of the religions that stands head and shoulders above other religions, and even above what a religion could possibly be, so that we can understand that this religion definitely came from God, and is God talking to us? Check the religions out. Compare the histories of the different religions. Because the history of the Judeo-Christian religion is one (the Bible and the whole history of how it came into being) that stands out way above what could exist naturally without the guidance of God.

[Wilikon]

All so called evolutionary changes can be attributed to built in programming more easily than they can be attributed to evolution. At its core and base, evolution says that life came about by random, accidental change of some inanimate material into life. Nobody knows that this is what happened. Scientists haven't shown that this is what happened. They will not attest to knowing that this is what happened. That's why evolution is a theory. Nobody knows.

Even though this is true - you can find that this is true by looking at the basic scientific papers by those who have done the work - multitudes of people have decided that they want evolution to be true without proof, and without even the best evidence. They have their priests in the propagandists who lead the ignorant into believing in something that is not true and that has no foundation.

Believe the evolution BS if you want, but if you are true to self, check the basics of it. It is all built on "if" and "maybe" at its base and core. Evolution is a religion.

Its a theory, right. And personally i have a hard time too to believe that it happened randomly. The thing is only that the things that happened can be shown. But no one can show the hand of god creating a creature or its yet to be shown that the world is built in a different way since the sole matter view scientists have.

So when you say there is no proof... im not so sure. Its pretty stable to declare the changes in lifeforms. Though there is no proof that gods hand came into play and made everything in an instant. So whats more certain? Some observations about the development of lifeforms who can be connected by certain changes over a huge timeframe or a story from a book that was written 2000 years ago only? I mean whats the difference in me declaring the all mighty flying spaghetti monster created all humans and all life? Its no different than the claim an all mighty presence has nothing better to do then create humans. Im always surprised how little religious people question what they believe. I know its very hard to get to a viewpoint that is not contaminated by believes... but still... Even when they know that its made up, they want to believe. Its fine for me but i think there are better ways to become a better person than thousand year old rules from very different times.

There are two major things to look at when considering God or a god. These are: 1) the fundamental idea of God; 2) the interpretations of religions regarding God or god.

Fundamentally there is this. In our own modern world, the monkeys and apes, the dolphins, the birds (even the birds that talk), don't make any complex machinery. Only man makes complex machinery, even though some of the animals use simple, what we would call primitive tools - some primates crack open nuts with rocks, etc. In the eyes of animals (if they could think a little like us) man would be the god.

The thing that is interesting is that all - 100% - of the technology of man, no matter how advanced man's complex machinery is, comes from man's observation of what already exists in nature. In fact, some areas of nature are way more "advanced" than man has been able to understand. To see this, all one need do is watch the Youtube videos that depict the operations of living cells.

Cellular life is machinery in action that man has yet to completely unravel the mysteries about. Yet, this machinery is in abundance all over the world reproducing itself, while man has yet to master the art of building machinery that can reproduce (Yes, a few robots have been built that can more or less reproduce, but nothing approaching the complexity of nature by a long shot).

The point? Since all man's technological abilities come from nature, and since man has really only just started to catch up to nature, and since it is shown when comparing animals to man that the more the advanced form of life, the more complex the technology... consider the capabilities of the One Who put the technology into nature... the same nature that man gets all his technology from. Even if it happened to be only nature itself, then nature is God.

Since there is mass entropy in nature at the same time there is highly advanced complexity, God probably exists, at least in part, outside of nature.

In addition to the above, there is virtually no evidence that pure random exists. Everything operates by cause and effect, action and reaction. Only in some higher forms of quantum math is there any evidence whatsoever for the idea that there can be something such as pure random. The better the scientist, the more he(she) is able to find the cause behind some effect. What does this mean? It means that even our thinking and machine-making has been programmed into the way the universe is unfolding. And it also means that in some way, God has given us the ability to reach out to Him.

Think about these things in depth. A simple reading of this post will not suffice in doing justice to what is written here in simple words.

The next question is, Has God given us a method to find Him, to read about Him, to contact Him (perhaps simple prayer)? Has He shown us one of the religions that stands head and shoulders above other religions, and even above what a religion could possibly be, so that we can understand that this religion definitely came from God, and is God talking to us? Check the religions out. Compare the histories of the different religions. Because the history of the Judeo-Christian religion is one (the Bible and the whole history of how it came into being) that stands out way above what could exist naturally without the guidance of God.

