Bitcoin Forum

From:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=let_the_machines_do_the_work

Fully Unemployed Society


This has been a dream of man since the dawn of civilization. Even the Egyptians had slaves to do their work, so that they could live more comfortable lives. They even considered their Egyptian language (or Ma'at) to be magical, because not only could it put their mindscape into reality, it could get things done through orders and chain of command.





Slavery


Slavery was the first attempt to “let the machines do the work”, but slaves are PEOPLE, so that doesn't work. I even believe that animals should be liberated and humans should be taught to communicate through body language with animals. Slavery seemed to work for a long time, because social systems allowed it to. Just as society allows industrial slavery today





Industrialization


Industry changed everything, a machine could do the work of 1,000 men. But it started even before that. Feudalism, and cottage industry. There are still examples of this today, but it has mostly died out except among middle class Americans. Cottage industry is where a town agrees to make something for a company, say mittens. So they knit mittens, and at the end of the month the company comes by, buys all the mittens, then sells them for more somewhere else. That is cottage industry. Feudalism is where 1 man owns a piece of land and allows others to live on his land for a price. In the past people would do this in an attempt to make money for themselves (usually floundering under the taxes of a king or government), but now people seem satisfied to do it for no profit, and example being: Home Owners Associations

When machines started being built though, even cottage industry and feudalism were wiped out. Whoever owned the land could demolish the cottages or farms, build one giant factory or plantation, and pay one 'industrial slave' (and usually his family) to run the machines, and earn the money. So textile mills, companies like Dole, steel mills, railroads and everything popped up.

But this was still not a means to “let the machines do the work”, even though it was an attempt. There are still people in the middle struggling for income. It even got so bad they had “industry towns”, which were just over crowded ghettos where the employers forced their employees to live. They got paid money that could only be spent at shops on company property, and most of their checks went straight back to their employers for rent. We haven't gotten very far away from that, and that was less than 200 years ago.





Slave to the Dollar


Now we aren't forced to live in industry towns, and work in steel mills. But the average Wal Mart emplpoyee still qualifies for welfare, and we don't blame Wal Mart for the excess of welfare recipients. And, most people don't like their jobs and would rather not work them, but they don't leave because of the almighty dollar

In the 1960s groups like YIP or the Youth International Party supported the idea of a fully unemployed society.





The Solution


Mining.

Mine COINS. Let the machines do the work. True, you have to get funding, but there are websites where you can ask for funding, and you can try to do something to earn coins to fund your mining.

But this is FINALLY the solution, our society has discovered how to “let the machines do the work”. Mine coin, support the coin economy when you have excess money. And everyone can live happily, with a means of income brought to them basically for free.

EVERY other time one of these revolutions has taken place in any society, someone gets left behind or put in a lower class, or considered the machines…

This time NO ONE should be left behind. Don't be greedy, help save the world.

I think you didn't think this one through...

Someone needs still to produce the stuff, and just adding to/getting cut from new money doesn't really produce anything...

Machines already produce most of our stuff. Cars, other machines, toys, money. Machines could do all that work still, we just need a few inventions in between the humans at the factories and the machines that already exist.

I have thought this through very far.
If we work towards a fully unemployed society, eventually the only jobs left are: Mechanic, Inventor and Specialized jobs.

Meaning:

1. Everyone would have a machine that they repaired, or checked on. (even through a webcam as long as it's working)

2. Some people invent new machines, and new things for people to do.

3. Some jobs will still be necessary, until a machine is invented for them. Ex: Brain surgeon.

....

But, everyone could make a pretty good extra income right now, and we could solve a lot of poverty, hunger, education and child care issues simply by WORKING TOWARDS and unemployed society, I understand that it will not actually be fully unemployed for a long time.

We could basically become a society of businessmen (traders) and inventors, that have knowledge of mechanics and engineering. Like America started out as.

My point was that everyone mining doesn't solve anything at all...

Still, I'm very skeptical that people making or designing the machines won't restrict those...

Yes it does, everyone mining, gives everyone money, making everyone comfortable. When people are comfortable (financially) they can afford machines that other people invent, and they can afford to start inventing things themselves (and next to being poor, being lazy is the 2nd best motivator of inventiveness), and to help others reach financial comfort.

And if everyone doesn't have to worry about what to do with poor people, and what to do with hungry people, and what to do with homeless people, we can start focusing on REAL shit (even though some people will still be focused on abortion).

Why mine at all, then, why not just print money and give it to everyone?

Because that happens to be illegal, while mining isn't, but basically does the same thing.

The goal isn't to mine and sit on your ass for the rest of your life while the machines do more mining to make you money to live on.

The idea is to mine, then make money, then use that money to put real life applications into place. Invention is the only one that I have mentioned, but there are plenty of other ways to start your own company, or publish your own book/magazine, start your own website, make your own movie, run a political campaign, start a charity.

Make the world a better place by mining.

EX:
If you have earned a lot of money mining, buy a "Brother" T-Shirt printing machine. It may cost $5,000-$15,000. But you now have a machine that can print like 6-12 shirts an hour, and it will look like a real shirt, not ironed on shit.

Guess what, now you own a REAL t-shirt making company. And the machines do most of the work, and you can continue mining, maybe even hire people to do the work for you, or make an invention to do it. And you can do the same with magazines, and newspapers. It's just printers, but you do have to get a really good one.

No, you misunderstand. Why can't the government just give everyone a million dollars? Then we'd all be rich.

Attempt in the 60s to create a free society. The information is from a NY based group known as "The Diggers" and it was printed into a book by Abbie Hoffman.
http://www.tenant.net/Community/steal/steal.html

Lol, no you don't understand. At that point the dollar becomes the peso.

Actually, I think you're beginning to understand. An economy needs more than bankers.

Lol, I think you aren't reading, because I have said the whole time we need mechanics, inventors and specialized professionals.

But mining doesn't feed your kids. Sure, it (might) generate some money, but it doesn't grow the food.

But it buys the farm and the seeds. Then continues to provide income after that.

So then those people you hire will be slaves...

So you are saying that one should use mining as means to get capital to start bussiness. And that isn't really anything new. You still need the capital...

YES,
WE ARE NOT A FULLY UNEMPLOYED SOCIETY YET. We are WORKING TWOARDS IT. So the people hired would be slaves to the dollar, and so would everyone else, until we get rid of paper money.

And yes that is what I am saying, because that is ALL anyone can do for now. But I am adding the suggestion that you INVENT things, and GIVE to others.

Did you really need it explained in that much detail?

Here, let me save you the time and trouble.

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/

I know what the Zeitgeist movement is. Why do you guys think you are helping? You could ACTUALLY help by presenting links like that in a non douchey manner, like saying "I read something like this here". You are both acting like this isn't something that should be shared.

You realise that if everyone was mining coins the difficulty would be much greater and the electricity cost may outweigh the amount of money that the coins are worth?

Mining requires capital investment.   It's profitable because not everyone does it.  And just because you have or are making money from it doesn't mean you've discovered some brilliant thing that will save people from having to perform labour.

Machines are doing more and more work for us, but that's got nothing to do with mining coins.  Mining coins is fundamentally no different than mining gold and putting it in a vault.  Neither produces anything that humans can use in their daily lives but both have been necessary to facilitate trade.

1. There are more than 1 kind of coins and more will be made

2. I have been suggesting the WHOLE time that once people make money they help others start mining.

It was a dumb idea when Zeitgeist presented it, and I'm sorry, but it's a dumb idea when you present it.

It never did before, but that's only because it never existed before.

Mining is now directly linked to job creation, not only via mining but the coin stock markets, and the stores like SR and p2p payments.

So now mining is directly linked to the economy, and I am suggesting that it be directly linked to invention, and functioning unemployment.

A free society is a bad idea?

Robosocialism.

A free society doesn't need to get rid of money.

It just needs to get rid of paper money.

Well, great! Australia's been using plastic to print it's fiat currency for years now.

Surely it's completely free by now.

Printed money, American dollars aren't just "paper" either, smart ass.

Nor is most of America's money actually printed. A great deal is entirely in spreadsheets.

But you are saying that everyone can make money by mining coins so that they don't need to work, right?

FINALLY you are starting to understand.

Yes, most money is credit. So once we switch to a credit/coin based system and do away with the dollar, we can get on with society.

No, I am saying that people can mine coins so that they don't have to struggle for food, shelter or money. But you still have to invest some of that back, even if it is just the coin market, because we are not a free society yet.

Peasants are VERY employed, that was a horrible metaphor.

Yes, you do have to work for food and shelter.  People work to provide those things, why should others get it for free?

And as for creating capital and re-investing it to create more wealth.  I think the world figured that out a few centuries ago.

EVERYONE should get it for free.

And if you figured it out, then WHY the fuck do you keep forgetting the part about inventing and sharing? lol.

No, you're still not grasping the problem with your logic. Yes, Bitcoin is part of the solution. Everyone mining for their money is not.


And we're back to handouts again. Do you still not understand why that will not work?

Ex: Police are meant to be a TRANSPARENT part of society, meaning: As long as you are not an outlaw, you should not see police officers on a regular basis, yet they prey upon the regular citizens like tigers hiding in the brush. (giving tickets)

Yet,
These "guardian citizens" are awarded with free:
Cruisers
Computers
Guns
Headquarters
Printing Equipement
and much more, at our expense.

Then when they arrest us, they can put us in the inmate worker program.

Why are NONE of these things provide for us. Why is there no library for cars?

No, the question is: "Why do you not understand that it WILL work?"

What about the people who provide food and shelter?  You are saying they shouldn't be paid?  That they have to work for nothing?  Sounds like slavery to me...

Where does government get it's money from?

Maybe they should just mine, and make those free houses into mining pools  ;D :D

Nothing is free.

FROM US PEASANTS.

But if we provided for each other, instead of going through the middle man. WE WOULDN'T BE PEASANTS ANYMORE.

"Full unemployment" is a work in progress, of course it can not work in todays society. We have to work towards it.

It will be when I start mining.

I don't think you understand what "free" means.

It means I pay for the electricity, I mine the coins, but I give shit away for free.

Awesome. Just send all the coins to the address below.

Nope, this is a Robin Hood project. No misers.

OK, that's it for me, you can have your thread.

Congratulations on making money out of bitcoin.  Unfortunately, no you haven't discovered a source of wealth to free the world from labour.  Sorry.

I know I didn't discover it, I'm just sharing it :) I like to share :)

Check the address, I'm poor as dirt.

Oh, well if that is still true when I am not poor as dirt (I am in the same situation for about 2 months), I will offer many ways for you to earn or get free money. And way better than filling out surveys, especially the free ones. That will just be straight up give-aways and YouTube contests and stuff :) Which will include mining give aways.

Real stuff has to be made.

Making virtual currency doesn't create real wealth.

Mining does provide wealth for small population who can beat the margin, but the rest will pay the cost for it...

Well, tell you what. I'll go and offer goods and services for Bitcoins, and you mine 'em. We'll see who hits it rich first.

Ok, except I am offering goods and services as well, lol.

Plus I am a YouTuber, Photographer and Blogger :) And that all earns money, and Mining can be used to make more money through those things.

No, you're giving them away. It's slightly different.

No, I mean currently. I am selling things for coin. I'm broke, I live on $400 a month including rent.

OK. Maybe you should use less of your "product" though, or threads like today's will be more common.

There is nothing wrong with this thread, ya'll are all just haters.

Dude, you advocated robocomunism via universal mining. I'm sure that sounded like a fine idea at the time. I've had some doozies whilst high myself.

SOCIALISM. Communism is where someone is in charge of who gets what, socialism is like the library. What I am ACTUALLY suggesting, is a socialist republic.
And I'm pretty sure you're having a "doozie" right now  :D

Nope, stone cold sober. (more's the pity)
Sorry, RoboSOCIALISM

Still a bad idea.

You can't just say that after all the proof I've given that it's a good idea, you have to prove it, lol.

And I really didn't ask if it was a good idea or a bad idea, I said it would end slavery.

Abolishing government will do that quite nicely.

And robosocialism will abolish the government quite nicely.

Solar Powered Mining:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189959.new#new

No, it will institute a new one, run by machines.

Geez, man, I'm sorry that you're poor, but look at it this way.  You won't be forever and it's much better to be poor in the early 21st century than it was 100 years ago, or 200...

Doesn't mean you have a right to other people's stuff, and no, robots are not yet capable of doing all the things you want them to by themselves.  Will they one day?  maybe, who knows...

At some point in time, almost all jobs requiring lots of physical work and little to no thought will be replaced by machine.

However, this leaves the important jobs to people: jobs that require you to use your head.  If we're assuming America doesn't change by the time this happens, we can expect to see a lot of people dying.  :P  But anyway, people will still work, I presume mostly for themselves.  Since people will have a lot more leisure time and a lot less work exhaustion, we'll see a spike in intelligence, in which we'll fit the last piece to the puzzle for a post-scarcity economy (hopefully by then, we'll be in a state of post-scarcity anarchism.)

