ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[pedrog]

I don't understand this, if they could be mining 1000TH instead of sold them as USBs, that is enough to make them dominate the network. Share price would still be 4-5, and they'd be making enough to dominate the next generation.

As it is, shareholders have received zero benefits from those sales and watched their shares drop by 1000 %

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Gold_Rush#Profits

[gyverlb]

What has friedcat done? He had 30% of the pie, and the business is now trash. Even Labcoin is close to them in TH. I feel as though he ran AM into the ground purposefully.

Why would he put more TH/s online when people are willing to buy them for more than they can generate in their lifetime? The smart thing to do is to sell them for a quick profit that can be reinvested instead of betting on the hashrate to reach a plateau in the next few months (only way current 1st gen chips could be profitable even bought at cost).

I don't understand this, if they could be mining 1000TH instead of sold them as USBs, that is enough to make them dominate the network.

First the network is ~3000TH, so to "dominate the network" you would need 3000TH too, today. More tomorrow.
Second the network pays 25BTC every ~10 minutes, if selling hardware brings more money than that, why the hell would anyone want to mine instead of selling hardware ? Dominating the network isn't a goal, maximizing profit is.

Share price would still be 4-5, and they'd be making enough to dominate the next generation.

As if competitors wouldn't try to do the same. They don't play in an isolated environment.

As it is, shareholders have received zero benefits from those sales and watched their shares drop by 1000 %

Math fail (might explain the confusion above) or liberal use of nonsense. Think more before writing or troll elsewhere depending on the case.

[pedrog]

"All the above is right, but "dominating the network" is really good publicity for selling overpriced miners!

[freedomno1]

Hey remember the theory of the secretary FC is getting extra familiar with in the farm room? Is it possible that she is the Chinese girl interviewing him! 


GOSSIP ALERT GOSSIP ALERT GOSSIP ALERT

That was so 10 pages ago And I said that one already he-he

[lophie]

Hey remember the theory of the secretary FC is getting extra familiar with in the farm room? Is it possible that she is the Chinese girl interviewing him! 


GOSSIP ALERT GOSSIP ALERT GOSSIP ALERT

That was so 10 pages ago And I said that one already he-he

No shortage of trolls around here it seems

[freedomno1]

Hey remember the theory of the secretary FC is getting extra familiar with in the farm room? Is it possible that she is the Chinese girl interviewing him! 


GOSSIP ALERT GOSSIP ALERT GOSSIP ALERT

That was so 10 pages ago And I said that one already he-he

No shortage of trolls around here it seems

Its a quiet night

[kingcrimson]

What has friedcat done? He had 30% of the pie, and the business is now trash. Even Labcoin is close to them in TH. I feel as though he ran AM into the ground purposefully.

Why would he put more TH/s online when people are willing to buy them for more than they can generate in their lifetime? The smart thing to do is to sell them for a quick profit that can be reinvested instead of betting on the hashrate to reach a plateau in the next few months (only way current 1st gen chips could be profitable even bought at cost).

I don't understand this, if they could be mining 1000TH instead of sold them as USBs, that is enough to make them dominate the network.

First the network is ~3000TH, so to "dominate the network" you would need 3000TH too, today. More tomorrow.
Second the network pays 25BTC every ~10 minutes, if selling hardware brings more money than that, why the hell would anyone want to mine instead of selling hardware ? Dominating the network isn't a goal, maximizing profit is.

Maximizing profit, when the share price dropped from 5 to .5? I would say it is the opposite. They may have made more money selling, but now they are sunk, with some vague promises about next year. At least if they were hashing 1000 TH they would still be #1 for several months longer. Image means a lot in business. Then the share price may not have risen and crashed so traumatically. I think a lot of people are pissed right now because of how this was handled.

[velacreations]

As it is, shareholders have received zero benefits from those sales and watched their shares drop by 1000 %

as much as 3/4 of our weekly dividends come from hardware sales.