[wili_bot on]

Based on your viewing habits, the WilikonBot suggests your welcoming participation in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934756.0

[wili_bot off]

[SebastianJu]

There are two major things to look at when considering God or a god. These are: 1) the fundamental idea of God; 2) the interpretations of religions regarding God or god.

Fundamentally there is this. In our own modern world, the monkeys and apes, the dolphins, the birds (even the birds that talk), don't make any complex machinery. Only man makes complex machinery, even though some of the animals use simple, what we would call primitive tools - some primates crack open nuts with rocks, etc. In the eyes of animals (if they could think a little like us) man would be the god.

The thing that is interesting is that all - 100% - of the technology of man, no matter how advanced man's complex machinery is, comes from man's observation of what already exists in nature. In fact, some areas of nature are way more "advanced" than man has been able to understand. To see this, all one need do is watch the Youtube videos that depict the operations of living cells.

Cellular life is machinery in action that man has yet to completely unravel the mysteries about. Yet, this machinery is in abundance all over the world reproducing itself, while man has yet to master the art of building machinery that can reproduce (Yes, a few robots have been built that can more or less reproduce, but nothing approaching the complexity of nature by a long shot).

The point? Since all man's technological abilities come from nature, and since man has really only just started to catch up to nature, and since it is shown when comparing animals to man that the more the advanced form of life, the more complex the technology... consider the capabilities of the One Who put the technology into nature... the same nature that man gets all his technology from. Even if it happened to be only nature itself, then nature is God.

Since there is mass entropy in nature at the same time there is highly advanced complexity, God probably exists, at least in part, outside of nature.

In addition to the above, there is virtually no evidence that pure random exists. Everything operates by cause and effect, action and reaction. Only in some higher forms of quantum math is there any evidence whatsoever for the idea that there can be something such as pure random. The better the scientist, the more he(she) is able to find the cause behind some effect. What does this mean? It means that even our thinking and machine-making has been programmed into the way the universe is unfolding. And it also means that in some way, God has given us the ability to reach out to Him.

Think about these things in depth. A simple reading of this post will not suffice in doing justice to what is written here in simple words.

The next question is, Has God given us a method to find Him, to read about Him, to contact Him (perhaps simple prayer)? Has He shown us one of the religions that stands head and shoulders above other religions, and even above what a religion could possibly be, so that we can understand that this religion definitely came from God, and is God talking to us? Check the religions out. Compare the histories of the different religions. Because the history of the Judeo-Christian religion is one (the Bible and the whole history of how it came into being) that stands out way above what could exist naturally without the guidance of God.

So only because human can build machines you make a arbitrary border to say that animals are machines. I think thats completely arbitrary. What about the very first humans. They did not build machines. They only had the potential to do it. Even now most humans only can build simple machines. So what are those humans? Do they have less soul in your imagination? Its all about potential. And i think its arbitrary when you decide that animals dont have such potential. Its understandable when not believing things can develop to become better of course. But its still arbitray to make a border there.

In fact there are cases of animals that learn new behaviours. Simple use of machines they didnt know before. And animals of the same kind can learn from those individuals. So whats the difference to a human inventing the wheel? Others do the same and some day they think its better when the wheel isnt made from wood only, steel has to be around it to make it more stable. And so on. Its not that a nowadays human invented the car he build. He only is using what others invented before him and he might add something to it.

So yes, humans are special in their ability. But to say that animals only are robots because they arent as good is going to far.

Where did humans see wheels in nature so that they could copy? Not everything was shown by nature so you can only simply copy it.

Its not that i dont believe in higher existence. There are for sure. At least its hard to imagine that humans are the most developed species at all. I believe one could take all of life together and say its god. But its fascinating how humans go around and claim to know what "god" wants. They collect stories in a book and then they claim they know better than all and we have to do now what they say. Like IS in iraq in its most loud expression. Though at the end no one can proof that he knows the will of everything in existence. So those claims has to be taken with caution.

Im not sure why nature is proof that god build it. Is it smart to say "i dont understand how it happened... there has to be some allmighty person who made it" or is it smarter to say "we dont know yet how it came to this"? You know people in the past believed that lightning bolts come from god. They simply took the simple explaination for their missing knowledge. So no, only because nature if full of wonders doesnt say there was a person who made all this personally. Because if there is you would need to ask yourself who made god then. Or is that the point where you would claim that god came into existence from itself? Then why happened this with god but not with nature? Its simply arbitrary. The easy explainations of humans that miss knowledge.

