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Author Topic: GekkoScience BM1384 Project Development Discussion  (Read 146174 times)
QuintLeo
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September 05, 2015, 09:50:17 AM
 #1801


The Rocks Compute Cluster is used primarily to generate 4K/8K/16K DH keys and large Mersenne primes.


 GIMPS?
 Or something else?


Something else, an in-house written DH Key generation routine which uses as it's seed a large Mersenne Prime.
These large primes are no where near as large as the primes GIMPS is working on, but still fall into the definition of large.


 I'm guessing it's the DH key that's soaking all the computation power, as all Mersenne primes up to the 44'th one have been calculated and verified, along with 4 more Mersenne primes past that but not all of the "inbetween" candidates after the 44'th prime have been verified.

 I can only think of one person/group that is likely to be putting $4k/month into the GIMPS effort - Dr. Cooper of one of the Missouri universities - and that's WITH the backing of the university administration to run GIMPS on most of the computers at that university.

 At the kind of power level you use, why aren't you in a "cheap power" area? Seems like dropping your power costs from 12/kwh to under 5/kwh would save you a TON of money.

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sidehack
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September 05, 2015, 02:01:58 PM
 #1802

I hear tell he's working on negotiating lower power rates.

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September 05, 2015, 03:57:25 PM
 #1803

Huh, have you considered using your cluster to mine altcoins that are cpu-friendly? CryptoNight comes to mind as an algorithm with little to no gpu advantage (and no FPGA or ASIC implementations).

Since you've already got the hardware, it's free money--provided the revenue is greater than your power bills.

Have never been a Altcoin kinda' guy so never looked into it, think that's about to change.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Most of the nodes are nVidia card enhanced (C20's and Quadro 5600's).
My preliminary guess is the power cost will be larger than the revenue stream.
As each node "wastes" a lot of energy on "house keeping" chores.
i.e. power not used in computation.

I'll run some calcs and see if it's worth the hate, hassle, and discontent to run a couple of day test.
And report back with findings.

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sidehack
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September 05, 2015, 04:14:33 PM
 #1804

Don't forget to consider you'll probably want to switch coins relatively often as fads change and bubbles burst.

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
Currently in development - 200+GH USB stick; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
PlanetCrypto
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September 05, 2015, 04:25:57 PM
 #1805


The Rocks Compute Cluster is used primarily to generate 4K/8K/16K DH keys and large Mersenne primes.


 GIMPS?
 Or something else?


Something else, an in-house written DH Key generation routine which uses as it's seed a large Mersenne Prime.
These large primes are no where near as large as the primes GIMPS is working on, but still fall into the definition of large.


 I'm guessing it's the DH key that's soaking all the computation power, as all Mersenne primes up to the 44'th one have been calculated and verified, along with 4 more Mersenne primes past that but not all of the "inbetween" candidates after the 44'th prime have been verified.

 I can only think of one person/group that is likely to be putting $4k/month into the GIMPS effort - Dr. Cooper of one of the Missouri universities - and that's WITH the backing of the university administration to run GIMPS on most of the computers at that university.

 At the kind of power level you use, why aren't you in a "cheap power" area? Seems like dropping your power costs from 12/kwh to under 5/kwh would save you a TON of money.


You're spot on, the DH key generation is the core hog.
Using large primes as seeds, to some extent, speeds up large DH key generation but also makes the keys more deterministic due to the finite number of seeds (large primes).

To those ends, we are developing, in H/W, a non-deterministic large TRNG (True Random Number Generator) ASIC.
Where large is defined as 16K+ bits, implemented as a USB dongle, and can generate 5-10 TRN's per second.

Most, if not all of the H/W TRNG's I've evaluated are deterministic. As most use the noise off of an electronic circuit as the seed. Given a large enough sample it becomes repetitive (shades of chaos theory), i.e. crackable with a brute force attack. And a  large number of those also have "backdoors", i.e. one can force the TRNG output to a known value through simple code implemented in the corresponding driver software.

Wonder why that is?Huh Ahhhh, the illusion of security/privacy.