I'm still trying to figure out how any of our current economies can apply here.  But in any case, I do not believe mining is the end-all solution.  There will still be work, it just won't be Taco Bell anymore.  People have this weird thing where, when they're not working for someone else, they start working for themselves.  I don't know why it happens, but we love to do stuff--that is, when we're not exhausted from doing stuff we don't like to do.  Considering a world in which we no longer have to compete for food or shelter (which still rings the overpopulation issue, as a world without starvation and access to medical promotes life), I can see any economic system working, just as long as it's voluntary.

If you've ever seen people make giant murals of their favorite stuff in Minecraft, you're looking into the future.  Why do they work?  Hell if I know, but they love to do it.

Robosocialism sounds good.

I for one welcome our new robotic overlords.


Though I believe I will be long gone when it happens...

No, run by the people. they aren't artificially intelligent, they are gaming computers.

I'm not asking for free stuff, so you can stop acting like I'm a bum. I'm the one that's going to be giving stuff away, so your point is mute. Thanks for the useless paragraph though.

THE AMERICAS MANIFESTO


By: A. Southerner


Respect, Honesty, Family, Knowledge, Love, Wisdom, Understanding, Forgiveness. These 8 pillars will stabilize our nations.

1.Family:


Love, Respect and Family go hand in hand.

a.Respect and Love mothers. Any woman should be valued. They have the gift of bringing children into this world, and there is no reason for them to ever be disrespected, or hit. Respect the wisdom of the older women, and the older generations in general.

b.Respect and Love Children. Do not disrespect a child because of their age, protect the children at all costs, and train children to defend themselves. You should treat any child as if it is your own, and you should treat your own children better than whatever you find precious. And keep in mind throughout your child's life “It takes a village to raise a child” and “Walls that keep out danger, also keep out knowledge”.

c.Respect and Love your brothers and sisters. Your brother/sister is not an acquaintance, he/she is not a relative, or a friend, you are family. Your brother has no color or race, he/she is are all you have in this world, they have been there for you in every situation. You have your elders but one day they won't be here, you have the next generation but they have their own new problems they will be facing. Love and Respect your Brothers and Sisters, share your understanding with your brothers and sister. If you need help, let your family know.

2.Observe/Sense a.Observation is a part of understanding. Observe the world around you. Do not just accept what you hear, or see. We must make an attempt to understand the world around us. See what is around you. Notice the wind, notice the temprature, notice the clouds, the stars, the grass, the trees. Begin to learn their names, understand where it is they belong in nature and why. Deepin your observation, and begin to see why everything is where it is, and what is is doing, and what other things are doing to and with it and what it is doing to other things.

b.See, hear, taste, touch, smell. To understand something, you must get a sense of it. Experience the senses of yourself, experience the senses of your world, experience the senses of your brothers and sisters in the world. Understand each other, understand everything.

c. Plants don't have words, or sign language. The only way a plant can talk is with its chemicals (ex Poison: Don't touch/eat me) Learn to communicate on a level deeper than speech. If this doesn't make sense, ask a brother or sister to help.

d. Yesterday is not right now, and today is not tomorrow. If you're living for the moment? Then your time is already borrowed.

3.Economy


a. The American economy is in shambles, and therefore the American dollar is in shambles. And to make things worse the American dollar is no longer backed by gold or silver. Meaning “pretty soon” the American dollar will fall below the Mexican peso. We should make a net for the economy, instead of just watching it plummet. But if we created our own “private” community bank, and printed our own money (not counterfeit, copies of American bills, a brand new dollar.) and either made it on gold/silver coins, or made it where you could come and actually trade the notes for reserves of gold/silver or something else valuable (water, food, fuel, etc) then if and when the American recession reaches its climax, we will be prepared. And actually with a more foolproof economy than the current “no gold” paper dollar.

b. Every member of the Americas needs a job and/or income of some sort for little or no work (depending on health/ability). There are many services that people could pay the government for, that would make the government a truly useful servant entity, that it ignores: Garden tending, Homeless housing, Energy rigging, Biodiesel making, etc. Which are all very simple tasks that could be achieved and bought by the government in any household/yard for a steady income. And the government could then use those things to provide services to the community. We must show the people in charge how things can change, or we must make the change ourselves, in our own communities.

c. We should make any attempt possible to stop using resources that will be used up, as fuel, and start using things that can be renewed forever, and therefore used forever. As well as use fibers that are more resilient (than cotton, nylon, etc), last longer, and protect us better. To make things like better clothes, and stronger building materials from.

4.Community


a. Give back to the community, never forget where you came from and who your family is. If people in your neighborhood/state don't have money for Christmas/Hanuka/Kwanzaa, bring it to them. If someone is hungry, feed them. If someone has no bed, give them a place to sleep. Do not steal from your brothers and sisters, share with your brothers and sisters.

b. Respect the education of any (respectful) community member that has/does serve(d) in the armed forces, politics, law or government. And remember if you gain power as an officer, official, etc that you came from the community, and are still a part of it. You are there to represent, protect, and serve your community or nation, not to prey upon the citizens of it.

c.Register yourself to vote, and help register anyone in your community to vote. Only about 48% of registered voters (And only about 50% of America is registered) actually turn up to vote, if we can get all nonvoters to write a name in, we can actually get someone good in office.

d.We should intend on unlatching ourselves from the ways of the failing system. There should be true democracy, and true equality. Any person, and any voicefully willing child should be allowed to vote, make decisions in the community, see and learn from the consequences of those decisions. The political system should be more streamlined and responsive to the needs of all the people regardless of age, sex, or race We can not have complete peace until we leave no question of oppression, and revolution. To suppress the mind of a child from the world, simply for being the mind of a child is wrong. Same with any other person, race or species on this planet.

e. Create non-profit services such as churches and shelters, if you can be certified as non-profit you are probably doing something right. Apply for a Township if you have the land, or enough people in your community with deeds that want to make a difference.

f.Work together, organize. When individual organs work together as one body, they can get more done than they could ever imagine alone. Share in each others wisdom, knowledge, and understandings. But do not impose yourself on another, let everyone be their own person. You control your own future.

g. Victimless offenders need to be released from prison. People who stole nothing, left no debts unpaid, hurt no one, and threatened no harm, should not be imprisoned.

h. No hard drugs. It's ok to drink, it's ok to ingest plants (Coffee, Tobacco, Chocolate, marijuana, etc) , it's ok to expand your mind. But do not use or get it physically addicted to a drug. There is no positives to addiction, even if you feel like their on top of the world, you will come down. Painkillers and anesthetics have their place in medicine, don't abuse them. And do not distribute (sell) hard drugs throughout your community. To gain from the addiction of the community, hurts you and everyone.

i. Help a struggling brother, sister, elder, or child. Do not ignore, use or find humor in their struggle. Including court, show up for your family, even if they are wrong.

j. If the people making the rules, and running our world made the exact same amount of money as the lowest person they had jurisdiction over, the world would get better for the oppressed, real quick

k. We need a program of ecological development that would provide incentives for the decentralization of crowded cities and encourage rural living.

5. Education


Much of your education as a child and as an adult, should come from the direct situations occurring in your community, or nation at that time. If we do not learn what the problems are, how they happened, what has been happening around them, who we are, and where we come from, how can we ever expect to solve those problems? Share your education with your brothers and sisters.

a. Learn who your appointed and elected representatives are, and learn what/who they are representing and/or getting paid by, and who their families are. Make decisions at election time based on education and understanding, even if that decision is chaotic to the system (like voting for Elvis). And learn how that system works, like what powers are awarded to which titles.

b. Know the history of your state. Who it was founded by, what was done to found it, when, with what reason, etc. Also study the history of your states high courts, the specific cases and rulings.

c. Study the philosophies of the world. Even if you just study the main three philosophers Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. Educate yourself about the world around you.

d. Learn the law. Learn the legal definitions of words with a Black's Law dictionary, there are many words that are different in there, than in common American English. Understand the difference between Constitutional “Law”, US “Code”, and agency “Regulations” when debating the finer points of law.

e. Understand time, how our calendar was made, what other calendars there are, and what an “age” is. Understand “quality of time”, Kairos (“real” time), and Chronos (“timed” time. With measurements like minutes or seconds). Understand how to use kairos time (the fleeting moment), and free yourself with this understanding.

f. Immerse yourself in new cultures. By traveling, and by simply reaching out in your community. There is much you can learn, even from an “uneducated” tribesman.

g. Educate yourself in as much medical aid as your time and mind will allow, you never know when you could save your brother, sister, or child's life.

h. Do not “specialize”, you may be very talented in one area, but life will demand more from you at some point. You never want to wake up one day and feel like you have “peaked”, let age bring wisdom and wealth of life, not personal imprisonment. Become skilled in many things.

i. Read the Bible, Torah, Qur'an, Rig Veda, and any religious text you can find. Especially if you personally call any of them Holy.

j. Write your own literature. Flyers, brochures, books, anything. Share your thoughts, share current events, share anything. The circulation of information is one of the most important/powerful things in the word.

6. The Beginning


a.Several smaller sections will be written separately as new wisdom and knowledge is gained.

b.Share these thoughts freely, and if you feel like you can add to them to make them better, do so with bullet points under the appropriate letter (a,b,c) Or a new letter if necessary (a whole new subject). If you would like to edit the words, contact me.

c. Each person or animal on the planet, is like the molecules of an organ of a cell in your body in your body. It contributes to: Each group of animals (family, pack, organization) is the organ of the cell. With the molecules coming together to be the organs. The organs work together to be: Ecosystems are like the cell. All of the organs do their part and come together to create a living, active cell. The cells work together to make: The Planets and stars together make up the tissue of the cell. The tissue comes together to form the: Solar systems are like the Organs in a body of god. Everything from the tiniest insect has done his part within his piece of god, and it all rushes like a reverse funnel as the actions of gods: Galaxies are like gods organ systems. His Respiratory System, Circulatory system. Not actually the same as us, but ours represent his. “We have been created in gods image” Just means, “think about it, we're god.” Everything that happens has cause and effect, and comes together to be “gods plan”.

You're going to run your economy on PS3s?

This thread isn't a rhetoric, it is a motion.

You're still high, aren't ya?

Go ahead and look up FinShaggy on Google, then you come back and tell us if I'm high.

Yup, looks like a stoner to me:
http://files-cdn.formspring.me/profile/20120708/n4ff9cd5cdd5d9_large.jpg

That's me like year ago, but you get the point. I'm high all day every day. I am a medical marijuana patient in Colorado, I really don't see how that changes anything.


Make a real point  :D

I'm going to say this slowly, so that you can wrap your brain around it.

Marijuana does not improve logic.

In fact, it does just the opposite.

If you are high, you are not thinking clearly.

Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone just got along.

No, you can't run an economy on PS3s.

Let me say this slowly so you can understand it

Talking about weed has nothing to do with the topic at hand

You are out of arguments

You have lost

So now you are trolling me

Stop it.

Share you wealth.

GIVE YOUR NEXT MINING RIG TO A FRIEND AS A GIFT. Not me, a friend. Or even a family member.

lol

I'm not trolling you. I'm saying the idea is stupid, and it's stupid because you're high. If you were not, perhaps you could see how stupid it is.

The argument is simple: You cannot run an economy with mining hardware.

Which is trolling me.

Why don't you ACTUALLY try to prove how I am wrong.  :o

That's not an argument to my point, because that is not the point at all. '

My point is that if we SHARE we can all live comfortably, and if we all live comfortably we can start inventing things and WORK TOWARDS LETTING THE MACHINES DO THE WORK.

And I am not wrong.

I see. If we share, we can all live comfortably.

You know, this plan has been tried before. Didn't work out too well.

You know there is one part wrong there.

Humans...

It has NOT been tried before, we have never had the means to do this.

More specifically, humans like you and cat guy.

No, not robosocialism. The whole "if we all share" thing. That has been tried, many times and many ways, and it never works.

We never had the robots before, so full sharing was never an option. Socialism ALWAYS turned into communism, which is no better than a dictatorship.

But robosocialism gives the opportunity for a Robosocialist Republic. And what that means is, a FREE society of individuals who own their own land and property, who pay taxes to NO MAN and NO ENTITY, they just provide what they need by donating the money themselves. If you want something, start a committee to get funding, or fund it yourself.

Every man should have the right to a machine, provided through recycling programs (used machines). And every man who already has a stock pile of coins has the opportunity to be a job creator.

Problem: "Oh know, people are hoarding coins." Guess what, you can always mine them. You could always make your own new one. Or you could always invent a new machine or product that people want to spend their coins on.

AND, if the government needs money: to go to war, to feed people, to shelter people (though there should be people doing that already if there is that much money flowing), then the government provides a service. Ex: Coin Exchange website, online wallet, etc. And things like it does today, like :the DMV, camping at parks, etc. or even (you guessed it) mining(or providing electricity).

Careful. That last bit sounds suspiciously like capitalism.

You aren't even staying on point. WE HAVE TO USE CAPITOLISM TO GET TO A FREE SOCIETY. Have you learned any history yet? Are you still in school? What grade? I can help you with whatever you're having problems with.

One type of society, BECOMES the new type of society. It happens over time, and while it's happening it seems like it won't, but it DOES. People thought slavery was just PART of America in the past, but we got past that. People thought the UK just "owned" America, we got past that.

