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Author Topic: GekkoScience BM1384 Project Development Discussion  (Read 143156 times)
sidehack
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August 31, 2015, 02:34:03 PM
 #1761

The A1 (as seen in Bitmine and LK Dragons and stuff) was an Innosilicon chip. The A2 (Terminators) was Innosilicon's scrypt offering. If I'm understanding right, they're working on an A3 (sha256) and A4 (scrypt) right now.

Last we talked to them, they apparently had sample chips taped out (probably a short batch of engineering samples) but didn't really care to pass any out. They were more interesed in million-dollar customers tossing down on big batches. I don't know why anyone would lay down on a big batch without first getting samples.

Avalon didn't reply to the last couple emails I sent them but I'll try again. Earlier this year I inquired about chips and they said they'd have a new generation out around July (this was at the same time Bitmain told me they'd have a new chip in June). When I got back to them closer to July I was told the target was moved back to September. Being as September starts tomorrow it'd be nice to know if they pulled it off.

Bitmain says if they come up with some extra chips in the next couple weeks they'll let me know.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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notlist3d
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August 31, 2015, 03:47:11 PM
 #1762

The A1 (as seen in Bitmine and LK Dragons and stuff) was an Innosilicon chip. The A2 (Terminators) was Innosilicon's scrypt offering. If I'm understanding right, they're working on an A3 (sha256) and A4 (scrypt) right now.

Last we talked to them, they apparently had sample chips taped out (probably a short batch of engineering samples) but didn't really care to pass any out. They were more interesed in million-dollar customers tossing down on big batches. I don't know why anyone would lay down on a big batch without first getting samples.

Avalon didn't reply to the last couple emails I sent them but I'll try again. Earlier this year I inquired about chips and they said they'd have a new generation out around July (this was at the same time Bitmain told me they'd have a new chip in June). When I got back to them closer to July I was told the target was moved back to September. Being as September starts tomorrow it'd be nice to know if they pulled it off.

Bitmain says if they come up with some extra chips in the next couple weeks they'll let me know.

I would not count on A3 or A4 right now.  I think it will be a bit and we will see LKETC stuff.  But they are working on 2 next gen chips at once... very few do that.   Bitmain got the jump for better or worse by sticking with same nm chips.

I do think the good thing is innsilicon will most likely sell chips once released.  But I'm not sure they will be soon.   So good for next project once its out but I think a bit on chips, I hope I'm wrong though.

I hope Bitmain finds some chips to sell to you in the mean time, I really hope the support future projects.  But I'm not sure how big it is on their radar.

I guess no matter what chip you use in next project I look forward to it.  You made a quality product on first release, and I honestly hope to see a long line of products over time.
PlanetCrypto
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August 31, 2015, 04:22:11 PM
 #1763

Well their chip release post over one week ago said they would be accepting orders for the chips soon, iirc?

But now sidehack posted a message with them clearly stating "NO SHIP FOR YOU BUY S7s" >.>

GS is not alone, we got the same BS response (more than once) when we inquired about buying industrial quantities of chips.

Like being told to buy a new car when all one needs is a set of spark plugs.

PlanetCrypto
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August 31, 2015, 04:30:10 PM
 #1764

If not from Bitmain, maybe Canaan-Creative or InnoSilicon. Someone's gotta take care of the 99%, right?

You know, when I was asking about 1384 they asked me if I'd rather not buy a bunch of discounted U3 and take chips off them instead - until I reminded them that the U3 had 1382 on it and that wouldn't do me any good.

Well, you could buy 20 odd A3222's (the 25GH/s 0.4-0.6J/Gh things) off avalon themselves for 0.72btc. now, unless they are lying about having 9 stacks of 20 chips for sale at their store..
unless you're waiting for their new-bute hot out of the silicon oven chips (which i haven kept up with whats in r&d since the a3222 release earlier this year)?

as for InnoSilicon, isn't the A1, A2 and the upcoming A3 all S-crypt? what is this "A1 CoinCraft"? am i missing something?

little googling found out the Coincraft A1/A1 Booster is bitmines re-branded chip from innosilicon, but going by their site, A1 is a S-Crypt ASIC. so what is the A3 going to cover?

