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Author Topic: ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁  (Read 323703 times)
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acquafredda
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February 28, 2015, 10:30:36 PM
 #721

This thread saved some BTC for me.
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Seneca said: “There is no favorable wind for the sailor who doesn’t know where to go“.
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March 01, 2015, 10:54:53 AM
 #722

this is how you prove a cloud mining site is a ponzi or not . Wait for the first payment. If received then check the blockchain.  no need to get answers from something you can find out for yourself .  With the definition of what a ponzi is moving funds around from one investor to pay another investor .   a company can also fail but it not being able to be cost effective anymore so they shut it down.   that doesnt make it a ponzi it just went of of business.  can what this guy said be true




Isn't it easy to verify though? All transactions are public. I was able to verify the integrity of one company simply by looking at the payout address. I was able to see the daily payouts, how much was paid where, and how the money arrived. If they are genuinely mining new coins that would show in the Blockchain. If, however, they are a "Ponzi Scheme" the Blockchain would show that they are only paying out based on what was paid to them. For this reason I put more trust in a cloud company who pays out from an address exclusively used to have the mined Bitcoins deposited into whereas the one-time addresses used for being paid for new contracts should go to a different final address. From there I should be able to track where the money goes, if it is cashed out or if it is used to buy new hardware. That's the real advantage of Bitcoin: The ability to see at a glance.

So anyway, if someone suspects that a given company is scamming people, how about analyzing the block chain and providing evidence? It wouldn't surprise me that someone somewhere is doing this, but from what I can tell it is much more profitable in the long run to operate an honest mining company.



your thought ?
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March 01, 2015, 11:56:46 AM
 #723

Isn't it easy to verify though? All transactions are public.

If they are genuinely mining new coins that would show in the Blockchain. If, however, they are a "Ponzi Scheme" the Blockchain would show that they are only paying out based on what was paid to them.

That's the real advantage of Bitcoin: The ability to see at a glance.

So anyway, if someone suspects that a given company is scamming people, how about analyzing the block chain and providing evidence?

your thought ?

Of course the blockchain shouldn't lie. But I don't know if blockchain analysis is as easy as you say - I'm a newbie and I looked at some transactions for fun - and at least for me it is not so easy to "see at a glance"...

Additionally, people who prefer to stay anonymous might obscure/"wash" their bitcoin transactions, which makes it even more difficult.

I would like to get an explanation of "bitcoin analysis for newbies" - but I think it's not so easy, often I see a lot of addresses and no clear connection between them...
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March 01, 2015, 02:27:57 PM
 #724

your thought ?

Ponzi's almost always pay out through coinmixers, so you cant in any meaningful way trace the transactions back to their origins. Of course thats a huge red flag by itself, but to be fair,  there are valid reasons why a company would not pay directly from mined coins, like when paying dividends through intermediaries, if they use external pools etc.

Anyway, there is a reason the number one criteria is a public mining address, but there are also reasons for the other criteria.
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March 01, 2015, 03:25:10 PM
 #725

no matter ponzi or not i get paid !
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March 01, 2015, 04:55:09 PM
 #726

no matter ponzi or not i get paid !
Until you don't.
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March 01, 2015, 10:11:30 PM
 #727

well you guys moaned about it being a ponzi .  which it is not a ponzi if its mining and how to prove it is mining i just pointed it out . by checking the blockchain . 
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March 01, 2015, 10:47:50 PM
 #728

well you guys moaned about it being a ponzi .  which it is not a ponzi if its mining and how to prove it is mining i just pointed it out . by checking the blockchain . 

Are you referring to a particular ponzi cloud mining? I have yet to see these ponzis show any mining proof in the blockchain.

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March 02, 2015, 12:14:04 AM
 #729

It is funny how as I remember everyone cried about GAW miners back in the day and a accused them of being the worst ponzi of them all. And now when I returned back to check things out GAW are more legit than some of the 'best cloud mining' companies which are proved to be a ponzi all the way.

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March 02, 2015, 12:18:29 AM
 #730

well you guys moaned about it being a ponzi .  which it is not a ponzi if its mining and how to prove it is mining i just pointed it out . by checking the blockchain . 

Are you referring to a particular ponzi cloud mining? I have yet to see these ponzis show any mining proof in the blockchain.


find out for yourself . by checking the blockchain.
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March 02, 2015, 01:04:28 AM
 #731

It is funny how as I remember everyone cried about GAW miners back in the day and a accused them of being the worst ponzi of them all.

 And now when I returned back to check things out GAW are more legit than some of the 'best cloud mining' companies which are proved to be a ponzi all the way.

Back when you made 4 accounts to promote GAW and abuse their sig campaign?

