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1181  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: ⚽ UEFA Euro 2024 in Germany ⚽ - Qualifiers on: September 14, 2023, 08:28:19 AM
He is a good coach overall but just wasnt able to find a way in the national team and Germany needed to sack him to try and get some good results because they will need it in the euros to try and win the title because they have a really good team and they need to go far with it.
They can fire the coach or the football association president as they like. But they should look in to the root cause. Performance from Germany is down, because newly drafted players are unable to keep up with the retiring ones. Their star payers like Thomas Müller and İlkay Gündoğan are getting old and more prone to injuries, but there is no one to replace them right now. On top of that, the quality of the local league has gone down over the years.    Bundesliga at this point can't be compared to La Liga or the English Premier League.
Overall few countries are facing dilemma into their soccer system which is bringing them down, and they are not trying to understand about this all, and now we have few coaches are sacked after Euro qualifiers and friendlies as well but still problem is stands which needs to settle instead of sacking coach working of quality in academies and coaching centers can give better result.

Bundesliga is surely on decline in quality which is the biggest problem for the Germans, and they need to work on this now their mostly stars are over age and their suitable replacements are not working on the same level which is surely issue hopefully now they will turn into better way for having positive results before this event otherwise things could be more than these results.
1182  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: French Soccer League Predictions and Discussion Thread (Ligue 1) on: September 13, 2023, 07:49:55 PM
Regarding the money spent so far, we know PSG for the money they usually spend on their palyer and they usually buy superstar players in each season but this time they made a good amount of money selling the players they had.
PSG spent 300m in this summer for players but they also earned 100m. On the other hand selling players like Messi, Verratti, and Neymar was a good step for them to earn more money.
Although psg did not earn much money from the transfer of Lionel Messi and Verratti, PSG earned a lot of money from the transfer of Neymar. PSG can easily buy a quality player from Europe for the amount of money PSG received as Neymar's transfer fee. PSG will not receive any transfer fee for the transfer of Mbappe, despite receiving transfer fees from those who left the club this season. Mbappe only wants to leave the club as a free agent member, Mbappe without the club as a free agent member means a big loss for PSG because PSG is not able to earn any money from the transfer of Mbappe where there is a lot of money to be made from the transfer of a player like Mbappe. PSG does not want Mbappe to leave, but if Mbappe leaves, then PSG will have to make a new plan and organize the team.
With their long fail experience now PSG management is learning good things and not buying big names which give them headache for spending more money on their luxurious salaries and other things which is positive change with the best thing happen they have one of the best and well experienced coach which is not going to have good changes and want to have good strategy which give them good results without big names so right now they are on right path and most chances they will be done better in Ligue 1 which is already under their control and their best target is Champions League which is never been easy because here we need good chemistry from players and better strategy from coach.

Even in this season we have no chance for them in Champions League but if they are able to stick with this coach most chances they could be big team in near future for the Champions League title as well, but this is never been easy as we can watch the success of Manchester City which is now one of the best in UEFA and World.
1183  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Saudi Professional League 2023/2024 on: September 13, 2023, 06:33:10 PM
Based on team performance As  Roma are not very good currently but Lukaku is a very good player and also a good addition to their squad because he's had good experience with the Italian league and I believe he'll do his very best for Roma to sign him permanently next summer and moreover I think if Roma do not get impressed by his performance and end up not signing him i think he might still get another opportunity to play in Europe, maybe in a mid table EPL team or another Italian team, but if he fails to secure a deal with an European team then the Saudi league might end up being his destination next summer.
 Lukaku betrayed Intermilan by making a wrong decision to sign  with there rivals Juventus which almost affected his career this season when Juventus terminated the negotiation with his parent club Chelsea and with Chelsea not interested in featuring him this season they has to loan him out instead of keeping him in the team to warm their bench and earn huge salary.
Romeo Lukaku which was having bright future at Inter Milan done mistake and now paying for this because his talks to Juventus done big misery for his future at Inter Milan, and now he is in AS Roma which is clearly last chance with his bad AS Roma start of the season is also not as expected because they are currently down with how they will do it's important for the Lukaku as well if they are able to fight back and Lukaku having good performance then surely we can expect him in good place otherwise.

