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2101  Economy / Reputation / Re: Quickseller’s Rumour-Mongering on: February 11, 2018, 10:17:43 PM
Sort of on-topic about Quickseller:  Do you guys think someone (like QS) has control of the Tomatocage account?

I know nothing about Tomatocage, have no time now to investigate, and tend toward caution in airing such suspicions.  But I do think it’s a reasonable suspicion worth investigating, and I can articulate why:  Quickseller has a prior history of obtaining illicit control of a DT account.  Any unexplained DT action beneficial to him should be examined, as a matter of course.

Pills!  Just say no to drugs, kids!

Oh, yes.  I think that drugs are certainly on-topic in this thread:

What some people just do not get:  Before there were drug laws, there was no drug culture.  Libertarians, hippies, and Drug-Warriors all share the same blind spot here.

Indeed, once upon a time, there was the practical opposite of a drug culture.  Before there were drug laws—before there was a drug problem—Western societies were what $YEAR would consider ultra-arch-paleo-conservative.  Yes, you could then buy some heavy-duty drugs at the drug store; that’s why it’s called the drug store!  Yet anybody who became patently dysfunctional from addiction to cocaine, opiates, or for that matter, alcohol would be mercilessly shamed, shunned, humiliated, and outcast from civil society.

Addiction was not (and is not) an “illness”; it was (and is) a character flaw.  Those who overtly demonstrated such flaws could go die in a hole, as far as sane people were concerned.

[...big snip; click through and read if you please...]

People who glorify, condone, or even excuse states of extreme or chronic intoxication can’t and shouldn’t be helped.  For this reason, I fully support instant legalization for most drugs (except marijuana and hallucinogens)—combined with the exclusion of known drug users from all health insurance, welfare, and assistance with food and housing.  Drug abuse would quickly prove itself to be a strictly self-limiting problem.

Druggies, don’t whine.  I am supporting your freedom to kill yourselves!  Others, please join me in fixing the social and cultural problem with its only cure:  Unlimited cold contempt for people whose idea of “fun” is asinine self-destruction.  Drug abuse will only decrease and decease when scum who do drugs are once again “mercilessly shamed, shunned, humiliated, and outcast from civil society.”  I am doing my part.



Bitcoin shows no mercy for those who lose their private keys.  You have ultimate power over your own, and ultimate responsibility for yourself.  Mess up, and you will lose everything—nobody can help you.  There seems to be a lesson there.

You have only one body.  You have only one brain.  Mess those up intentionally, and you will lose everything.  Have a nice trip! ☠
2102  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Fees are low, use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! on: February 11, 2018, 08:59:28 PM
Thank you for making this thread, LoyceV.  You’ve saved me real money.

Since I first saw this, I’ve been doing transactions with fees far lower than I would have otherwise even considered attempting, much less dared to try.  This is not to consolidate anything (I mostly avoid coin-merge), but just for ordinary transactions.

Of course, it should go without saying, I’ve been exclusively using Segwit addresses for months (both nested and native).  That also helps significantly.
2103  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Fork wars are déjà vu on: February 11, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
Namecoin was the first fork if I am not wrong.

Namecoin isn’t a chainfork.  It’s a legitimate altcoin, with its own genesis block, address prefix (preventing the loss-of-funds accidents so common with Btrash!), etc.; it’s also one of the few alts with an interesting idea, rather than being only a cheap imitation of Bitcoin.  It can even be merge-mined with Bitcoin, such that shared hashrate can benefit both separate chains; indeed, Namecoin devs invented the concept of merged mining.  It is not harmful to Bitcoin, or even unfriendly toward Bitcoin.  Its goal isn’t even really to create a new currency, but rather, a new naming system which implements Aaron Swartz’s idea for squaring Zooko’s Triangle.

But the "troubles" started with Mike Hearn (and Gavin Andresen?) and XT. Considering all the forks, only Btrash is cancer. The problem is, unlike others, they spend a lot of energy to confuse people and to push Btrash

Actually, off the top of my head, it started with so-called “BIP 100” (not a real BIP number).  Some old-timer or Bitcoin historian will need to correct me if I’m wrong there.

Regardless, as I said, the felons have learned.  Early attempts only focused on overtaking the whole network all at once, directly from within.  As I recall, XT tried (and laughably failed) to Sybil the network with a bunch of XT nodes run on cloud-computing machines, compliments of Roger Ver.  I think eventually somebody realized the potential of using a separate forkchain for what trademark lawyers call “dilution” of a brand—thus, Btrash.  Not that the total instant coup attempts have stopped; vide 2X, which is dead, but was only the latest in a long line of attempts at that kind.