The A3 is Scrypt, the A4 is SHA-256.
The have a prototype run of both and are looking for vaporware funding (a pre-buy in bulk qty's) for a tapeout of production units.
I know cuz' we asked, but I'm NOT going to dump a ton of cash to fund their dev effort (shades of BFL).
If we're going to dump a ton of cash on an endeavor like that it'll be our own dev or community dev effort.

sidehack
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August 31, 2015, 04:46:37 PM
 #1765

Ah, looks like I had those new chip numbers backward. Yeah I'd pay down for even a handful of their engineering samples but they aren't going to get anything from us without delivering sample chips first.

Also... looks like our robot should be delivered today.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
philipma1957
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August 31, 2015, 04:58:25 PM
 #1766

Ah, looks like I had those new chip numbers backward. Yeah I'd pay down for even a handful of their engineering samples but they aren't going to get anything from us without delivering sample chips first.

Also... looks like our robot should be delivered today.

well  at least some good news.

Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
PlanetCrypto
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August 31, 2015, 05:29:02 PM
 #1767

The A1 (as seen in Bitmine and LK Dragons and stuff) was an Innosilicon chip. The A2 (Terminators) was Innosilicon's scrypt offering. If I'm understanding right, they're working on an A3 (sha256) and A4 (scrypt) right now.

Last we talked to them, they apparently had sample chips taped out (probably a short batch of engineering samples) but didn't really care to pass any out. They were more interesed in million-dollar customers tossing down on big batches. I don't know why anyone would lay down on a big batch without first getting samples.

Avalon didn't reply to the last couple emails I sent them but I'll try again. Earlier this year I inquired about chips and they said they'd have a new generation out around July (this was at the same time Bitmain told me they'd have a new chip in June). When I got back to them closer to July I was told the target was moved back to September. Being as September starts tomorrow it'd be nice to know if they pulled it off.

Bitmain says if they come up with some extra chips in the next couple weeks they'll let me know.

We have an incoming $3500 payment from a customer coming in.
I have ear marked this money to buy a small quantity (~1K) of chips from BM, assuming they decide to sell some.
Having said that, I'm a slut, if any other chip supplier has a suitable chip for sale prior to that they'll get the $3500 (first come first served).
Whomever's chips will be shipped to GS (with their approval ofc) for insertion onto hash boards.
We assume that a certain number of chips would be destroyed n the development process.

Once a suitable design is manufactured and field proven we'd be up for a real quantity purchase of chips (and then boards, ofc).

And regarding capex equipment purchases, I've had my eye on a CNC router for more than a year.
Something that will route polycarbonate and thin sheet AL for immersion tank construction.

Made a corporate decision a while back that we're done buying equipment that has a programmed obsolescence (S(odd) and C1).
I'm sick and tired of replacing perfectly good equipment every 6 months - a year solely due to fixed a Vcore which caps the maximum efficiency of the gear.
Screw that.
And yeah I know I could rip apart miners, mod the hash boards (at least to some extent) and get better efficiency. That's a doable option on 1-5 machines but not on 50+.

It is my belief that even the venerable S1, had it been designed with a reasonable lifespan in mind, could be profitable to operate in today's environment given an adjustable Vcore and clock. But it wasn't and neither was any of the BM follow on products. I believe this was part of a designed marketing campaign to continue to sell "new" equipment. Smart practice for miner manufacturer's but not very good for the 200Th/s and down crowd. As such, we're committed to purchasing/building equipment that will "stand the test of time" versus a throw-away mentality.

GS's designs embody this thought process and consequently we will opt to buy their product(s) over a competitor's.

Phil - I am very curious to hear, when your S7's come in, whether one can adjust Vcore and if so by how much.

PlanetCrypto
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August 31, 2015, 05:38:45 PM
 #1768

Ah, looks like I had those new chip numbers backward. Yeah I'd pay down for even a handful of their engineering samples but they aren't going to get anything from us without delivering sample chips first.

I'd refine that to samples of production units versus samples of a test run. Cuz' a whole bunch of stuff could change as a result of test chip testing.

Also... looks like our robot should be delivered today.

Finally, the saga might be over.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya'.

RichBC
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August 31, 2015, 05:53:42 PM
 #1769

Phil - I am very curious to hear, when your S7's come in, whether one can adjust Vcore and if so by how much.