Now we have to check which Saudi Pro League club will again approach him because if we have good season here in Saudi League them any other players will also try to join them and price and salary will be declined for the Lukaku as well so right now any prediction is not possible about him with how things will go it's all depend on both parties we call Roma and Lukaku, but hopefully things will be still good for him in this Saudi League as here we have many spots for player like him which are not having good future in European clubs.
1184  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Premier League Prediction Thread 2023/2024 on: September 13, 2023, 02:36:21 PM
Manchester City might end up winning the match, but it won’t be an easy win for Manchester City just as you said. West Ham shouldn’t be underestimated as they are currently performing well, and I am sure they will do everything possible to stop Manchester City from winning them. But no matter the effort put by West Ham, I don’t think they will be able to defeat Manchester City, I don't think that will be possible for them. Manchester City haven't lost any match or drawn any match since the season started, so they won't want their match against West Ham to be the first match, they will do everything to win, but I am not expecting much goal difference in the match.
The lack of a plenty goal difference you’re envisioning in this game already indicates that the game will be difficult to know the winner. West Ham have been amazing, and I can't laud them enough after winning three games and drawing only one since the season began. Manchester City will have to tread carefully in this match since West Ham can infiltrate any team, and I don't think Manchester City will be an exception. If West Ham can win, tie, or give Manchester City more time before winning, they will be feared more by young teams and will easily take three points.
West Ham United is having one of the best start in this season with this match is surely going to have big impact on league table and both teams consistency and performance even right now absence of KDB is having big problem for the Manchester City as they are completely failed to have enough chances and goal which is surely not ideal situation Manchester City having hard fought win against Sheffield United in last game with this level of performance we can give some advantage to West Ham but still it has never been easy for both teams to have some positive from this match.

For me most chances we will have close drawn game because I am feeling West Ham United still have plenty of support and quality which allow them to stand against Manchester City which is unbeaten in this season.
1185  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Gambling by financial dependents. on: September 13, 2023, 11:06:30 AM
A family member reported to me that her eighteen years old son has started gambling. She is not worried that he is gaming but her problem is that he is a student that solely depends on her for everything he needs. Her fear is also that her son might start stealing from her if he has no access to the money he needs to gamble. My relative has even started suspecting that some money she feels was misplaced might have been stolen by her son.
It is somewhat difficult to control an underage boy if he becomes addicted to gambling. That is why it is better to bring him back before he becomes addicted. The boy you mentioned is an 18 years old man I can say he is quite mature now. If he has no income of his own then gambling will surely encourage negative aspects for him. I think there is no other way than to bring him back from his addiction by getting him well understood by his family. He should understand that earning money is not an easy task. So it is better if he can gamble with his earned money otherwise he should not gamble. Also he should understand that gambling is not a platform for high income. It's generally best to treat it as a fun.
Even the adults too but I think it also depend on the severity of their condition. 18 years old is the legal age of many activities which are mostly done by the adults but I think to think maturely does not only depend on our age because some younger people that I saw, can act or think maturely while there are older person who acts and think immaturely.

To have an income is also not guarantee that we can now play for run and become less addicted to it but actually if we have a money it can lead us to play more, and we can use it to generate more money. To be understood by a family may not help curing our addiction because it can mean that they are letting us to continue on our desires.
1186  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Cockfighting? on: September 13, 2023, 09:52:31 AM
I was not much surprised on the sight of cockfighting as I was on hearing how much money are on stake for every match and how much does a single fighting cock costs. Both of them are in the range of millions of dollars. Cocks are bread and raised for the specific tasks. They have a high dietary needs and go through trainings by specialized trainers.
And I don't think cockfighting are any different than horse racing as there are specific traits and ability of trainers involved. Millions of chicken are slaughtered everyday to feed people. And not all cock fighting ends on death and many cock recovers quick for another fight.
That's a lot of money in cockfighting because many people gather in one place to watch the cockfight. And they bet on their chosen chicken with their money and hope to win some money. So it's not a small bet, even though cockfighting bets don't seem interesting to other people who may have never seen the screams of people watching a cockfight.

