GekkoScience BM1384 Project Development Discussion

[philipma1957]

<snip>

600mV	GH	Iin	Pin	W/GH
100MHz	5.5	372	1860	0.34
125MHz	6.88	448	2240	0.33
150MHz	8.25	511	2555	0.31
625mV
100MHz	5.5	390	1950	0.35
125MHz	6.88	464	2320	0.34
150MHz	8.25	544	2720	0.33
175MHz	9.63	620	3100	0.32
200MHz	11	704	3520	0.32
650mV
100MHz	5.5	410	2050	0.37
125MHz	6.88	495	2475	0.36
150MHz	8.25	575	2875	0.35
175MHz	9.63	660	3300	0.34
200MHz	11	760	3800	0.35
225MHz	12.38	850	4250	0.34
250MHz	13.75	945	4725	0.34
675mV
100MHz	5.5	440	2200	0.4
125MHz	6.88	530	2650	0.39
150MHz	8.25	610	3050	0.37
175MHz	9.63	715	3575	0.37
200MHz	11	810	4050	0.37
225MHz	12.38	915	4575	0.37
250MHz	13.75	1020	5100	0.37

 <snip>
these are really fucking good numbers.  <snip>

Haha, I love your display of enthusiasm!! It's not often I see you using such language

0.31 watts  a ch deserves the f bomb.   I can see the future of home mining as a large amount of lotto players.

a set of 3 sticks = 60 bucks.  16 gh mining at westhash kano nicehash  and 8gh at a solo pool.

that setup will allow for a free shot at a block for over a years time.  (rough in my head estimate)

actual estimate is after 465 days  you paid for all your power and you paid the sticks down to 56 dollars.

plus you had a 465 day shot at the solo pool with 8gh.  and you still possess the 3 sticks.  Most all the years of usb sticks they were not that good of a deal.

[sidehack]

I stand by what I said. I just finished going over the PCB design and found a few corrections. Novak might take a look at it this afternoon. I expect by 4PM or so we've placed an order for prototype PCBs. The last batch arrived in a little over a week. So that gives us half a week to assemble and test a handful of boards. In that time I also need to get some heatsinks shipped in but that shouldn't be difficult.

We're already behind on my estimated timeline, mostly because of jacking with that effin' regulator. If I'd done it "right" (and by "right" I mean avoid complex monolithic options and go with modular reduced complexity, which is our general design preference) I'd probably already have protoPCBs in hand.

I won't make any estimate about TypeZero or Amita boards. My task this afternoon will be to conjure up a better BM1384 breakout with integrated parallel and string chips so we can get them in the same proto batch. Next week the focus will be on TypeZero regulator design (about half of which is already done) and testing. I'll probably have a second Compac regulator test board I can refit for Amita voltage levels. If that works, and the string test board works, I'll start modifying Compac PCB to Amita PCB.

For any reference of design steps so far, the first Compac board design was V0.0 and the current is V0.3, so it's undergone three major revisions of circuitry and physical layout. Shouldn't have taken that many changes to get something right. I'm annoyed by this.

Right now I'm planning on sending test Compacs to philipma1957, CrazyGuy and MrTeal (if they'd be willing to help out, and also get me their addresses). I respect their knowledge and opinions regarding market demands, customer use-cases and overall engineering quality.

[quakefiend420]

I stand by what I said. I just finished going over the PCB design and found a few corrections. Novak might take a look at it this afternoon. I expect by 4PM or so we've placed an order for prototype PCBs. The last batch arrived in a little over a week. So that gives us half a week to assemble and test a handful of boards. In that time I also need to get some heatsinks shipped in but that shouldn't be difficult.

We're already behind on my estimated timeline, mostly because of jacking with that effin' regulator. If I'd done it "right" (and by "right" I mean avoid complex monolithic options and go with modular reduced complexity, which is our general design preference) I'd probably already have protoPCBs in hand.

I won't make any estimate about TypeZero or Amita boards. My task this afternoon will be to conjure up a better BM1384 breakout with integrated parallel and string chips so we can get them in the same proto batch. Next week the focus will be on TypeZero regulator design (about half of which is already done) and testing. I'll probably have a second Compac regulator test board I can refit for Amita voltage levels. If that works, and the string test board works, I'll start modifying Compac PCB to Amita PCB.

