Bitcoin Forum
May 25, 2024, 05:10:27 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 [53] 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 ... 118 »
1041  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Algorithmically placed FPGA miner: 245MH/s/chip and still rising on: May 24, 2012, 03:01:26 PM
With ASICs it will do same mess BTW Smiley lots of wires for round expander Smiley + lots of clock problems.

With (fully custom) ASICs, however, you can just match your exact routing needs with wires, which should take care of the routing problems.
I'm certainly not an expert on that area, but I'd expect the overhead of intermediate result storage (in a rolled design) to outweigh the routing overhead (in an unrolled deisn).
As I stated above already a rolled design might still be useful to increase yield by containing defects into smaller functional units.

Thats only if you get real ASIC. SASIC still screws you the same way since its just a hardwired version of the FPGA.
1042  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: DiabloMiner GPU Miner (LP, BFI_INT, async nw, multipool, 79xx GCN) on: May 24, 2012, 02:54:20 PM
Update: Everyone effected by the problem, try the new build.

The new build works well, thanks! What was the issue?

Side note: I can now use a worksize of either 128 or 256 on OS X 10.7.4 and notice a small increase in hashrate over -w 64. May be worth mentioning in the OP instructions. I assume it's because of (one of?) the OpenCL updates Apple has pushed out.

FINALLY THEY FIXED IT! HOLY CRAP APPLE, IT ONLY TOOK TWO YEARS!

Also, the issue on AMD was AMD interprets the specification differently than I do. It costs basically nothing to fix it, and on GCN its measurably nothing.
1043  Economy / Securities / Re: Motion Passed! Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract! Cognitive on [GLBSE] on: May 24, 2012, 02:52:46 PM
[...] Investing (I wrote "Incesting" at first - Idunno if that was really unintentional) in other mining companies seems a little cannibalistic and unconfident.

I own nearly 2/5 of Cognitive

Investing the funds back in your CD is a bit incestuous too!  Grin Kluge invests in Cognitive. Cognitive invests in Kluge.

In case anyone misunderstands, I'm just stirring.  Wink A lot of big listed companies have cross holdings. I'm not currently a Cognitive investor, but I think BDK is as good a place as any for funds not immediately required.

Clearly Kluge and Cognitive both should invest in DMC Wink

For what it's worth -- when I look at a mining company to invest in one of the big things is how they use the capital they already have and the capital they have raised. Of course a startup like DMC is different, but if a mining company with existing hashpower issues funds and ends up buying and holding assets of another miner over a long term basis, while this does in fact reduce risk it lowers the return on capital because the miner is paying another miner to mine and that second miner has to be profitable before paying out.

So what I like to see in a miner is that they use the capital they are given to do what they said they would do. Now, if someone has 100 bitcoins left over from buying a single, no one said they have to let the shares sit there. But it's a little alarming to see mining companies buying up shares of each other and then using that income to pay dividends on existing shares. In that case, what about buying back the shares so the existing shares are backed entirely by the GHash of the farm?

Doing that is what I would consider as the natural course of operation for any miner issuing shares for expansion.

Not trying to tell anyone what to do just giving a suggestion.

Well, thats the thing. DMC is different, and I'm just holding the bonds as a way to make money not sit. Buying small scale hardware just isn't worth it, and buying hardware now that 28nm could be here in 6 months isn't worth it either. Paying the premium isn't so bad: small scale purchases plus the wait of shipping plus the cost of residential electricity, I'm going to be in the lower 0.50s of mh/$, and the bonds in the long term are going to be putting me in the upper 0.40s. Its not that big of a difference.
1044  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What should I buy with $100 worth of BTC? on: May 24, 2012, 05:51:10 AM
Give me some ideas.  Cheesy

100 shares of Diablo Mining Company https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.0
1045  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation on: May 24, 2012, 05:50:24 AM
Because it seems very unlikely now that anyone is going to get their money back, I am still offering mining bond swaps for popular bonds on GLBSE in exchange for DMC shares.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.0

~2/3rds of a BTC in bonds for 1 BTC of DMC.
1046  Economy / Securities / Re: Motion Passed! Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract! Cognitive on [GLBSE] on: May 24, 2012, 03:57:44 AM
[...] Investing (I wrote "Incesting" at first - Idunno if that was really unintentional) in other mining companies seems a little cannibalistic and unconfident.

I own nearly 2/5 of Cognitive

Investing the funds back in your CD is a bit incestuous too!  Grin Kluge invests in Cognitive. Cognitive invests in Kluge.

In case anyone misunderstands, I'm just stirring.  Wink A lot of big listed companies have cross holdings. I'm not currently a Cognitive investor, but I think BDK is as good a place as any for funds not immediately required.