Cockfighting is no different from horse racing or other sports betting. But the problem is, now, many places have banned cockfighting, forcing bettors to create a special place for cockfighting betting. And the chickens that will be used as fighters are trained to have better stamina to win the bets. Maybe in the future, there will be a lot of resistance from activists who love animals, so the government really needs to pay special attention to cockfighting betting. And there is a possibility that cockfighting betting will be prohibited in the future.
The sport is already banned in most parts of the world because it's an unethical and selfish sport. People who make cocks fight and those who spectate are basically selfish because they make those poor animals fight to death only so that they can watch and enjoy and place bets and win. There are thousands of other games and sports that they can do the same thing with, they don't need to make those poor animals suffer just for their entertainment.

Social activists and animal protecting authorities should find such places and cease this from happening and they should also arrest people who are involved in cockfighting and also those who are there watching and making bets on the games, this is the only way they might stop doing this unethical act.
1187  Economy / Gambling / Re: Stake.com - The Leading Crypto Casino - Drake, UFC, Everton, Alfa Romeo F1 Team on: September 12, 2023, 03:58:49 PM
It is well documented that autocratic countries send their most loyal students abroad to the best universities they can pay, so they can return back and offer their services to the regime. It is something which have been well documented, how China pays for students to go to Harvard.

So it is easy to picture a country where internet is forbidden for the normal and common people but it is widely available for the North Korean elite and their hacker groups who get money for them, literal fortunes without having to be afraid of prosecution for years (if ever).
Hopefully after this unfortunate attack, casinos will get some extra security measures to make those criminals to put infinitely more effort to even have a chance to succeed again.
No matter what you look into, those people have been raised with some hardcore education there as well. But let me keep politics out of it, we can say that these hackers basically could be from anywhere, and the point is that a company that worths hundreds of millions of dollars, maybe even billions of dollars, shouldn't be getting hacked like this, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I know that it could happen in the tech world, I have seen even the FBI page itself getting hacked before, but that doesn't mean that it was a terrible thing on their behalf. So Stake should get a much better security people, a lot more pentesters and just pay them a sum to keep trying to hack into it all the time and fix the holes.
1188  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: How to Control Your Emotions and Win More Bets on: September 12, 2023, 10:44:53 AM
If emotion is the main reason to win in gambling, I should be a millionaire now because I can control my emotion, financial, time etc.

There's no way emotion can influence a gambler to win, emotion only make people to not lose a lot more money that can hurt the gambler financial. Which mean the gambler will become a responsible gambler, but it's not make the gambler will win in gambling.
That's right. Having control over your emotions cannot have any influence over your wins but it can greatly affect the amount of losses you might get because when you are always emotionally stable and don't make decisions out of anger or sadness or any other emotion but think and use your wisdom, you will not lose as much as you might do if you don't have any control over your emotions which is basically what happens with most of the gamblers these days.

Not having enough control over your emotions can also make you more vulnerable to becoming a gambling addict since you wouldn't be able to differentiate between when you need to stop and when you need to start gambling again and that affects your time and activities in normal life.
1189  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Learning from those who have experience on: September 12, 2023, 09:48:01 AM
My personal experience says that what makes people addicted to gambling is the desire to win the jackpot. I had felt that way. The solution that I have implemented is to just enjoy gambling as a game. Don't even think about winning big bets and jackpots. I often bet on UFC fights but I only bet about $20 and it's really fun because there's like an adrenaline rush when you watch the fight.
It's true, the desire to get a lot of money through gambling and get one life changed is basically what makes everyone gamble more even after losing. It's a strong feeling when you are deprived of the things that you like to have in your life and you see others having them. You keep thinking of the ways that can provide you with at least the possibility of gaining everything you want, and gambling is the easiest way that provides the possibility for people to achieve their goals.