And guess what, we CAN become a free people.

Yeah, but capitalism doesn't just "become" socialism. Nor is it necessary to get rid of capitalism in order to become free.

The argument is, how do we do the following:

A. Become free (by removing the state)

and

B. Ensure everyone's playing nicely through socialism (to make this system work)

They're in direct conflict; A requires there to be no state, but B requires a state to keep the system in check.  In this case, robosocialism requires machines to act as the state.  Because machines are programmed by people, they're merely another proxy; who programs the machines?  Who invents these rules, and how would we change them?

Can't be bothered reading the whole thread, but

Anyone else thinking Matrix?

Mining is profitable as long as there is a huge barrier to entry -up until now, the fact that comparatively very few even thought of doing it. As soon as big capital discovers the game, you'll have 3-4 big industries that have the most powerful machines, located where they can get the cheapest electricity, maybe also in bulk discount. The difficulty will then be so high no one else will be profitable again; since no one else will have advanced enough mining rigs, nor cheap enough electricity; since they will require a very huge effort in initial capital and specialized management to get. There goes your money for everyone.

As it has been said before, our society could probably afford taxing hard (eventually through printing money, and thus inflation) a relatively small working elite, to allow the others to live a simple frugal country life without need of doing anything. But do we really want it?

Question is more of do we have alternatives? Entry to job market seems to be treding to situation where less and less people have work available.

It would be interesting to get calculations how many people need to be employed to feed everyone, that is including the whole supply chain. With less waste I think the end result would be surprisingly few...

There is two alternatives, either we go socialism. Or we don't care about majority's situation...

Would you like to know why?

Short term profit over longer term... Would be my guess.


I quite worried about my short term employ-ability. Even educated people are unemployed and getting any reasonably paying work seems to be hard.

No work?  Create work ;D

Ah so easy...

Ha ha maybe not as easy as I'm making it.  But for example: Bill wants to be a video game designer.  But there's no positions available anywhere!  What does Bill do?  He goes indie, maybe gets a few buddies who are good at music or coding etc., and makes his own video games.

No, actually. businesses are contracting their workforce to preserve long-term viability.

Again, would you like to know why?

Why don't you tell?

Stop telling people what to do and start doing it yourself

Nobody's asking. ;)

The answer, of course, is price floors. Specifically, a price floor on labor. Price floors always result in supply outstripping demand. (When they do anything at all)

That's what people said about slavery "Slavery does not just 'go away' and get replaced by industrialism, it's impossible."

And yes, capitalism is a form of slavery, as recognized by most of the rest of the world.

I never suggested removing the state, you are simply arguing with yourself.

Agreed, and I think most people would like to just ignore the struggling majority (even "middle class" citizens try to ignore the struggle, when most of them are in more debt than anyone, and there for ARE the struggle)

I understand your logic is impaired, but maybe you can still grasp this:

The state is your problem, not capitalism. While the State exists, man cannot be free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

LOL

I am starting doing it myself, I don't even mine yet, and I will be getting someone else a rig as I buy myself my own first rig.

So now that I did what you said, you do what I sad and GIFT YOUR NEXT RIG.

The state is not the problem, it is the conservative republicans. MY STATE (Texas) is perfect for this plan.
And if by "state" you mean "fed", then yes end the state. But the Texas government needs to stay in tact, while changing just a little.

RIGHT! The most conservative state in the union is the PERFECT breeding ground for Robosocialism!

And no, by "state" I mean "government."

Just like gold, a medium of exchange is need to be produced by labor, and the value of it should be based on demand

This means, when goods/services are abundant, the gold become expensive, make the gold mining profitable, so that lot's of people will mine gold; when lot's of people are mining gold, the goods/services will become expensive, people will move from gold production into goods/services production

In this way you will always have 100% employment

So, in a modern society where higher and higher productivity is reached through automation and AI, more and more people will only need to mine bitcoin to make a living. But if too many people are going for bitcoin mining, then the labor force reduced and the other goods/services will become scarce, bitcoin price will fall

But this does not solve the problem of higher productivity people also mine the coin when they work. To be fair,  coin mining should be a full time job which need constant time input, this is currently a drawback of bitcoin

YOU DON'T EVEN MAKE POINTS WHEN YOU TALK.

Yes, Texas would be a perfect 'breeding ground' for a Robosocialist Republic, just as it is serving as a perfect 'breeding ground' for regular socialism (have you ever been to a college campus), and a 'breeding ground' for illegal immigrants (even though conservatives hate them), and a 'breeding ground' for stoners (even though it has some of the harshest drug laws).

I'm afraid you're the one arguing with yourself.  You don't say, "I want people to be free and I want to end economic slavery", and then turn around and say, "By the way I agree that we need to be ruled and ordered by the state."

Which is it?  Are you for freedom, or are you against freedom?  Your thread implies you're pro-freedom.  Now you're saying you're pro-control.  Choose a side of the fence.

This is true,
BUT other coins popping up, and already existing can help with that. EX: my plans aren't even primarily with BTC, I see great promise in DVC.

Exactly, I don't say that.

What I said is:
I want people to be free to not have to get a job they don't want
&
I want a state that only makes money via SERVICES to it's citizens, that they willingly pay for

Austin, huh?

Yeah, the rest of Texas is not Austin.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AUSTIN (Exactly my point though, you automatically knew a part of Texas it would work in) and was raised in McKinney, and East Texas is my favorite place, because of all the broke stoners (that would love an opportunity like this).

Which would be, what, exactly? To waste electricity and heat up their house?

While making money.

Ahh--my bad.  To do this, you stop regulating, by removing the government (or limiting them to the point where they can do nothing.)  Why must it be the guy with all the soldiers who provides these "services"?  What services are these which a normal business who lacks military force cannot provide?

Have you tried mining yet? Do you know if you can actually turn a profit doing so with your specific hardware?

There would be no end to regulation, as a Republic the nation would regulate itself still, based on the decisions of the people.

No I have not tried mining yet, and I know for a FACT I can not turn a profit using my specific hardware.
Both of these things are irrelevant to the topic, and me mining.

We already have that, America is what you're referring to.  So far, it hasn't been working out, thanks to regulation and socialism.

No it's not. Our welfare system is horrible, and there is no striving for unemployment. And not every man is given a means to produce money.

What I am referring to is what America wishes it was, and is supposed to be.

OK, Economics 101:
Spending more money than you are generating is not "making money." It's losing money.

This thread 101:
That was never an issue. You are again not making any point, except to prove that our current economic system is SHIT.

Dude, look: Mining takes electricity. If you are spending more on electricity than you are generating via mining, all you're doing is running an expensive heater. In the summer. In Texas.

1) Read the thread in my sig, Solar powered mining is a solution. And as mentioned MANY times in this thread, REIVESTMENT is a solution.

2) I know 2 people mining in Texas already, you can mine.

Welfare is socialism.  It's horrible because it's taking someone's cash and giving it to someone else, through force, without consent (outside of "If you live here, you have to do it.")

Though you're right that not everyone can produce money, it's also costly to produce Bitcoin, and normal people can't live off it.  If everyone mined, you'd make very little (or less than what you're paying for the mining rig,) because everyone would be competing to the point where it was no longer profitable.  People stop mining when they can't profit.  Other people make more money when people stop mining, and it becomes profitable again.  If everyone mined, they'd have to do so out of force, because nobody wants to plug up a machine that works at a loss.

People need to work these things out on their own.  Government intervention only causes problems.  You cannot improve Obamacare, outside of destroying it.  That's socialism at work.  It's artificial.  If people are given the freedom to do as they please, they'll also find the freedom to do the work they want.  You'll see businesses shutting down for not finding people willing to work at the wages provided (minimum wage; thanks, government, for telling people 7.25 is supposed to be living wage.)  You'll see businesses rising from those who once said, "There's no jobs, I can do nothing," and flourishing; do you know why Apple is outsourcing all its labor to China?  Regulation makes it unprofitable to do it in America.  If people, which is behind the system you tout, are the key, why must we introduce a state?  The state is great at tax farming, but they're not so great at letting people do what they want.  It's a conflict.  For people to be free to choose their work, their businesses need to be free.  What good is the state, then, when it comes to a free market?  What is their service?

That whooshing noise? That was you, missing the point.

Well I am proposing a BETTER welfare system, that simply RECYCLES old equipment and houses people in places that can be sectioned off partially as a giant mining network. (Why not let people live there?) Then allows people to get on their feet by giving them something they can use to trade on an online stock market.

Like, imagine if turned ALL libraries into giant mining buildings. AND had rooms that homeless people could sleep in at night.
1) The library becomes profitable
2) Homeless people have a place to stay, and they can use the public computers during the day for trading instead of whatever homeless people are doing on the computer right now at the library.

And not all people can work these things out on their own, I agree people need to be independent. BUT, imagine you are 6 years old, your mom says "go sell this on the corner to mr. joe and mr. bob when they pass", hands you a bag of rocks, then says "Do this and you get to eat tonight." Then she goes in the back room with the guy that gave her the bag of rocks.

Now this kid gets older, he's 12, doing the same thing. He starts going to jail for it now though.
Then when he's 16 his mom dies, all he knows is this rock and whatever the people that hung around his house would teach him.

You don't think that guy deserves another chance? A chance to not live in a cell?
PEOPLE NEED HELP.

Nope, I am certain that it was YOU missing the point. It doesn't matter how much it costs to set up if I give them their original mining rigs, then everything is FREEE!!!

And where are you going to get the money to give these away?

From selling things, and doing work. I am fortunate enough to have a (shitty) computer.

Like seriously in like 2-3 months I'm going to be making threads like: "2,000th post gets a free..."

and in 4-5 I expect to see "FinShaggy still has not delivered..."

But at least it will be failing to deliver free stuff, instead of scamming people.

Lol, I will definitely be delivering.

Why do you have to come through here and say so many pointless nothings?

Thing is, you're missing the glaring hole I presented before:


In other words, if you equip everyone with a mining rig, they're all going to make fractions of what they would've made if only a few people had mining rigs.  It all evens out; whoever has the most hashing power makes the most Bitcoin.  If everyone has roughly the same hashing power, they're all going to make just a tiny bit of Bitcoin.  It's doubtful that this will pay for the burned out computers, even if they're solar powered, not to mention the cost of living.

Plus, solar power is costly, too, due to physical equipment.  Geothermal would be better but even still, that would require a lot of cash to pull off.  So people, in the end, would still have to work.  It's better to create a society in which people can freely work as they see fit, than force a society which people must upkeep mining rigs that aren't making them money, and they'd have to look for work anyway.

I'll believe it when I see it.

A pathological need to correct stupidity, and to assuage my existential boredom?

I ALREADY REPLIED TO THIS...

There are more than one kind of coin, SWITCH COINS, or make a new one when it gets too hard. And as I said before, I'm not even mainly focused on BTC. The computers WILL pay for themselves.

Solar Power is costly if you want to solar power a building, but to just solar one room, or even just one outlet isn't too expensive. And there is the wind power alternative.

So you're just a troll... Great.

Just watch though, you don't have to believe me now, but that doesn't mean you can sit here and continue what you are doing.

Right... just make up a new currency. You haven't thought that one through very far, have you?

Do you know what website this is?

Yes, BITCOINtalk.org.

A place to talk about a made up new currency, lol.

And who will buy your "ItGotTooHardCoin"?

Think about it. Why is Bitcoin worth money?

Bitcoin is worth money because you can buy drugs with it, and now there are REAL stores that will accept it. On and off the internet.

And I could probably exchange my "ItGotTooHardCoin" for "FeatherCoin", since that's basically what feather coin is. And soon feather coin will be worth something.

Sounds like a lot of hope but not a lot of underlying planning.  When LTC gets filled up and is no longer profitable, you go to PPCoin; when PPCoin is no longer profitable, you go to TRC; when TRC is no longer profitable, you go to, I dunno, Bytecoin; eventually people start making their own coins and mine those, but are worth maybe .000001 BTC a piece.  Anyway, wealth isn't created out of thin air, unless we're talking about the banks, but as we can see, this isn't good for society at all.  If machines are doing all the work, we may as well not worry about money anymore; when people have food, shelter, water, security, all in one package, given to them, for free, they just go out and do their own thing anyway.

Sure, the computers may pay for themselves, but are they profitable, is the question.  If everyone is creating these currencies, no, they are not, because everyone is earning equal amounts of this currency; nobody wants something they already have.  It then becomes a matter of trading something which is no longer scarce, and would still be pointless, for people have no work to store in it; the work is already being done by something which needs no payment.

I know there's a road between now and a PSE or an RBE, but I don't think this is it.

Uh huh. And when that got too hard? Just make another one, right?

Bitcoin is worth money because people want it, and are willing to part with money to get it. If you made a new currency out of nowhere and said, "It's just like Bitcoin, except it's not Bitcoin, because Bitcoin got too hard to mine," You would get far, far fewer people wanting it, and they would want large amounts of it in order to give up anything of theirs. So, you make a few hundred thousand itgottoohardcoins, and trade them in for .1 Bitcoin. Yeah, still not making money.

