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Author Topic: GekkoScience BM1384 Project Development Discussion  (Read 143310 times)
philipma1957
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August 23, 2015, 04:00:25 PM
 #1641

PlanetCrypto - what I meant by "beat us to the punch" is that the package and whatnot was probably already designed when we started talking about what we'd like to see, which means their designers had already come to the same conclusions which we voiced later.

If we assume Bitmain already has S7 on their shelves, we assume the chip was completed in the last several months. If we assume Bitmain paid attention to our considerations, it makes much more likely their not having any completed S7 because the chips weren't completed until much more recently.

I don't see why we shouldn't talk about BM1385 and someone else's chip, or our own chip. If you want to start your community dev discussion thread and have a center for conversing about it, this thread can be the center of discussion on the BM1385.

The data sheet doesn't actually disappoint me too much as a hardware guy. More than three reference points for a performance curve would be nice, but not necessary. Seeing the top-clock for the chip still gives a 10W output, and the 0.66V/7W is a midrange setting (which I was suspicious of) I'll have to rethink my layout again. A 20-chip board is probably still okay; at top clock it'll certainly run quite hot so I may cut that back down to 18 or even 16. 16-chip board at top clock would give us about 170W per board and 680W per machine, which is really pushing an S1 chassis pretty hard. I guess an S5 pushed to 425MHz has to clear 630W of heat.

An S1 outfitted with 16-chip boards would push 2.5TH at the top end (at about 700W if it didn't burst into flames) and clock down to 1.4TH at around 280W.

The Spec2 boards would probably run 24-chip, for a top-clock rating of 930GH at about 260W and bottom clock of 500GH at 100W. This would give an 8-board rack unit 7.3TH/2100W to 4TH/850W range.

If I wanted to push it to 30-chip we'd see 1.16TH at 325W and 625GH at 125W, for a machine-level range of 9.3TH/2550W to 5TH/1KW.

That's the estimated DC power consumption, so divide by PSU efficiency to get wall power.

I think it'd be safer for the Spec1 to go 16-chip instead of 20-chip. That reduces the potential long-term performance by 20% (in terms of hashrate, not efficiency) but reduces the initial cost (which could save $40 per 4-board kit just in chips) and retains a high top-clock hashrate with reduced potential to burn up your machine (versus someone trying to top-clock a 20-chip board and burning 850W on an S1 chassis). A 30-chip Spec2 is still very doable. The top-clock power draw is higher than I'd like to spec the per-board power draw for the machine (as seen in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158807.0) but not by much. Stock setting would probably be more like 275W with the opportunity to push them higher at your own risk made available.

I  say less is more when it comes to the s-1 form factor.

   If you can build an s-1 upgrade kit that does 1.4th at 280w  it will sell and sell and sell.
If you can build ans s-3 upgrade kit thats does  that same spec 1.4th at 280w  it would also sell and sell and sell

Here is why that much power 280 watts in that size frame can be made to run quietly.  I run s-3's at my friends office.

I add the silverstone 141 fan as a pull keep the stock fan as a push  run the gear at stock speeds using 330 watts.

My results are fairly  quiet gear.

Many home miners are sound restricted.  And I know the s-1 or s-3  are not loud with just a little modding and tiny down clock.

1.4th and 280 watts   to me means :

 my current 4x s-3 setup  goes from 1.8 th at  1450 watts  to 5.6th at 1120 watts


you can sell that big time!


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August 23, 2015, 04:25:12 PM
 #1642

There must still be loads of S1, S1/3 upgrades and S3, units sitting in lonely neglected corners, all waiting to be lovingly revived with nice shiny T/h capable boards.

Bitmain are unlikely to come back with anything suitable to replace them.

Bring on the BM1385 chip. It may be old tech 28nm cleaned up and repackaged, but it could still fill a gap for the home miners and see the community through to the block reward halving due next spring.


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philipma1957
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August 23, 2015, 04:34:22 PM
 #1643

There must still be loads of S1, S1/3 upgrades and S3, units sitting in lonely neglected corners, all waiting to be lovingly revived with nice shiny T/h capable boards.

Bitmain are unlikely to come back with anything suitable to replace them.

Bring on the BM1385 chip. It may be old tech 28nm cleaned up and repackaged, but it could still fill a gap for the home miners and see the community through to the block reward halving due next spring.


  I am in complete agreement with you with 1 exception we are scheduled to ½ in late July  not  spring.

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August 23, 2015, 04:42:44 PM
 #1644

If by "old tech" you mean it has top-clock performance on par with the best bottom-clock performance from any chip ever openly sold, then yeah it's old tech.