Hardware sales is what made the share price rise 1000% in the first place.

[kingcrimson]

As it is, shareholders have received zero benefits from those sales and watched their shares drop by 1000 %

as much as 3/4 of our weekly dividends come from hardware sales.

Hardware sales is what made the share price rise 1000% in the first place.

My bad, didn't see the #s , was very wrong. Pretty complex situation though, someone could write a business thesis about it.

[romerun]

If FC deployed hash to the official pool, the pie chart will be nice, share rises, share holders are more happy, but the actual income pry less than selling them

[dexX7]

I don't understand this, if they could be mining 1000TH instead of sold them as USBs, that is enough to make them dominate the network. Share price would still be 4-5, and they'd be making enough to dominate the next generation.

As it is, shareholders have received zero benefits from those sales and watched their shares drop by 1000 %

I hope everyone purchased more shares now that they are cheap*, because as the following numbers may break some bear spines..

To put the ASICMINER financial report in some perspective:

According to the income statement last quarter includes:

Income: 104,622.45 BTC (mining: 33,020.91 BTC, hardware sales: 71,601.54 BTC)
Expenses: 20,109.31 BTC
Net income: 84,513.14 BTC

It's not all that clear which time span the report covers, so let's say 13 - 15 weeks to include all possibilities. This results in the following weekly averages:

Income per week: 6,974.83 - 8,047.88 BTC
Expenses per week: 1,340.62 - 1,546.87 BTC
Net income per week: 5,634.21 - 6,501.01 BTC

Mining a block rewards 25 BTC and 6 - 7 blocks are mined hourly, depending on the increase of the hashrate.

So there are 150 - 175 BTC mined each hour, 3,600 - 4,200 BTC each day and 25,200 - 29,400 BTC each week.

Or in total 327,600 - 382,200 BTC are mined in 13 weeks and 378,000 - 441,000 BTC in 15 weeks.

This means:

ASICMINER generated an income which equals 23.72 - 31.94 % of all mined coins in this quarter.

Subtracting the expenses (i.e. electricity and hardware cost) results in a net income of 19.16 - 25.80 % of all mined coins in this time frame.

The balance sheet shows that there are 5,484.66 BTC, 393,202.00 USD and 15,318,262.72 RMB in assets, whereby 5,484.66 BTC and 4,480,310.50 RMB are in form of cash.

With an exchange rate of 6.087 RMB/USD and 198.28 USD/BTC this equals:

ASICMINER owns assets with a BTC value of 20,159.64 BTC (with 9,196,81 BTC in cash)
Or converted to their USD value: 3,997,254.14 USD (with 1,823,544.13 USD in cash)
Or converted to their RMB value: 24,331,285.96 RMB (with 11,099,913.17 RMB in cash)


*I'm not very serious, please draw your own conclusion. This is just a quote which some may recognize.

[stripykitteh]

Maximizing profit, when the share price dropped from 5 to .5? I would say it is the opposite. They may have made more money selling, but now they are sunk, with some vague promises about next year. At least if they were hashing 1000 TH they would still be #1 for several months longer. Image means a lot in business. Then the share price may not have risen and crashed so traumatically. I think a lot of people are pissed right now because of how this was handled.

The share price has nothing to do with whether they maximized profit. AM got way overvalued because it was for a while the only ASIC company with a good reputation that you *could* invest in. The correction was inevitable.

I don't think FC would want to mine 1000TH on the Gen 1 tech, that would take about 7MW of power, which would generate a terrific amount of heat. There isn't a data centre in Shenzen that could handle that load.

AM have stumbled getting a second generation of chip out the door but their share price would have dropped anyway.

A lot of people are pissed right now because they bought in to the hype when the whales were quietly making their way to the exits. They deluded themselves.

[ventolin]

Somebody, please, explain me: how to sell my shares that was automatic transfer to Friedcat?