For any reference of design steps so far, the first Compac board design was V0.0 and the current is V0.3, so it's undergone three major revisions of circuitry and physical layout. Shouldn't have taken that many changes to get something right. I'm annoyed by this.

Right now I'm planning on sending test Compacs to philipma1957, CrazyGuy and MrTeal (if they'd be willing to help out, and also get me their addresses). I respect their knowledge and opinions regarding market demands, customer use-cases and overall engineering quality.

This is great news!  So cool to see a miner being developed transparently and with noble intentions.  Seriously man, the community needs more people like you and Novak.  Respect.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what you can do with the TypeZero next, I'll almost certainly be picking some up from you.

Off topic - going to ping you on some more of that ring terminal cabling that I got from you a couple months ago too, a lot of it!

[philipma1957]

I stand by what I said. I just finished going over the PCB design and found a few corrections. Novak might take a look at it this afternoon. I expect by 4PM or so we've placed an order for prototype PCBs. The last batch arrived in a little over a week. So that gives us half a week to assemble and test a handful of boards. In that time I also need to get some heatsinks shipped in but that shouldn't be difficult.

We're already behind on my estimated timeline, mostly because of jacking with that effin' regulator. If I'd done it "right" (and by "right" I mean avoid complex monolithic options and go with modular reduced complexity, which is our general design preference) I'd probably already have protoPCBs in hand.

I won't make any estimate about TypeZero or Amita boards. My task this afternoon will be to conjure up a better BM1384 breakout with integrated parallel and string chips so we can get them in the same proto batch. Next week the focus will be on TypeZero regulator design (about half of which is already done) and testing. I'll probably have a second Compac regulator test board I can refit for Amita voltage levels. If that works, and the string test board works, I'll start modifying Compac PCB to Amita PCB.

For any reference of design steps so far, the first Compac board design was V0.0 and the current is V0.3, so it's undergone three major revisions of circuitry and physical layout. Shouldn't have taken that many changes to get something right. I'm annoyed by this.

Right now I'm planning on sending test Compacs to philipma1957, CrazyGuy and MrTeal (if they'd be willing to help out, and also get me their addresses). I respect their knowledge and opinions regarding market demands, customer use-cases and overall engineering quality.

 I will send you a pm with mailing info.

  Pm sent.

 As for marketing pushing the most efficient miner at watt per gh is big.

3 watts for 9gh  in a usb stick huge. A good lotto ticket so to speak.

the real key is .31-.35 watts a gh at decent prices.

More obvious is how much hashrate.

8-11gh 1 chip stick for 20 bucks that is super efficient will sell.

but what does the 16-20gh 2 chip stick sell for?  it won't do well at 40 bucks.

same for they bigger s-1 replacement board.  scaling to 2th what does it sell for?

Obvious sidehack and novak need a markup . will there be middlemen ?

ie 100 sticks to me I sell on ebay like the old days----not sure how effective this would be

all the little details to hammer out on marketing.

[Meech]

The usb sticks did extremely well on Ebay and any markup should be there to cover fees.  But first runs should be sold here just in case of any complications with them.  Do these need a CE certification if you sell large quantities, especially overseas?  I realize that may not be in the budget.

[chiguireitor]

Hey sidehack, if you want me to test one of those boards on a tropical setting, send it over with the psu i just bought I would gladly test it, and i could even setup remote access for you to test it out on my setting (temps ~27ºc year long). 

[CrazyGuy]

...

600mV	GH	Iin	Pin	W/GH
100MHz	5.5	372	1860	0.34
125MHz	6.88	448	2240	0.33
150MHz	8.25	511	2555	0.31
625mV
100MHz	5.5	390	1950	0.35
125MHz	6.88	464	2320	0.34
150MHz	8.25	544	2720	0.33
175MHz	9.63	620	3100	0.32
200MHz	11	704	3520	0.32
650mV
100MHz	5.5	410	2050	0.37
125MHz	6.88	495	2475	0.36
150MHz	8.25	575	2875	0.35
175MHz	9.63	660	3300	0.34
200MHz	11	760	3800	0.35
225MHz	12.38	850	4250	0.34
250MHz	13.75	945	4725	0.34
675mV
100MHz	5.5	440	2200	0.4
125MHz	6.88	530	2650	0.39
150MHz	8.25	610	3050	0.37
175MHz	9.63	715	3575	0.37
200MHz	11	810	4050	0.37
225MHz	12.38	915	4575	0.37
250MHz	13.75	1020	5100	0.37

Those are some good looking specs! Can't wait to see the final product.

