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If the group is comfortable with this, may I put forward that I setup an email specifically for this issue and then people can forward their orders ect.. directly there?
I am happy to compile this, but I probably won't get round to it until next week at the earliest. I'll probably just put together a spreadsheet and a PDF of the order paperwork.
I don't mind putting some hours in, as the organisation of our evidence is really pretty straight forward as I see it.
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One final thought before I actually get back on with some work. It occurred to me that there may be limited action we can take along legal courses- while I am fully advocating them it may be worth considering employing a private debt collector, though I have no idea of the first thing to do in organising something like that.
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Maybe we can start by posting the orders we have made along with transactions and their status, then one of us can compile it in a read friendly format for when/if we forward it onto lawyers. How does that sound?
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Right guys, I had a word with a nice fellow over at http://www.millerrosenfalck.co.uk/They have links over in Romania, so that's helpful. Before we proceed contacting them again we need a list of all the orders that have been made and their status. Some correspondence is good too, but one step at a time. The correspondence needs to illustrate the point of what has happened, what's been done and where we are now pretty much. We also need to specify how we are being represented, this I'm not as clear on it seemed to me the options were an individual can represent us all or we create a business entity with us all associated with it. Either way this will mean revealing the names and addresses of each interested party. While for me this is not a problem, I only mention it as it may be for others. The cost may prohibitionary, since I've only got a few BTC at stake, I know there are others. The lawyer told me that if we are not retrieving more than £20k then it might not be worth it. My guess is that the cost for legal services may range from a few thousand pounds up and above 10k or so- this is not set in stone and in terms of getting all our info centralised and organised its good to do it even if we only make limited use of the legal options in Romania. I'd love to sit all weekend and compile it, but that isn't an option for me right now, I'm busy with wedding stuff. I am happy to act as the contact for the solicitors for now as I understand this will be a slow process. |
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An interesting question is how much will even be able to be recovered at this point.
Anyway, since I don't have an idea of the numbers I'll phone a solicitor anyway and ask about their opinion on the best way to proceed and post his reply.
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P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands  yeah, he took our money, bought miners, did not pay us anything and he is happy because he is thinking: "I live in fucking Hungury - nobody can reach me".. From what I see he did make a fraud. There is a lot of money in stake. Can we do something about this? Assuming the personal information is correct the simplest thing is to issue a European Payment Order. If we want to hire a lawyer I suggest we discuss that and do it as a group. I am in. Lets sue him. I dont think that the cost will be too high for us. We can split expenses. Can you find out how much it would be approximately? As salvi said, hes just robbing us. Plain and simple. I'm happy to look into it, I'll make a quick phone tommorow and try and get an estimation, but for really moving forward we will need cement numbers of people and how much is owed. Last time I spoke to a solicitor they said the best thing to do would be issue the EPO, but considering that was only a few hundred pounds for something and this is much bigger I don't know how much to expect. Before we seriously speak to a solicitor we need to have an idea who wants representation, so we can list the transactions and amounts. The breach of EU trading law is pretty obvious, but we will have to nail down the dates breached, what has been put forward by Steve ect... Might get pretty time intense, and I do not mind getting my hands dirty despite me moving, starting a new job and planning a wedding right now! This does need to be about consensus and if there is someone in a better position to pursue legal recourse, such as someone in Romania themselves or even someone more familar with EU law then we should consider that option too. To be honest I'm surprised at the lack of activity in this thread, which means that if we can get the few people on here organised, maybe it won't be as much trouble as I envisage. I'll finish this post by appealing to Steve (who I am sure reads this thread) to resolve these issues equitably for everyone involved. Me, personally at this point would accept a compromise of some kind. At this point it really feels we are just being screwed over though. |
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Oh my god^^ He has a son and he is a fraud. That kid is unlucky i guess, because his father scammed so many people... Shame on you Steve.
I honestly don't believe Steve went in to scam people. But it's pretty clear that he's in a hole that have left people holding the bag. SouthernGent, can you put a poll on the thread, so we can get an idea of how many of us are willing to persue legal recourse? |
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P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands yeah, he took our money, bought miners, did not pay us anything and he is happy because he is thinking: "I live in fucking Hungury - nobody can reach me".. From what I see he did make a fraud. There is a lot of money in stake. Can we do something about this? Assuming the personal information is correct the simplest thing is to issue a European Payment Order. If we want to hire a lawyer I suggest we discuss that and do it as a group. |
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Not sure of his phone. To be honest not even sure of his real name.
Just saw the new post...
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Seems a lot of strange stuff is going on. Having similar radio silence on another group buy. Since JohnK is MIA there is basically nothing to be done. Good to see all these guys giving anarcho-capitalism a good name.
I hope that these fiascos become a thing of the past.
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Seems not much progress is made. I've not received any replies to be added to the mailing list that Steve is apparently using to communicate.
While all our patience is wearing thin, unfortunately we will have to wait for the gears to get going after holiday season before we decide on definitive action to take.
Steve I know that you're reading this, please add me to your mailing list, check your messages from me.
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Cheers maltize. My orders are added. |
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Any word?
