I just ran these numbers in another thread, this proves why I need to focus on green energy production: Using the calculator at http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php using 1.5m diff, $5.00 BTC prices, $0.103 per KWH BFL MiniRig is 25200 mhash @ 1250 watts for $15,295, 1.64 mh/$, 20.16 mh/w Enterpoint Cairnsmore1 is 800 mhash @ 40 watts for $640, 1.25 mh/$, 20 mh/w BFL single is 832 mhash @ 80 watts for $600, 1.38 mh/$, 10.40 mh/w Lancelot is 500 mhash @ 25 watts for $500, 1 mh/$, 20 mh/w BTCFPGA ModMiner is 800 mhash @ 40 watts for $1070, 0.74 mh/$, 20 mh/w ZTEX 1.15y is 850 mhash @ 38 watts for $1359, 0.62 mh/$, 22.36 mh/w FPGA Mining X6500 rev3 is 400 mhash @ 17.20 watts for $580, 0.68 mh/$, 23.25 mh/w GPU mining is 2700 mhash @ 1050 watts @ $2600 for mobo, cpu, mem, psu, 4x 7970s, 1.03 mh/$, 2.57 mh/w BFL MiniRig's peak profit is at 57 months at $22222.48, 145% return Cairnsmore1 peak profit is at 57 months at $544.26, 84% return BFL single's peak profit is at 47 months at $490.04, 82% return Lancelot's peak profit is 57 months at $243.54, 48% return Modminer's peak profit is at 57 months at $119.61, 11% return X6500's peak profit is at 60 months at $25.78, 4% return 1.15y's peak profit is at 60 months at -$75.37, 5% loss GPU mining's peak profit is at 24 months at -$917.51, 35% loss Interesting calculations here, but I don't think I understand how you came about all of it. What exactly do you mean by "peak profit," and how is that calculated? Apparently you are making some predictions about profitability, but I'm not sure exactly what those are. You just type the numbers into the calculator. The only thing manual is peak profit, where you keep adding months to the calculator until the "Net profit first time frame" field starts going down instead of up (this is where diff+electricity prices cross from profitable into unprofitable). Those numbers don't completely apply to DMC because if we pay nothing for power prices, there is no peak profit, it just slows down over long periods of time. |
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hmm this is strange, after i restarted the miner it has no cpu usage in the beginning, but an increased memory usage of 118 mb and 115 mb.
After like 3 minutes the 5850 Miner was again at 25% cpu usage.
i also noticed that it was the diablo miner for the 5850 who was using 25% cpu usage and the 7870 was at 0%.
But as i was starting both up, i noticed that at the 5850 there is an line "BFI_INT patching enable ...." and on the 7870 it isnt.
this is my starting the D1 is the 7870
start DiabloMiner-Windows.exe -o localhost -r 9332 -D 1 -f 120
start DiabloMiner-Windows.exe -o localhost -r 9332 -D 2 -f 1
EDIT: chaning the f 1 to f 10 did the trick!
thanks for your help guys!
Theres most of your problem. Windows has a false CPU usage reading bug when programs sleep for very long times while interacting with device APIs. DiabloMiner wasn't actually using that much CPU time. |
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which is the command to tell the miner to use only a certian cpu core?
Thats a trick question, right? DiabloMiner uses 1% cpu or less typically. |
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... Again, I just said you can get a 0.5C/W or lower heatsink if you go large or loud enough.... But no one wants to do that  The whole idea about FPGAs is that they are smaller, cooler, less noiser than GPUs. Even if you achieve 2.7C/W top power draw shouldn't be more than 17W, commercial grade chips, 25W industrial grade chips at 25C ambient temp. Compared to 40W of one chip in BFL Single is damn small value. And we have to remember that propagation delays thru silicon raises when temperature raise. More power draw, faster MHz limit = less MH/s. There is somwhere a sweet spot and it's defenitevely below 17W thanks to high Rthjc... Are we agreed? Yes, definitely. I wouldn't want to get nearly that close to the limit. That being said, if someone like eldentyrell releases a bitstream that does 250MH/s on an LX150 but pushes power consumption up to 15W, there are options out there that might be worthwhile to deal with that.  Thats up from 200 mhash, right? I wonder how many of these boards should have been equipped with big copper heatsinks instead. |
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Update: I forgot how awesome the OpenCL API is.