You write under the assumption that there is a god. What if there is none? If you speak about the will of whole life in existence then its no question that god exists in some kind. But if not then all those people praying are nothing more than lunatics who speak with their invisible friend. Who doesnt even answer. Or at least they interprete or claim that he answers sometimes. Or interprete things. If it would be possible to measure and repeat such contact with god then it would be proven. But till then its only a believe that dont yield results. At least not beside people trying to become better persons to be liked by their vision of god. Thats a good effect, at least as long as you dont belong to some radical group like dschihadists or so.

[BADecker]

There are two major things to look at when considering God or a god. These are: 1) the fundamental idea of God; 2) the interpretations of religions regarding God or god.

Fundamentally there is this. In our own modern world, the monkeys and apes, the dolphins, the birds (even the birds that talk), don't make any complex machinery. Only man makes complex machinery, even though some of the animals use simple, what we would call primitive tools - some primates crack open nuts with rocks, etc. In the eyes of animals (if they could think a little like us) man would be the god.

The thing that is interesting is that all - 100% - of the technology of man, no matter how advanced man's complex machinery is, comes from man's observation of what already exists in nature. In fact, some areas of nature are way more "advanced" than man has been able to understand. To see this, all one need do is watch the Youtube videos that depict the operations of living cells.

Cellular life is machinery in action that man has yet to completely unravel the mysteries about. Yet, this machinery is in abundance all over the world reproducing itself, while man has yet to master the art of building machinery that can reproduce (Yes, a few robots have been built that can more or less reproduce, but nothing approaching the complexity of nature by a long shot).

The point? Since all man's technological abilities come from nature, and since man has really only just started to catch up to nature, and since it is shown when comparing animals to man that the more the advanced form of life, the more complex the technology... consider the capabilities of the One Who put the technology into nature... the same nature that man gets all his technology from. Even if it happened to be only nature itself, then nature is God.

Since there is mass entropy in nature at the same time there is highly advanced complexity, God probably exists, at least in part, outside of nature.

In addition to the above, there is virtually no evidence that pure random exists. Everything operates by cause and effect, action and reaction. Only in some higher forms of quantum math is there any evidence whatsoever for the idea that there can be something such as pure random. The better the scientist, the more he(she) is able to find the cause behind some effect. What does this mean? It means that even our thinking and machine-making has been programmed into the way the universe is unfolding. And it also means that in some way, God has given us the ability to reach out to Him.

Think about these things in depth. A simple reading of this post will not suffice in doing justice to what is written here in simple words.

The next question is, Has God given us a method to find Him, to read about Him, to contact Him (perhaps simple prayer)? Has He shown us one of the religions that stands head and shoulders above other religions, and even above what a religion could possibly be, so that we can understand that this religion definitely came from God, and is God talking to us? Check the religions out. Compare the histories of the different religions. Because the history of the Judeo-Christian religion is one (the Bible and the whole history of how it came into being) that stands out way above what could exist naturally without the guidance of God.

So only because human can build machines you make a arbitrary border to say that animals are machines. I think thats completely arbitrary. [True. Animals are machine, and humans are cyborgs with souls that can reach God. People are AI. God is the only real intelligence.] What about the very first humans. They did not build machines. They only had the potential to do it. [You weren't there. Why wouldn't they build machines? See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=925633.msg10259731#msg10259731, a part of which is quoted here

A BIG part of the point is that, even though the ancient trading civilization that ruled the world in our prehistoric past may not have been called "Atlantis" around the world, it was INDEED there. Why don't modern scientists want to acknowledge this? Why do the universities constantly attempt to hide the info? Are they afraid that their whole system of ancient history which is a big joke will prove that they are stupid? Will this credibility loss cost them their place in the world of money?

] Even now most humans only can build simple machines. So what are those humans? Do they have less soul in your imagination? [Humans are cyborgs. The thing that distinguishes them from the animals is that the DO have souls.] Its all about potential. And i think its arbitrary when you decide that animals dont have such potential. [Perhaps. But it is way more arbitrary to think that they have such potential. Why? All you need do is consider how they have used whatever potential that they may have over the millennia.] Its understandable when not believing things can develop to become better of course. But its still arbitray to make a border there. [The major thing that is against what you say here, is the fact of entropy which is virtually universal. At the same time, there is NOTHING that can be conclusively proven or even shown that animals can become better as you call it.]