Ok, finally a question I haven't answered yet being asked.

Are they PROFITABLE. True, maybe the computers can only pay for themselves. But when they are FREE, that is enough for you to start something new. It's like giving someone the gift of POTENTIAL.

And your argument of scarcity has been argued over and over, but the simple fact that coins have a limit makes that argument void. Sure they could drop in value, but as long as there are real world uses for them they are still better than the American dollar which is inflated every day by credit and printed money.

YES.

I really don't see why you have a problem with crypto currencies.

The coin economy is similar to the Cannabis economy in Europe.

Younger people can find hash, but actual buds are hard to find unless you've got connections.

New coins will be hash, while old coins are like buds. And it will go from decade to decade, until we start making coins that can last entire generations. Old coins will be hard to get, while new ones will be in circulation.

And this HAS to happen.
One day too many people will have bitcoins in wallets they don't use, and the coin will go dormant, and a new one will be used.

As opposed to your dime-a-dozen NewCoins, which multiply every time difficulty gets too high for the old one.

(and no, those new coins will be ditch-weed, not hash.)

Printing American dollars and making a new currency are 2 completely different things.
Hash is the ditch weed of Europe (available, cheap and plentiful), thanks for trying though.

The case I'm making is this; if each Bitcoin were worth 1 million dollars, and every person had one Bitcoin, 1 million dollars looks like nothing.  300 million millionaires just means people will be trading hundreds of thousands for a loaf of bread.  People do not magically get rich together; something happens in between that allows people to thrive alongside each other.  They thrive because they work and trade their work for the things they need; the issue comes when a person's work is watered down to make the employer richer.

They can create a new currency, but it's still the same issue; at some point in time, people stop accepting it.  I can create Mikecoins, and spend all day mining them with a few buddies, but getting from that stage to where Bitcoin is now would be next to impossible; I'm not adding anything new to Mikecoins.  It's just a BTC clone with a name change and a reset.  There's no appeal for having 10,000 Mikecoins, outside of hoping and praying that it will someday be worth a dollar a pop.  Considering, at this point, there will be millions of other coins on the market, doing nothing but being Bitcoin, it is next to impossible; there will be competition among crypto-currencies, to improve these coins, so people will flock to them, and make the inventors money by transferring the wealth of others, and early adopters, and thus, capitalism.

So what about Mikecoins?  The 1,000,000th bitcoin clone to be created, because the popular Shagcoin became too difficult to mine at a profit?  Well, it goes nowhere, in an over-saturated altcoin market, and is worth next to nothing.  It does not pay for the computers it burned to mine them, and does not pay for me to live.  It's still not worth the effort.  Wealth is not created from thin air, is the point I'm making.

Except when you make a new coin every time the difficulty rises above a certain threshold. Then it's essentially the same thing. Just print more money.

You misunderstand. Your coins would be like the actual ditchweed in Europe. Unwanted, unloved, and useful only for rope.

That would not happen.
First off, if Bitcoin is worth a million dollars, the dollar already did something wrong.

Second, Bitcoin does not have the ability to "replace" the current economy. It is simply an alternative, all the currencies will need to work together to wipe out paper money, and get the world back to gold, and the new credit/token/coin currencies.

Third, Sure Bitcoin could hurt the economy, as long as people like me don't suggest alternatives. My suggestion is, when you have an excess in another coin or dollars, or euros... But Coins for more than they are worth, simply to help the economy thrive. I believe if rich people did the same thing (bought euros with their American dollars, then bought American dollars for 1.25% their value) the economy would correct itself. But people are just too greedy, my hope is that we can inform enough miners to make that not the case with crypto currency.

True, you could make mike coins and one day people could stop using them. BUT, if you invent something, or create a business and make Mikecoins the main currency used to buy the item, or within the business (like dave and busters) you can guive your coins a real world value and they will never be worthless.

And I know wealth is not made from thin air, and that is not what I am suggesting. I suggest SHARING wealth once it is got, and inventing new things and starting new organizations.

Not if you make it necessary for your invention or business. Which you can create once you have been aided by social welfare.

Social welfare paid for by mining those new coins! I gotta admit, your logic is perfect (-ly circular).

Please understand, I'm not just trying to kill your buzz here. I'm trying to save you a lot of wasted time and money. If you want to try and make a solar miner, go for it. But please, don't pretend that it's the answer to all the world's problems. You can't just magic up prosperity. You have to work for it.

I'm saying, people would never start using them; nobody would bother.  Nobody wants to use a million different coins to buy a million different things.  For example, if Google invented Googlecoins, and Amazon invented Amazoncoins (not the stuff they already got, mind you,) people would cry, "But we already have Bitcoin!  I don't want to use Googlecoins!"  It would be like McDonalds only accepting Happycoins, or WalMart only accepted Walcoins; it's bad for business, and makes it annoying for the consumer to keep track of it.  Also, by assigning your Googlecoins a value of 10 Bitcoins a pop, you're artificially setting the price; this doesn't happen in the real world.  People have to figure out what a currency is worth by themselves by agreeing on it.  It would be like saying my Laptop isn't really worth $200, it's actually worth $2000, except no one would purchase at $200 laptop at $2000, unless they were getting shafted.

In relation to your last statement: If wealth is not created from thin air, you cannot share what wealth you didn't create from thin air.  That's essentially what this is boiling down to; it's an attempt to generate wealth by doing nothing.  In the end, it's going to do little more than secure the various crypto-coin networks, without making the person money.  If I sold you a mining rig for 10k Shagcoins, and you used it to produce 100k Mikecoins, all of which are worth 10k Shagcoins (if you're lucky), then we're going nowhere.  As I said before, in a system like this, it's better to either lose the concept of crypto-currency all together, or stick with a system in which people work; there is no real in-between here.  If people are already living off machine labor, and all their necessities are being met, then they have no real reason to trade to live.  They might trade for entertainment and such, but, I predict that even this will disappear.  Really, there's nothing left to fight for, once everyone's perfectly healthy and happy; you just do what you wanna do, like go biking, or write a book.  The question is then irrelevant to this thread; how to make it all happen to ensure people are actually free.

As myrkul said, I'm not trying to rain on your idea, but, let's get to the root of the matter.  Have you seen Zeitgeist?

NO, your logic is perfectly illogical.

Mining wouldn't be the only thing paying for the social welfare, I have explained this over and over.
The DMV still makes money
Toll roads still make money
Camping and entering parks
Hunting Permits
They can create online wallets and charge us transfer fees
Or do the same thing by creating a coin exchange website
Or an ebay type website
Or a silk road type website

The government simply has to earn its own money (in this scenario), mining is not the only thing it should do.

Yes they would, people already use alternative coins. And if they have a use, people would use new ones. Like the gold in World of Warcraft, I bet it could be considered an online currency, because I bet there are people trading REAL world stuff (I know they at least trade money for gold).

If someone invented a game that used their new currency, then bam, the currency is at least as valuable as their game. Then make a forum, and make people pay coins as membership fees, bam, two real world applications for your coin. Then start selling candy bars for coins, bam, now people are wondering where to get coins so they can get a candy bar.

I am not talking about making it from thin air, is your point that you do not think I have the ability to build capitol? Because I do, I am not "proposing" plans, I am presenting them.

No I have not seen zeitgeist, but everyone tries to make me watch that video and they think it's awesome. I have seen the first 20 minutes though and I learned all that stuff when I was like 13.

And you think that a government that must earn it's own money is going to be spending it on social welfare?

If that's t's only purpose in existing, then yes.

1. We can build our own towns, roads and water grids, which has been proven by the masonic societies. Compare America to Mexico and you will see what I mean.

2. We can police ourselves, and I see no reason why police should not already be volunteers.

3. The only reserves they need is for war, and other foreign dealings. There should be no "foreign policy" except for "free trade".

Each county, and town ship should be its own corporation, free of ties from the federal government. But they should still come together to form the "State". And the state should be a Robosocialist Republic.

Then how is it going to earn it's money?

Please Read

Then wouldn't it be wiser to use the money those services generate to maintain those services, like any other company that provides those services? Otherwise they will be out-competed, and make no money.

What you're describing is similar to the Venus Project showcased in Zeitgeist (robosocialism); it would be in your best interest to watch all 3 movies, so you have a better idea of what an RBE would work like.

You're missing the point tho; lets say we had A-Coin.  And B-Coin.  And C-Coin.  And D-Coin.  So now you have 4 different wallets for 4 different coins.

Multiply that by a million and we have a problem.  Not only is it hard to keep track of, but each individual coin would be nearly worthless.  It's like government printing out more money.  Bitcoin is scarce because it has a limit; however, 1 million incarnations of Bitcoin, and counting, are not scarce.  Because of this, people will stick to a very small number of coins, and will likely mine those coins, except they can't, because everyone is, so we're back at the problem described earlier.  I've got a million Mikecoins and I'd be lucky to get my mum to take them to buy a sandwich off her.  Now she's got a million Mikecoins that nobody wants; imagine this, except with all the people in the world, and we're having a problem keeping everyone on the same page.  People will naturally flock to the same few coins, and if not for better coins, coins that have been around longer, and are more widely adopted, just because they can use them for stuff.

I can't buy a thing with my PPcoins btw.  I got quite a few of them.  I can, however, trade them for one or two bitcoins.  That's PPCoin, and it's been around for a couple years.  Imagine creating a new one every other week.  They'd never take off.  We simply have no need for that many altcoins.  Altcoins are great, but a million of them is just way too much.  You won't find anyone to take fj8e92qjr839qCoin, the 432,398th coin to be created.  As I said, again, it's an attempt to create wealth out of nothing.

Also, WoW gold is worth next to nothing.  It has value because it's a pain in the ass to collect and people are lazy (they're also suckers, but, that's nothing new.)  It is, however, unlimited in supply, so it's a lot like fiat, except much worse.  Nobody is buying candy bars with WoW gold because of this, nor are they paying their subscriptions with WoW gold because the devs are smarter than to accept their own virtual currency that's unlimited in supply.  Finally, because WoW gold is earned in-game, it's nearly impossible to get enough people using it, and it's insecure, for your account can be stolen, shut-down, and any mod can create themselves WoW gold on the spot.  Try paying for your grocery bill with it; never happen.  That's essentially what will happen with enough offshoots of Bitcoin; the altcoins become worthless.

But as I said before, when there's no work, there's no economy.  So the point is moot.

1. Maintaining most of those things costs less than they make, I just listed the parts of government that are actually lucrative.

2. Mining and providing electricity are two things the government could do that would be even more lucrative and liked.

3. I believe the government could then even afford NEW ventures, such as pharmaceutical.

And the Texas gov is already big on oil.

Not everyone would use all the coins. Coins would be specific to areas, then on the internet they could be traded more freely.

And it's not my fault you can't buy things for PP coins, if you want pp coins to have a real world value, start posting things on Craigslist, facebook and here in exchange for PP coins, then your statement is no longer true. And you're wrong, they could take off. If you and your friends started using a PP coin economy for fantasy football bets or even to measure debts to each other, they would have a use in your group of 2-3-4-5-10-15 etc and eventually others would use it too. Someone just has to stimulate that economy to start with.

And I understand that wow gold is worthless because it is infinite, but people still DO pay for it. My whole point (that you missed) in that metaphor is that it is not hard to get people to want an online currency, especially if you have a little game designing ability.

And as I said before, there will always be work: Mechanics, inventors, and specialized professionals.

I dunno what else to tell you; you seem to be completely, 100% in belief that your system will work, despite my arguments.  I will not be taking part, but, I wish you the best in finding people who feel the same way as you.

Also, I highly recommend the Zeitgeist movies; they should be on Netflix, the first one anyway.  The other two are on YouTube.  They'll help you better understand what it is you're striving for.

I'm detecting a theme here: a lot of belief and not a lot of research.

Let's just do one tiny little thing. How much does the turnpike system through Oklahoma net the state? Net, mind, how much money do they gain from it? This is an important number to know, since the "profit" from this will be going to fund your social welfare programs.

It is not just belief, I have given you reasons for everything I have said.

And I'll watch them one day.

You mean a lot of research and not a lot of application. Sorry I don't have money yet, that doesn't mean I am not doing this though.

I could easily figure out stuff like that, I'm from McKinney TEXAS (which is where this system is planned for) and they recently built a highway in order to alleviate traffic to Dallas from Oklahoma, while bringing more traffic to our town. Paid for by the county, richest county in Texas to bring more money to the county. Why is it the richest county? Jail.... Imagine if those cells could make money with computers instead of inmates though? :)

Not once have you given us numbers to work with. It's all been conjectures and dreams and hopes.

In short, Stoner logic. Like Mike, I'm bowing out now. You can't say I didn't try. I wish you luck, you'll need it.

So you just don't like that I haven't done anything yet. It really took 10 pages to say that?

Just watch :)

If that's what you take away from what I said, sure. It's not what I said, but you've been consistently misunderstanding me the whole time. I'm used to it.

No, that is what you said. You want "numbers" not "ideas". Lol.
You're just on the wrong thread if you are saying anything different.

Hello, OP.