So if someone tells me they have a TRNG, IMHO, they're lying through their teeth.
We aim to change that.

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PlanetCrypto
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September 05, 2015, 04:26:55 PM
 #1806

Don't forget to consider you'll probably want to switch coins relatively often as fads change and bubbles burst.

Yet another reason I've never been an Altcoin fan.

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PlanetCrypto
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September 05, 2015, 04:32:22 PM
 #1807

I hear tell he's working on negotiating lower power rates.

No secrets here, am working through getting $0.0465/Kwh power online.
Which requires a BUTTLOAD of BS paperwork and all new equipment (Load centers, outlets, conduit, meter bases, etc, ad nausem), which ofc has to be to NEC.

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PlanetCrypto
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September 05, 2015, 04:35:38 PM
 #1808

To date have not heard back from BM about chips.
That's either real good or real bad.

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sidehack
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September 05, 2015, 04:50:45 PM
 #1809

Yeah, you couldn't pay me to mine altcoins. It seems to be a zero-sum game driven by speculation and lucky timing. People funnel money into one coin until a few people have all the money, and then the coin evaporates and they funnel money into the next one until someone else has all the money. I'll stick to bitcoin. Its value may be heavily influenced by supply and speculation but at least it has utility. How many of your altcoins can you actually trade for goods and services without first converting to bitcoin or dollars? How many of the coins existing now will you still be able to trade in a year? Six months?

Non-backdoored TRNG would be pretty sexy.

So would mining chips.

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
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September 05, 2015, 05:18:40 PM
 #1810

I agree with you that most altcoins are simple forks of bitcoin that bring nothing new to the table, other than a new pump and dump. That being said, a few interesting and potentially useful altcoins come to mind (I'm sure you've heard of a few of them):

  • Namecoin (over four years old!), which provides censorship-resistant domain names.
  • Storj/Maidsafe, which provide distributed storage.
  • Monero, which has very nifty privacy features.

I think there's some utility with those alternatives--or its at least unfair to call all of them outright scams. Anyways, that's my two cents.

Always use escrow. OgNasty is pretty sweet.

Help me out with compiling a list of mining datacenters!
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September 05, 2015, 05:24:22 PM
 #1811

I don't know the other two, but I have nothing against Namecoin. We haven't used any yet but we've got some.

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September 05, 2015, 07:36:25 PM
Last edit: September 05, 2015, 07:55:01 PM by sloopy
 #1812

Yeah, you couldn't pay me to mine altcoins. It seems to be a zero-sum game driven by speculation and lucky timing. People funnel money into one coin until a few people have all the money, and then the coin evaporates and they funnel money into the next one until someone else has all the money. I'll stick to bitcoin. Its value may be heavily influenced by supply and speculation but at least it has utility. How many of your altcoins can you actually trade for goods and services without first converting to bitcoin or dollars? How many of the coins existing now will you still be able to trade in a year? Six months?

Non-backdoored TRNG would be pretty sexy.

So would mining chips.

I've been there. They saw me coming I think, except I pulled the plug every step of the way... on myself.
I do not want to completely derail your thread here, but you are right on about alts being pump n dumps. I am not saying they are scams, and you didn't either I noticed. There are good communities working on good things in that space.
(If I can use the second most used word in any coin community "space", with the most loved being "transparency")

Unfortunately, even the hardworking good communities who do not have Devs named Phantom' or some equivalent shit name even those good communities with real devs who didn't blanket copy the bitcoin code, use some drop in copy and paste from a couple of other coins, those communities have bad actors on a large scale romping through them. Pump teams, groups, and individuals, wave riders...  
Rule 1, if the Dev isn't willing to put their name and face on it there is a problem.  
and B Run from premines and ninja launches where the devs buddies, friends, relatives, and hometown all have the rented hash and even private mines ready to go the second they do the "fair" launch. It is obvious when that happens. Some reference they are friends in forum posts and other relationship status details, say a reference to an older activity they performed.
3. Plan your exit and then execute it without delay. By the time most people know a coin is moving, it started being moved well before we knew. In this case I will say I, but I learned I is we in most situations. Therefore starting at a disadvantage.