[sidehack]

Compac PCB prototypes were ordered today, only about 1.5 hours behind schedule but a fair amount of that was because I spent the extra time designing a new BM1384 breakout board on which I can more effectively test parallel and string configurations. This coming week I'll be working on beefy regulator design which will end up going on the TypeZero (and probably other things that are way behind schedule), and once the new boards come in and Compacs are tested, I'll start Amita testing with the new breakout board. Hopefully there's no trouble and I can get the Amita design completed soon.

There will be no bulk discounts for the Compac. The price is the price. If you want to middleman and resell on eBay, I reckon that's fine but your inventory cost will be the same as anyone else's. I need to go back over pricing with the new design and get a bead on the actual costs so I can reevaluate the sale price, but hopefully $20 is still within reason. The Amita will have the same regulator as the Compac (I need only change two parts, I think, to get the higher voltage range out of it for a two-chip string), and then a second chip, second heatsink, 40mm more PCB and probably another dollar in support components so if the Compac sells for $20 hopefully the Amita can sell for $30.

So, question. Assuming we can get, say, 1000 chips from Bitmain, how do we want to divide them up? We could do 600x Compac and 200x Amita, or 700x Compac and 150x Amita, or something like that. Where's demand? How should we apportion things? Additionally, if Compacs cost approaching $20 to make, making 600 of them means about a $12K investment to run out the full batch. How much of this should we try to out-of-pocket, and how much should we try to gather - and by what means - before ordering materials for the batch? So basically, should we attempt a pre-order to pay for parts and get everything done in one go, or should we build as resources allow and only sell in-hand miners (at reduced and somewhat drawn-out quantities)?

Not one satoshi will be requested until after prototypes of the final design are dispersed and thoroughly tested by trusted members of the community. Do not trust anyone claiming to represent me if he acts in contradiction to this policy.

[notlist3d]

Very nice progress.  I would be interested in testing one if at all possible.

[quakefiend420]

Compac PCB prototypes were ordered today, only about 1.5 hours behind schedule but a fair amount of that was because I spent the extra time designing a new BM1384 breakout board on which I can more effectively test parallel and string configurations. This coming week I'll be working on beefy regulator design which will end up going on the TypeZero (and probably other things that are way behind schedule), and once the new boards come in and Compacs are tested, I'll start Amita testing with the new breakout board. Hopefully there's no trouble and I can get the Amita design completed soon.

There will be no bulk discounts for the Compac. The price is the price. If you want to middleman and resell on eBay, I reckon that's fine but your inventory cost will be the same as anyone else's. I need to go back over pricing with the new design and get a bead on the actual costs so I can reevaluate the sale price, but hopefully $20 is still within reason. The Amita will have the same regulator as the Compac (I need only change two parts, I think, to get the higher voltage range out of it for a two-chip string), and then a second chip, second heatsink, 40mm more PCB and probably another dollar in support components so if the Compac sells for $20 hopefully the Amita can sell for $30.

So, question. Assuming we can get, say, 1000 chips from Bitmain, how do we want to divide them up? We could do 600x Compac and 200x Amita, or 700x Compac and 150x Amita, or something like that. Where's demand? How should we apportion things? Additionally, if Compacs cost approaching $20 to make, making 600 of them means about a $12K investment to run out the full batch. How much of this should we try to out-of-pocket, and how much should we try to gather - and by what means - before ordering materials for the batch? So basically, should we attempt a pre-order to pay for parts and get everything done in one go, or should we build as resources allow and only sell in-hand miners (at reduced and somewhat drawn-out quantities)?

Not one satoshi will be requested until after prototypes of the final design are dispersed and thoroughly tested by trusted members of the community. Do not trust anyone claiming to represent me if he acts in contradiction to this policy.

My opinion is that a preorder isn't a bad thing if done in reasonable quantities and in a transparent manner.