I'd like to inform you that you're wrong.  Moreover, it's difficult to explain why you're wrong because you contradict your own arguments so many times that a flow chart of your thought processes could be depicted as a ball of yarn.  However, I'll leave you with a simple consideration.


 Suppose we achieve your Utopian dreams and we partake in a totally mechanized society.  What then?  What do you need coins for?  To buy goods and services?  From who?  Robots?  You really think a robot fucking cares if you pay it a Bitcoin or a Litecoin, or pay it at all?  I've never heard of a robot getting pissed because he got stiffed on a few alt-coins.

The overall end would be no money. At all.
Everyone supplied with the means to survive, simply because it is available :)

So, why can't we just build the robots instead?  What's with all this time-wasting coin business?

Because the robots need to be invented, and the people that would invent them are too busy working or starving or being in jail because they didn't want to work or starve.

So why don't we free them and give them bread?  What's with all this time-wasting coin business?

Because they won't free them and give them bread, but coins can.

Just wanted to interject here, that there are many people who make a fine living in the career of robotics, even here in the US, but especially in Japan. It's not like there's some next-gen robotic researcher picking beans because he can't get research money.

Very wrong.
There is tons of wasted potential all over the world, and especially in America. It is lost to poverty, senseless violence, Hard drugs and other things America could word towards fixing.

Yes, you are. But, please, don't let me interrupt. Carry on.

You REALLY think EVERY (and even the best) robotics (and inventive in general) minds, can afford to go to robotics schools?

That's a joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRST_Robotics_Competition

And that is supposed to prove that we live in an ideal world? Where magically EVERY great mind is recognized, lol.

You didn't do what I said, because you didn't stop telling me what to do.

Changing peoples minds is much more than telling them your way is better. We just demonstrated this. "stop telling people what to do"..."now do what I said"........

The snake sheds its skin when the snake sheds its skin.

But since you are telling me something, I will tell you something-

You're arguing with someone with the most opposite vision for society as yourself. Neither of you will ever change each others minds. The ironic thing is both of you want to improve our society and the lives of people in it. If you're not enjoying this pride game than stop wasting your time on it.

No, but they do offer scholarships, and hands-on experience with robotics. So, since there's no such thing as an ideal world, one where the opportunity is presented will have to do.

1) I'm not sharing "My way" or telling people what to do, if you had read you would have realized that. I am making suggestions for a better world, and telling people my plans (Not "My way" just what I will be doing soon, anyone can do it). Try reading again with that mindset and maybe you can be less confused when you next reply.

2) I am not arguing with anyone, so I don't see the "pride game" you are talking about. I am simply sharing with the world my plans, and how they can benefit from each other.

I think you are the one that needs to drop your pride, then try re-reading the thread.

Good, we are both enjoying ourselves in that case  :D

I'm not necessarily "enjoying" myself, just trying to help.

Anyone got any inventions?? :)

Not a single invention???

Check it out, I got one. You get a smaller solar panel than you would regularly need, making the overall project cheaper than a regular solar panel. Then you use a large magnifying glass, or lens and focus it onto the small solar panel. Making a small solar panel as effective as a panel that is at least as big as the lens. :)

And if you took this idea and made a reverse telescope with lenses and mirrors, imagine how powerful it could be... And not only powerful but imagine how LARGE you could make the part where the light comes in, then how small you could make the panel.

You have no idea how solar panels actually work, do you?

Yes, yes, I know, quit getting my science in the way of your dreams. Please, carry on, though.

They absorb the sun, and the more direct the sunlight is the better. And you never put out any science, so "your science" is in the way of nothing, because it is not present. 

And you're a troll. So your opinion doesn't even really matter :)

That's a vague definition of how they work. Do you understand the actual physics involved? Do you know how the light is converted into electricity?

I do. And there is a reason that your suggestion is not already implemented.

hint:
http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2008/04/magnifying-glass.jpg

If you knew you wouldn't be trolling, you would be sharing. I know why it hasn't been used, and I plan on correcting that problem myself if no one else does (panels can't take the heat is the problem). You're such a shitty troll, sorry I knew the answer, I bet you don't stop trolling though.

I spent a fairly good deal of time and money gaining that knowledge. The least you could do is look it up on Wikipedia. And if you have the solution to solar panel efficiency, Don't waste it on here, get that thing to market. You'll make a mint, and be remembered as a scientific hero, to boot.

I'm not trolling you. I'm trying to help you.

Well I don't plan on being a scientific hero, but as soon as I start getting paid I will be working on the development of these panels. All of this projects will be "in the works" very soon, and actually "being done" in the next 6 months to a year.

I'm not saying the panel will be created in a year, I'm saying I'll have regular solar panels by then and be working on making my own more efficient version.

You are not trying to help me, you are definitely trolling "Help" comes with advice, not shit talk and hints at shit I already know.

If you already know that placing a magnifying glass so as to focus the light on a small solar panel will not increase it's efficiency or allow the output to equal that of a larger one, why did you suggest it?

It WOULD increase its efficiency, if you could keep it from melting.

STOP TROLLING seriously.

It is, but not with photovoltaic panels....

Have they invented one that can take the heat?

No, it would not... the efficiency is a result of the physical processes occurring that turn photons striking the PV cell into electrons coming out the wires. Heat generation is a direct result of the lack of efficiency inherent in the PV cell. Simply throwing more light at the problem won't help it, no matter how much cooling you also throw at it.

I'm pretty sure the other guy just addressed this issue, and in a non-trolly manner. Please take his lead :)

Certainly. Ekaros, all yours.

(Some prep reading, FinShaggy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy )

Yeah, good read. I'm not sure such system do really scale for home use...

Are you sure?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_photovoltaics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_photovoltaics)

Ha, nice :)
Already in existence... I guess no invention necessary, just development now.

Interesting. You'll note that it uses high-efficiency cells, and requires additional trackers, and cooling. Throwing more light at an inefficient cell doesn't increase it's efficiency.

So it sounds like we just have to develop the technology, and you are too lazy to even talk about doing that, lol. Wow. TROLL, by nature... You don't even realize you are doing it...

Shag, why not go out and get this stuff done?  We've already talked enough about it, now's the time for action.

You do realize that people are developing the technology? People are working as we speak to increase PV efficiency and power output. Telling you that slapping a magnifying glass on a regular panel isn't going to help much isn't trolling, it's injecting a little reality into your THC-soaked fantasy.

I AM POOR.

But I'm getting paid in June, and I will be doing exactly that.

Great, then maybe next time you could say that NOT like a mad troll. And if they develop it, I'll just buy that and try to make it better.

I really don't see how you aren't understanding this.

NO MATTER HOW GOOD SHIT GETS, I WANT TO MAKE IT BETTER :D

I'm glad for you. I wish you luck. You'll forgive me, I hope, if I don't expect much in the way of results from a broke stoner.

If you can't expect things from a broke stoner, then you must not believe in Apple/Mac, or America itself (founded by rich stoners that made everything out of hemp)...

Or the beginning of civilization, which was the cult of Pashupati, which can be traced to the cult of Shiva, or MARIJUANA lol

And of course the old man on the mountain and his crazy ninja stoners...  The ORIGINAL Assassins, Hashashins :)

They got results. All I've seen from you so far is unrealistic dreams. Now, go, and exceed my expectations. I wish you luck.
^{(you'll need it)}

Unrealistic? Other people are LITERALLY developing the technology that you are calling 'unrealistic dreams' lol...

All I've seen from you is mouth diarrhea  :o

Oops, sorry. Unrealistic dreams and one half-baked idea that other people are already decades ahead of you on.

Development is not a competition. I bet there were people when Stephen Hawking was growing up that were like "Stupid wheelchair slut, Einstein already figured that stuff out!"

I somehow doubt it. Especially considering the fact that he wasn't diagnosed with ALS until he was 21.

Was he not into physics before that?

He already had a bachelor's degree, first-class honors, and was working on his doctorate.

You know you could look this info up on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking), right?

So you know you just proved my point? lol

Sure. You can have this "win."  ;) I'm not interested in chasing down your stoner logic to figure out what point I've just "proven."

Lol, you just trolled yourself so hard that your done with it. :D This is too funny.

ooooookaaay. Backing slowly away now....

Are you sure YOU'RE not the one that's stoned? lol At least I can handle my weed.

Yup, pretty sure. Unless the local Papa John's been adding something to their pizzas. And, you might want to re-assess your ability to handle weed.

Lol, I'm pretty sure I don't need to take weed advice from the guy that obviously hasn't learned anything new about it since health class in middle school :D

Aids in creativity?  Sure.  Helps inspire the imagination?  I'll give that to ya.  Improves reasoning ability?  Doubt it, home slice.

Luckily, there's nobody in this conversation that fits that description.

I never credited anything I'm doing to weed, It's not the weeds idea to do this stuff.

My point is that stoners CAN do these things, and that I WILL...

So I think I also just proved (that unless you are high), stoned reasoning isn't too bad... And why don't you go look up "Reasoning and Groundation", those would be empty without weed... Which kinda also proves you wrong... :D

I guess it is kinda one sided the way I'm schooling you, but you ARE still part of this conversation. Don't get down on yourself.

And now we learn that claiming something doesn't make it true! My, but today is educational for you, isn't it?

You just said "Backing away slowly" a minute ago. Are you REALLY sure you're not high? And you have completely gone off topic, you lost at trolling the facts, then lost at trolling randomly and I just don't know what you are even doing anymore, simply derailing?

Damn, and here I thought you had learned that claiming something doesn't make it true. Backsliding already. :(

I think YOU need to learn that, I keep pointing things out, while you make a statement and act like I'm just 'wrong'. Your statement above proves nothing, except that you are not only a troll, but you are a troll that has nothing left to do but troll... Nothing of value to offer, nothing you think you know that I don't, that I actually end up knowing... You're done. You don't have to leave, but just know from here on out that I know what's going on. So if you're going to troll me, you're going to have to try a little harder, or wait until you're not so drunk, or whatever your problem is right now.

I got a better idea. You go smoke another joint, and I'll go back to doing something productive with my life. Deal?

You mean troll someone else?

I can smoke a joint and talk about the future at the SAME time, but yes, please do leave so this can end and we can get back to some real talk.

I'm not stopping you. Feel free to start some real talk any time you like. 13 pages is a long time to wait, though, I don't think anyone's going to be willing to wade through all your crazy talk to get to it.

Might want to start a new thread.

How can you forget artists, creative people!? No computer will ever match the capacity of ones imagination. Maybe I am just biased but can a computer algo produce art? Interesting philosophical proposition to think about.

Yes; a computer can be programmed to display a random array of colored pixels and a person can interpret it as art.  However, if you ask the machine to reproduce the Mona Lisa in a John Kricfalusi style, you're SoL; only a person (presumably John Kricfalusi) can do that.

By extension, however, since the computer had to be programmed by a human being (or by a computer programmed by a computer programmed by a human being), a computer can never create its own art, only the art a person has programmed it to create.  Therefor, we can determine that all art is created only by human beings; even if a computer could take requests and spit out something like this (http://www.cuded.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/album_cover_art_by_ryohei_hase600_600.jpg), it would be because a human being programmed it to do so.

So can A.I. create art?  Or do people owe their talents to a higher being, if not God, but nature itself?

If you ask me, that will be the final Turing test. When an A.I. creates an original composition that I recognize as "art," I'll call it a person.

You could argue that art is the interpretation not the media, all paintings are essential just paints applied to a canvas. I think the computer mind is to logical to contemplate an illogical idea and rationalize it. I also think that computers would require emotion, maybe even soul before true creativity is accomplished. Any animal can move around paint on a canvas, not sure about a GOD but certainly nature has a huge effect, geometry is perhaps a possibility for computers to make a transition into art.

Another interesting thought is that idea that monkeys would eventually write a Shakespeare play given enough time pressing buttons at random, the same applies for pixels, inks and so on. I guess this is a little to off-topic lol.

Another interesting aspect of art creation (and I'm going to be making assumptions based on my own talents in artistry,) is that art can be highly logical and very literal.  For example, realism: to accomplish realism, you must draw/paint in a very specific way which lines up with how we view objects in the world.  It requires a lot of technical ability, and you can get away with it without any creativity whatsoever (otherwise, we could make the assumption that every photograph is a piece of art, including the photographs of me speeding past a red light once being used against me in court.)  To create a perfect reproduction of life through a pencil requires only technical ability; computers do this already, and much more efficiently.

Taking into consideration the idea of monkeys and Shakespeare, can we then define art with the requirement of creative input?  Though a set of monkeys could eventually pound out Shakespeare, because they do not understand what they're doing, we cannot assume they understand a thing they're writing about, outside of being a random assortment of key presses.  Thus, although the two copies of Shakespeare, one written by the man, and the other written by monkeys, are identical copies, we can assume one is art and the other isn't.

At what point in time would a computer be able to create art, then?  When it has motivation?  At which point, it would need to have a reason to create, not because it is programmed to, but because it wanted to.  It would have to first experience pain.  We would have to reverse-engineer the human being.  Considering that our entire lives are interpreted through a series of electrical impulses in our minds, it could be possible, if we recreate the human mind with resources outside the normal flesh and blood, to invent an artist.  I imagine it would be incredibly difficult, but I tend to believe nothing's impossible.


