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Author Topic: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official  (Read 196154 times)
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April 20, 2015, 12:52:23 PM
 #141

Obvious scam is obvious. The real question is how many will continue to fall for these over and over. I hope that after the last obvious pre mined scam Paycoin (XPY) people will stop wasting coins into these.
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April 20, 2015, 12:55:40 PM
 #142

beautiful scam, congratulation on scamming that money from big pockets at the beginning  Smiley

If you really want to develop a "community coin", look at reddcoin, they already have something much more advanced than neucoin
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April 20, 2015, 01:09:12 PM
 #143

Hi everyone,

Here are a couple elements, taken from an answer I gave to TaunSew's remarks on this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1025438.20

TaunSew, a couple points:

Has anyone ever validated any of the names with NeuCoin?  I don't mean people like Brock Pierce - he's been endorsing stuff all the time (like AppleByte which was a huge flop).

NeuCoin is claiming to be partnered or invested by all these big tech names (like Henrik Kjelberg) and yet nothing on social media substantiates those claims and the only returns are from Bitcointalk and Cryptonews sites which is probably info from press releases NeuCoin wrote themselves.

I’m not sure what you mean by “nothing on social media substantiates those claims”. TechCrunch also relayed our investor names, as you can check in this article: http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/03/neucoin-is-a-new-cryptocurrency-designed-for-microtransactions/
I don’t think any of them would have liked to be mentioned in this article as well as on our website if we had made up their investment Smiley
The fact that some people here think we would be making up investors or mentioning big names without their consent probably says more about how shadowy some parts of the crypto world are than it does about us. Our investors may indeed be of a caliber not commonly associated with the altcoin space, but they are certainly real - and they wouldn't allow us to use their names in TechCrunch articles if they hadn't agreed to invest.

https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4035.45

Looks like for weeks people been asking for proof about their initial investors.  Only deflections and straw mans from the slum lord Daniel Kaufman.

I checked the peercointalk thread you’ve been referring to, and nowhere it shows that we’ve been refusing to give proof about our investors.
As well, I would highly recommend you to read our plan, available here: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/ it answers most - if not all - the points mentioned below.

Fork of Peercoin (you need millions to fork Peercoin when others did it for free?)
Over the last year, the NeuCoin project team has:
  • researched the different consensus mechanisms and more particularly PoS and wrote the industry’s most comprehensive white paper explaining the advantages of proof-of-stake versus proof-of-work,
  • built an online wallet - www.MyNeuCoin.com - that is as user-friendly as any leading Bitcoin wallet - and superior to any altcoin wallet
  • built at least one consumer on-boarding website - www.GetNeuCoin.com - a game-like tutorial designed to convert mainstream users in a fun and educational way
  • built a consumer-friendly cloud mining service that lets users effortlessly earn PoS awards through “growth accounts”
  • created partnership with RadioAirplay.com, an artist promotion company that works with 250,000 emerging musicians and Jango.com, a streaming music service with 8 million monthly listeners, to develop a NeuCoin tipping platform
  • created partnership with MondoMedia, a video content producer with the largest animation channel on YouTube to develop a premium content micropayments platform
  • created a robust vault service to store and control the sale-restricted portion of founding teams’, angel investors’ and partner companies’ sale-restricted NeuCoins

And plenty of other elements.
If you think our project is only about forking Peercoin, you need to have a more in-depth look at http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/.

Questionable claims about initial investors and refusal to validate
Like I said above, the founders of NeuCoin know our investors well, they have invested in each others' ventures and worked with and built companies together in the past, and all this is public record and not something you can invent. I’m not sure where the “refusal to validate” comes from.

Grandiose goals (uhh you want to attain 1 million users in 1 year when Bitcoin is still under 250,000 after 6 years?)

Bitcoin is still nowhere in terms of mainstream adoption, and there is a reason for this: Bitcoin suffers from a real free rider problem. The costs of effectively marketing Bitcoin (ideally giving some away for free) and building truly useful applications for it are high. These high costs must be borne by individual companies, while the rewards would be spread across all existing Bitcoin holders. This misalignment of costs and rewards is what is holding back utility development and consumer adoption.
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April 20, 2015, 02:42:12 PM
 #144

Hi everyone,

Here are a couple elements, taken from an answer I gave to TaunSew's remarks on this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1025438.20

TaunSew, a couple points:

Has anyone ever validated any of the names with NeuCoin?  I don't mean people like Brock Pierce - he's been endorsing stuff all the time (like AppleByte which was a huge flop).