In fact there are cases of animals that learn new behaviours. Simple use of machines they didnt know before. And animals of the same kind can learn from those individuals. So whats the difference to a human inventing the wheel? [The difference is that animals that learn rather complicated things, only do so in the presence of humans teaching them. Then they forget. But if a few remember and pass it on, their machines and learnings are not compound. They are simple. Any compund machine learning that animals have dies with them. Animals are not made to have such, just as they are not made to have souls.] Others do the same and some day they think its better when the wheel isnt made from wood only, steel has to be around it to make it more stable. And so on. Its not that a nowadays human invented the car he build. He only is using what others invented before him and he might add something to it. [That's half right. Take all man's knowledge away, and it would be a long time before he regained it. Yet you will never be able to teach an animal to drive the way a human does. Animals aren't made to understand that kind of thing.]

So yes, humans are special in their ability. But to say that animals only are robots because they arent as good is going to far. [Good doesn't have anything to do with it. Animals were designed to be robots, just as humans were designed to be cyborgs with souls. God designed and built.]

Where did humans see wheels in nature so that they could copy? Not everything was shown by nature so you can only simply copy it. [You really need to get away to the mountains more often. There are signs all over mountain roads that say "Watch out for falling rocks!" Rocks roll, both before they fall, and after. What? Do you think that the first wheel that people made was like the latest shiny car wheel?]

Its not that i dont believe in higher existence. There are for sure. At least its hard to imagine that humans are the most developed species at all. [All right! I almost thought you had gone to be like one of the animals there for a little.] I believe one could take all of life together and say its god. [Nice belief. God didn't and wouldn't say that.] But its fascinating how humans go around and claim to know what "god" wants. They collect stories in a book and then they claim they know better than all and we have to do now what they say. Like IS in iraq in its most loud expression. Though at the end no one can proof that he knows the will of everything in existence. So those claims has to be taken with caution. [As far as religious books go, all the religious books of the world except one are man's writings. The Bible is an extension of God through human beings. When you study everything about the Bible, including its structure, the history of how it came into being, the single theme that flows throughout, the traditions of the nation of Israel regarding it, etc., you will find that it is an impossible to have been written book. Yet here it is, in abundance, all around the world, translated into multitudes of languages.]

Im not sure why nature is proof that god build it. Is it smart to say "i dont understand how it happened... there has to be some allmighty person who made it" or is it smarter to say "we dont know yet how it came to this"? [Did you even read what I wrote above? In brief, the greater the machine, the greater the machine maker. The fact that the universe is full of all the machinery that we get ours from, and even machinery that is way beyond our understanding at present, shows that the Machine Maker of the universe is extremely great. In fact, His greatness fits the definition of the word God. That's why we call Him God.] You know people in the past believed that lightning bolts come from god. They simply took the simple explaination for their missing knowledge. So no, only because nature if full of wonders doesnt say there was a person who made all this personally. [The stuff of nature is extremely complex. Nobody can will himself to grow another arm. If you lose an arm, there is no way you can get it back. Yet, science is finding out that an arm is loaded with technology. Scientists are starting to duplicate some of the complex technology that exists in an arm. It is technology. Technology has a technology inventor and maker. It just doesn't pop into being, over a long period of time or short.] Because if there is you would need to ask yourself who made god then. Or is that the point where you would claim that god came into existence from itself? Then why happened this with god but not with nature? Its simply arbitrary. The easy explainations of humans that miss knowledge. [God is so extremely great that we can't ask the right question about Him like that. In our simple, little minds, the answer to the question of where God came from would make no sense. In fact, God is so GREAT that hearing the answer might even kill us. Suffice it to say that God is eternal, no beginning or end.]

You write under the assumption that there is a god. What if there is none? [The evidence of the complex, machine-like quality of the universe and nature suggests that God exists. There is no other way. Entropy and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics dispells the belief that such complexity could come into being of itself over tremendously long periods of time.] If you speak about the will of whole life in existence then its no question that god exists in some kind. But if not then all those people praying are nothing more than lunatics who speak with their invisible friend. Who doesnt even answer. Or at least they interprete or claim that he answers sometimes. Or interprete things. If it would be possible to measure and repeat such contact with god then it would be proven. But till then its only a believe that dont yield results. At least not beside people trying to become better persons to be liked by their vision of god. Thats a good effect, at least as long as you dont belong to some radical group like dschihadists or so. [Now you are touching on seeing the great good God has given us. He has given us such strength of will that we can either believe in Him and be friends with Him, or we can ignore Him to the point of denying ourselves right out of existence. I truly hope your studies and the calling of the Holy Spirit reach you before you get to the point of self-destruction.]

[Rishblitz]

All so called evolutionary changes can be attributed to built in programming more easily than they can be attributed to evolution. At its core and base, evolution says that life came about by random, accidental change of some inanimate material into life. Nobody knows that this is what happened. Scientists haven't shown that this is what happened. They will not attest to knowing that this is what happened. That's why evolution is a theory. Nobody knows.

