Everybody, please, repeat after me:
"The bitcoins I have on an exchange are not my bitcoins. They are an obligation of the exchange to pay me back said number of bitcoins."
If the exchange gets hacked and loses its bitcoins, it cannot meet that obligation, and you will have no bitcoins to withdraw. Hence, they were not and are not your bitcoins, they belonged to the exchange.
It's like having money in a bank without deposit insurance. It's not actually your money, it's a bank's obligation to pay you back the money on demand. Will they be able to meet that obligation? Who knows.
They are still your bitcoins, because they can be used as them on demand. That's like saying the money I have at the bank is not my money. Really, all money is just an obligation of someone to pay me back for something. |
|
|
|
Typing something as Truth does not make it so. Especially when up against the array of evidence, means and motive to the contrary. Not forgetting Zhou's prime bullshit storytelling.
BB.
This applies to you as well. Need I point out again the array of evidence that Zhou did not steal the funds? |
|
|
|
|
New: July 2012 BTC-E Hack (ranking #11).
|
|
|
|
It is only remotely likely that the VPS was compromised. If it was, there would be more constructive things for the hacker to do than buy up all those coins. The hacker obviously isn't stupid, so the chance the VPS was compromised is low.
Given the bitcoinica hack, you shouldn't build your exchange on a VPS? And the chances that BTC-E cares, much less heeds, security advice is? |
|
|
|
Clearly, Mr. Wubbles is trolling. He claimed he: MrWubbles: I stole the exchanges coin
MrWubbles: in their cold storage wallet
Firstly, it is unlikely btc-e has a cold storage wallet. Secondly, you'd have to be a moron to believe that it can be stolen (as that would require physical access to the computer. Agreed, unlikely they have cold storage. However, there may be people who have backups of the cold storage wallet on the same live system, and if the vps (if it runs on a vps) is compromised, there may be clues leading to further compromise of personal computers for instance, if more servers are used. Poor admin (unless he's in on it of course) It is only remotely likely that the VPS was compromised. If it was, there would be more constructive things for the hacker to do than buy up all those coins. The hacker obviously isn't stupid, so the chance the VPS was compromised is low. |
|
|
|
|
I believe it constructive to repeat these important steps:
1. Sell ALL USD immediately. There is definitely not enough USD to pay out.
2. Withdraw ALL BTC immediately. Unless fractional reserve or cold storage was employed, there should be enough. This is confirmed by one of DeathAndTaxes's experiments.
3. Change passwords for other websites immediately. The database is likely to leak, if a SQL injection was the culprit.
Best of luck to all victims.
|
|
|
|
Firstly, it is unlikely btc-e has a cold storage wallet. Secondly, you'd have to be a moron to believe that it can be stolen (as that would require physical access to the computer.
Why is it unlikely btc-e have no cold storage wallet. Doesn't all exchange have a cold wallet? Btc-e does not have a good track record for security. Considering a SQL injection likely killed them, a cold wallet would be surprising. |
|
|
|
WOW
MrWubbles: I stole the exchanges coin
disclaimer201: didnt get nothing...surprisingly!
MrWubbles: in their cold storage wallet
Definitely false. We've already established that MrWubbles doesn't even have virtual access to BTC-E, let alone physical access. |
|
|
|
Clearly, Mr. Wubbles is trolling. He claimed he: MrWubbles: I stole the exchanges coin
MrWubbles: in their cold storage wallet
Firstly, it is unlikely btc-e has a cold storage wallet. Secondly, you'd have to be a moron to believe that it can be stolen (as that would require physical access to the computer. |
|
|
|
So what that means if you will very soon see HYPER INFLATION on the BTC-E exchange. Think of BTC as the "goods" in the BTC-E economy. The BTC-E USD money supply has been massively inflated but the amount of "goods" (BTC) hasn't. This is the recipe for massive inflation. It was inflated by the hacker/counterfeiter. Normally we think of central banks as the one doing inflating and generally that is true in major economies however any increase in money supply (even illegal ones like counterfeiting) causes inflation As people realize this they will dump USD for BTC driving the price higher and higher and higher. $50, $100, $500, maybe even $25,000 USD per BTC.
By the way, there is a hard cap at $99.99 USD per BTC. So, unfortunately, that will be the equilibrium price. The rest of the BTC will not be sold. |
|
|
|
Why the btc-e is still running?!?!
They have not woken up yet; it's still 7:47 in Moscow. Any luck on your withdrawal? You should be hoping BTC-E still runs! |
|
|
|
Maybe btce had their own reserve stacked on the sells, thats a lot of coins.
That would be a disaster. If true, even BTC will fail to maintain value. |
|
|
|
So as an experiment I deposited BTC sold if for USD, bought the BTC back and withdrew. I got my "test" 0.8 BTC out of the exchange (minus some trading losses).
This makes me very confident that my (and others) original theory was correct. The attacker ONLY increased the amount of USD. Period. Nothing else. There also appears to be some (at least 0.8 BTC as of 2 minute ago) BTC left. Likely the hacker hit some per account limit.
So what that means if you will very soon see HYPER INFLATION on the BTC-E exchange. Think of BTC as the "goods". The BTC-E USD money supply has been massively inflated. As people realize this they will dump USD for BTC driving the price higher and higher and higher. $50, $100, $500, maybe even $25,000 USD per BTC.