I'd buy a few of the USB miners for funsises, but I'm really waiting for the TypeZero.  I have a fever and the only cure is more cowbell!  Err..hashrate.

EDIT: Sent you a PM on the cables, btw.

[ezeminer]

Compac PCB prototypes were ordered today, only about 1.5 hours behind schedule but a fair amount of that was because I spent the extra time designing a new BM1384 breakout board on which I can more effectively test parallel and string configurations. This coming week I'll be working on beefy regulator design which will end up going on the TypeZero (and probably other things that are way behind schedule), and once the new boards come in and Compacs are tested, I'll start Amita testing with the new breakout board. Hopefully there's no trouble and I can get the Amita design completed soon.

There will be no bulk discounts for the Compac. The price is the price. If you want to middleman and resell on eBay, I reckon that's fine but your inventory cost will be the same as anyone else's. I need to go back over pricing with the new design and get a bead on the actual costs so I can reevaluate the sale price, but hopefully $20 is still within reason. The Amita will have the same regulator as the Compac (I need only change two parts, I think, to get the higher voltage range out of it for a two-chip string), and then a second chip, second heatsink, 40mm more PCB and probably another dollar in support components so if the Compac sells for $20 hopefully the Amita can sell for $30.

So, question. Assuming we can get, say, 1000 chips from Bitmain, how do we want to divide them up? We could do 600x Compac and 200x Amita, or 700x Compac and 150x Amita, or something like that. Where's demand? How should we apportion things? Additionally, if Compacs cost approaching $20 to make, making 600 of them means about a $12K investment to run out the full batch. How much of this should we try to out-of-pocket, and how much should we try to gather - and by what means - before ordering materials for the batch? So basically, should we attempt a pre-order to pay for parts and get everything done in one go, or should we build as resources allow and only sell in-hand miners (at reduced and somewhat drawn-out quantities)?

Not one satoshi will be requested until after prototypes of the final design are dispersed and thoroughly tested by trusted members of the community. Do not trust anyone claiming to represent me if he acts in contradiction to this policy.

My opinion is that a preorder isn't a bad thing if done in reasonable quantities and in a transparent manner.

I'd buy a few of the USB miners for funsises, but I'm really waiting for the TypeZero.  I have a fever and the only cure is more cowbell!  Err..hashrate.

EDIT: Sent you a PM on the cables, btw.

You almost sound like one of my teachers.... Needs more cowbell!

Got an assignment? Needs more cowbell!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCd0OjjCz88

On another note some type zero heaters, err miners for after summer might be awesome.

[ManeBjorn]

I am ready to test when you need.
This project has made me happy. It is nice to see things going on other than just big companies.

Compac PCB prototypes were ordered today, only about 1.5 hours behind schedule but a fair amount of that was because I spent the extra time designing a new BM1384 breakout board on which I can more effectively test parallel and string configurations. This coming week I'll be working on beefy regulator design which will end up going on the TypeZero (and probably other things that are way behind schedule), and once the new boards come in and Compacs are tested, I'll start Amita testing with the new breakout board. Hopefully there's no trouble and I can get the Amita design completed soon.

There will be no bulk discounts for the Compac. The price is the price. If you want to middleman and resell on eBay, I reckon that's fine but your inventory cost will be the same as anyone else's. I need to go back over pricing with the new design and get a bead on the actual costs so I can reevaluate the sale price, but hopefully $20 is still within reason. The Amita will have the same regulator as the Compac (I need only change two parts, I think, to get the higher voltage range out of it for a two-chip string), and then a second chip, second heatsink, 40mm more PCB and probably another dollar in support components so if the Compac sells for $20 hopefully the Amita can sell for $30.

So, question. Assuming we can get, say, 1000 chips from Bitmain, how do we want to divide them up? We could do 600x Compac and 200x Amita, or 700x Compac and 150x Amita, or something like that. Where's demand? How should we apportion things? Additionally, if Compacs cost approaching $20 to make, making 600 of them means about a $12K investment to run out the full batch. How much of this should we try to out-of-pocket, and how much should we try to gather - and by what means - before ordering materials for the batch? So basically, should we attempt a pre-order to pay for parts and get everything done in one go, or should we build as resources allow and only sell in-hand miners (at reduced and somewhat drawn-out quantities)?