Imagine if you could purchase an artificial family member and never tell the difference.  Anyway, in relation to the thread, I believe there's an odd connection between an artificial person and a real one; in one aspect, you know they're machine, but in another, you know they feel.

Too much like slavery. Pass.

Edit:....and we've come full circle. :)

I didn't "forget creative people", the whole point is to open the world up FOR creative people.

With the jobs done, we are all inventors, artists, actors, mechanics and engineers.

Like a modern Athens.

So who would be our slaves?

The machines, of course.

You FINALLY understand :)

I've understood from the beginning. You have to understand something before you can properly agree or disagree with it.

I disagree.

:D, you have brilliantly displayed that you completely can't grasp this for the past few days. lol

You, sir, are the master of the oxymoron.

Fitting.

You sir, suck at trolling.

Not fitting, find a new gig.

I try to simplify our side:
Robots good, improved efficiency good.

Mining not solution for capital.

lol, mining is definitely a solution. The more people mine the more valuable coins become the more alt coins will be made. And eventually every region wil have its own coin, and everyone will be supporting their own local economy, which will be driven by the robots.

For some people, maybe. For everyone, no.

These are some... interesting logical leaps you're making here.
The first, More miners = more valuable coins, is not necessarily true. In fact, historically, hashpower follows price, not the other way around.
The second, More valuable coins = more altcoins is just plain silly.

Regional coins are a possibility. But have you thoroughly thought out how a robot-driven economy will work out?

1. Of course not for everyone, we still have engineers, inventers and things like brain surgeons until we get machines invented for that stuff (I've explained all of this to you like 30 times)

2. More miners does make coins more valuable because a. More people have coins they want to sell/use making the market just more stable in general b. More people with coins, means more transactions, which means more demand for mining

More valuable coins, means more sparked interest, and more sparked interest DOES mean more alt coins. Because people that see chances to make an awesome completely necessary coin will learn about this stuff, and without the valuable in demand coin, they would have never even thought twice about it.

3. Yes I have thought about a robot driven economy and I have been reading about how great it works out all over this very website... Bitcoin is an economy, and mining rigs are robots. If you believe in a bitcoin economy, you believe in a form of robot driven economy.

Unless you mine by doing all the block chain algorithms on your desktop calculator, lol

Oh, I see, so mining is just for the people with no other marketable skill?

You clearly don't understand supply and demand. More people with coins they want to get rid of does not increase the price.

So, people having this valuable, in demand coin will necessarily spark them to create a worthless, undesired coin. K.

Let me clear a few things up for you. Robots are workers. The word even comes from the Czech word for worker. A bitcoin miner is a specialized type of desktop calculator. Not a worker. It generates two things: Bitcoins and heat. Robots make things.

I could've sworn we've been over this.  As more people mine, the cost to mine jumps, and the less profits you make (until you're working at a deficit.)  As more altcoins exist, less businesses are guaranteed to take them (we don't even have most businesses on board with Bitcoin right now.)  Considering that robots will be doing all the work, without pay, you're better off issuing paper tokens for people to take to government-owned shops where you can get the food and other stuff you need.  It's a lot more efficient than mining; mining needs to stay specialized, limited to people who are willing to shell out the cash for the best hardware, otherwise it's a waste of energy.  It's CPU Mining Vs. ASIC, and there's only a handful of ASIC owners in the world right now.  If everyone had an ASIC, and everyone was mining, they would not be earning any profits, and even still, there would be a select few to accept them; the machines are working for free, after all, and when all jobs are taken by machine, there will be nothing to use all those coins on.

This system is not sustainable.  You may see short term highs while people slowly hop on board (meaning people will be mining at a profit), but the more popular your system gets, the worse it gets for the miners (which is everyone) until nobody can make a living mining, then we're back where we started.  I could probably write "IOU" on a piece of paper and get the same effect; it took a few seconds and some energy to write the slip, after all.  I may as well lob off chunks of my hair and use that as currency, since it takes a lot of time and energy to keep me alive to create that, too.  Since it's extremely common for people to have hair (like it would be, in this system, to have coins), it's the same effect.  I can't make a natural living through simply existing; there is no living organism which can do this, and we're no different.

Worse: The robots and the miners would be directly competing for the same limited resource. It's not often you get to see an economy designed to self-destruct.

That is all :) :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/HONDA_ASIMO.jpg/200px-HONDA_ASIMO.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASIC
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/SSDTR-ASIC_technology.jpg/220px-SSDTR-ASIC_technology.jpg

That is all.

FREEDOM

One of my favorite verses:

"Those who work their land will have abundant food, but those who chase fantasies have no sense."
                                                                             -Proverbs 12:11

Let me see if I understand what the argument is here.

1. We all get ASIC mining machines
2. We create lots of cryptocurrency coins
3. We're all rich from our cryptocurrency coins
4. We use all of our money to buy robots
5. Robots do all the work

Is that correct?

The funny thing is as we all get rich while performing the typical spiritually meaningless tasks those who manufacture and supply the robots/electronics/materials/stock/computers/exchanges etc would still earn more which would simply increase the cost of everything while continuing the same disparity of wealth. Not that I am against the OP's proposition, but if for example you create a village and fill it with only wealth people then chances are all the products/services will end up over priced and the wealthy would still feel like slaves to the wealthier, i guess the West is a live example of this concept as our idea of slavery is different to those if India, Africa and so on.

The truth is most of us in the West are not slaves physically, it is a mental form of slavery. Most of us could give up everything and go live on some isolated island in the middle of nowhere and never look back, but we "need" all those neat things that make our lives seem bearable. At least Mental slavery can be solved through many practices, we dont need robots and so on to accomplish this.

I don't chase fantasies, but I also don't have land to work. I have to work socially, because I was not given land and I am still young.

No.

1 Yes
2 Yes
3 No, you are missing many points
4 No, you are missing many points
5 Almost, but not ALL the work

The point isn't to make everyone RICH, the point is to make everyone comfortable. And eventually to eradicate the need for paper money.

And I know we are mental slaves, that's why I said "slave to the dollar".

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Here is an example of how these philosophies could begin to be applied in a REAL town

=Collin County=
When most people look at Texas politically they see Dallas, they see Austin and maybe Houston. But Mckinney and Collin county are really more important than anyone sees.
First off, it has a pretty big population of people (19th biggest in Texas) and more importantly, it has a big population of people that LEAVE when they get old enough (unless they can't afford to and stay to live with their parents, while some get apartments in town and party into their twenties)... So, that makes the primary residents of Mckinney and the surrounding suburbs older and republican, and because of the number of churches, the cities status as "dry" and the lack of nightlife forces people into a Christian lifestyle. When we were younger we used to say "You need to be 40 or extremely Christian to have fun here." So even the kids are going other places to have fun, spreading their politics and stuff. But I'm not to that yet. It is primarily Christian, Older & Republican (most of the wealth comes from oil companies, prison industry or weapons technology companies like RAYTHEON, which is the single biggest employer in the entire town, including city staff and the school district.).

So the 19th biggest population in Texas has a PRETTY solid voting status, with the exception of people who DO stay when they get older, in which case they will have more liberal, democratic, libertarian or in most cases democratic-republican or liberal-republican veiws views because of the house-to-house party and crazy police environment they were raised in. Which brings me to my next point in the importance of Mckinney and Collin county in general. The kids grow up there, and go to Dallas or Arlington or Fort Worth or Austin or Houston or Denton looking for people more similar to them, so the kids from Mckinney are in some cases important to the politics of the other political hubs of Texas.

And with all this political importance, the town runs on arrests (tax money going to privately owned jails), probation fees, court fees, tickets and basically other predatory tactics on its own citizens, with a fairly heavy focus on arresting minors. The mayor is a LAWYER (I went to school with his daughter ) But I sense a change in the politics in Mckinney and thus a change in the politics of Texas.

1st, tons of people are staying to go to community college instead of real college, because it's not a community college now it's a "real 4 year university" since UNT adopted it.
2nd, it is the hub of jails, courts and probation so everyone has to go to Mckinney, and not only learns where it is, but meets the other criminals from there and around there. And mckinney has a lot of money, which I'm guessing is appealing to criminals. And in my opinion, the police focus too much on children and aren't prepared for 30yr old meth heads with AK-47s, as proven by the 1 man assault on the police station a few years back, in which one man blew up a truck in the police parking lot and fired three weapons for 5 minutes before being shot down.
3rd, there are so many schools there, and most of them are NOT making kids republican because they are piss testing them and filling the halls with officers.
4th, Mckinney hides most of it's politics, making it seem like it's something lawyers and doctors do and not regular people. The most you see is a sign on the side of the road or in someone's yard, which means that if some new wave of politics hits Texas, they aren't prepared to fight it...

McKinney's current slogan is "Unique by Nature", I believe it should be "Et in Mckinney Ego..."

=Arcadia=
I think McKinney has the potential to be a pseudo-"heaven on Earth". It just needs to stop focusing on drawing the attention of realtors, golfers and old people, and start focusing on the comfort and needs and wants of ALL of its citizens instead of just church goers. ex: change all the signs on the highway about golf to signs about FUN, and build the water park they told us they would build in McKinney TEN YEARS AGO. Or open a new club, or a paintball place. The country club isn't even profitable, so advertising it REALLY isn't the best way to do things. I don't see why they don't turn it into a nightclub at night for the kids. They have like 2-4 locations and the support of the police force, why not go for that shit.
McKinney should adopt the philosophy "It takes a village to raise a child". We are already half way there, but the government need to make sure the children are not just educated about the curriculum, but the world around them and the politics that drive their city. And the police need to make sure they aren't arresting kids instead of teaching them.

We already have good recreational sports programs and an amazing school district, but we need more things that support not only what we believe our kids should be, but what are kids believe they can be. There should be musical programs in place to support aspiring bands, actors, politicians, communications enthusiasts, tech enthusiasts and more, and they should be available and promoted to EVERYONE. Programs that are as supportive to your choice as the FFA or BSA is to the kids that join.
=Parks=

And I think we need to get more parks and rec programs going on in McKinney. The only people that use the parks are boyscouts and stoners, so it's just empty or random parked cars most of the time. And we have some pretty big parks, like Erwin park. So even festivals and stuff could be held there, and a hundred thousand people could be there. Bike riders use the park, so maybe races and stuff too. And honestly, I think a cannabis festival would be well received by the community, since everyone I went to highschool with is 18-25 now And my school is like AAAA with like 6,000+ kids and over 1/4 mile from one end of the building to the other. So that's a lot of stoners, 1/4 or more of which probably still live in town, in the surrounding suburbs, or in the surrounding countryside.

There is a group in McKinney known as the "Crape Myrtle Trails" and I know quite a bit about it, because when we were younger my stepmom talked about how she was like an important member or something.

But there is NOTHING good about the Crape Myrtle trails. True, they plant pretty trees. But honestly, there are WAY prettier trees to be planted.

It's ok to want to plant a few Crape Myrtles, but my stepmom told me about charity dinners where they literally earn $1,000,000+ for planting crap myrtles... That's TOO many, you can't just ATTACK an ecosystem like that (that is what they were doing, they plant them on every median and every sidewalk in town). A few years ago the trees even grew these weird beetles things, it looked like scaled that started as like bark colored and turned black if I remember correctly. But my point is, this kind of things isn't normal. They build an environment for that beetle to thrive, which effected the ecosystem by bringing MASS numbers of those beetles. Now, as an example: what if that beetle attracted a certain bird, and that bird ha a better beak for suburban living the natural birds of McKinney. Like they are better at digging into the mortar between bricks or something like that. Now those Texas birds get wiped out, and what if those birds are easier prey for wolves increasing the wolf population (just a crazy example explaining how the ecosystem works), or the bird carries a disease that can be transmitted to humans.

Planting a few of each plant in various places is ok, but planting ONE plant everywhere is not ok.

We should plant different kinds of fruit trees, so that the plants are useable. We should contract farmers to plant and harvest trees on public property all over town. A portion of it goes to the feeding community centers, while the farmers keep the rest. But the city keeps up regular watering and weed maintenance as it does now. And if that project could get as much funding as the crape myrtle trails project, we could feed hundreds of families, while making the town beautiful. Instead of making it beautiful at an unknown eco-price.

*Cook-Offs

We already have a Chili cook-off, and I believe we should: 1. Make that festival bigger and more musical 2. Make more culinary festivals like it.

ex:
Carne Asada contest, after the chili contest, people can marinate meat from hunting or just purchasing, and marinate it to submit in a carne asada contest. Some people put it on fries, some on burritos, or just whatever they can think of.

Bake off, which I think a few churches already do, but why not have one at town lake and hire a few local bands.

Candy Contest, have people make home made candy and have a contest. And it could fit in well with Halloween in the square.

It's Texas, so their should just be a general "Meat" festival where it's steak, burgers and everything else. It's a suburb full of dads, they will have plenty of stuff to enter in the contest.

It's McKinney, so a Wine festival and Oktober fest is almost like "Why don't they already do that?".