However, people don't consider the fact that gambling is not a guaranteed way of achieving everything, and only a very small possibility doesn't mean that one spends everything they have or earns on gambling because whether you will get something or not from gambling is totally dependent on your luck.
1190  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Has your Responsible Gambling had any of these Effects on You? on: September 12, 2023, 07:49:49 AM
I will agree with you that it is the poor gamblers that are seen as irresponsible gamblers because they dont have any funds to fall back at when they run at big loss. You will see them looking for someone to fet a loan from to satisfy their gambling urge and to also chase their losses. When it comes to addiction and self discipline these applies to both a poor and a rich gambler because if you are an addicted gambler,you will end up in excessive loss that will affect your financial bouyance. Set a time limit for your gambling activities and stop when it is time to stop,and only game with funds that you cam afford to lose,so that you don't start chasing your losses.
They must truly realize what they are doing is wrong and start learning to cure their addiction. Those who have not experienced a gambling addiction must learn to be responsible gamblers so that it does not affect their finances. It would be better if they could just leave gambling instead of having to use their money to gamble. If they have experienced a big loss from gambling, they should rest first and not gamble for a while to calm their minds after experiencing that big loss. Maybe problems will occur in our family environment if we get into the habit of gambling because it could cause friction between family members. Hence, this is something vulnerable that could happen to our family.
Poor people gamble with the hope that they might get a life-changing amount from their gambling activities since that will change their lives forever. That is the reason why they usually gamble despite not having a lot of money because that hope never dies, especially if you know that it is the only thing that gives you some hope for a change in your life and there is no other way for you to get a lot of money and get a better life for yourself and your family.

However, I don't recommend anyone this thing because gambling is not something that provides riches to almost everyone. So if there are a million poor people gambling, only a few out of them might manage to get something significant from it and others will simply be wasting their money.
1191  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Possible measures to stop online gambling addiction. on: September 12, 2023, 05:46:29 AM
Gambling is perilous; don't be swayed by enormous bonuses; all of them are intended to induce one to participate in the concept of gambling, which is entirely at our own personal risk. Social media platforms Influencers have no business conveying the excruciating message they are, as long as they continue to make their cool cash after being paid for online advertising connected to these gambling websites, they're done. We owe ourselves enormous responsibility to take care of ourselves and pay our bills without depending on anybody to do them for us.
Mostly, people who watch the streamers or listen to the influencers that stream their gambling activities or talk about gambling are basically people who are already involved in gambling, and they just enjoy how these people gamble because they are given free recharge by the casinos that they are advertising so that they can make people see how good that particular casino is and if they manage to hit a big win, those who are watching will get tempted.

So, I believe that a person doesn't get addicted to gambling only because they are following a certain influencer on social media or they are watching a streamer on YouTube, but they get addicted because they don't have enough self-control and they can't control their urge for gambling.
1192  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Betting Features on any Banking or Financial apps should be Removed on: September 12, 2023, 04:48:19 AM
Wait, is that really a banking app or digital fintech service? Can they easily offer something that is not relevant to the business orientation?, because the banking that I know is tied more strictly to policy. If that really happened there, I totally agree with your opinion, OP.

Anyway, my focus shifted to the bottom 2 rows of bars in the screenshot. Is it advertising? It seems like your local bank only cares about their income, as long as it's big money.
They obviously do it for money because they will charge a commission for that from the service provider as well as the user. If gambling is legal in a country, a bank is also allowed to provide such services where they partner up with a betting platform to provide users with the option to make bets directly with their bank accounts or maybe deposit money in their betting accounts using the bank app, both the betting platform and the bank benefit from this partnership.

However, if gambling is not legal in a country, a bank cannot provide such services to its users because that would be going against the law and financial institutions never do things that are against the law as law is what protects them in the first place even if they are private or government controlled.
1193  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Saudi Professional League 2023/2024 on: September 11, 2023, 06:11:54 PM
Mohamed Salah is a Muslim player, which makes him the most likely to move to the Saudi league, considering various aspects. Al Ittihad seems to offer Salah better money as well as more facilities and for the Muslim nation Salah is certainly keen to join. I think Salah will probably join Al Ittihad, he will definitely go to the Saudi leagues as a player in the Muslim world. It would be a compliment for him to join Al Ittihad as a Muslim. Muslims all over the world would want Salah to play at a Saudi club, and the Muslim star would certainly show more interest in going there.
I completely disagreed with you about this all because right now soccer is much better than religious and personal ego's it is matter of quality and prestigious there is no doubt Mohammad Salah is Muslim but still he is one of the best strikers in the world which is key player for the Liverpool and have important role in Jürgen Klopp strategy which is having good impact on Liverpool future just because of this they already rejected one of the biggest offer form Al Ittihad few days back and now most chances he will stay in this club for this season with most chances he can leave in coming season.