[KCBitcoin]

Somebody, please, explain me: how to sell my shares that was automatic transfer to Friedcat?

Importing Shares to Havelock Investment
There is no fee to import shares. There is no minimum quantity for importing shares.

How to Import Direct Shares:
1. Send an e-mail to fnnirvana@gmail.com & TAT Investments at tat.investments@gmail.com with the following message:

”Friedcat, please transfer (X) of my shares to the TAT Investments account at 1rHfXj4AwH9zymwwJuXnbXLiDbAE9V1uz -- tat.investments@gmail.com”

Also include the following info:
- Your current ASICMINER share-holding wallet address & e-mail address
- The quantity of shares you wish to transfer

2. If the e-mail address you have on file with ASICMINER is different than the one you use for your Havelock account, you MUST send an e-mail from the e-mail address you have registered with Havelock confirming this import request. If this is the case, please provided a dated, signed message from the host wallet to confirm ownership.
3. After confirmation from Friedcat is received, the AM1 shares will be added to your account within 48 hours or less.

NOTE: TAT Investments is not responsible for delays or errors in transfer confirmations by ASICMINER staff.
Please follow these instructions carefully to avoid problems.

[hlynur]

Somebody, please, explain me: how to sell my shares that was automatic transfer to Friedcat?

Importing Shares to Havelock Investment
There is no fee to import shares. There is no minimum quantity for importing shares.

How to Import Direct Shares:
1. Send an e-mail to fnnirvana@gmail.com & TAT Investments at tat.investments@gmail.com with the following message:

”Friedcat, please transfer (X) of my shares to the TAT Investments account at 1rHfXj4AwH9zymwwJuXnbXLiDbAE9V1uz -- tat.investments@gmail.com”

Also include the following info:
- Your current ASICMINER share-holding wallet address & e-mail address
- The quantity of shares you wish to transfer

2. If the e-mail address you have on file with ASICMINER is different than the one you use for your Havelock account, you MUST send an e-mail from the e-mail address you have registered with Havelock confirming this import request. If this is the case, please provided a dated, signed message from the host wallet to confirm ownership.
3. After confirmation from Friedcat is received, the AM1 shares will be added to your account within 48 hours or less.

NOTE: TAT Investments is not responsible for delays or errors in transfer confirmations by ASICMINER staff.
Please follow these instructions carefully to avoid problems.

thanks for the instructions, i planned on doing that for some time now.
since the bitcointalk downtime recently i suppose havelock is probably a better place for AM shares than solely relying on forum auction system.

[irritant]

this must be some kind of error right?

http://asicminercharts.com/

[supert]

According to the income statement last quartal includes:

Income: 104,622.45 BTC (mining: 33,020.91 BTC, hardware sales: 71,601.54 BTC)
Expenses: 20,109.31 BTC
Net income: 84,513.14 BTC

It's not all that clear which time span the report covers, so let's say 13 - 15 weeks to include all possibilities. This results in the following weekly averages:

Income per week: 6,974.83 - 8,047.88 BTC
Expenses per week: 1,340.62 - 1,546.87 BTC
Net income per week: 5,634.21 - 6,501.01 BTC

Mining a block rewards 25 BTC and 6 - 7 blocks are mined hourly, depending on the increase of the hashrate.

So there are 150 - 175 BTC mined each hour, 3,600 - 4,200 BTC each day and 25,200 - 29,400 BTC each week.

Or in total 327,600 - 382,200 BTC are mined in 13 weeks and 378,000 - 441,000 BTC in 15 weeks.

This means:

ASICMINER generated an income which equals 23.72 - 31.94 % of all mined coins in this quartal.

Subtracting the expenses (i.e. electricity and hardware cost) results in a net income of 19.16 - 25.80 % of all mined coins in this time frame.

The balance sheet shows that there are 5,484.66 BTC, 393,202.00 USD and 15,318,262.72 RMB in assets, whereby 5,484.66 BTC and 4,480,310.50 RMB are in form of cash.