From the work I have done on the S5, in particular the V1.91 Hash Board that has an oscillator for every 4 pairs of chips, as opposed to one for the whole board on all other revisions. I think that the S7 (and the s5+) which look to have an oscillator for every trio of chips, my expectation is that it will downvolt to the bottom limit of the chips? 

However the proof will be in the testing...


Rich

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philipma1957
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August 31, 2015, 06:50:33 PM
 #1770



We have an incoming $3500 payment from a customer coming in.
I have ear marked this money to buy a small quantity (~1K) of chips from BM, assuming they decide to sell some.
Having said that, I'm a slut, if any other chip supplier has a suitable chip for sale prior to that they'll get the $3500 (first come first served).
Whomever's chips will be shipped to GS (with their approval ofc) for insertion onto hash boards.
We assume that a certain number of chips would be destroyed n the development process.

Once a suitable design is manufactured and field proven we'd be up for a real quantity purchase of chips (and then boards, ofc).

And regarding capex equipment purchases, I've had my eye on a CNC router for more than a year.
Something that will route polycarbonate and thin sheet AL for immersion tank construction.

Made a corporate decision a while back that we're done buying equipment that has a programmed obsolescence (S(odd) and C1).
I'm sick and tired of replacing perfectly good equipment every 6 months - a year solely due to fixed a Vcore which caps the maximum efficiency of the gear.
Screw that.
And yeah I know I could rip apart miners, mod the hash boards (at least to some extent) and get better efficiency. That's a doable option on 1-5 machines but not on 50+.

It is my belief that even the venerable S1, had it been designed with a reasonable lifespan in mind, could be profitable to operate in today's environment given an adjustable Vcore and clock. But it wasn't and neither was any of the BM follow on products. I believe this was part of a designed marketing campaign to continue to sell "new" equipment. Smart practice for miner manufacturer's but not very good for the 200Th/s and down crowd. As such, we're committed to purchasing/building equipment that will "stand the test of time" versus a throw-away mentality.

GS's designs embody this thought process and consequently we will opt to buy their product(s) over a competitor's.

Phil - I am very curious to hear, when your S7's come in, whether one can adjust Vcore and if so by how much.


I just helped a friend to build his commercial cnc machine in the brooklyn navy yard  it can do copper brass and aluminum.

They are costly even at the lower end commercial models.  We did his for 12k.  Much of the work was diy.  I built the pc for it he had the mounting table and frame welded by local people in the brooklyn navy yard.

the pc boards, gearing, motors, spindles collects. you buy as a kit form. 1 set of percison collect is over 300 usd. alone.   I was at his shop on fri.  he is cutting some speaker boxes for me. I know him from a speaker building club.

when I get the s-7 I am going to try to find the lowest freq say 150 vs 300 (a guess at what the numbers will be)

then run at freq 150 hopefully giving me 200 watts and 800gh a blade.

I will then try to get 10.8 volts in stead of 12 volts to drive machine

Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
notlist3d
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August 31, 2015, 07:52:44 PM
 #1771

Ah, looks like I had those new chip numbers backward. Yeah I'd pay down for even a handful of their engineering samples but they aren't going to get anything from us without delivering sample chips first.

Also... looks like our robot should be delivered today.

I lurk this thread a lot Smiley.  Congratz that is great news on robot sounded like an pain to get.

Can't wait till you are pumping out miners Smiley
sidehack
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September 01, 2015, 02:11:07 AM
 #1772

Oh by the way. The robot arrived about 6PM. I got it unboxed but am still learning how to use it. My goal is to have a full panel of Compacs populated by day's end tomorrow.
Novak's got some assembly to do, so we'll get to test out the oven for a couple things as well. So that's good news at least.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
bmoscato
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September 01, 2015, 02:45:37 AM
 #1773

Oh by the way. The robot arrived about 6PM. I got it unboxed but am still learning how to use it. My goal is to have a full panel of Compacs populated by day's end tomorrow.
Novak's got some assembly to do, so we'll get to test out the oven for a couple things as well. So that's good news at least.

Thanks for the update. It would be cool if you uploaded a picture or 2 of the robot when you get that bad boy rolling.
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September 01, 2015, 03:10:33 AM
 #1774

Oh by the way. The robot arrived about 6PM. I got it unboxed but am still learning how to use it. My goal is to have a full panel of Compacs populated by day's end tomorrow.
Novak's got some assembly to do, so we'll get to test out the oven for a couple things as well. So that's good news at least.