NeuCoin is claiming to be partnered or invested by all these big tech names (like Henrik Kjelberg) and yet nothing on social media substantiates those claims and the only returns are from Bitcointalk and Cryptonews sites which is probably info from press releases NeuCoin wrote themselves.

I’m not sure what you mean by “nothing on social media substantiates those claims”. TechCrunch also relayed our investor names, as you can check in this article: http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/03/neucoin-is-a-new-cryptocurrency-designed-for-microtransactions/
I don’t think any of them would have liked to be mentioned in this article as well as on our website if we had made up their investment Smiley
The fact that some people here think we would be making up investors or mentioning big names without their consent probably says more about how shadowy some parts of the crypto world are than it does about us. Our investors may indeed be of a caliber not commonly associated with the altcoin space, but they are certainly real - and they wouldn't allow us to use their names in TechCrunch articles if they hadn't agreed to invest.

https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4035.45

Looks like for weeks people been asking for proof about their initial investors.  Only deflections and straw mans from the slum lord Daniel Kaufman.

I checked the peercointalk thread you’ve been referring to, and nowhere it shows that we’ve been refusing to give proof about our investors.
As well, I would highly recommend you to read our plan, available here: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/ it answers most - if not all - the points mentioned below.

Fork of Peercoin (you need millions to fork Peercoin when others did it for free?)
Over the last year, the NeuCoin project team has:
  • researched the different consensus mechanisms and more particularly PoS and wrote the industry’s most comprehensive white paper explaining the advantages of proof-of-stake versus proof-of-work,
  • built an online wallet - www.MyNeuCoin.com - that is as user-friendly as any leading Bitcoin wallet - and superior to any altcoin wallet
  • built at least one consumer on-boarding website - www.GetNeuCoin.com - a game-like tutorial designed to convert mainstream users in a fun and educational way
  • built a consumer-friendly cloud mining service that lets users effortlessly earn PoS awards through “growth accounts”
  • created partnership with RadioAirplay.com, an artist promotion company that works with 250,000 emerging musicians and Jango.com, a streaming music service with 8 million monthly listeners, to develop a NeuCoin tipping platform
  • created partnership with MondoMedia, a video content producer with the largest animation channel on YouTube to develop a premium content micropayments platform
  • created a robust vault service to store and control the sale-restricted portion of founding teams’, angel investors’ and partner companies’ sale-restricted NeuCoins

And plenty of other elements.
If you think our project is only about forking Peercoin, you need to have a more in-depth look at http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/.

Questionable claims about initial investors and refusal to validate
Like I said above, the founders of NeuCoin know our investors well, they have invested in each others' ventures and worked with and built companies together in the past, and all this is public record and not something you can invent. I’m not sure where the “refusal to validate” comes from.

Grandiose goals (uhh you want to attain 1 million users in 1 year when Bitcoin is still under 250,000 after 6 years?)

Bitcoin is still nowhere in terms of mainstream adoption, and there is a reason for this: Bitcoin suffers from a real free rider problem. The costs of effectively marketing Bitcoin (ideally giving some away for free) and building truly useful applications for it are high. These high costs must be borne by individual companies, while the rewards would be spread across all existing Bitcoin holders. This misalignment of costs and rewards is what is holding back utility development and consumer adoption.

Thanks for the updates.

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April 21, 2015, 07:17:29 AM
 #145

beautiful scam, congratulation on scamming that money from big pockets at the beginning  Smiley

If you really want to develop a "community coin", look at reddcoin, they already have something much more advanced than neucoin

best scam so far 2015!

go, lose your money!!!

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April 21, 2015, 12:05:23 PM
 #146

Coming back on LiQio’s questions, which are indeed totally relevant:

- "All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote)" -> Will the foundations not be able to vote with their huge majority of coins?
It is indeed true at the beginning, which will also enable the coin to be developed according to the strategy detailed in our wiki and to be kickstarted. NeuCoin's paradigm is indeed very different from that of Bitcoin's, we have never hidden this fact: a non-premined cryptocurrency (Bitcoin) is indeed totally decentralized from the beginning but also suffers from a free rider problem - as explained in my post above.