Currently, Liverpool is having good start of this season and if they allow him for any transfer then surely things can go worst for them as well they are already out of the Champions League for this season and with this exit and having not good option for suitable replacement they have no choice.
1194  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: UEFA Champions League 2023/24 Season on: September 11, 2023, 05:06:00 PM
The strong teams like Real Madrid, Man City, and Barca are all in the easy group. Barcelona is in the most accessible group with Porto, Shakhtar, and Antwerp. And Arsenal's return to the Champions League in Group B is also unpleasant for Sevilla, PSV, and Lens teams.
As you said, the PSG, Dortmund, Milan, and Newcastle teams in Group F are evenly matched. This is called the death group. Uncomfortable opponents come from other football backgrounds in the Top 5 of Europe. Interestingly, midfielder Sandro Tonali will reunite with his former team Milan. Midfielder Ousmane Dembele will also meet the team that sold him for a record price, Dortmund. This is the group I prioritize viewing the most.
Due to quality difference things are going easy for top clubs which are having enough sources and players to destroy any team with this now predictions are easy in few group matches, but still few are having good entertainment for the fans because things are not easy in early rounds of matches within few leagues like right now PSG is struggling, and Newcastle United is also having not good start of this season Sevilla is in relegation zone which mean they need to do more than from current level if they want to have something positive.

Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Barcelona and Manchester City are surely having spots into next round without any problem because these are well-prepared and surely much superior against their opponents which is giving them good advantage.
1195  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Saudi Professional League 2023/2024 on: September 11, 2023, 04:09:59 PM
Getting the 2030 world cup would definitely be a profitable business for them if they can pull it off but even with all the money that they are spending right now, and the money they are going to spend to build a system for it, the profit will not be that big for them, it is not going to be that simple.

I believe that the yare just sportwashing their crimes and nothing more, they want to look better for the west, they are not a western nation but they want to show that they are not a BRICS nation and still doing what west would want. All those teams they bought at the west was a proof of that, now they are doing that in their own nation as well and that should be important too and doing fine at the moment.
1196  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Why gambling beginners must not joke with casino announcement on: September 11, 2023, 12:08:15 PM
Well, what you are trying to explain doesn't apply to all the platforms and casinos that are newly launched. I agree that we as forum members have a mindset which barely accepts any service or platform from outside this forum and if they haven't announced it on the forum, but that doesn't mean that every single platform that is launched without an announcement in this forum is or will be a scam. There are thousands of services and platforms that are not available on this forum and they are doing pretty well.

So, it's good for newbies to always be careful when joining a platform and shouldn't just go with the flow when they see that they are getting a lot of bonuses or a very large amount in a single bonus which might be intriguing but it shouldn't be the only reason for someone to join a platform.
1197  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin obsession! on: September 11, 2023, 12:35:39 AM
Bitcoin has been around for a decade, Bitcoin has managed to become a popular investment choice for many people around the world in just a short time. The wider popularity of Bitcoin makes many people very obsessed with Bitcoin (Obsessive Bitcoin movement). People who are obsessed with Bitcoin will always take the time to check prices, news, and stop by cryptocurrency-related forums such as the Forum Bitcointalk.

The more people who are obsessed with Bitcoin the better for the future development of Bitcoin, their interest in Bitcoin can help increase the price and popularity of Bitcoin. People will take advantage of technological developments looking for new ways to invest and save their money. Gold is commonly used and is the choice for investors who are looking for security because it is not as susceptible to inflation as the dollar. Bitcoin can offer some advantages over gold, they think Bitcoin can be a safe haven and potentially offer multiple returns.
Bitcoin might have some advantages over gold but it also has some disadvantages. Most of these are related to their value and volatility. We all know how volatile Bitcoin is and it can always go up and down significantly in very short periods of time. So, the advantage of Bitcoin is that it goes up very quickly compared to gold and the disadvantage is that it also drops in value very quickly where the price of gold usually just keeps going up slowly over time.