Not one satoshi will be requested until after prototypes of the final design are dispersed and thoroughly tested by trusted members of the community. Do not trust anyone claiming to represent me if he acts in contradiction to this policy.

[philipma1957]

Compac PCB prototypes were ordered today, only about 1.5 hours behind schedule but a fair amount of that was because I spent the extra time designing a new BM1384 breakout board on which I can more effectively test parallel and string configurations. This coming week I'll be working on beefy regulator design which will end up going on the TypeZero (and probably other things that are way behind schedule), and once the new boards come in and Compacs are tested, I'll start Amita testing with the new breakout board. Hopefully there's no trouble and I can get the Amita design completed soon.

There will be no bulk discounts for the Compac. The price is the price. If you want to middleman and resell on eBay, I reckon that's fine but your inventory cost will be the same as anyone else's.
I need to go back over pricing with the new design and get a bead on the actual costs so I can reevaluate the sale price, but hopefully $20 is still within reason. The Amita will have the same regulator as the Compac (I need only change two parts, I think, to get the higher voltage range out of it for a two-chip string), and then a second chip, second heatsink, 40mm more PCB and probably another dollar in support components so if the Compac sells for $20 hopefully the Amita can sell for $30.

So, question. Assuming we can get, say, 1000 chips from Bitmain, how do we want to divide them up? We could do 600x Compac and 200x Amita, or 700x Compac and 150x Amita, or something like that. Where's demand? How should we apportion things? Additionally, if Compacs cost approaching $20 to make, making 600 of them means about a $12K investment to run out the full batch. How much of this should we try to out-of-pocket, and how much should we try to gather - and by what means - before ordering materials for the batch? So basically, should we attempt a pre-order to pay for parts and get everything done in one go, or should we build as resources allow and only sell in-hand miners (at reduced and somewhat drawn-out quantities)?

Not one satoshi will be requested until after prototypes of the final design are dispersed and thoroughly tested by trusted members of the community. Do not trust anyone claiming to represent me if he acts in contradiction to this policy.

I like that which I bolded as the industry has changed a lot since that was popular way to sell them.

As for Distrubution. 600-200 or 700-150 good question    some  points:

A) have you made a good model and tested the Amita as well as the Compac
B)  what is your profit on each?
C) the amita will use only hi-end hubs such as the one below  which can supply .9 amps without the bridge and 1.8 amps with the bridge.

[Meech]

Compac PCB prototypes were ordered today, only about 1.5 hours behind schedule but a fair amount of that was because I spent the extra time designing a new BM1384 breakout board on which I can more effectively test parallel and string configurations. This coming week I'll be working on beefy regulator design which will end up going on the TypeZero (and probably other things that are way behind schedule), and once the new boards come in and Compacs are tested, I'll start Amita testing with the new breakout board. Hopefully there's no trouble and I can get the Amita design completed soon.

There will be no bulk discounts for the Compac. The price is the price. If you want to middleman and resell on eBay, I reckon that's fine but your inventory cost will be the same as anyone else's. I need to go back over pricing with the new design and get a bead on the actual costs so I can reevaluate the sale price, but hopefully $20 is still within reason. The Amita will have the same regulator as the Compac (I need only change two parts, I think, to get the higher voltage range out of it for a two-chip string), and then a second chip, second heatsink, 40mm more PCB and probably another dollar in support components so if the Compac sells for $20 hopefully the Amita can sell for $30.

So, question. Assuming we can get, say, 1000 chips from Bitmain, how do we want to divide them up? We could do 600x Compac and 200x Amita, or 700x Compac and 150x Amita, or something like that. Where's demand? How should we apportion things? Additionally, if Compacs cost approaching $20 to make, making 600 of them means about a $12K investment to run out the full batch. How much of this should we try to out-of-pocket, and how much should we try to gather - and by what means - before ordering materials for the batch? So basically, should we attempt a pre-order to pay for parts and get everything done in one go, or should we build as resources allow and only sell in-hand miners (at reduced and somewhat drawn-out quantities)?

Not one satoshi will be requested until after prototypes of the final design are dispersed and thoroughly tested by trusted members of the community. Do not trust anyone claiming to represent me if he acts in contradiction to this policy.