Also, re: previous update, I seem to be getting 1 extra mhash on my 7970 due to these changes. Glorious 676 mhash.
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Update: I've dropped loops and OpenCL 1.0 support. This should not be slower for anyone, and if it is, blame your drivers.
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Wow, you really have to be borred Power handle will be a major factor with this chips. Datasheet says of 2.2C/W Rthjc. With good heatsink and fan this will be more like 4C/W (thermal resistance adds up). So when this chip will consume 15W, core temp will increase 60C (15*4) over ambient. That means 85C core temperature (25C ambient + 60C from dissipation) and thats more than guaranteed by Xillinx for commercial grade chips. So, Rthjc is blocking higher hashrates, not power consumption. Watercooling may push this babies a little bit more... You're being pretty pessimistic on the heatsink. You can get passive northbridge heatsinks with 2.5C/W thermal resistance. With airflow you should easily be able to get Rthca to 0.5C/W or lower if you go big/loud enough. You'll have quickly decreasing gains from going much lower than that, but 2.6 or 2.7 C/W Rthja should be reasonable and that would keep the junction at 60C in a 20C room with 15W. I'm not talking about Rthja but Rthjc. Thats a big difference. Rthja for FGG484 package is 9.3C/W @750 LFM. So, without heatsink you can dissipate maks 5W with ALOT of air blowing at chip. At still air Rthja is 15.8C/W. Thats 3W and you are boiling a core. That's without a heatsink, just blowing air at the chip. With a heatsink to get the thermal resistance from junction to ambient you add Rthjc and Rthca, which encompasses the interface between the case and the heatsink as well as the heatsink itself. When I said 2.7C/W Rthja, that was the system resistance with a heatsink with good airflow over it. So how would this change if I used a solid copper high performance heatsink plus expensive thermal paste like AS5? |
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I have repeatedly told people that Bitcoinica is a scam and that Bitcoinica staff should be banned from the forums.
Maybe now people will actually listen.
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His argument doesn't make sense anyhow. I'm a high count poster, a forum mod, author of DiabloMiner, owner of Diablo Mining Company, one of the first 100 Bitcoin users, and a very big advocate of Bitcoin usage, and I have made only positive posts about BFL. In fact, unless 28nm hardware comes out and its cheaper mh/$ than BFL MiniRigs, I want those to become the backbone of DMC (which, incidentally, would make me the biggest BFL user in the world).
Good Luck. Have you ever seen a BFL product in person? I imagine very few people have. Are they all shills? So your business plan is to issue counterfeit securities and use the proceeds to acquire capital in the form of a product you aren't sure actually exists or not? Good luck. Yawn, this forum is full of trolls, you're not bringing anything unique to the table. |
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His argument doesn't make sense anyhow. I'm a high count poster, a forum mod, author of DiabloMiner, owner of Diablo Mining Company, one of the first 100 Bitcoin users, and a very big advocate of Bitcoin usage, and I have made only positive posts about BFL. In fact, unless 28nm hardware comes out and its cheaper mh/$ than BFL MiniRigs, I want those to become the backbone of DMC (which, incidentally, would make me the biggest BFL user in the world).
Good Luck. Have you ever seen a BFL product in person? I imagine very few people have. Are they all shills? |
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People don't buy this based on it's heating capacity, and people don't run it in the winter, they run it 24/7.
