▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

[Puppet]

already added

[jaybow]

already added

Thanks! Hope this thread will stop some people throwing money at these scams...

[TheIZS]

So Puppet I have to ask how you can keep GAW in the "legit" category while listing Bitcoincloudservices as a definite Ponzi?
BCS doesn't even try to hold any BTC they pay directly into any wallet I specify.
I like the idea, BUT your promotion of one site that at the moment is sooooooooo clearly shady as shady gets, I really can't seriously consider the information your presenting as even starting to be valid. How about Hashie? Is it for real or not? 

More currency on your list before I can take this seriously.

Great idea but poor execution. 

[raskul]

GAW are mining, whether you like it or not.

[l3sny]

Questions about hashie are (hopefully) answered here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.msg9698863#msg9698863

To understand the 10TH, have a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=888864

Regarding hashprofit, is there something that applies to my criteria that is not visible on the site (without account) ?

I think it is a conspiracy theory in relation to this hashie/amhash/asicminer thing. but this gen1 I agree they may do or were doing fractional mining however I cannot see how this may pay them out now given dropping diff. perhaps they have transferred the incentives from fractional some 2 months ago and invested into the real hardware with amhash. then stopped/suspended selling gen1. or do they still sell it?

edit: they do. It is more expensive than amhash and has higher maintenance fees. This confirms it is fractional mining.

[Puppet]

So Puppet I have to ask how you can keep GAW in the "legit" category

It isnt. And keep in mind IM only judging the cloudmining, not their paycoin/cashtaker/whatever nonsense. It does score less points because it has some provable hashrate, antminer endorsement and we know who they are. Which is more than you can say of:

while listing Bitcoincloudservices as a definite Ponzi?

Because it is, according to the criteria Im using. Which one's of those do you think, do not apply?

BCS doesn't even try to hold any BTC they pay directly into any wallet I specify.

You mean they do not hold the BTC you paid for the contract? Or you mean they pay out a fraction of that on a regular basis, just like every ponzi until it no longer does?

I like the idea, BUT your promotion of one site that at the moment is sooooooooo clearly shady as shady gets

Which one would that be?

How about Hashie? Is it for real or not?  

Its been discussed about a dozen times now, just read.

[TheIZS]

Sorry man you need to reassess the criteria if those are the results.

I was referring to GAW, they have never proven their hash power. That is the issue they most consistently dodge.

I have already made more than I put in at BCS.
The payout does the one thing that says it is actual mining, it fluctuates.

Again I really like the idea, but you're giving gold stars to shady operators, and black eyes to companies who are actually
holding up their end of the contract they sold.

I think your criteria needs to be looked at more closely, or you're applying them too loosely. 

[cloverme]

GAW are mining, whether you like it or not.

Agreed, I was highly skeptical of GAW about 2 months ago, but I've seen enough from them to know they are mining in some way/shape/form.

[Puppet]

Sorry man you need to reassess the criteria if those are the results.

Im a man of science, I dont change my criteria to achieve some preconceived conclusion, I go where the evidence leads me.

I was referring to GAW, they have never proven their hash power. That is the issue they most consistently dodge.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552.msg9378239#msg9378239
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gawminers-hashlet-sells-bitcoin-sales-per-day-overstock/

They could be doing fractional reserve mining for sure, but they have a non trivial amount of hashpower.

I have already made more than I put in at BCS.
The payout does the one thing that says it is actual mining, it fluctuates.

Making a profit proves nothing, early pbmining (/pirate/bttrader/etc/) investors also made profits. All that proves is that the ponzi is relatively successful. I could tell you that by looking at this too:

https://blockchain.info/charts/received-per-day?address=1BTCPayb5AdF8fSsR7oews2PpuVpRtamk6

As for the fluctuating payouts; how is that convincing evidence? Show me the transactions and the block generation they originate from, and I might believe they do any mining at all.

[bitgeek]

@Puppet

A honest answer, I wish in the future GAW can disprove some of the points given them in this thread.

@TheIZS

Drop it hater, anyone can check your posts and see you made this account to attack GAW, you're not posting anything besides accusations.

[Puppet]

Hashprofit seems more and more reliable? Movies on their website with pictures of there farm and it was a sponsor of a great bitcoin conference in russia. Someone been their and saw something of them? Speaked with someone?

Sponsorship is not and will never be a criterion. Just remember BT Trader sponsored all kinds of bitcoin events as well.

The video's on their site do count as something, its just that the only segment that shows any relevant capacity lasts about half a second, and the text reads 'Total power is near 350-400 MHs". Meanwhile the stats on their site show over 5000 MHs.

Oh, and I had to delete your post, no (ponzi) mining referral links allowed in this thread.

[avw1982]

Hashprofit seems more and more reliable? Movies on their website with pictures of there farm and it was a sponsor of a great bitcoin conference in russia. Someone been their and saw something of them? Speaked with someone?

Sponsorship is not and will never be a criterion. Just remember BT Trader sponsored all kinds of bitcoin events as well.

The video's on their site do count as something, its just that the only segment that shows any relevant capacity lasts about half a second, and the text reads 'Total power is near 350-400 MHs". Meanwhile the stats on their site show over 5000 MHs.

Oh, and I had to delete your post, no (ponzi) mining referral links allowed in this thread.

Ok i have deleted cointellect. Just read some about them. Is HP allowed?

[Grinder]

Just looked at the video on the Hashprofit site, and I think the part that's supposed to show a large hall of miners looks like a badly manipulated image that has been filmed. Except for the first couple of rows all the cables in each level hangs exactly the same way, the curly vertical cable curls in the exact same way, and the rows don't line up in a way that seems natural.

[Puppet]

You mean this part ?



Its not a photo, you can clearly see the fans spinning and the camera position changes. If its fake, its pretty well done.

[Grinder]

Its not a photo, you can clearly see the fans spinning and the camera position changes. If its fake, its pretty well done.

Only the first couple of vertical rows (not sure what it's called in English) have fans. Pause it just before the video of the room ends and look at the rest. It's not very hard to make a video that joins a video and a picture like this if you have the right software.

[Puppet]

Nah, what you see I think is just the border of the transition effect. You can see the same thing around the 12 second mark.
Im not saying it couldnt have been doctored, but it looks fairly convincing to me. Just not all that impressive, I dont think there could be more than 100 GPU's in that video, so likely less than 100MH. Compared to the 5200+ they claim to own.

[Grinder]

Nah, what you see I think is just the border of the transition effect.

You have to pause it just before the transition begins. The two first vertical racks of miners look completely individual in their setup (cables, how the miners are arranged and pretty much everything else), but from the third they look completely identical.

[Grinder]

I have pointed out some of the things that repeat here:

[devthedev]

Its not a photo, you can clearly see the fans spinning and the camera position changes. If its fake, its pretty well done.

Only the first couple of vertical rows (not sure what it's called in English) have fans. Pause it just before the video of the room ends and look at the rest. It's not very hard to make a video that joins a video and a picture like this if you have the right software.

Yeah, I've been a motion designer for about two years, needless to say that shot's not legit.

[avw1982]

There is a russian topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=674096.20. Some russians here who can translate what they are telling.