I think the worst damage earlier coup attempts did was to (0) manufacture the blocksize controversy as an ongoing (and effective) propaganda ploy, (1) delay Bitcoin’s evolution, especially the activation of Segwit.  Segwit should have been active on the network long before August 2017.  We all could have benefitted from that.  We are all at a real, direct loss from increased fees we paid, as well as opportunity cost.



Side note:  I see a persistent recurrence of forum threads over funds loss from sending Bitcoin to a Btrash address (or vice versa).  Also, I see threads discussing problems with trying to install both Bitcoin and “Bitcoin ABC” (i.e. Btrash) on the same machine; Btrash uses the same data directory as Bitcoin, and will happily overwrite Bitcoin files.  Etc., etc.  Btrash deliberately tries to cause as much confusion as it can, in as many damaging ways as it can.
2104  Economy / Reputation / Re: Quickseller’s Rumour-Mongering on: February 11, 2018, 07:46:57 PM
This is a total load of horse shit. The pharmacist is a pimp and was doing a great job. OG is some fucked up individual, mates with QS, taking funds from QS for his scamclub seats and now this. Total horse shit

This is a total load of horse shit.

[Trite and puerile Internet “meme” image: “MMM, YES / YOUR TEARS SUSTAIN ME”]

Glad you are happy fuck face.

I am.  You cry a lot.

It is such threads as this which help us newer folks decide who was right or wrong in old controversies.

That being said, I shall now pass judgment on Internet flaming competence.  As the only member of this forum who has ever received +50 for an insult, as a shriek from the target of the insult, I declare that you are a clumsy amateur, Mr. “Nasty”.  Attempts at style without substance fizzle out as a wet firecracker:  The tantrum of a garden-variety sadist whose namesake aspiration is to be “nasty”, but who does not know how to hit where it hurts.

On the flipside opposite pain, do you also have trouble finding “the spot” with women?  Not that I’d expect you to even try.


Not to bother anybody but I think quickseller is always up to lauda he always end up arguing with lauda, I think this two have a valentine chemistry. And my conclusion is that quickseller has a crush on lauda. LOL.

-
Tom and jerry.

P.S. I'm not making fun I'm serious?.

Beware!  I heard from a friend of a friend that Quickseller is HIV-positive from his time turning tricks on the street near a bathhouse; and Quickseller has not denied this!


And to try and stay on topic, where you at QS??

Shush.  Mr. Quickseller is busy “looking for the real killers”.  That, and/or scamming somebody.  He will make more cheap, transparent excuses present evidence for his accusations when he has a spare moment in his jam-packed VIP schedule of swindling, molesting children, and selling his butt for crack money (as he has not denied).


“Posts like a lion.  +50”


* Lauda growls.

Meow.
2105  Other / Meta / Re: How Do You Feel About This New System?? on: February 11, 2018, 04:08:39 AM
Not giving everybody the same opportunities will lead to people moving on to other forums

Correct. A Bitcointalk fork is being prepared already by a group of members who are fed up with the Lauda gang.

Yeah, the Lauda gang is fearsome.  I thought I was tough enough to survive a “beat-in” for the secret initiation, so I tried to join.  It turns out, Lauda does worse:  A “scratch-in” by cats!  I’m still bleeding from that; and worst of all, they decided that I was too wimpy.  At least they didn’t feed me to the lion—I’m thankful for that, but could Lauda be going soft?


Not giving everybody the same opportunities will lead to people moving on to other forums

Correct. A Bitcointalk fork is being prepared already by a group of members who are fed up with the Lauda gang.

Of course, this has been tried many times in the past already.  If you guys are going to openly invite scammers and spammers, it will be interesting to see how your forum handles them.

In the manner of discovering THE TRUTH!!!, I myself have a pet theory that the merit system is designed as a weapon against Roger Ver’s .com forum playpen.  When all the spammers and trash posters leave, where will they go?  Hahah.


You're making great posts and people like you will have no issue in 'ranking' up. It's just the lazies who got used to being able to fly through ranks just by posting the most generic of shitposts that are going to have great problems. If only they could be bothered putting the same amount of effort they do for the whining about the merit system into the regular posts they'd be no issue at all.