Yes! Just sent you an e-mail. Ok, let's start with the beginning: purchased two knc miners. Not entirely out of your money, guys, remember that more people wanted in from my town, paying in fiat. Total of 1.3 TH/s. The plan for the continuity is that you mine stuff like PPC, TRC, uniportant things. Why? Because once a month they (might) reach a peak on which you make a shitload of bitcoins. But that's theoretical and it worked only a few times for me, so far, with small amounts of coins, like a max of 0.5 btc out of one full day's mining. About the receipt, no, i don't want to show any receipt. You can see the miner happily hashing even in a video if you like, but the invoice is a thing i just don't share to people on the internet, cached 1000 times per second by Google. About the payouts, i will be frank: i don't know if it will succeed, but my own plans never failed before, except when i relied on others (To imply Avalon and BkkCoins). To answer a few questions / doubts about the boards: The factory has ordered shit. Lots of unimportant parts as well as some important parts. By the time i wanted to assemble my 800 chips ordered, i got the same shitty answer that we're still waiting for parts. So i asked "what kind of parts?" In reply, i got the most important parts on the whole freaking board: the transformers (5V -> 1.2V, dunno how to call them better) and a few other so called "critical" parts, the ones that can be sourced only from special places at special rates. Thing is that the klondike board was made based on a part catalog, not on real world facts, like parts that do exist in some warehouse. Anyway, i will do my best to refund those too, i'm not here to take noone's money, specially because by the time btc reached $1000 i didn't have even a single coin in my wallet. BTW, i still owe the factory a few thousand euros, but i can handle that, somehow.... About payment: i must admit i'm having difficulty calculating between shares / paid btc / hashrate / estimated hashrate value over time. The thing is that knc doesn't make much in btc, it makes much in fiat. And it also eats electricity, but let's not consider that for the moment,.. Total value of 1.2 - 1.3 TH/s now is around 23-25 btc per month. Please think on a solution, because fully refunding btc will make only one of you guys happy, not all of you. The above mentioned btc produced will also fall slowly, by the time passes. Difficulty rises, so that amount is only going to be smaller by next month (around half). Lastly: i apologize for every shit i caused. I didn't mean to harm noone, and i didn't mean to run with noone's money. Answering e-mails got way harder since i'm on my phone. I don't have a pc/laptop since july. Nor can i have one now, because space / time / nerve doesn't allow it. So i just type when i can, from my phone. Multiple jobs are making this even more "fun", so i'm dead tired by the time i get home. Not trying to victimise myself here, just stating that there IS a reason for my silence. Again, truly sorry and i'm still not giving up on you. Pieces of refunds (or shares) going out today, a bit later. Now it's 02:44 AM.. I received no email and I have requested at least once to be added to the list. I have not received any refund (or shares) for my boards+assembly. I will send you a message again. I appreciate you getting in touch with us on the forum, sorry to hear about your situation. I am unclear as to how much of the boards and assembly is to be refunded, or if this has been refunded to you and used for these miners. But I guess we'll hear from you eventually about that. If these miners are producing anything, people who ordered chips should be made whole and then we can move onto sorting out boards. My opinion is that we mine the most profitable alt coins once BTC is no longer a decent option, using something like CoinWarz.com to decide (?) and have payouts either in those or btc, btc may be more practical, but I'm personally happy to accept alts too. If we have to be mining this is probably the best solution. I'm not convinced Steve liquifying his miners is the best option at this point. We've probably got a year or so of alt coins being profitable enough that we may all see a little coin back from this debacle. Waiting once a month on the hope that TRC or PPC might pop I think is ropey at best. Switching alts every few days is probably the way forward. Interested to hear others opinions on this. |
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No one is being told shit! I got over 30BTC I gotta try and get back  Have you sent a message to John K about this? 30BTC was a considerable amount even when back when we were starting. Steve is silent again. If he will not start comunicating till the end of the week we should considerate our legal options. How many ouf you guys are residents of EU? I'm based in the UK and have some familiarity with one of the legal options available- I spoke to a solicitor about an order from a shop in Belgium that was taking way over the expected waiting period. There is a European Payment Order which may be appropriate. It's cheap to initiate as I understand, but we may be missing some information required. This is the last thing I want to do as I'd much rather see people made as whole as possible without bringing the state into this. |
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No one is being told shit! I got over 30BTC I gotta try and get back Have you sent a message to John K about this? 30BTC was a considerable amount even when back when we were starting. |
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The chips were in btc and should of been escrowed.
ANY value of hash rate given on KNC shares should be given on todays rates as he owes in BTC.
Steve cannot make this work, he gambled with your BTC and blew it. RIP
I don't want to agree with you, but I cannot see how this will end well. |
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I've been wondering the same. Nothing as far as I can tell. I'm going to be way too busy over the next weekend, but I'll send him an email and see if I get a copy paste job too.
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Is anyone having trouble with their miners repeatedly turning off?
Thanks.
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Is there any news? Did KNC deliver November orders?
What will we do if there will be no delivery in next few days? Ive asked Steve if he could send me an invoice copy for the KnC order, but he did not replied. Right now I am not convinced that Steve even made an order. Not saying that he did not (I cant know this either). But if he did order KnC, why not send a copy of the invoice? After all he purchased it from our money, did he not? It certainly seems that way. Knc have shown their ability to deliver, when that will be I have no idea. I think Steve bought from Knc because he has access to cheap aircon and electricity, so it might have been economical for him to do so. I think we are heading for some more monster diff increase so how economical they will be remains to be seen. The fact that he potentially did this without consulting us while using our BTC makes me very suspicious, but I have no way to substaniate these claims- all I know is that I'm waiting for a refund on the boards and there are others that have not been refunded at all. I've been screwed by both group buys I participated in- Steamboat's was a mess and at least I can make back some fiat with the price rise in BTC, ironically I was screwed less by Steve, as he refunded my chips relatively promptly, but I'm not making excuses- (at least he appears to be thinking of his customers?) So as I wrote I'm willing to give it until the end of this month. We're beating a dead horse here waiting and complaining though, if Knc start shipping and we hear nothing from Steve I'm happy to organise some kind of action to get some transparency and answers. But we need to remember that if Steve wanted to run off with our BTC he could have done it quite a while ago, after all he posted a video of himself and gave his passport to John K. It would have been quite an epic scam if it is! |
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Heard there were delays with Knc |
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