There is SOME (who knows how much) real BTC on the exchange but anyone hanging on to USD "profits" is an idiot. Selling USD for BTC at 50%, 70% even 90% loss is better than holding on to a hyperinflating currency. You may say "the money supply is no longer inflating" while that is true price action often lags the actual increase in the money supply. If the hacker increased the USD money supply by say a factor of 50x then eventually USD:BTC will rise by a factor of 50x.
No way BTC-E can pay out all the fake USD so get into the store of value ... BTC.
Well said. I've been urging this for a while. |
|
|
|
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.
I do believe MrWubbles is falsely taking credit. SupaDupaJenkins may be the culprit, however. It's possible it's false, but it seems convincing to me. Maybe I'm too quick to trust people when they say I can't trust them. I'm monitoring the btc-e chat, and they seem to believe Mr. Wubbles is trolling. He had obviously lied before about deleting the database. If Mr. Wubbles had the ability to do that, there would be a much easier way of "hurting the exchange" without hurting its users: withdraw the hot wallet directly. I'm pretty sure that would 'hurt the users' too. Though it wouldn't lure others in. This hurts the users more. Mr. Wubbles has, in this way, not been consistent. At least one of his statements was a lie. |
|
|
|
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.
I do believe MrWubbles is falsely taking credit. SupaDupaJenkins may be the culprit, however. It's possible it's false, but it seems convincing to me. Maybe I'm too quick to trust people when they say I can't trust them. I'm monitoring the btc-e chat, and they seem to believe Mr. Wubbles is trolling. He had obviously lied before about deleting the database. If Mr. Wubbles had the ability to do that, there would be a much easier way of "hurting the exchange" without hurting its users: withdraw the hot wallet directly. I also find it hard to believe Wubbles would take more than 5 blocks to pay out. |
|
|
|
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.
I do believe MrWubbles is falsely taking credit. -retracted needless accusation-, however. Nobody seems to have received payment back. |
|
|
|
.....
Your bitcoin, as long as you withdraw it, should still arrive. Good luck.
Unfortunately, you might have to write off your USD, or sell it at a massive loss. There is no way BTC-E has enough to pay out the USD.
I do not want withdraw "fake USD" from BTC-e... I will not touch that USD. I just want, at least, those 140 BTC (total is 180 I had there for sure), withdraw still "pending" (i.е. not reached my wallet)... :-/ Good luck for those that feel a bit lost now... :-P This is less worse than the "life with the government and banks"... lol Unless one of the following is true, your BTC withdrawal will still go through. - The hacker hacked in BTC as well.
- BTC-E used fractional reserve.
- BTC-E had a cold wallet.
- BTC-E wakes up and discovers the hack.
Yes, I'm telling the truth. It is all here registered in my btc-e account anyway... ;-) I know you are telling the truth. I was reassuring you that the withdrawal will likely eventually go through.
I strongly suggest you discard the USD by selling it, while it is still worth ~1/5 of its actual value. The 40 BTC that is missing has been converted to USD, most likely. You can still retrieve some of that value from it.
How so?! Did you have a sell order open? That may be the reason your BTC is now missing. (since price spiked to 99, all sell orders must have been fulfilled). |
|
|
|
.....
Your bitcoin, as long as you withdraw it, should still arrive. Good luck.
Unfortunately, you might have to write off your USD, or sell it at a massive loss. There is no way BTC-E has enough to pay out the USD.
I do not want withdraw "fake USD" from BTC-e... I will not touch that USD. I just want, at least, those 140 BTC (total is 180 I had there for sure), withdraw still "pending" (i.е. not reached my wallet)... :-/ Good luck for those that feel a bit lost now... :-P This is less worse than the "life with the government and banks"... lol Unless one of the following is true, your BTC withdrawal will still go through. - The hacker hacked in BTC as well.
- BTC-E used fractional reserve.
- BTC-E had a cold wallet.
- BTC-E wakes up and discovers the hack.
I strongly suggest you discard the USD by selling it, while it is still worth ~1/5 of its actual value. The 40 BTC that is missing has been converted to USD, most likely. You can still retrieve some of that value from it. 1. Sell ALL USD immediately. There is almost certainly not enough USD to pay out. How? By buying BTC at $45? 2. Withdraw ALL BTC immediately. Unless fractional reserve was employed, there should be enough. No BTC was reported to have injected, so this may be your only option of financial recovery. I agree that people should do this, but it's not going to work. The exchange has no rational justification for fully reimbursing bitcoin holders while screwing over usd holders. 3. Change passwords for other websites immediately. The database is likely to leak, if a SQL injection was the culprit. Definitely. Better safe than sorry. 1. Yes. This is a massive write-off, but it is the only option. 2. Unless the exchange takes action, the BTC withdrawals should be fully covered and automatic (barring the probability of a cold wallet, but given BTC-E's past security history. |
|
|
|
|
I posted this in the other thread, but it deserves repeating.
Here are my suggestions for all victims.
1. Sell ALL USD immediately. There is almost certainly not enough USD to pay out.
2. Withdraw ALL BTC immediately. Unless fractional reserve was employed, there should be enough. No BTC was reported to have injected, so this may be your only option of financial recovery.
3. Change passwords for other websites immediately. The database is likely to leak, if a SQL injection was the culprit.
Best of luck to all victims.
|
|
|
|
|
Here are my suggestions for all victims.
1. Sell ALL USD immediately. There is almost certainly not enough USD to pay out.
2. Withdraw ALL BTC immediately. Unless fractional reserve was employed, there should be enough. No BTC was reported to have injected, so this may be your only option of financial recovery.
3. Change passwords for other websites immediately. The database is likely to leak, if a SQL injection was the culprit.
Best of luck to all victims.
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