I have read the posts of Nullius and they are indeed extremely good. But he is an exception. The system should work for a decent majority, not only for the truly excellent ones. "people like you" you say, but there are a very few like Nullius, if at all. If only the truly excellent ones can "rank up", then you don't even need this system, you just can pick up that dozen people who is really excellent and give them a Legendary ad honorem rank and that's it. The system should allow a decent majority (or a decent minority) to rank up as if nothing had changed, and just put limits for the indecent minority (or indecent majority). There is still time to improve the system so that this is achieved.

I’m glad you appreciate my posts.  But what you say brings to mind something pertinent which has been sitting in my drafts pile for a few days.  The relevant part is that to “rank up”, it’s not necessary to earn merit at anywhere close to the rate I do.  I can often earn +20–30 per day.  Comparing merit and activity thresholds for rank, the system seems designed with an expectation that an ordinary, decent poster will earn on average about +1 per day.  That sounds reasonable, does it not?


You're making great posts and people like you will have no issue in 'ranking' up. It's just the lazies who got used to being able to fly through ranks just by posting the most generic of shitposts that are going to have great problems. If only they could be bothered putting the same amount of effort they do for the whining about the merit system into the regular posts they'd be no issue at all.

Much obliged.  And yes, I’ve oftentimes wondered about the cost/benefit analysis (not) done by certain people.  The same applies much more strongly for those who sometimes expend extreme efforts trying to gain money or advantage by gutter methods such as spamming, rather than putting less effort into achieving reasonable success by decent means.  But I suppose that here, some people are of a religious belief that divine law entitles them to make money by posting generic one-liners with a signature attached from farmloads of sockpuppet accounts.  How else could the vehemence of their reactions be explained?  Well, too bad for them that there is such intolerance of their religion.


By the way, congratz man, 187 merits wow, thats a good achievement.

Not good enough.  So in the seven days since you wrote that, I’ve added another 113 merits—to get myself started. <g>


Try getting 100 merits for reaching a Full Membership ranking.  Cheesy You'll have to be some kind of Einstein or Mother Theresa to gain such amounts of merits. Or somehow get sucked up into the group of scam moderators. That probably works best around here.  Roll Eyes

100 merits is no problem.  I earned an additional 113 merits just since I last posted in this thread a week ago.  Here is a recent statistical breakdown of where I’m earning my merit.  Dividing out one extraordinary event I don’t deem representative of how merit is earned, the largest proportion of my merit has come from technical posts in Development & Technical Discussion.  But on the other hand, I’ve also oft been deemed meritorious for my vocal support of people who are making an heroic effort to clean up the forum.  —Oops, I meant for “somehow [getting] sucked up into the group of scam moderators.”  So, how would you characterize me?

But it's no use complaining about it. Because the merit system was not designed to merit posts in the first place but rather to keep members from reaching higher rankings. And for that it is doing it's job wonderfully.

Correction:  It’s no use whining.  Likewise, it is no use concocting absurd theories.  Meritorious posts earn merit.  For example, one of my highest-merited posts, “Bitcoin’s Public-Key Security Level”, is currently +18 (including +5 from the tech forum moderator).  Make good posts, and you will earn merit—or don’t, and you won’t.

(I will not even ask what motive theymos is imagined to have for nefariously designing a system to “keep [thoughtfully contributing] members from reaching higher rankings”.  Important words are here inserted.  Logically, if theymos wanted to freeze everybody’s ranks, he could do that much more easily.  Whereas the merit system separates the wheat from the tares; yes, it is designed to stop spammers and morons from rising in rank.)


[blah blah blah] Cheesy

Let’s see:  You created your very own whine thread, declaring a “right to consensus” and demanding that the merit system be put to a “general vote”.  Having succeeded in bringing yourself attention, you got caught by TheQuin passing yourself merit from an alt and red-tagged by Lauda.  Whereupon you promptly diverged into crazyland:  “Maybe [actmyname] and Lauda it's one persone?”  (Hahahah.)

Whining and blustering has worked so well for you in the past.  Keep it up to keep getting the same results!
2106  Other / Meta / Re: Why changing the email and the password is so easy !!!! on: February 11, 2018, 02:52:01 AM
I'm not sure a discussion over whether I am using Bitcoin or not is worth having with a person who doesn't have a phone.

Neither did Satoshi Nakamoto, in this context.  Not that that would matter to one of the ovine imbeciles who exclusively keeps money on exchanges.  Baa, baa.  Do you even know what a private key is?  It is self-evident that you neither know nor care why private keys are important.