My opinion is that a preorder isn't a bad thing if done in reasonable quantities and in a transparent manner.

I'd buy a few of the USB miners for funsises, but I'm really waiting for the TypeZero.  I have a fever and the only cure is more cowbell!  Err..hashrate.

EDIT: Sent you a PM on the cables, btw.

I second that.  In this situation it would be a welcomed preorder.  I'm sure if you take investment funds then everyone would want a share.

[ezeminer]

Compac PCB prototypes were ordered today, only about 1.5 hours behind schedule but a fair amount of that was because I spent the extra time designing a new BM1384 breakout board on which I can more effectively test parallel and string configurations. This coming week I'll be working on beefy regulator design which will end up going on the TypeZero (and probably other things that are way behind schedule), and once the new boards come in and Compacs are tested, I'll start Amita testing with the new breakout board. Hopefully there's no trouble and I can get the Amita design completed soon.

There will be no bulk discounts for the Compac. The price is the price. If you want to middleman and resell on eBay, I reckon that's fine but your inventory cost will be the same as anyone else's. I need to go back over pricing with the new design and get a bead on the actual costs so I can reevaluate the sale price, but hopefully $20 is still within reason. The Amita will have the same regulator as the Compac (I need only change two parts, I think, to get the higher voltage range out of it for a two-chip string), and then a second chip, second heatsink, 40mm more PCB and probably another dollar in support components so if the Compac sells for $20 hopefully the Amita can sell for $30.

So, question. Assuming we can get, say, 1000 chips from Bitmain, how do we want to divide them up? We could do 600x Compac and 200x Amita, or 700x Compac and 150x Amita, or something like that. Where's demand? How should we apportion things? Additionally, if Compacs cost approaching $20 to make, making 600 of them means about a $12K investment to run out the full batch. How much of this should we try to out-of-pocket, and how much should we try to gather - and by what means - before ordering materials for the batch? So basically, should we attempt a pre-order to pay for parts and get everything done in one go, or should we build as resources allow and only sell in-hand miners (at reduced and somewhat drawn-out quantities)?

Not one satoshi will be requested until after prototypes of the final design are dispersed and thoroughly tested by trusted members of the community. Do not trust anyone claiming to represent me if he acts in contradiction to this policy.

My opinion is that a preorder isn't a bad thing if done in reasonable quantities and in a transparent manner.

I'd buy a few of the USB miners for funsises, but I'm really waiting for the TypeZero.  I have a fever and the only cure is more cowbell!  Err..hashrate.

EDIT: Sent you a PM on the cables, btw.

I second that.  In this situation it would be a welcomed preorder.  I'm sure if you take investment funds then everyone would want a share.

I wouldn't mind preordering. Only because you guys actually have numbers and designs that have worked.

It wouldn't be too much of a risk to the community because it is $12k, rather than BFL numbers that were bigger...

[sidehack]

Yeah, they were taking more than that much from individuals, more than a few. A Compac preorder I'm not too worried about, but a TypeZero path would probably be an order of magnitude larger so any steps taken now need to be evaluated based on future steps as well.

I should probably get back on the paper trail with Bitmain about chips. If we can't get chips from them fairly readily, nothing else matters.

[hurricandave]

This thread has reached 28 pages already and the vast majority of comments have come from Sr. Members, Hero Members and Legendary Members. The very people who Fully understand the risks and have experiences to reflect upon. 12k is by No means trivial, but with a few comments from the right chip supplier accounts and protoboards in the hands of trusted members for review. I think 12k barrier would be smashed pretty quickly in a (Go)-fundme/kickstarter like campaign within this thread. You have reserved slots on page one to run/list an abbreviated ledger.

[chiguireitor]

I also don't mind handing money to this guy The cheeseburger fund must be replenished weekly!

[eretron]

Same here, preorder is more then acceptable for the amount of progress and development Novak and you showed.

Its been a pleasure following this thread since first post.

So if you consider preorder. Count me in.

[Driveon]

I think preorder is probably the best way to go to predict what will sell.  It should help speed production and limit inventory.

I will take two of the one and the two chip design.   Can't wait to see what the boards will be like.