The only problem I can forsee with upgrading S3 is controller. The boards would USB-tether to any generic control board (if you had 4 ports like on a Pi B+ you wouldn't even need a hub) but the S3 and S5 chassis ends are cut out for a specific shape what with the ethernet and LEDs. Might take a bit of jerryrigging to keep ethernet accessible and still be able to put the box on an S3. If you're not uncomfortable with whatever rigging is required (and of course we can test stuff out and try to figure out relatively standard solutions to that problem) there'd be no problem.

The halving is based on block count. Every time the diff goes up the halving gets that much closer. It'd take about 20% average changes to push it up into late spring but it could happen. That'd be freakin' terrible if we had 20% increases every change for the next nine months though.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
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August 23, 2015, 04:47:35 PM
 #1645

There must still be loads of S1, S1/3 upgrades and S3, units sitting in lonely neglected corners, all waiting to be lovingly revived with nice shiny T/h capable boards.

Bitmain are unlikely to come back with anything suitable to replace them.

Bring on the BM1385 chip. It may be old tech 28nm cleaned up and repackaged, but it could still fill a gap for the home miners and see the community through to the block reward halving due next spring.



Personally, I think that boards themselves would have somewhat limited appeal (only to enthusiasts and people with good technical skills).
I am not saying that they would not be sold in hundreds and up to a thou, but maybe not many thousands.
Additionally, which software would these boards run on? The underlying controller ones-might be incompatible, although probably a solvable problem.
A new "community" miner, like is described on another thread would have a much bigger market .
Just my 2satoshis.
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August 23, 2015, 05:10:12 PM
 #1646

I've got a dozen machines to strap boards onto, so that's about fifty boards right there. Being half-sized for an S1 heatsink, someone could rig up a half-heatsink and mount a 120mm fan directly to it and use the thing as a standalone quiet little miner. If the upgrade process was not difficult, and you know shipping will certainly be cheaper. One thousand boards is still well worth making and get a pretty good bulk price on PCBs and parts, which keeps the price nicely down for the end purchaser.

The boards would run on anything with USB and cgminer. If S3/S5 controllers have USB in hardware but not the jacks, it might not be too difficult to break it out but that's not a problem I've researched at all.

What community miner are you talking about? The rack-scale miner Novak and I are proposing? That meets the large-scale market sector but not folks like Phil who want something small and quiet but also not stupid. Is there an open-source S1-scale miner being talked about and I've overlooked it? Though, thinking about it... it might not be too hard to build an SP20-similar miner from two or three boards of the big'n with a single rear fan. Two boards should fit nicely cooled with a 120mm and run off a 750W PSU.

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Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
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August 23, 2015, 07:09:01 PM
 #1647

If by "old tech" you mean it has top-clock performance on par with the best bottom-clock performance from any chip ever openly sold, then yeah it's old tech.

The only problem I can forsee with upgrading S3 is controller. The boards would USB-tether to any generic control board (if you had 4 ports like on a Pi B+ you wouldn't even need a hub) but the S3 and S5 chassis ends are cut out for a specific shape what with the ethernet and LEDs. Might take a bit of jerryrigging to keep ethernet accessible and still be able to put the box on an S3. If you're not uncomfortable with whatever rigging is required (and of course we can test stuff out and try to figure out relatively standard solutions to that problem) there'd be no problem.

The halving is based on block count. Every time the diff goes up the halving gets that much closer. It'd take about 20% average changes to push it up into late spring but it could happen. That'd be freakin' terrible if we had 20% increases every change for the next nine months though.

Easiest way, just slot from the top chassis down to the ethernet hole, make a big "U" for cables to run through, and mount the Pi to the top of the cover or where ever wanted.

Pi is accessible and a side benefit is it's not inside of a hot miner.
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August 23, 2015, 07:15:21 PM
 #1648

There must still be loads of S1, S1/3 upgrades and S3, units sitting in lonely neglected corners, all waiting to be lovingly revived with nice shiny T/h capable boards.

Bitmain are unlikely to come back with anything suitable to replace them.

Bring on the BM1385 chip. It may be old tech 28nm cleaned up and repackaged, but it could still fill a gap for the home miners and see the community through to the block reward halving due next spring.



Edit accepted:- Later next Summer.

If the easiest route is USB, then I would accept that a Pi B+ could be used to replace the S1 or S3 controller, after all the S5 already mounts a BBB and they are similar in size.

The S1 and S1/S3  models could still be used for the heatsincs, chasis and fans. (the big bits that are expensive to ship)

The next bigger option is to revive some 10 port Orico hubs, left over from Asic Erupter days. Then hook up to one of my mini PC's surviving from the same farm. (also I still have 3 working Pi B's).