I know your busy but once you get a chance please take some pics of the robot in work Smiley.  I'm excited to hear the good news for poject.
PlanetCrypto
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September 01, 2015, 03:32:13 AM
 #1775

Oh by the way. The robot arrived about 6PM. I got it unboxed but am still learning how to use it. My goal is to have a full panel of Compacs populated by day's end tomorrow.
Novak's got some assembly to do, so we'll get to test out the oven for a couple things as well. So that's good news at least.

Take a vid of robot in action, pretty please (with a cherry on top).

notlist3d
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September 01, 2015, 03:39:07 AM
 #1776

Oh by the way. The robot arrived about 6PM. I got it unboxed but am still learning how to use it. My goal is to have a full panel of Compacs populated by day's end tomorrow.
Novak's got some assembly to do, so we'll get to test out the oven for a couple things as well. So that's good news at least.

Take a vid of robot in action, pretty please (with a cherry on top).


Even better then my idea of picture Smiley.  I am very excited to see them get it.

Truly all the work they have put in they deserve a good sucess on this project.  I still stick with my saying he cares for miners, which is nice to see.
sidehack
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September 01, 2015, 03:40:11 AM
 #1777

I didn't get to sleep until super late last night because I couldn't get the numbers out of my head for some problems I would run into on TypeZero design. And of course today I didn't write down a darn thing because I spent the whole day fixing hosted miners and prepping for the robot. The next few days will be all Compac, getting the assembly and testing process ironed out, and then once we're caught up on orders (and probably out of parts again) I'll be back to work on new product dev. The first thing will be assembling a test buck for the 4-chip and making sure it works as expected, which will probably require Novak to do a bit of ASM so I can test software voltage changing. We haven't yet ironed out everything that'll be going into the controls but we've got a pretty good idea.

As I've said before, I want to have a working (at the hardware level at least) 4-chip and 30-chip with BM1384 before September is out.

But first I have a couple hundred stick miners to build. Y'all been waiting too long.

I would consider video, but I don't have a YouTube account. I mean I used to, back when it was YouTube - my account predated the Google buyout by several years. When the university here decided to outsource email to Google (lazy jerks), somehow without my consent my now-Google university email locked itself to my now-Google YouTube account and disconnecting them (as I had never authorized them to be connected in the first place) denied me the ability to log into my YouTube account since Google decided that all accounts, even accounts predating their takover, would require a Google master account to use. So, account deleted. For those who don't know me too well, I despise Google and refuse to participate in anything involving their servers (as much as possible; sometimes they're sneaky) because I don't want to make it easy for them to profit by raiding my life story, the sleazy bastards. Long story short, no videos from me.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
philipma1957
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September 01, 2015, 04:06:32 AM
 #1778

A photo or two on imgur works . Unless they are Google owned.

I try to use bing and yahoo when possible.

Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
AJRGale
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September 01, 2015, 04:21:34 AM
 #1779

A photo or two on imgur works . Unless they are Google owned.

I try to use bing and yahoo when possible.

yeeesss, bing all the things! Microsoft wants to know alll about you! raise your hand if you're a poor sod who has win7/8/10.. look at all them sheeple ..

if you'd excuse me, i have some grass to chew on..
sidehack
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September 01, 2015, 04:35:01 AM
 #1780

My office desk machine runs Windows 7, but only because crappy modern browsers are so friggin' bloated they started requiring more than 2GB RAM to keep from crashing every couple days. Everything else is XP or Linux. My opinion, Windows hasn't made a really good OS since 2000. XP did a very few things better than 2K and many things a fair bit worse. Nothing they've done since is close to decent. After a couple days of paring I got Win7 working moderately well, and it has proven to be stable - I had almost 290 days uptime before a power outage took out my machine. But that doesn't excuse the fact it installs (and by "installs" I mean "copies a preassembled image") to 20GB drive space and boots to 2GB RAM for the same actual functionality I could get out of a 3GB XP install that boots to 80MB. It's retarded where Windows has gone, and even more retarded where it's going.

My default search engine is ixquick. From what I can tell, they're pretty not evil.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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