With an exchange rate of 6.087 RMB/USD and 198.28 USD/BTC this equals:

ASICMINER owns assets with a BTC value of 20,159.64 BTC (with 9,196,81 BTC in cash)
Or converted to their USD value: 3,997,254.14 USD (with 1,823,544.13 USD in cash)
Or converted to their RMB value: 24,331,285.96 RMB (with 11,099,913.17 RMB in cash)

(104622-20109)*3/53 = 4876 BTC per week
which is 0.012 BTC per week per share, which is what we saw more or less.

This is an effective share of 15% of the network over the last quarter.

Not clear on the time period (which is very important) but this would indicate a quarter.

But, I'm having trouble reconciling it with the cashflow statement.

Notice also that expenses go down in BTC terms since the recent price rise.

Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

[ex-trader]

Three problems with claiming there's any glory in these statements.

1. The income is not all mining it's part hardware (a big part), and the price and demand for these has tumbled.

2. The average hash share over the period was maybe good, but it's 3 months and it basically declined through the period, it started in the 10-20% range of the network and ended at 1-2%. The most relevent one is the current levels. From 29/7-29/10 ( 3 months) AM hashrate rse slightly from 38 to 62 TH, but the network grew from 223TH to 2798TH.

3. Having 4m USD equivalent sounds good, but thats a Net Asset Value of only 0.04 BTC/share. Thats not to say this determines price, but it bascially should have negligible influence on the actual value.

[dexX7]

(104622-20109)*3/53 = 4876 BTC per week
which is 0.012 BTC per week per share, which is what we saw more or less.

This is an effective share of 15% of the network over the last quarter.

How do you come up with 15 % or 4,876 BTC per week? This would take 17.33 weeks to cover the net income of 84,513 BTC. A quarter covers 1/4 of a year, not 1/3.

The last financial statement was published on 23 July 2013. The time span between Oct 27 and Jul 23 is 96 days or 13.71 weeks. I covered 13 - 15 weeks to include some buffer and came up with 19.16 - 25.80 % of all mined coins and 23.72 - 31.94 % without expenses.

But, I'm having trouble reconciling it with the cashflow statement.

The expenses were listed with 210,119.50 USD and 12,680,873.16 RMB. With an exchange rate of 6.087 RMB/USD this is combined 2,293,390.92 USD. BTC nominated expenses are stated with 20,109.31 BTC.

2,293,390.92 USD/20,109.31 BTC = 114.05 USD/BTC

This exchange rate seems plausible, so I guess the expenses listed in the income statement are the same as in the cash flow statement/expense breakdown.

Edit:

Three problems with claiming there's any glory in these statements.

1. The income is not all mining it's part hardware (a big part), and the price and demand for these has tumbled.

2. The average hash share over the period was maybe good, but it's 3 months and it basically declined through the period, it started in the 10-20% range of the network and ended at 1-2%. The most relevent one is the current levels. From 29/7-29/10 ( 3 months) AM hashrate rse slightly from 38 to 62 TH, but the network grew from 223TH to 2798TH.

Yup, that's true. To increase the income something must be done of course. From 02 October 2013:

8. Financial Report
The next official ASICMINER Financial Report is scheduled to be released on October 20s. We had been in the process of accumulating reserves for a two-year-based small lab (all salaries) and a full mask cost for 40nm for one month. Additional income may be reserved for other chip advancements.

This sounds as if the process of accumulating reserves was already finished when this post was published. Without further information there is no way to determine, if gen 2 hardware is already in production or not though.

[Lohoris]

there's still 131,000 shares outside of Havelock. What's happening to those shares? I am not seeing panic selling on the auctions forum here. Are there other major BTC boards or forums where people trade BTC stock?

You could look at the direct shares list to know if they are being aggregated somewhere or not (I guess not).
I guess most people who still have some shares are in "wait and see" mode.