If BFgMiner or CgMiner support was also available, Then it's all Plug and Play.

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August 23, 2015, 07:20:38 PM
 #1649

The intent is to have cgminer support; BFG is out of our hands. A lot of my refit machines would probably be hub'd together for more than 4 boards to a controller. I'm not sure how possible it'll be but we're going to try and come up with a way to adjust voltages and clocks per board so you could actually tune on a per-board basis if you wanted.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
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philipma1957
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August 23, 2015, 07:50:41 PM
 #1650

I've got a dozen machines to strap boards onto, so that's about fifty boards right there. Being half-sized for an S1 heatsink, someone could rig up a half-heatsink and mount a 120mm fan directly to it and use the thing as a standalone quiet little miner. If the upgrade process was not difficult, and you know shipping will certainly be cheaper. One thousand boards is still well worth making and get a pretty good bulk price on PCBs and parts, which keeps the price nicely down for the end purchaser.

The boards would run on anything with USB and cgminer. If S3/S5 controllers have USB in hardware but not the jacks, it might not be too difficult to break it out but that's not a problem I've researched at all.

What community miner are you talking about? The rack-scale miner Novak and I are proposing? That meets the large-scale market sector but not folks like Phil who want something small and quiet but also not stupid. Is there an open-source S1-scale miner being talked about and I've overlooked it? Though, thinking about it... it might not be too hard to build an SP20-similar miner from two or three boards of the big'n with a single rear fan. Two boards should fit nicely cooled with a 120mm and run off a 750W PSU.


I know of at least 40+ sales of a miner that allows for   1.4th and 280watts.   There is a forum member less then 3 miles from me that would want 20 s-1 to sidehack upgrades.

I have 4 working s-3's I would upgrade.

I have a guy with a shop n the brooklyn navy yard 8 cent power.  he has 1x 30 amp 240 volt circuit waiting for good gear.

good gear in his case is quiet quiet quiet/ then power efficient.

So I am good for  20 + 5 + 15 pieces or  56th of hash.

with none of that in my home   and a few more for in house

lets  say 60 th  43 x 1.4th units of gear


Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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August 23, 2015, 08:07:43 PM
 #1651

I have 6 s1/s3 upgrades that are now looking for new boards.

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August 23, 2015, 10:18:10 PM
 #1652

I have 10 S1/S3 that I'd be interested in upgrading.
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August 24, 2015, 01:32:21 AM
 #1653

Any plans for something when the BM1385 chip is released?
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August 24, 2015, 04:26:56 AM
 #1654

Nope, none at all. Except for everything talked about in the last three pages, I mean. Which includes a few paragraphs of quantitative discussion posted not 13 hours ago.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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August 25, 2015, 03:16:40 PM
 #1655

I've got 10 S1's, 12 S3's, 22 C1's and they all need to be upgraded.
Hint hint.

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August 25, 2015, 03:36:02 PM
 #1656

I've got 10 S1's, 12 S3's, 22 C1's and they all need to be upgraded.
Hint hint.

Am I missing the hint?  Are you hinting on product coming out?
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August 25, 2015, 03:42:31 PM
 #1657

I think it's more a hint to me that I need to get off my butt and build him some boards because he's gonna want a bunch of 'em.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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August 25, 2015, 04:36:54 PM
 #1658

I think it's more a hint to me that I need to get off my butt and build him some boards because he's gonna want a bunch of 'em.

I got about half a dozen too. Hint hint. Those S1 are just craving for an upgrade. They REALLY want it. ;P

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August 25, 2015, 06:45:59 PM
 #1659

I think it's more a hint to me that I need to get off my butt and build him some boards because he's gonna want a bunch of 'em.

No pressure as you really can't do squat (almost literally  Grin) until "the one who shall remain nameless" gets off their respective bums and sells chips.

Have a really good handle on what it's like to be a mushroom (kept in the dark and feed crap).

What a name for a company, Mushroom Development, LLC.  Shocked


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August 25, 2015, 06:49:57 PM
 #1660

I really want those boards tooooo!!! I don't want to fead a big corporation if i can assist some guys doing their homework and earn a living with that tech!!!
The only thing i need to know, is what hardware i should keep from the old S1 and S3 to compile with the new boards?
The case, the fans, the controller boards...
I read that Novak is doing the controller boards with USB connection to the asicboards, so are you guys also working/producing the controller boards?
If so, i'll sell all my old S1 and S3 and build me a custom FormFactorCasing and attach some fans to it  Grin
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