Clearly Kluge and Cognitive both should invest in DMC Wink
1047  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Algorithmically placed FPGA miner: 245MH/s/chip and still rising on: May 24, 2012, 01:27:10 AM
You have all the clues... Turn on your head and just guess using data you have - print screen from PlanAhead - I certify that it is correct one... Try placing some BRAM and watch your timings... Why would you ask then ?
I'm asking because I'm not fully up-to-speed on possible space-time tradeoffs on the current Xilinx platforms. When I worked on them professionally we had the information about the routing and bitstream format available directly from Xilinx (maybe under NDA, I'm not sure, it was years ago).

I've also remember the comments from a poster who implemented the bitcoin hashers on Virtex-6 and quick-and-dirty solution was to use DSP48s for some fraction of the adders in SHA-256 mixing steps.

In theory at least it should be possible to fill every BRAM with multiple copies of the constants and use those constants at least in those hashing cells that are close to the BRAMs. As far as I understand your design you currently have just one class/macro of hashing cell, but have plans on implementing another class/macro to fill out the space that currently remains unused.

Overall, I'll venture to guess that the ultimate Spartan-6 bitstream will use the sea-of-hashers concept and the hashers will be a heterogenous mixture: close-to-DSP48, close-to-BRAM and far-from-DSP-and-BRAM. I occasionally talk to my friends who do digital design and they always mention "don't leave any FPGA resource unused, even at the expense of partially mangling the original algorithm".

I guess the ultimate way to express all the above is that the design space tradeoffs are multidimensional space of clock-freq*number-of-gates*time-to-market.

Thats pretty much my analysis of this too. Everything that can lead to faster hashing is on the table no matter how insane or ugly.
1048  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Algorithmically placed FPGA miner: 245MH/s/chip and still rising on: May 24, 2012, 12:01:38 AM
Finally I would say that implementing FPGA design mostly about placement and routing... Do not even start trying it, if you are not prepared to waste weeks figuring all of that things, or use only simple designs, when you have about clocks 2-3 times smaller than chip's maximums... designs @ 50 - 100 Mhz would be easy....

I completely agree. I currently have the most optimized OpenCL kernel for GPUs out there, and the most recent version took me 2 weeks of 6-8 hour a day fiddling to get it done, after 1+ year of working on previous versions.

FPGA design is about 2-3 times harder.
1049  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Algorithmically placed FPGA miner: 245MH/s/chip and still rising on: May 23, 2012, 11:45:07 PM
This is most likely due to the Spartan6's awful long distance routing fabric,
This isn't Spartan's fault. This is a property of any modern FPGA: most of the delay and energy loss occurs in the routing fabric. So the easiest way to speed up the design is to minimize the demand on routing resources.

I was always perplexed why everyone here was focusing on unrolling the combinatorial logic. After gaining some experience with the currently available EDA tool suites for FPGA it became obvious: they make the place and route of repetitive designs very difficult.

The "sea of tight hashers" approach will probably be also beneficial for the future ASIC designs, although not by such a wide margin.

Does anyone know if bitfury's design stores the SHA-256 constants in BRAMs or has them spread over through the SLICEs?

In a completely unrolled design, there are no long lines.
The start vector is fed in on the left side, then the calculations percolate down to the right, and at the right a "matching" circuit determines if a "golden nonce" was found. There is no feedback from the right side to the left side.
Thus, while I do think that Bitfury's approach is EASIER (as one only has to worry about a few hundred wires and their associated delays, and not tens of thousands), I fail to see why it is inherently faster. I don't think it is inherently faster.
Maybe the Xilinx router goofs up wires that would be short and local and sends them the long way like a crooked cab driver an out-of-town tourist. But, to reiterate, a fully unrolled miner does not involve a feedback from the right side to the left side.

Theres a small difference, though. There technically is enough room to fit 2 full hashes on a Spartan 6, but due to how the leftover space is arranged, it probably will never fit (so eldentyrell fit 1 and a half). However, a shitload of tiny rolled engines would easily fit into weirdly shaped unused space. I think someone did the math and said they're almost at the equiv of 2 full hashes.
1050  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: DiabloMiner GPU Miner (LP, BFI_INT, async nw, multipool, 79xx GCN) on: May 23, 2012, 03:16:42 PM
For me it is now double spacing instead of triple spacing.

That wasn't the bug I was talking about. That can only be fixed by going back and time and shooting whoever invented the UNIX console: DURR HURR LETS MAKE A VIRTUAL ON SCREEN TYPEWRITER, NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW
1051  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Algorithmically placed FPGA miner: 245MH/s/chip and still rising on: May 23, 2012, 03:02:30 PM
Well, the device itself (GPU, FPGA) does 2 sha256 rounds of 64 in length.
However, there is a VERY simple optimisation of that to remove 8 rounds
(4 at the beginning of the 1st and 4 at the end of the 2nd) that is done by GPUs (and most? FPGAs?)
(i.e. a 6.25% gain) that is not available with this at all.
(so you also need to subtract 6.25% from any gain)
Maybe that is what he is referring to?