Written from my phone  Grin

That’s not something to brag about.  That you think it is, says much about you.  But not as much about you as your attitude about private keys.

The Bitcoin Forum is for users of Bitcoin.  By definition, such people have private keys.  Those who don’t are serfs, living on a master’s estate and at his mercy.  As a serf, you should know your place, and never expect anybody to take your opinion seriously.  How dare you come on the Bitcoin Forum and complain that it’s such an imposition to have a private key?

Well, for starters, I don't care if it's mandatory or not. Which is why I added it as a PS, an afterthought if you will,

Logic failure.  What you said was this:

PS: The phone validation would solve lots of problems with spammers in this forum. Just saying.

How could that even try to solve any spam problems, if it were not mandatory?  I do not expect that spammers would “opt-in”.  Had you been advocating optional SMS “verification”, you would not have suggested it to be an antispam measure.
2107  Other / Meta / Re: Why changing the email and the password is so easy !!!! on: February 11, 2018, 12:58:08 AM
PS: The phone validation would solve lots of problems with spammers in this forum. Just saying.

That would do little against spammers who can easily avail themselves of bulk numbers for SMS; but it would instantly evict me from the forum.  Mandatory phone “validation”!?  It is reprehensible even to suggest that on a forum where many legitimate users, including Satoshi Nakamoto, exclusively connect(ed) through anonymity networks.

Fortunately, this has absolutely zero chance of ever happening here; and it’s a waste of everybody’s time for you to even mention it.

Staking Bitcoin address? Well, sorry that I don't have a permanent one. All my Bitcoin addresses are given to me by exchange sites so there would be no point.

If you don’t control your own private keys, then you are not using Bitcoin.  Forgive me if I am underwhelmed by your opinions about the Bitcoin Forum.
2108  Other / Meta / Re: Rejoice! Actmyname is soon to be demoted on: February 10, 2018, 11:33:21 PM
You won't win here, buddy. It's already a cult. Noticed the merit stats? It's one big circle jerking group of guys giving merits among themselves. And the concentration of the merit activity is centered here in the Meta section.

Some few merits are spread out to parts of the Bitcoin discussion, but the larger sections of this lame forum have almost no merit activity at all. And that speaks volumes of what kind of people the seniority here are.

Not true.  I will use myself as a handy counterexample.

Counting with a 1-based index unlike a C programmer, I am currently #7 on the list of all-time top-merited users.  My rank is currently “Member”; I already have sufficient merit to skip up two ranks to “Sr. Member”.  Whereas the soonest I can reach the activity threshold for “Sr. Member” status will be on 17 July 2018 at 20:40:00 UTC.

Following is the breakdown of where I’ve earned my merit thus far.  The largest proportion has come from Development & Technical Discussion, where I am proud to have recently become the first (and thus far, only) person yet awarded merit by Core developer gmaxwell.  Here in Meta and elsewhere, I’ve also been trying to contribute to the efforts of DT members who are protecting the integrity of the merit system; but in the ordinary course of discussion, I haven’t been awarded as much merit for that as for my tech posts.

46.4%137Development & Technical Discussion
31.2%92Meta (in the ordinary course of discussion)
16.9%50An unrepeatable historic forum first-and-only in Meta:  I flamed a man so harshly that he gave me +50 for it!  My pen is a mightier sword.
3.4%10Reputation
2.0%6Bitcoin Discussion
99.9%295Total

(Percentages do not always add up to 100.0% due to rounding.)

So much for your absurd theories.  The merit system is very simple:  Meritorious posts earn merit.  For example, one of my highest-merited posts, “Bitcoin’s Public-Key Security Level”, is currently +18 (including +5 from the tech forum moderator).  Make good posts, and you will earn merit—or don’t, and you won’t.


d) Empathy is a weakness. All it does is cloud your judgement, thus severely impacting your ability to think rationally.

I gave +1 for the rest of your post, plus +1 for that alone.


Empathy is a weakness ? Without empathy human would not have live so long time, it's the base of our society/family/clan !

You have it backwards, upside-down, and inside-out (as most people who make armchair historical arguments usually do).  Society collapsed (past tense) in large part from a surfeit of “empathy”.  “Society/family/clan” worked by honour and the sword, hierarchy, obedience, group loyalty, and merciless shaming and shunning of social traitors and misfits.  Not by bleeding hearts and sob stories.  The world today is drowning in empathy.  The meek are inheriting the Earth; and of course, they will wail and gnash their teeth over a merit system which stops them from inheriting the Bitcoin Forum, too.