There are plenty of companies in town that could submit into, or even sponsor events like this. And people in McKinney love to get out and eat shit.

And having an eating contest at any of these events would probably completely get involvement, I can think of a few "eaters" in McKinney.

*Festivals

In McKinney there is a little "historic" type stone area made to look like a Croatian village. My friends uncle was the contractor building it, so they used to have band practice in the parking garage, and now they have July fireworks events next to it.

I think they should use that area for more festivals. They should poll the community, and see how many people would be interested in different festivals. And since it is a historic type village, I suggest heritage and art festivals. Like a day where there are Irish stalls and beer, Celtic art and fried stuff and stuff for St. Patricks. And same thing but German and sausage for Oktoberfest. Then February have a Black history festival with people who speak, artists who make art and music that empower the black community. Then a Mexican heritage celebration for cinco de mayo, etc. It would really bring people together, and teach them about culture and food from different places, while letting the people that are party of those cultures show everyone their heritage.
=Innovation=

And, there should be a stage at trade days, OR trade days should be held at the football stadium in town so it is more like the fair, and therefor more desirable to go to

I think there should be a studio in McKinney, so that companies are encouraged to make their own commercials, and the children in our highschool's drama programs have something to aspire to besides MOVING.

I'm sure a few people here know what Bitcoin mining is. Our town has like 3 libraries, plus a library in every school. If they put a program in place to turn 1 library into a mining facility, the town could be WILDLY profitable.

We had one of the first 3 environmentally friendly Wal Marts in America, meaning that it was powered by wind and solar panels. If we started using the same technology on the government buildings, and especially the mining facility if that ever happens, the town could basically run for free. Then eventually it could work on equipping all houses with solar and wind attachments, to the point that it is no less common that having a toilet in your home. And Collin Count is THE richest county in Texas, so it would be the best place to start a project like that. A surplus of money and a surplus of sun.

McKinney should get murals made constantly. Every holiday, or celebration should be kept in everyone's memory by some shop owner (or school, public lot or church if that is where it is held) with a mural on a wall or section of parking lot, or some form of totem or statue/art.

This solidifies the neighborhood because they can point and say "I was part of that", as well as gives jobs to artists that may try to put their art in public illegally without an outlet such as this. And this can help us create celebrated artists that our town promotes nationally.
=AirPort=

We also have our own Airport, I really think that should be expanded as it would increase trade to and from our town, which would in turn create a wider product base for local stores (we have a crazy shopping scene, because the town square has been taken over by girls and gay dudes, which isn't a bad thing, it's really good for small businesses). And the whole thing would create more jobs because airports need people and so do stores with more products. And honestly, I don't believe that the stores in McKinney can support the population it is trying to build, because that is McKinney's number one focus and has been for years: Building houses and putting people in them. But we need more now. They did just build 3 hospitals, which is great for jobs, but an airport would just be 1,000x better. 1st, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work at an airport. 2, the airport can take you places like dallas ft worth, cutting down commute time and overall traffic on the highways from Oklahoma to Dallas.

=Media=

I believe the government of Collin county should support a studio/media program. We have a local newspaper, and a branch of UNT at our community college. So if the newpaper and county government supported a journalism program at the college, they could start a small media outlet there, then eventually evolve into a studio. Because again, the town has tons of drama programs in the highschools, but the only option is to leave after highschool for those kids. So if we expanded the journalism jobs in the city, and created a studio there would be a place for those kids to go. Because not only are there a lot of highschool drama programs, but there are photo journalism and other journalism programs, but only a small newspaper in town, and then like the Dallas Morning news to aspire to. They really need more local incentive and opportunity.

I think our town should make its own reality shows and put them online. Made has come to our school, Intervention has been on the East side and Dax Flame was in 21 Jump Street and Project X, so I don't see why the parents don't encourage the kids to make videos. It seems like the kids are doing it themselves, and with pretty bad quality. That includes me, I make my videos from my iphone and don't edit shit, but that's because I don't have support and can't afford things to get better, until I put out the shitty shit and make some money to spend on it. If we had a studio, or just a group in town that had a loan or grant to make reality shows, they could start on YouTube and I don't doubt that some of them would end up on TV. There is WAY more interesting stuff going on in McKinney than the stuff they've already put on TV. I bet the Courier Gazette could afford to do it, and Newspapers are always looking for new stuff to do.

McKinney has tons of girls obsessed with fashion, but the only real outlet is facebook until they are old enough to leave and go to Dallas, and even in Dallas the chances of them being anything but a club promoter or stripper are slim to none.

I think McKinney should have fashion programs in place. 1, a media studio for people to make costumes and wardrobe for. 2, actual fashion type organizations to hold fashion shows. 3, there should be fashion festivals, where people can show off the things they've made and sell stuff.

There are plenty of clothing companies in McKinney that need exposure like this, all they have right now is the ability to get a billboard or magazine add.

=Education=

I think there should be more field trips and the children should have more educational assemblies. I don't understand why we don't have our kids ask questions of public officials, or go to places like the town hall and see how they operate. I promise our town could handle tours, I've been in just about EVERY government building in the town, and there is NOT that much going on. Groups of 20-30 kids with a few teachers could easily maneuver around any judicial and by my guess executive government building.

Classrooms should utilize programs like AdSense and Bitcoin mining. Parents and kids should have to sign a waiver saying that students CAN use their cell phones, cameras and other devices in the classrooms of teachers that deem it acceptable.

And the teachers should use the rule to make class projects that get online support/viewers, which means the ability to share ideas nationally and internationally and collaborate. As well as earn money from views.

There should be a contract that teachers sign that allows them to keep 50% of the revenue from ads, and the other 50% goes to class projects. But they can't allow projects to steer off curriculum. Basically like helping our teachers get tips, while teaching their students with the help and collaboration of other teachers. Same with the mining machine, it would tip the teacher while putting money into the curriculum. And the schools should get to vote on when the extra money goes, because I'm sure there will be leftover money every year from the 50% that goes to projects.

The county could eventually even start its own adsense type program to promote the community through ads, while helping independent artists and classrooms thrive.

The police, health, fire and other government departments should also utilize these programs to earn extra income by creating "cops" like programs, which will also keep them honest since they have viewers.

The libraries should have public printing machines to promote free speech. They should cost money per use, like how it costs like 10 cents per page to print paper out at the Library. And I don't mean just put more printers, I mean like Xerox machines and brother machines. So that people can make large posters, write pamphlets, door hangers, mailers or t-shirts and stuff. It would increase free speech amazingly, and it would provide the need and resources to hire graphic artists in our libraries. :) And this should already exist, instead of having to go to a company like Kinko's and pay fifty cents to a dollar for a regular piece of paper with regular ink printed on it. We could even contract companies that already exist and have machines to start operating out of the libraries.

This could be a shared venture with the post office to help the post office be profitable and convenient in terms of printing lots of stuff and shipping it.

There should also be a publishing program, where you can submit writing to the library for a chance to get your book/story/biography published and stocked on the library shelves.

We could create a pretty big writers society in Collin county.
=Biodiesel=

Texas doesn't use the oil it digs up for sale, it stores the oil it gets and buys oil for cars from countries like Saudi Arabia. So I think Collin county, or at least the McKinney Independent school district should switch to Biodiesel, then a chain of gas stations should get the contract to buy corn from local farmers and start supplying biodiesel at their gas stations, as well as like a biodiesel pump at the school bus gas station. Then eventually put a biodiesel public transport program, so there are buses running on biodiesel. And that way there would be more reason for the surrounding farmers to grow corn besides making high fructose corn syrup. And used cooking oil wouldn't go to waste at all the local restaurants. And McKinney could become a big player in the "Green Movement" by opening a biodiesel company. Any town in Collin county could start a half liquor half biodiesel company, or pay a company like everclear to come into town and do it. Everyone drinks in Texas, and everyone needs to drive no matter where you are, so it can't fail.

=Churches=

There are WAY too many churches in McKinney, I even helped build one with a volunteer organization, and there was another one across the street that was already small, shitty and had no attendants. So I think we need to go to each church and offer them contracts to not be churches any more, because you can't mix church and state. So we find churches that need funding, and pay them to be "community centers" and we have them choose a specific goal, like: feeding people and kids before/after school, teaching people about specific things (finance, rehab, media, politics, philosophy/theology, etc), clothing people, housing people/shelteres (most churches in McKinney are bigger than the one shelter I know exists in the whole town), planting trees, cleaning roads, public law libraries, public computer building (completely dedicated to computers instead of books) etc. That way the church employees can get a government salary, offer their congregation jobs instead of a chance to tithe, and still use their non-profit status to accept donations and put together events and even Sunday celebrations.

And instead of being thrown in prison with violent offenders, burglars, rapists and drug manufacturers. Drug users should be sentenced to volunteer time as part of these congregations, and not put in cages at all. And they should be put on probation so that any violations can still result in short jail sentences or extended time, as incentive not to skip time with the congregation.

=People's Police=

A lot of people know this, but I'm sure there are people that don't. But most jails are privately owned, meaning the government pays the salaries of all the employees, and government sanctioned officers are used as guards, but the prison is owned by a private company or family. So basically, the prison is paid YOUR taxes based on how many beds it fills, and prisoners do free labor to keep it clean and up to code, and to make sure the guards don't "have too much on their plate" :lol: . But McKinney is a prison, lawyer, judge run city (and Collin County is run in the same manner). And I think that needs to change. About 1/4 of the juvenile detention center could be made into something else. Such as some form of work program that supports the community instead of just keeping our jails clean (the juvy is right by the county jail, so it wouldn't be hard to transfer workers) or even as I suggested for the libraries: a mining program, so that the town can earn money on its own. And I PROMISE more than 1/4 of those kids don't belong in jail.


McKinney's police force is out of control, but there is no simple solution. Plus there needs to be a decrease in prosecution, while not leaving a vacuum of lawyers and officers without jobs.

So I propose a counter measure to the police department, a "people's police". It will start as a government program, similar to the DA's office, but it will hire barred lawyers as "educators" and aspiring lawyers, or true "officers of the law". They will be on call at all times like the regular police department, but the difference is:

They are armed with law books (and only concealed weapons if they get personal licenses for personal protection)

They are meant to be called as "legal mediators" or a 3rd party witness. Ex: The police are harassing you or on your property illegal, these are the people you call. There is a murderer in your house, and you may have to kill him but want everyone to know you killed him in self defense. Call the police, then call these guys.

They are basically an "on scene legal department" so that in court it's not "You against the cops" it's You, the cops and a 3rd party sharing what happened.

Eventually it would be absorbed into the police department once it started being less "police state" than it is right now and they would just send them out as teams, or in separate cars like the ambulance and fire trucks do.

And the police would always want to beat these guys, so response time would be WAY faster.

And to decrease the number of arrests and prosecutions in order to make this new "People's Police" force viable, they should announce unwritten "codes" to the police department, asking that they focus on violent offenders, and dangerous drug manufacturers. And put less focus on arresting children and people growing/using drugs that are available from nature. Only charge people for things if they are already doing something BAD, if they are a child or doing something like possessing a joint, there should be no charge levied.

Now, if a guy is pissing on the wall of a place of business or there are reports of a gunshot and you find a joint, arrest him for it. But a few kids are sitting in their apartment stairwell, or at a park, or in the woods, or a car parked in a driveway smoking a joint. Break it up, but no one needs to go to jail.

=Welfare=

We need to have better welfare for regular citizens and veterans.
We aren't that big of a tourist attraction, yet we have like 4 pretty large hotels in town. One of those places should start getting government funding, and start housing families & Veterans. It would be bigger than all the government housing that is currently in town.

And veterans should be paid to work there if they want.

Not a word of that is actually about bitcoin mining, is it? (I'm going to be honest, I stopped reading at "Crape Myrtle")

Yes it is.

Could you pull out the section of it that is? I'm not slogging through all that bitching and moaning about your community.

If I just pull out the Bitcoin part, you won't understand how it all works in the community, and you will argue semantically, about only a section of what I wrote... So, I'd rather you just read the whole thing if you plan on replying with any relevance.

Nevermind, Ctrl-F works just as well. So, to sum up:

Public services should run mining rigs to pay for themselves.

Really think that will work, chief?

And there are parts where it is obvious mining machines would easily fit, even if it is not mentioned.

Nope, that's not even "basically" it.

OK, then trim out all the crap about how you hate your town, and I'll read it. As it stands, it's just a bunch of "Other people should do this, and do that, and this isn't right."

That's not what it says it all. It sounds like you are reading it with a certain tone in mind, and that is what you are hearing instead of the actual words I have written.

The whole thing goes together, there is no "part" to trim out. It is a single article. If you don't want to read, wait till you are less drunk.

Stone cold sober, chief. And the word "should" appears 41 times, making it the 14th most common word in that text. For reference, McKinney only appears 31 times, and people 34. (Bitcoin appears twice, and mining only 6 times.)

Of those instances of "should," by the way, 16 of them are "should be" (the second most common phrase in that text), 7 are "there should," and 4 are "should have."

