If you sell it's for good.
This sentence is so delicious. I want to eat it. |
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That fact that we have debated this topic for more than 2 posts highlights exactly the problem the reddit guy in OP had.
If we, users of bitcointalk.org and people who have a good grasp of what's going on, are debating it then new users are that much more disadvantaged. Please, continue to make whatever argument but my previous sentence is the answer to whatever humph-grumph you come up with.
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It's not like this is a new concern.
The correct solution is to point people to an SPV implementation like MultiBit (note: NOT a hosted wallet). It's not being done by the official bitcoin.org site yet because there are still some issues with MultiBit that are fairly important and need to be addressed. Once that's done we can think about changing the default recommendation (which will be a fairly long and tiring debate).
If you care about this, go ahead and write patches for bitcoinj, as that's where most of the problems lie.
I don't think it's so much a concern about there being a lack of alternative wallets, but rather the wide dispersion and sometimes conflicting information out there. The reddit post in OP was the story of someone who wanted to try BTC and obviously knew SOMETHING about bitcoins, but had never come across anything warning against using the official client until it was to late. I always thought weusecoins.org was a really good site, but it still promotes the official client first. |
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In 2024 probably the dollar will be collapsed and 4 or 5 countries in Europe will have their citizens funds seized. I think it will still be worth to wait two or three days for the blockchain to download. And that will be the situation only if the network communications don't improve and the blockchain isn't pruned.
This kind of complains are just trolling compared to the benefits that Bitcoin offers.
Meanwhile, in the real world we have a real issue that is causing real people to turn off from Bitcoin before even trying. I'm not sure why you think your on-high opinion is so important, but it is also irrelevant to this thread. To bad there isn't some sort of, I don't know, foundation or something, that could help address these issues  |
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The problem he had waiting for sync will only get worse as time goes by as well. Imagine him downloading in 2024.
His concern is legit. Bitcoin info is so spread out and confusing.
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No such thing as overkill when it comes to servers!
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WHAT? This is a scam! I'm deleting all my bit-not-coins immediately!
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Wouldn't surreptitiously "infecting" Iran with Bitcoin be considered an act of terrorism by the Iranian government and could help liberate the country and the whole region? However the US might get a little peeved and go after anyone connected with the project after we start translating it to the languages of sanctioned countries?
You're probably right. I never really understood why anyone would think embargoes do anything but hurt the people and make the sanctioned government stronger. Sadly, for any major politician to suggest its a bad idea would quickly find themselves voted out for being "weak" on whatever. As for languages, I don't think the gov't would really care about just straight up translation. There are plenty of people outside Iran who speak Farsi. |
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But it's "illegal" only for USA. And anyway are we sure it's "illegal"?
The embargo on Iran is actually pretty international in scope, and while I doubt there is any piece of documentation regarding the embargo that specifically names bitcoin there are many many restrictions of sending money/gold. |
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I like that Manager is a pronoun. Must be a big hotshot.
While this would be nice, I imagine it was along the lines of the ebay situation last year or so. The rep had no idea what you were talking about and gave you the most polite, non-noncommittal answer.
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It's page 8, the probability was almost 1 anyway  and what we are doing is not a secret, everything is open Heh, fair enough. I think that is kind of the grey-scale debate here. Does a dev himself talking about (and implied approval of) the illegal uses of BTC on a recorded chat matter? I think it does. We all know what the goals of BTC are and I think we should all appreciate the delicate situation that those who are really putting themselves out there are in. |
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What happened is like banning someone because he is saying the racial laws are wrong during the hitler dictatorship, because otherwise the regime would go after you...
That's a half-way-there analogy. Let's say you were doing work that undermined the dictatorship and were secretly helping people out of Nazi Germany...and then everyone got mad at you that you didn't go out on the street and announce what you were doing. Are you mad that the people who were housing Jews in their attic didn't go up to some SS dudes and said, "hey bro, we're hiding some Jews"? Nice Godwinning btw. |
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That is not what I'm seeing. If we go back to the original IRC chat, it was eventually about simply translating Bitcoin software and services to Farsi. That was the final discussion, until it was cut off by a ban. I think that simply translating our software is definitely opposing the oppression but in a fairly silent way. No one has been suggesting a promo campaign to get Bitcoin to Iran, as I've said before.
I would like to get this discussion to where it stopped thanks to Jeff, which is translating Bitcoin services to Farsi. What do you guys think about that? Bitcoin-Qt specifically. LocalBitcoins is already being translated, this episode put some nice motivation to do that.
I think translating into Farsi is fine and a wonderful idea and, of course, perfectly legal. I imagine that jgarzik was just agitated enough by the conversation that came at the start that he saw it as being tied directly to "translate to farsi in order to send BTC directly to Iran". I don't blame him for seeing that way. I imagine that if nothing had been mentioned about Iran and the idea of translating casually came up there wouldn't have been any trouble. |
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I hope that is the case. The problem is that I don't see Iran in the same way as many of US citizens see it. For me Iran is actually in an equal position to US in terms of how I view it as a country. That makes my reaction very different. People in this thread accept this behaviour because they silently support the oppression of Iran. I don't support it for one nanosecond.
Ah, come on dawg. You know that most, if not all, people here don't silently support the oppression. We are having a disagreement on how we could best oppose it without being arrested/BTC compromised. Keep the hyperbole out and you'll get a much better discussion here. |
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They wouldn't need to "attack" them. I'm more and more convinced that just a polite request would be enough for Garzik to implement the perfect surveillance tool for the state to link addresses to people and monitor every flow of coins. Hell, he's trying to implement it right now, in anticipation.
Sad.
Isn't this why bitcoin is open source? So, you could check on this sorta thing? I don't think this is as unreasonable as you guys are making it sound. If you believe in the legalization of certain drugs you might partake/sell those drugs, but I doubt any of you would go around and openly brag and announce that you are doing so in a way that can be tied directly back to you by law enforcement. No one here is complaining that people on Silk Road aren't using their real names and posting their addresses openly. Caution and realism =! cowardice. Guys, there's a real chance here for real discussion/debate but too many of you are just going full-on hyperbolic drama queen. |
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Censoring people leads to 5 page long threads discussing the very topic you wanted people to be silent about.
But not long discussions on #bitcoin-dev which I think is the point? This Iran thing is hardly the most controversial topic to ever come up surrounding bitcoins, so I'm not so sure why people are trying to draw big-ol' lines in the sand over this. The people of Iran deserve bitcoin and by flying under the radar, as BTC has mostly done thus far, they will find it and use it. |
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satoshi, YUNO say hello?
- Hero worship - ranting and raving libertanarchists - stalkers - people sinking their lifesavings into an experimental proof of concept Would YOU stay around? Man, if that isn't your idea of a good time then I don't know what's wrong with you. |
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I just finished another video project and am looking for a new client! Imagine YOUR bitcoin service with a snappy youtube promo! Imagine it...and enjoy.
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I don't call it dogma, I call it boycott and yes I will boycott as much as I can those who don't accept my bitcoins.
If you honestly don't use/read/consult wikipedia ever as part of your boycott, then you are totally in the clear and my argument doesn't really apply to you. And it ain't trollin' if dem facts be true. Fact 1: You claim to want to donate to wikipedia with BTC. Fact 2: You have a way to do so.  |
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