The reason behind the obsession of people with Bitcoin is basically because of its ability to go up significantly during bull runs which provides great returns on investments. I know there are some people who started using Bitcoin not just because of its price but because of the technology but those numbers are pretty low.
1198  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: presuring someone into Bitcoin investment on: September 10, 2023, 05:32:31 PM
Pressuring someone to invest in something or to invest in bitcoin is not a good idea at all because it is very risky. Let's take your mother as an example; when you first introduced her to bitcoin, she initially expressed no interest, and you didn't press the issue. However, after doing some research on the currency, she returned to you and expressed interest. Then, since you did not urge her to invest again, if anything occurs or the price of bitcoin drops and she is unable to sell it when she anticipates, she won't hold it against you. As a result, there won't be any friction between the two of you.

And once more, when you are introducing someone to bitcoin, make sure they are a well-informed and educated person because some people are difficult to understand. Some people will invest their money in bitcoin because they believe they will profit from it if they do so after you explain what it is. However, not everyone can invest in bitcoin because it is a type of investment that you must be capable of doing in order to do so.
A lot of people make this mistake, they get into the industry, find Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies fascinating, and they get excited, and out of that excitement they tell people about them and also ask them to get involved without even educating them about the risks involved with cryptocurrency investments, and when the people they invite actually invest some money in cryptocurrencies and if they lose money, they will put the blame on them because they are the ones who got them to put their money into it.

This is the reason why I never take the first step and introduce people to Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies, I might discuss it generally but I would never ask them to make investments in it so that they can get profit, and if they ask themselves, I always tell them that the market is very risky and there can always be negative outcomes as well.
1199  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Possible measures to stop online gambling addiction. on: September 10, 2023, 08:30:51 AM
Possibility for stopping with gambling habit maybe we can self controlling and viewed with how much money loss and spent in gambling platform, its not instant way for stopping gambling but must to start slowly with increasing small budget use for depositing in gambling account. I think outside there have many gambler stopping for betting because realize with gambling can't promising to be rich or earn much money.

Check with your account withdrawing and deposit history, compare how balance between withdraw and deposit before want to keep betting, you will understand with how much money spending for nothing receiving although many people said with gambling they can earn much money and instant to be rich.
I don't think that self-control can be practiced or created, especially if you have already become addicted to gambling which is basically the result of you not having enough self-control. Someone might be able to stop themselves at the right time but only if they already have self-control within themselves since the beginning. Self-control is not something that can be learned, it is something that comes built-in in a human from their birth, so it's not found in everyone.

That's why, people that get addicted to gambling barely be able to stop themselves from excessive gambling and such people can only get away from gambling if they admit it to someone close to them that they are in trouble and that person might be able to find a way to keep them away from gambling.
1200  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Cockfighting? on: September 09, 2023, 04:23:39 PM
Not really a waste of time to take care of any animal, it is a problem of why are you taking care of them. It is like if you take care of a cow or a pig, the purpose is to eat it, so not really good nor bad just an utilitarian purpose. A different thing is treating the animals to fight and the like, which in my book is pretty much a bad thing.
And this doesn't just happen with roosters, which are staged to make the chickens fight. However, there are many other types of animals such sheep, fish, bulls, and so on. Indeed, I also realize that fighting is an animal instinct, but in this case animals are forced to fight just for human pleasure. Likewise with several other types of animals. Humans catch them from the wild and educate them, sometimes humans do cruel things so that the animals they catch can be tame so they can later be staged. And it is done for money and human pleasure
All of these are the wrong practices, making animals fight, catching and keeping them in zoos, taming them, and then using them for staged shows and stuff. all just for money and pleasure. A lot of animals that we see in all these things deserve to be in the wild, free, with their families living their lives the way they are meant to, we catch them and keep them with ourselves forcefully only so that we can see them and have pleasure and flex that we have dangerous and unique animals.

Taming animals that are meant for that is a different thing, like dogs and cats and other animals that are suitable for such things. You can have a dog that you love, so you train him, teach him a lot of things, and then create a YouTube channel or something and put his videos up for others to see, that's a good thing, but if you use it for other things which are harmful to him and he is forced to do it, that's totally wrong.
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