The costs of effectively marketing Bitcoin (ideally giving some away for free) and building truly useful applications for it are high. These high costs must be borne by individual companies, while the rewards would be spread across all existing Bitcoin holders. This misalignment of costs and rewards may very well be what is holding back utility development and consumer adoption.
Bitcoin in this sense was well tailored to appeal to early bitcoiners, but not so much to mainstream consumers.
A pre-mined cryptocurrency on the other hand is going to be more centralized than Bitcoin - only at the beginning though in our case. Over time, as our plan is executed in a fully transparent way (figures will be made available before the launch of the cryptocurrency in July) and NeuCoins are distributed in a way that funds mainstream adoption, the outcome is a decentralized and mainstream cryptocurrency. Indeed, pre-mined cryptocurrencies reintroduce a trust factor during a part of the distribution phase - but at the same time, it gives them the advantage to be able to fund mainstream adoption in a must faster and efficient way. Over time, the majority of the coins will be in the hands of the crypto community and of mainstream consumers so that the future of the coin is determined by its holders in a decentralized way.

Now, it is indeed a totally different model: while it is totally fair for you to disagree with it and to not be interested in NeuCoin, calling it a scam is yet another story (answer to RealMelatasta here, definitely our biggest fan so far Smiley ).

- How will the foundations influence the market price? What is the hopefully transparent strategy (in-depth) and how is it enforced?

The foundations will manage their holdings in the way described below (http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#funding). The in-depth (figures) fund management will be made available before the release of the cryptocurrency in July; the principles are the following:
Each year, the foundations’ goal is to sell sufficient NeuCoins through private sales or exchanges to fund the following year’s cash needs. However, when NeuCoin prices rise, the foundations may sell additional coins, with the excess cash obtained kept as a “rainy day” reserve. When prices fall, fewer (or zero) coins will be sold.  
Over time, the NeuCoin foundations must continuously determine what the optimal use of their NeuCoin assets are - optimal from the perspective of maximizing the value of NeuCoin. The Growth foundation must always assess whether NeuCoin’s long-term value would be maximized by giving more coins away to consumers, or selling more coins and using the funds for consumer marketing. The Utility foundation must always assess whether NeuCoin’s long-term value would be maximized by awarding more coins (ideally with sales restrictions) to service providers that make NeuCoin more useful, or by selling more coins and using the proceeds to directly fund projects. The prevailing price and demand for NeuCoin will always have a large bearing on this decision calculus.
This will be enforced the following way: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#direct-democracy
Each foundation will be managed by an Executive Director and overseen by Council Members whose compensation packages are tightly linked to the growth in the market capitalization of NeuCoin. Furthermore, each foundation has an “Enforcer,” whose oversight role is to ensure that the Council Members are following the objectives and rules of the foundation and the results of coin holder votes as discussed below.
The initial Council Members were recruited and appointed by NeuCoin’s founding team and will serve for an initial term of three years. In the first year, the Council Members will be primarily composed of members of the NeuCoin pre-launch founding team. By the end of year one, the foundations will each recruit two independent Council Members and some of the founding team Council Members will resign from the Councils. After the first term, Council Members will stand for re-election for consecutive three year terms.

- Will there be a detailed spending plan for the huge amount of foundation stakes plus the huge amount of coins they will receive from the high reward PoS rewards before the sale of the peanuts starts?

This question revolves around your second question (let me know I’m wrong) "What is the hopefully transparent strategy (in-depth)" to which I gave an answer above. A detailed plan will be made available before the launch of the cryptocurrency in July 2015.

I (and the rest of the team) are available and happy to continue this discussion!
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April 21, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
 #147

^
Thanks for answering.

From an investors perspective I can only state the following (with some redundancy):

- you clearly overshoot the mark with those ratios, the foundations are way too mighty
- "figures will be made available before the launch of the cryptocurrency in July" -> this is too late as the presale (if we want to call it that) starts in a couple of days
- "Each year, the foundations’ goal is to sell sufficient NeuCoins through private sales or exchanges to fund the following year’s cash needs.", "when NeuCoin prices rise, the foundations may sell additional coins, with the excess cash obtained kept as a “rainy day” reserve" -> nice words, but this is certainly not precise enough for someone giving you money upfront

You demand an enormous amount of trust, patience and devotion from the 100m investors.
A sect could be successful with this approach, but I doubt that a player in a free market ever will.
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April 21, 2015, 03:45:55 PM
 #148

Cool Very interesting coin

What's interesting about it? That it is controlled by some rich kids?
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April 21, 2015, 10:14:15 PM
 #149

NeuCoin presale in 7 days - Expected to sell out quickly. What you need to know.‏

Stay away from all this BS coin owned by corporations.