3 - what are the many points I am missing?
4 - what are the many points I am missing?
5 - I understand

The word "should" is because as you should remember, these are PLANS.
None of this stuff is in place, it is plans to expand what the town of McKinney already has in place.

Please learn what context is before talking to me :)

2. (I know I didn't mention that you missed this one, but you did) We don't just make a bunch of coins, we also make uses for coins.
Ex: Make a coin for your town, make a coin for your Xbox Live clan, make a coin for your family and use it to teach your kids about finance.

3. We don't get rich from the coins, so not only did you miss points, you were just blatantly wrong in your guess. It just creates a system like the USD and Peso, but for smaller groups instead of countries, making it so that the group can exchange debt between one another. It has nothing to do with getting rich, just getting everyone on the same level. Or at least get everyone off the bottom level, so we can just hire immigrants and stop worrying about the border (I also have drug policies that could be beneficial to America).

I can continue if you would like, that is not all you missed.

4. We don't buy robots, companies & individual inventors specialize robots to fir their needs and humans continue to do do jobs robots can't do, like: Invent, be artistic, philosophize, repair robots, govern, act, organize groups, etc.

Yes, that's my point. It's all "other people should", not "I plan to." And don't you think that the plans should be a little more centered on bitcoin mining, instead of murals, festivals, and trees, given that your plan to get to utopia centers around bitcoin mining?

WRONG. As I said before, that is YOUR fault for reading with that tone. That is not what was written.
These are the policies for a 2017 campaign.

An it DOES NOT center around bitcoin mining. Even the original philosophy of "let the machines do the work" is not primarily about bitcoin. Bitcoin is just the part that starts the profiting from robots (since they are robots that make money), it is in no way the "center" it is simply a "piece".

Then don't you think you should lead off with that? Or even just include it?

Because if you don't say that, preferably at the start, the reader is inevitably going to take it exactly the way I did. Especially when you lead off with a lot of bitching, pissing, and moaning about how old and christian the community is.

Nope, this thread isn't about the Collin County campaign, it's about the philosophy "Let the machines do the work".

I didn't piss an moan, I mentioned once that they WERE. Otherwise you wouldn't have even known about that section of the population.

You are just willfully dense, even as someone blatantly educates you :lol:

Then why did you clutter it up with all the rest of the stuff?

To show how the philosophy fits into a real world society.

Why do you take everything in giant circles? Can't you just read with intent to understand?

Well, you didn't need to include all the rest of that, just the parts that actually show how it would fit into a real society. Like the library running mining machines to pay for it's operations costs. The rest of the stuff, with murals and festivals and whatnot are wasted time.

This isn't just about mining, you need to get that through your head. Mining is just a PEICE. It is THE piece that allows ANYONE to own a machine that earns them money. But it is not the only part. It is just A part.

There are plenty of ways for someone to have a niche in this proposed society without having or wanting a bitcoin mining machine.

Even bitcoin itself isn't just about mining. Bitcoin still includes real world shop owners, website owners, consumers, vendors and more.

That still doesn't explain how more festivals and a mural celebrating every successful shit the mayor takes fit into "Letting the machines do the work."

By bringing people together, making a demand for stalls and artists, making a demand for small business, making a demand for more citizens/coins, making a demand for more jobs/machines, making the demand for more inventors and developers, making the future possible.

That would be true in any economy, not just a Bitcoin one. What's special about your plan?

We have festivals here all the time; they don't do any of those things.

you missed my whole point. I mentioned that stuff to show how bitocin mining is NOT the only thing that needs to be mentioned. Because you asked why I added all the other stuff.

And the difference about MY plan, is the government becomes a profitable entity that provides REAL service to its community, while working towards a fully paid-employed society. Which is the FIRST step in the application of working towards a fully unemployed society. First, everyone needs to be accepted into a part of the society. Then you work towards making everyone smarter, and making machines to do labor.

Actually, the machines don't have to do ALL the work, only the work that nobody wants to do.

Festivals DO do those things. They promote the small businesses and booster clubs in your community, while earning the city money through the sale of stall space. And giving exposure to local bands and artists.

You just don't SEE it.

Exactly. That's a way better way to say what I've been trying to say. I've been listing specific JOBS that will still be left. But that is a better way to put it that incorporates everything.

OP makes me  ;D .
There are several ideas in play here. The human need to do things, Crowley's True Will, Kropotkin's Toiler, as sharply opposed to Marx's proletariat and infrastructure.
People should grow food (FUCK MONSANTO). If that's their bag.. Or do art, build things, join open sourcey guilds, trade cool junk ... whatever. I take it on very well backed up faith that all these things will happen without profit motive, because of the innate creative spark, specifically true will and the evolutionary principle of mutual aid.
Then we have the remainder of tasks. We can collectively call those uncreative, unrewarding tasks toil. Toil must be automated. It is imperative on a humanitarian level. This cannot be debated. The specific way to automate toil is a matter of creativity.
Trade IS the world going round, currency facilitates trade.
Understanding these ideas in the context of a pervasive Capitalist empire requires a lot of intellectual spinning what if backflips, but its worth it. It requires that the global south and the third world be allowed freedom and unfettered access to technology and education. It also requires that religion on a mammoth scale be taken over by sound and culturally generated philosophy.
Im not advocating global gentrification or universal affluence- these things ae overrated. I'm advocating that the Toiling class be elevated from very specific kinds of oppression into the status of a respected human person.

Then maybe that should have been the focus of your post?

Just a thought.

I agree. It shouldn't even be a debate. Labor should be automated and people should be left to do what they want. And for some people ranching and farming are goals, not tasks. So the world would still be ok.

And also agreed with globalization. We don't need a one world government and the UN should almost be disbanded. OR every country should be allowed to come in an take a seat and fight their stance.

Very good point. Let's say I take desktop printer (a fantastic example of a robot) and tell it to continuously print the blockchain.
Do you mean to imply that there is no work done until the ink hits the page? Let me remind you that all of this is binary code at its very heart- physical objects changing states, moving in sequence.

Who exactly is paying for these festivals again?  We already have festivals; are you saying they should be mandatory?  If not, why bring it up?  If people want to have festivals, they'd have them.  They need no direction from any higher power/scripture to make these happen.

Also, sources?  I know it's a lot easier to just take everything you say as fact, but, if you could link a few articles saying that local bands + fun time = surge in business unrelated to either, that'd be super.

That WAS the focus of my post, lol.

There is no debate on whether or not this is a good thing.  The debate revolves around how we're going to do it.  Please don't tell me you've still yet to see Zeitgeist; believe me, somebody's thought this up before.

It does not just "generate" bitcoins from thin air, it earns them for doing digital labor.

If there weren't miners the work would be done by human coders, or some form of macros. Which all still do work.

No one person or the actual government has to pay for the festivals. You have a lot to learn.

As a government you plan an event. You find sponsors in the community that are related to the topic of the festival AND you sell space for stalls up to a year before the event even happens (as they do for the Denver 4/20 rally). That money funds the event, sales (like permits for glow stick sellers and cotton candy guys walking around) and more sponsors turn a profit.

I've never seen zeitgeist. And I don't care if someone else thought of it first, they aren't here or on any other forum I'm on, so I haven't seen them talking about it, so I made my own discussions.

Nothing I've said has to do with being the "first". It's all just about how to get it done.

Which is what you JUST said the debate is supposed to be about.

Pity it was buried in all the bullshit about murals and festivals and myrtle trees.

Which is all completely relevant.

Too bad you have to cry so much because you read something.

:D
No.

Yes. I already explained how to the guy with the anime avatar. I know reading makes you cry, but if you did a little more of it you would see that everything is explained.

Yes, I read your explanation. (His name is Mike, btw, you can find that right above the picture. I know paying attention makes your brain hurt, but if you do it, you don't look like an idiot)
That explanation did not tie in, in the least, to "Let the Machines do the Work." Come on, man, stay on topic.

Yes it did. Try paying better attention when you read it this time, ass-hat. Or do you need me to get a quote and explain it for you?

Oh, please do. And insult me more. That makes your argument sound much more convincing.

Insults and arguments?

First off it wasn't an insult it was a suggestion (pay more attention and read before replying, seriously).

And this isn't an argument. I'm simply displaying my stance, and explaining it in detail when asked. If there is an argument here, it's all on the other end.

"Ass-hat" isn't an insult? My, but your thanksgiving dinners must be colorful.

In other words, you are making an argument.


Try to keep up.

Nope. I am stating a plan and a set philosophy. Not presenting a case, or pleading anything....

YOU are arguing with what I say. I am just saying what I believe. You don't have to be here, that's all your choice. I'm fine with it, but just know that I'm going to continue to point this stuff out if you continue to go off track and get semantic. lol.

Let me know when you're actually going to explain anything.

None of those are the intent. The intent is simply to inform. Not convince anyone of anything, or persuade anyone to do anything.

The goal is simply to post an article to inform people about the philosophy of "Let the machines do the work"

Then the second goal was to inform people about the 2017 campaign plan, which would apply that philosophy.

In no way are we trying to alter anyone's thinking. If these articles altered your outlook, it had nothing to do with the intent with which it was written. Unless you consider "educating people" a form of "persuasive intent".

Let me know when you have a real question.

Oh, that's right....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox6jSkk0W1A

Let me remind you:

What is that YouTube video of?

And why did you remind me of one of MANY times you were wrong. I didn't need a reminder, lol.

You.
Apparently you do... Feel free to explain at any time here.

I already did explain. And as I asked like 10-20 posts ago... Would you like a quote and explanation for my explanation?

And as I responded to that post, YES!

God damn, it's like pulling chicken teeth.

That is not how you responded. You responded with troll bullshit. It was probably while you were crying about being called an ass-hat. I'm getting the quote now.

All of this earns money for small business and the government, which in turn allows for the purchase of robots or bitcoin miners. Which is the beginning of the "let the machines do the work" taking over. Ex: Automated DMV (what are they really even doing besides telling you if you have the right stuff, which a machine could easily figure out, and ONE or two people could be staffed to watch the machines and help people out. Kinda like an arcade.)

Explained. I can't believe you couldn't figure that out yourself.

And now, It seems I need to remind you of this:
Hmm... Nope, not "troll bullshit," clearly a request for you to explain.

And why was this not in the first post, instead of all the bitching about the golf course?

Are you just incapable of focusing?

Why do you expect EVERY point to be the first post. Just READ and stop bitching.

Because you started the post with this:
I kinda expected there to be some things about letting the machines do the work.

There was tons of stuff about that. Are you so drunk that you forgot we are specifically talking about festivals now?
It's not my fault that you weren't able to deduce that the extra income projects I suggest could be used to mine coins and make robots. It's the whole point of the discussion, why wouldn't you figure that out? Especially when it was mentioned in the SAME post/article, just in a different section of that post/article..

Just because each and every category didn't say "and then some money goes to machines", you had a problem working through it? Wow, lol.

Festivals?
I thought you were talking about automated DMVs?

And just because you can't get through life without chemical assistance, doesn't mean everyone needs it. I'm quite sober, I assure you.

Nope, try to keep up. That was an answer to your question about how festivals are tied to letting the machines do the work. The DMV was just an example of a byproduct. In no way was it the "topic" we were on. lol.

Then this is WAY sadder now. Are you still in Highschool? That would redeem you/make sense.

Yes, and then I asked why you didn't include that information in the original post, instead of whining about golf courses. Would you like me to quote that? I know how terrible your short term memory is.

And it's apparently so bad that you don't remember that we're actually talking about how crappy your "example" was. I could have done without the campaign speech.

And I said you cant just expect everything to be in the first post, all you can do is not cry about it. But you obviously can't handle that.

I can indeed. If you're trying to show how a system will work, you should probably explain the system, yeah?

I did explain the system. I just didn't say "and some money goes to machines" in places that it was obvious. I explained the machines in places where it wasn't blatantly clear that machines could be afforded, because this is not "how we FINISH the let the machines do the work program", this is BEFORE we ever start inventing machines. This is how the machines START doing the work.

The later parts of the philosophy WERE actually explained in the VERY first post. So I don't even see why you are complaining when everything you are looking for has been presented to you clearly. lol.

Where it would be obvious to you is not necessarily where it would be obvious to someone who isn't in your head. You have to explain those things. And you can't force people to slog through a bunch of complaining before getting to where you actually start talking about how things could be implemented. At least, not if you actually want them to read what you're writing.

No I don't have to explain those things, the things I have explained will take one or more terms to complete. I have no intention of forcing the future of these plans on a community, I will slowly present options for the future, as I am doing now. I'm not going to ask any person or group to change EVERYTHING they do. Just change in the slightest, so that the things they already do are more communal, profitable and progressive.

I think you may be confusing us with the voters in McKinney. (hint: We're not.)

Nope, I just KNOW that you are the public. And I'm not going to present my plans to the public as if I want to over run a town with robots. I want to apply basic parts of the philosophy into a REAL community, as I explained the post was before I even posted it. Then see where it goes from there.

I plan on spending tons of time in Mexico and Africa, so that could end up just being a 4 year thing, to give back to my home. Plus I plan on giving other people the power, I will act more like a PAC. So the town can do whatever it wants after.