Well, its a massive increase in profits for those of us in the north. (Alaska for me) If I had 6 mini rigs for instance @ 7200 watts I could save a LOT on heating costs while also mining. Put one in each area of the house. Summers here never get over about 72° F so as long as I can keep the air exchanging from inside to outside I could keep things cool enough in the summer too. This is all even more beneficial because power costs here are about $0.14 a kilowatt. Just saying, its a nice fringe benefit for some of us. Yeah, see, this is the argument I had with Diablo Mining Company haters. Them: MOVE TO ARIZONA/TEXAS/BUMFUCKED EGYPT, MORE SUN Me: More power and money wasted for active cooling. Them: BUT BUT BUT MAINE IS COLD Me: Thats the idea. Seriously, I will never understand some people. |
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I am very happy they posted it in a new thread, looking forward to receiving my Mini-rig.
BFL haters: get out of here!
Spamers writing "Subed" Get a life!
Subed Subed Subed Subed Subed Subed What's this thread about, again? Dunno, but i've subed Subed Subed |
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I think its very odd that whenever someone makes a negative post about BFL, a bunch of low post count users either attack, or bump the positive BFL posts in the forum.
Even stranger is that these posters typically have a very low ratio of useful posts to complete garbage if you review their history. Most of their posts are promoting the BFL "product" for lack of a better term.
BFL promotional posts types-
1) 'tech support' questions about supposed operational BFL units
2) claims of having received a BFL unit in the mail
3) making a post asking if the BFL is a scam, replying to the negative with another account
etc.
If only we could harness and direct this creativity to a more productive activity, like ngzhang has.
Aren't you a low post person as well? You accused BFL of sending DOA devices based on 1 "broken" device that zhang managed to probe. My god you sound like paid trolls the way you attack the slightest weakness like it's a gaping wound. STFU and contribute. There have been 100+ working units without a peep of failure and you sit there accusing BFL of shipping broken units. I think that would have been a forum topic you stupid coont. Feel free to keep checking BFL. As someone who has a 5k order out, i appreciate the scrutiny. Instead of doing that job, you're becoming the hannity/beck of the forum. STFU until you have something of value. Jeez, you're driving sane people away. His argument doesn't make sense anyhow. I'm a high count poster, a forum mod, author of DiabloMiner, owner of Diablo Mining Company, one of the first 100 Bitcoin users, and a very big advocate of Bitcoin usage, and I have made only positive posts about BFL. In fact, unless 28nm hardware comes out and its cheaper mh/$ than BFL MiniRigs, I want those to become the backbone of DMC (which, incidentally, would make me the biggest BFL user in the world). |
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People don't buy this based on it's heating capacity, and people don't run it in the winter, they run it 24/7.
I dunno, I know people who are running GPUs even though they're now losing money just because winter fuel costs more per BTU adjusted for mining profit. |
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Just as a reminder, you can pre-bid on GLBSE shares before the IPO opens. Someone seems to already has a share with his name on it.
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Angry neighborhood bastard mod here.
All of you, knock it off.
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Now, lets say ZTEX would offer me even better bulk prices than that because I'd be buying quite a few:
ZTEX 1.15y DMC Edition is 850 mhash @ 38 watts for $516, 1.64 mh/$, 22.36 mh/w
1.15y DMC edition's peak profit is at 57 months at $766.93, or a 148% profit.
You'd have to discuss the cost of a licensed run with Ztex, but it might be possible to get it down a lot in cost that way, since you can source your own parts from your own vendors and have it built wherever you want. I know the user "antirack" has done a licensed run, but I'm not sure what kind of cost was involved. I believe he is somewhere in Asia, perhaps China. The only problem is that you would need a lot of upfront capital to get started, and would have to know where to get parts and get them assembled. Yeah, thats the thing. Doing that is rather expensive and time consuming, and I'd actually rather just pay Ztex their profit margin to get their expertise on getting this done. I would be much happier if I could source these parts from multiple sources, such as half BFL half somebody else. But Ztex would have to make me one hell of a good deal for me to consider them. Plus, BTW, none of these numbers include upcoming 28nm FPGAs and theres at least 3 companies working on that. If someone can get me 28nm FPGAs at 1.64 mh/$ or better, they will suddenly find themselves on my list. |
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change zetx please to lower price if you compare it with the rig box you can purchase 25+ price ztex = 719€ * 1,3 = 934$ + shipping = under 1000$ for US citizens.