Did they invest with BTC  Huh

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April 22, 2015, 10:28:45 AM
 #150

- you clearly overshoot the mark with those ratios, the foundations are way too mighty
The thing is, if the Foundations were not mighty at the beginning, they wouldn’t be able to execute any of what has been announced in the strategic plan. NeuCoin indeed has a totally different approach: power is given to entities that are powerful enough as well as centralized at the beginning to be able to kickstart the currency and avoid the stagnation of mainstream adoption, just like we’re seeing with Bitcoin. Also, the Foundations will quickly lose their powers over the first years as they distribute and sell their coins.
In any case, thanks for the feedback LiQio
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April 22, 2015, 01:20:03 PM
 #151

Quote
All the coins owned by founders and investors have re-sale restrictions for 5 years.

How is this restriction enforced? Is it part of the protocol that before a certain block number transactions from the premine address are not allowed? If not, why not?



Is this another BobSurplus coin?
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April 22, 2015, 01:28:03 PM
Last edit: April 22, 2015, 02:03:18 PM by qiwoman2
 #152

I like the idea that there is a limit to how many coins will be released to the exchanges so this should help the market cap and price of the coin be healthy in it's initial stages, am very interested and watching closely.  Smiley I just completed the survey too.. Smiley


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April 22, 2015, 02:25:16 PM
 #153

be able to kickstart the currency and avoid the stagnation of mainstream adoption, just like we’re seeing with Bitcoin. 

yeah that will happen

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April 22, 2015, 03:34:50 PM
 #154

I like the idea that there is a limit to how many coins will be released to the exchanges so this should help the market cap and price of the coin be healthy in it's initial stages, am very interested and watching closely.  Smiley I just completed the survey too.. Smiley

Rather funny to read qiwoman2 last posts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=340890;sa=showPosts Smiley
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April 22, 2015, 08:37:13 PM
 #155

Neucoin guys, I'm still waiting for reply to the timestamp grinding issue concern published last Saturday on NxtForum https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/neucoin%27s-40-page-white-paper-rebuts-all-nothing-at-stake-objections/msg174645/#msg174645

Ergo Platform core dev. Previously IOHK Research / Nxt core dev / SmartContract.com cofounder.
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April 23, 2015, 01:00:34 AM
 #156

Neucoin guys, I'm still waiting for reply to the timestamp grinding issue concern published last Saturday on NxtForum https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/neucoin%27s-40-page-white-paper-rebuts-all-nothing-at-stake-objections/msg174645/#msg174645

They can't.  I debated them about it in the other thread, there is nothing new to prevent grinding attacks.

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April 23, 2015, 10:22:36 AM
 #157

smells like XPY

Will you stake your huge premine too? Probably you will ...
koubiac
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April 23, 2015, 03:14:04 PM
 #158

Neucoin guys, I'm still waiting for reply to the timestamp grinding issue concern published last Saturday on NxtForum https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/neucoin%27s-40-page-white-paper-rebuts-all-nothing-at-stake-objections/msg174645/#msg174645

hi kushti, sorry for the delay, I just posted an answer Smiley


Neucoin guys, I'm still waiting for reply to the timestamp grinding issue concern published last Saturday on NxtForum https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/neucoin%27s-40-page-white-paper-rebuts-all-nothing-at-stake-objections/msg174645/#msg174645

They can't.  I debated them about it in the other thread, there is nothing new to prevent grinding attacks.

Jonald, it's very dishonest of you to imply you proved any point in our discussion.

If you want to have a constructive debate, please provide a detailed description of the attack you think is possible: how many coins you own, what attack are you attempting (e.g. how many blocks you want to reverse), what are the different step of the attack etc. I'll be glad to give you a detailed, clean, step by step answer (with the maths) to prove to you that it's impossible and why.

Otherwise it's just you saying "I'm sure it doesn't work" and I can't possibly provide a counter argument to that.
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April 23, 2015, 04:03:37 PM
 #159

Haha. Pot calling kettle black.

We did have a debate.  You lost imo. readers
Can make up their own minds.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007155.0

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April 23, 2015, 04:40:54 PM
Last edit: April 23, 2015, 04:54:11 PM by koubiac
 #160

Haha. Pot calling kettle black.

We did have a debate.  You lost imo.

What is that even supposed to mean?!?
What you're basically saying is that you actually haven't thought of any actual attack vector but "in your opinion" NeuCoin is not secure.

In this case, your opinion definitely isn't worth much.
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