Even though this is true - you can find that this is true by looking at the basic scientific papers by those who have done the work - multitudes of people have decided that they want evolution to be true without proof, and without even the best evidence. They have their priests in the propagandists who lead the ignorant into believing in something that is not true and that has no foundation.

Believe the evolution BS if you want, but if you are true to self, check the basics of it. It is all built on "if" and "maybe" at its base and core. Evolution is a religion.

Its a theory, right. And personally i have a hard time too to believe that it happened randomly. The thing is only that the things that happened can be shown. But no one can show the hand of god creating a creature or its yet to be shown that the world is built in a different way since the sole matter view scientists have.

So when you say there is no proof... im not so sure. Its pretty stable to declare the changes in lifeforms. Though there is no proof that gods hand came into play and made everything in an instant. So whats more certain? Some observations about the development of lifeforms who can be connected by certain changes over a huge timeframe or a story from a book that was written 2000 years ago only? I mean whats the difference in me declaring the all mighty flying spaghetti monster created all humans and all life? Its no different than the claim an all mighty presence has nothing better to do then create humans. Im always surprised how little religious people question what they believe. I know its very hard to get to a viewpoint that is not contaminated by believes... but still... Even when they know that its made up, they want to believe. Its fine for me but i think there are better ways to become a better person than thousand year old rules from very different times.

pretty much anything you can think about could be classified as a theory.

[hashman]

Haha these militant veggies are pretty funny. It's natural and healthy for us to eat meat, the canine teeth in my mouth prove it.

It's funny all these mad veggies coming up with twisted logic like "rape is also natural".

It's funny all these militant corpsemunchers coming up with twisted logic like "these teeth are kinda pointy compared to the others therefore cancer is healthy". 

[Elwar]

I think the most important thing we all need to think about here is that chicken just tastes good. If prepared well, it is just downright tasty.

If not for the fact that meat tastes really good and I do not like most vegetables, I would also be a vegetarian. But this fact remains, so it is so.

[hashman]

I think the most important thing we all need to think about here is that chicken just tastes good *to me*. If prepared well, it is just downright tasty *to me*.

If not for the fact that meat tastes really good *to me* and I do not like most vegetables, I would also be a vegetarian. But this fact remains, so it is so.

FTFY.  Bon appetit!

[Elwar]

I think the most important thing we all need to think about here is that chicken just tastes good *to me*. If prepared well, it is just downright tasty *to me*.

If not for the fact that meat tastes really good *to me* and I do not like most vegetables, I would also be a vegetarian. But this fact remains, so it is so.

FTFY.  Bon appetit!

 

all true

[Wilikon]

Haha these militant veggies are pretty funny. It's natural and healthy for us to eat meat, the canine teeth in my mouth prove it.

It's funny all these mad veggies coming up with twisted logic like "rape is also natural".

It's funny all these militant corpsemunchers coming up with twisted logic like "these teeth are kinda pointy compared to the others therefore cancer is healthy". 

When did the vegetarian movement started?


Before recorded history

Vegetarianism dates back to a time before recorded history. Many anthropologists believe that most early humans ate primarily plant foods, being more gatherers than hunters. (See articles by David Popovich and Derek Wall.) This view is supported by the fact that the human digestive system resembles that of other plant-eaters rather than that of carnivores. (Forget about "canine" teeth -- other herbivores have them too. But no meat-eater has molar teeth, like humans and the other plant-eaters.) The early human as plant-eater view is also supported by the fact that humans on meat-based diets contract major ailments such as heart disease and cancer much more frequently than people eating vegetarian diets. [more on the topic of plant-eating being natural]

Certainly humans started eating meat at some point before recorded history, but only because unlike animals, humans are capable of that kind of experimentation. However, this short period of meat-eating is not nearly long enough to have had an evolutionary impact on us -- hence the fact, for example, that animal foods will raise human cholesterol while dogs fed solid bricks of butter maintain the same cholesterol level.

Early vegetarians

The Greek mathematician Pythagoras was a vegetarian, and vegetarians were often called Pythagoreans until the word was created. (The term "vegetarian" was coined by the British Vegetarian Society in the mid-1800's. The Latin root of the word refers to the source of life.) Leonardo da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin, Albert Einstein, and George Bernard Shaw were also vegetarians. (A modern legend is that Hitler was a vegetarian, but in fact he was not, at least not in the traditional sense of the word.)

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/history.html


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Now I understand why I never liked that guy