So profit after 60 month is 285$
and don't forget the warrenty. and if you want to invest about half a million. ask ztex for licence production for own use so it is possible to get much better prices for you :-)
just a new calculation if you produce your own zetx in licence with a possible priceper quad 650$ (the same like the uk said for self costs price):
25GH/s = 29.4 quads = 30 quads = 25.5 GH/s (30 x 850MH/s) = 30*650$ = 19500$ as compare for the 15295$ (+ vat, ...) for the bfl.
electricy is 30 * 38W = 1140W + a computer or what you ever need we just calculate with 1250W like the bfl.
If we said you produce 500 quad fpga's: 500* 650$ = 325000$ and 20.83 KW/h (= 500 KW per day with your electricy it is about 52$) for an easy calculation we say 2 quads (1.7 GH/s) are 1 BTC per Day (dif increase if you have so much hasing power) so there are 250 BTC a day = 250 * 5$ = 1250$ - 52$ power consumption (okay let it take easy again) 1200$ per day profit. = 1200$ * 30 = 36000$ a month.
So calculated complet: 325000$ invest for 1200$ profit a day are 210 days for roi or about 9 months (okay we do not calculate the half block, but it is possible to get the roi in 1 year).
So what you say for this?
Those numbers were done specifically with no bulk ordering discounts, I originally did that math for a different thread that was comparing it for small time miners. So, hey, lets do the math using that calculator, so the comparison continues to make sense, and lets compare the best bulk deal they have listed vs what we'd need: ZTEX 1.15y in 50 bulk is 850 mhash @ 38 watts for $950, 0.89 mh/$, 22.36 mh/w 1.15y in 50 bulk's peak profit is at 57 months at $143.39, or a 15% profit. Now, lets say ZTEX would offer me even better bulk prices than that because I'd be buying quite a few: ZTEX 1.15y DMC Edition is 850 mhash @ 38 watts for $516, 1.64 mh/$, 22.36 mh/w 1.15y DMC edition's peak profit is at 57 months at $766.93, or a 148% profit. Similarly, that new Enterpoint Cairnsmore1 would have to be sold in the low $500s for it to compete with BFL. |
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I look forward to seeing how this progresses. Seeing how you are going to IPO for a little over 3x the sum of the 3 largest mining companies on GLBSE, it'll be interesting to see how the market absorbs this potential investment.
I'm curious, what is your plan while selling all 200,000 shares? I ask as 1 BFL Mini Rig + enough solar panels to run it is around $22k that that doesn't include the land needed for the panels and a roof over the Mini Rig's head. So, how will you be proceeding? Gradual rollout or wait for all 200,000 shares to sell?
Probably not all 200k shares, but at least enough of them to do something with. Do you have a specific plan or are you rolling it as you go? It helps to lure investors when you have an actual plan with return numbers besides the "if all 200k shares sell now" plan. I'm not sure what you mean. The plan I think you're referring is in the op post. The plan in the first post is if you had 200k BTC right now. Let's be realistic.. you aren't going to have 20k BTC by the end of summer without some way to begin paying dividends to investors. Your competition is already setup and aggressively expanding. What is your plan in the interim? Or is there none? That is what I've been asking. Do you plan on rolling out hardware based around some sort of unit? Where does that hardware live? If you find these to be tough questions after having sorted out your long term plan then take your time to figure them out. I'm quite interested in other mining endeavors than the three 800lb gorillas sitting at the top of GLBSE. I'm not going to speculate on that. We'll see where we are a week after the 3 day waiting period on GLBSE is up. Plans never survive contact with the enemy, but its a little early to start with the doom and gloom talk. |
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