If you are ranking ponzi's (though I think they are all bad), I would have to agree that GAW is one of the worst ponzi's.

Ponzis like LTCGear or Cryptodouble paid out huge returns over short periods of time compared to GAW which strung along people for months with shitty returns.

So unless getting teased for 5 months and ending up with only 5% of what you invested is your kind of thing, I'd have to say that accusation was dead accurate.

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March 02, 2015, 01:05:17 AM
 #732

GAW are more legit than some of the 'best cloud mining' companies which are proved to be a ponzi all the way.
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March 02, 2015, 01:19:42 AM
 #733

It is funny how as I remember everyone cried about GAW miners back in the day and a accused them of being the worst ponzi of them all. And now when I returned back to check things out GAW are more legit than some of the 'best cloud mining' companies which are proved to be a ponzi all the way.

Have you missed the news that GAW "cloud" mining ended abruptly even though it was still technically profitable? How "legit" is that?

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March 02, 2015, 09:19:00 AM
 #734

It is funny how as I remember everyone cried about GAW miners back in the day and a accused them of being the worst ponzi of them all.

 And now when I returned back to check things out GAW are more legit than some of the 'best cloud mining' companies which are proved to be a ponzi all the way.

Back when you made 4 accounts to promote GAW and abuse their sig campaign?

If you are ranking ponzi's (though I think they are all bad), I would have to agree that GAW is one of the worst ponzi's.

Ponzis like LTCGear or Cryptodouble paid out huge returns over short periods of time compared to GAW which strung along people for months with shitty returns.

So unless getting teased for 5 months and ending up with only 5% of what you invested is your kind of thing, I'd have to say that accusation was dead accurate.



+1
Btw anyone knows the news about AMhash ? It's probably dead soon.
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March 02, 2015, 10:18:03 AM
 #735

amhash seems to be working. havelock is down.

I didn't notice any new update on amhash since they announced they won't be paying dividends because asicminer stopped paying them, so maybe it is working but not paying.

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March 02, 2015, 03:42:42 PM
 #736

This amhash failure is getting better and better. So they paid dividends from their own pocket for more than a month...

update

The 3.546PH AMHash's hashrates have disappeared since 25th Dec 2014. We found this problem two days later,we asked friedcat,he said it was mining farm's maintenance issues,hashrates would come back soon.But one week later,hashrates didn't come back yet.When we asked FC again, we were told that all mining devices were robbed by the partner of the mining farm.And all hashrates were out of control.
After then, FC told us that hashrates from new mining farms will be deployed, but we didn't know the amount at that time.Right now, we still don't receive any update from those new hashrates.

AMHash Team


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March 02, 2015, 03:50:28 PM
 #737

This amhash failure is getting better and better. So they paid dividends from their own pocket for more than a month...

update

The 3.546PH AMHash's hashrates have disappeared since 25th Dec 2014. We found this problem two days later,we asked friedcat,he said it was mining farm's maintenance issues,hashrates would come back soon.But one week later,hashrates didn't come back yet.When we asked FC again, we were told that all mining devices were robbed by the partner of the mining farm.And all hashrates were out of control.
After then, FC told us that hashrates from new mining farms will be deployed, but we didn't know the amount at that time.Right now, we still don't receive any update from those new hashrates.

AMHash Team
Once again, another reason to avoid cloud mining. Just because the evidence pointed to AMHash not being a ponzi, that does not mean that they cannot fail or cheat their customers whichever this case might be. Much like storing your coins on an exchange or a web wallet, you don't own anything. You just own a chit and have to hope that when it's time to collect the entity holding your bitcoin/hashpower/whaterever is still around.
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March 02, 2015, 03:53:35 PM
 #738

This amhash failure is getting better and better. So they paid dividends from their own pocket for more than a month...

update

The 3.546PH AMHash's hashrates have disappeared since 25th Dec 2014. We found this problem two days later,we asked friedcat,he said it was mining farm's maintenance issues,hashrates would come back soon.But one week later,hashrates didn't come back yet.When we asked FC again, we were told that all mining devices were robbed by the partner of the mining farm.And all hashrates were out of control.
After then, FC told us that hashrates from new mining farms will be deployed, but we didn't know the amount at that time.Right now, we still don't receive any update from those new hashrates.

AMHash Team



Now this is what I would call a truly fucked up situation  Roll Eyes

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March 02, 2015, 04:28:09 PM
 #739

Anyone remember where amhash posted their mining addresses? Id like to see those stats
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March 02, 2015, 04:39:25 PM
 #740

Anyone remember where amhash posted their mining addresses? Id like to see those stats

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=833704.msg9390799#msg9390799

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