That is already "subtracted" from the results, and apparently both the MH/s and MH/J are still better for the rolled version. This is most likely due to the Spartan6's awful long distance routing fabric, which means that keeping things very close to each other pays off (which is one reason why 85 small, 64-clocks-per-hash cores together are faster than just three 2-clocks-per-hash cores, you can just clock them at much higher frequencies, and you can utilize more area on the chip).

Thats an interesting hack. Thats exactly the same reason why GPUs unroll the entire thing, just so the in registers are kept in registers instead of pushed back to local or global RAM.
1052  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: DiabloMiner GPU Miner (LP, BFI_INT, async nw, multipool, 79xx GCN) on: May 23, 2012, 02:53:48 PM
Someone has confirmed the new build fixed it.
1053  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: DiabloMiner GPU Miner (LP, BFI_INT, async nw, multipool, 79xx GCN) on: May 22, 2012, 08:23:16 PM
Update: Everyone effected by the problem, try the new build.
1054  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation on: May 22, 2012, 03:50:37 PM
As a note, until all of this is resolved, I'm still offering bond swaps for DMC stock to help people get back on their feet with their investments.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg901042#msg901042
1055  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Cairnsmore2 - What would you like? on: May 22, 2012, 02:23:02 AM
I agree with a modular design that can be sold and then upgraded or added to. The $15,000 BFL entry point is just focking stupid and actually it's bullshit because it kills the democratic/decentralized component of mining. You are now completely pushing out small scale miners and any form of ingenuity. This $15,000 bullshit is just a money box and will be worth .50 if bitcoin goes to shit. It's the nuclear weapon of bitcoin, once it exists you just up the ante too much and screw everyone who can't afford one.

If you guys can produce a 4-5 Gh/s base product which could be upgraded to 20-25 with additional modules added to the unit over time that would be ideal.

Please beat out BFL so we can piss on their poor business practices and customer service.  Mining is speculative enough without being forced to put out your money for months in advance and then still get delayed.

OTOH, that $15k entry point means nothing if they're getting that high of a mh/$. That said, for a large scale farm, a $5k box or a $15k box, there is little inbetween. Especially since they've already sold like 25 of them and no one even has one yet.
1056  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Whos Achronix and why do they have a 22nm 1.1m LUT chip? on: May 21, 2012, 08:23:09 PM
Is BFL obsolete already ?

Arguably they were obsolete before they even came out. BFL has been purposely finding solutions that are very cheap per mhash, not highest efficiency, and generally thats been done with hardware no one wanted anymore.
1057  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Whos Achronix and why do they have a 22nm 1.1m LUT chip? on: May 21, 2012, 04:58:50 AM
Achronix was founded in 2004 by researchers at Cornell University who wanted to push the performance limits of FPGAs and change this estimated $3bn market, challenging the market leaders Xilinx and Altera.

FPGAs are, as the name suggests, malleable and can be rejiggered to change their basic functions in ways that an ASIC cannot. It might take $30m or $40m to develop an ASIC to do a particular job — say, support the Ethernet or InfiniBand protocols — and if you make a mistake, you cannot erase and go back.

For very high volume products — with hundreds of thousands to millions of units where the cost per unit has to be low — you want an ASIC. But in places where you need a chip that might only require thousands to tens of thousands of units to satisfy an entire market, an FPGA, while more expensive to buy, is better because it is less expensive to make and is correctable in a way that an ASIC is not.

According to Greg Martin, a spokesman for the FPGA maker, Achronix can compete with Xilinx and Altera because it has, at 1.5GHz in its current Speedster1 line, the fastest such chips on the market. And by moving to Intel's 22nm technology, the company could have ramped up the clock speed to 3GHz.

By the way, the goal is to bring the cost of that 1 million LUT FPGA down to around $400 a pop when they start shipping in the fourth quarter of 2011. FPGAs sell for $1,000 and higher today, depending on features.

So, someone please answer me: Why is there not an Achronix FPGA sitting on my desk mining at like 1 ghash on a single chip on like 10 watt?
1058  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Algorithmically placed FPGA miner: 245MH/s/chip and still rising on: May 21, 2012, 03:51:52 AM

OH SHI-
1059  Bitcoin / Hardware / Whos Achronix and why do they have a 22nm 1.1m LUT chip? on: May 21, 2012, 03:49:59 AM
http://www.achronix.com/products/speedster22ihd.html
http://www.achronix.com/products/speedster22ihd/hd-summary.html

I wonder what the approximate mh/w here is.
1060  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Cairnsmore2 - What would you like? on: May 21, 2012, 03:39:59 AM
BTW, re programmable VRMs. You're right, Yohan, they're expensive.

So, what about just having a jumper that we can change to swap out some of the power circuitry (resistors, etc) so that it'll lower (Spartan 6 example voltages) from 1.2 to, say, 1.0 and cut the clock rate just as much (assuming FPGAs are stable at low voltages, I have no experience with this on FPGAs, only on CPUs and GPUs).
Pages: « 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 [53] 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 ... 118 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!