It is the same type of cut throat corporate crap sidehack talks about where people do not care about quality, many times it is the exact opposite by becoming a brag fest relative to how badly someone was screwed, well, fucked actually, that is what happens.

Most of the time. Almost all of the time, with almost every single coin. Some are short, quick, pickup a few coin situations, and some are the longer, repeat offender type.

As the Gentleman said though, there are some good situations. I do not know how namecoin will evolve, peercoin, but they have been consistent. I did trade all of my namecoin, but I would hold them if I had them again.

I'd say, either you have to know something for a fact is going to happen, he happy with very little profit with a high potential for loss, or have read enough, looked at enough blockchain history and put a few resources you weren't going to miss anyway in a few different situations after you have seriously spent time learning the groups and continuously evaluating long periods of past performance alongside current trends.

You have to know the scene as well, which is probably the hardest of all.
If the people are new, strike one against someone who could be a spectacular programmer.
If someone in the coin's core support team, or the Dev and they happen to post a different opinion on an important social issue, they are treated as if they have aids and are trying to tongue kiss every person in the city. They are treated like scum  and project validity is ignored because of usually something trivial.
I remember a couple of forums who had amazing techie group views. Mainly, if the topic is outside anything technically related, no one was interested. good techie forums where every class supported every class, not meaning financially, but to a degree yes, but more meaning Bitcoin versus another coin.

I think every one will agree there are coins which have features we would love to see in Bitcoin. We will not agree on exactly which features, but lets call out a couple of examples of common big sellers - anonymity and faster confirmations (I better not hear about the block size or someone is getting cut)
Anonymity and faster confirmations coming to Bitcoin are my big additions. I want it done as safely as anyone else would want. I want it to be accomplished without damaging bitcoin in any way and as a matter of fact when any entity in our "space" announces new "options" or "features" it is supposed to be done to add to a solid reputation of Research and Development.

Some of those coins exist, but they are very few. If anyone would like to discuss their experiences with alt coins feel free to PM me. I probably took it further off-topic than the bosses would like anyway, but I live in Bitcoinland, and it is my primary coin. I hope it always is and I will debate its merits against any current form of crypto-currency exchange, but I also know of other coins with features we want. For me it is about the technology and just to clarify, by technology I mean the whole enchilada of how the currency functions and utility it provides. Some coins are a natural product and accompany Bitcoin. Coins which could address things Bitcoin will be able to do but will not do for a long time. I think the biggest advantage for an Alternative coin is what we should name something different, like a sister coin, daughter would be more appropriate, but coins which support and encourage Bitcoin activity or satisfy a Bitcoin caveat. This is why merge mining makes sense to me. That is how we have the blockchain with a finite number of resource requirements but the ultimate, infinite blockchain.

There is / was talk that the coins which are merge mined will grow in more of a required role in the bitcoin landscape. (Landscape, 3rd most common word when discussing bitcoin next to space and transparent?)
Required by us, the bitcoiners, the community. We want more of our coin, there is obvious technology to provide whatever we want, and if an even bigger, maybe some better programmers step in a role of truly merge-eing utility from the coins riding the same hash then we get nicer things for a very small percent of market-share.

I am happy to see the topic of another coin broached by some I would have assumed if queried were more strict bitcoiners. I am happy to see there is maybe more open-mindedness. It takes real dedication and talent to do some things correctly and sometimes you can add an open mind with a dash of doing something because it feels right and good Then mix it all together for what is called the flow.

Everyone knows what that is. We all have flows. When you are executing a particular task and you 'hit your stride', the magic happens, get in a rythm. When this occurs for a creative person, they create, really create, and of course it depends on what you are doing with that flow. Unfortunately most of us do not reach that state enough or in the correct circumstances, physical or mental conditions, etc. Programming is a natural occupation for flow, as is troubleshooting, bowling, playing in a band, composing, writing in general, and you can have a team of people hit their flow. (Don't think about it)
When you get the right person in a flow and the only limit is their imagination there are amazing bursts of exciting ideas, or ways to improve existing items. Einstein is someone who executed it through daydreams and taking long walks.
Bitcoin has a pretty good selection of these ideas sitting on a shelf in the back room being pulled, poked, prodded and tested by the kids. Some of these have been tested for our two examples of Anonymity and faster confirmations.

We aren't talking an unheard of amount of money to incorporate existing ideas. Anonymity and faster confirmations are already being done, and not done because that is the fun part, but maintained and truly tested, there is your hard work. There have been countless people trying to break each other's anonymity ideas, and the same with coins that have faster confirmation. This applies with difficulty, and almost any other variable Bitcoin has, and a whole lot more it does not.

I think it would be a great idea for someone to evaluate if they have enough CPU use to mine alts. I wish it was profitable for me to mine alts as well. I suppose I can wish in one hand...

Good Luck on your ALT mining, and if you do step in make sure you stay away from anyone named Bob. Sorry to all of the other Bob's but it is better this way. Wink

Transaction fees go to the pools and the pools decide to pay them to the miners. Anything else, including off-chain solutions are stealing and not the way Bitcoin was intended to function.
Make the block size set by the pool. Pool = miners and they get the choice.
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September 05, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
 #1813

Minister Gorbachev, tear down this wall! (of text!)

Seriously though, I couldn't agree more. Even good (on paper) altcoins are damaged by bad actors.

Always use escrow. OgNasty is pretty sweet.

Help me out with compiling a list of mining datacenters!
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September 05, 2015, 07:53:03 PM
 #1814

Yeah, someone definitely called sloopy with the --verbose flag. That happens sometimes.

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September 05, 2015, 07:57:54 PM
 #1815


Yeah, sorry for the WoT guys  Lips sealed , I do get it all out at once normally, and then back to filing away the nuggets you all share Smiley

Transaction fees go to the pools and the pools decide to pay them to the miners. Anything else, including off-chain solutions are stealing and not the way Bitcoin was intended to function.
Make the block size set by the pool. Pool = miners and they get the choice.
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September 05, 2015, 08:13:02 PM
 #1816

I hear tell he's working on negotiating lower power rates.

 Saw that, think I might be misremembering but I thought he said he was in Kentucky?
 Might be thinking of the wrong person though.


 Namecoin is SHA256 and can be merge-mined, no point in mining it specifically. The concept is at least interesting.
 Monero is, from what little I've seen of it, worthless and in fact DOES appear to be somewhat scammy.
 Never even heard OF the other two.


 Cryptocoin does NOT need more altcoins, there are way too many already and most have ZERO long term lasting value.
 From what I'm seeing I doubt that more 4 cryptocoins will EVER achieve significant name recognition or long term value, and 3 of THOSE 4 are looking iffy.


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crackable with a brute force attack


Why does that make me think of Deep Crack - and the probability it could have it's performance matched by an array of GPU-based machines for under $10k today?



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September 05, 2015, 09:55:46 PM
 #1817

He's in Minnesota, and uses miners for industrial heating what, ten months out of the year?

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September 06, 2015, 12:50:37 AM
 #1818

MN isn't THAT much colder than where I'm at in IA, and has similar wind levels.
6-8 months perhaps if he's in the northern part, and some of that only part of the day.

Now I'm trying to figure out how his electric company generates the power cheap enough to SELL it at that rate.
Only thing I can think of in THAT area would be nuclear....

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September 06, 2015, 12:55:11 AM
 #1819

Yeah I was kidding. My last "vacation" was visiting some friends in Minnesota in about July 2013 and it was pretty darn toasty.

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September 06, 2015, 03:16:44 AM
 #1820


Yeah, sorry for the WoT guys  Lips sealed , I do get it all out at once normally, and then back to filing away the nuggets you all share Smiley
faster confirms yes i like that.  but the need for a fiat tradeable legit i pay my taxes coin is filled by BTC.

so i want it to be traceable.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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