Without empathy human would not have live so long time, it's the base of our society/family/clan !
Appeal to tradition. Just because we might have needed empathy before in order to survive, that doesn't mean that we need it today. Furthermore, just because it might have been useful before that doesn't mean that it is useful today.

There, you are wrong; for tradition stands falsely accused of an “empathy” which it never had.  This thing called “empathy” by our contemporaries who use it as a religious byword implies empathy for the weak, stupid, diseased, degenerate, cowardly, incompetent, and outright criminal.  I have never heard anyone cry that we must have “empathy” for superior achievements.  Think about it rationally:  “Empathy” is inimical to survival.  Any species with too much of it will prove to be an evolutionary dead-end.

Nature never had any “empathy”—or for that matter, mercy.  Neither does Bitcoin, whose first commandment is to keep safe your private keys:  If you lose your private keys, then you lose all.  If you fail to secure your private keys, then Bitcoin will reward a thief and punish you.  You may cry, scream, shake your fist, preach about “empathy”—it will not help, and nobody can help you.  The judgment of Bitcoin is cold, merciless, exacting, mathematically precise—and final, without any court of appeal.  It is the judgment of pure cause and effect, a financial law which echoes both physical law and the moral laws of older forms of Hinduism.  And as such, Bitcoin excludes the vagaries of human arbiters, human emotions—human corruption.  For those who are willing to take ultimate responsibility for themselves in exchange for ultimate power over themselves, Bitcoin grants freedom.  For the rest—well, I am surprised to hear people whining about “empathy” in the Bitcoin Forum.

I have helped thousands of users here over the years, and felt no empathy towards any case. You do not need empathy to help someone. You were saying?

Being a reasonable person with decent premises, you miss the contrary unstated premises of the “empathy” brigades.  The purpose of the “empathy” religion is not to induce people to help others, or achieve any other constructive goal whatsoever.  Rather, “empathy” is designed to create an inverted moral hierarchy with pitiable wretches at the top, and you at the bottom.  Its ultimate end is to destroy the very concept of superiority of achievement, and thus stop all achievement.  The architects of the general class of philosophies which converge as antecedents to today’s “empathy” were and are motivated by one or more of hatred for all mankind, blind jealousy, idealization of primitive hunter-gatherer societies and “noble savages”, and/or psychotic delusions (e.g. Auguste Comte; I categorize Rousseau similarly, on grounds that he frankly admitted being unable to cope with reality).

Please go on actually helping people, for whatever non-empathetic reasons you may have.


KWH, I know you were being sardonic, but I got PMs like this when I was tagging shitposters:
I have two children, should I finance
I will not repeat it
I beg your remove my trust for negative. I will not repeat it
I have no work other than in the forums
I am sorry
Thank you
And I found it extremely sad, but the fact is that these people are ruining their "workplace" and should be "fired".

When I was young, I was given the advice that the hardest part of being a boss is firing people.  When you call some incompetent fool on the carpet and his eyes get all wide, and you think a grown man might start to cry as he begins to stammer about his kids and his wife and how much he needs this job, then you yourself are being tested for whether or not you be boss material.

If you give a damn for his sob story, then you are cruel:  Cruel to all the competent workers who also have wives and kids and families, and are breaking their backs carrying the incompetent fool as worse than deadweight.  I myself “empathize” with competence.  If you have a heart, then you must realize that firing the fool makes the workplace more efficient so that you can give everybody else a raise in wages.

Whereas here on the forum, the spammers are killing the goose which lays the golden eggs for them.  Let them rot with their own myopia.  I don’t care if they are (or claim to be) poor, have kids, or whatever—whatever.  “Please, sir, I really really really need to spam” is not an argument which moves me.  Substitute any other crime for “spam”, and the same applies.

(Aside:  I myself have real-life experience with desperation brought by ill circumstance, hardship, hunger, ailing health, and outright homelessness.  I would win any game of one-downsmanship before a jury of bleeding hearts.  I dislike mentioning that, and shan’t discuss it further, because I have something called dignity; and it does not give me any special credibility in this argument, as if only those who have had it tough can pass judgment on wrongdoing.  I bring this up only to point out that in my experience, those who have had easy lives seem most susceptible to catching “empathy”.  I infer from that a misplaced sense of guilt.  Whereas those who face genuine life-and-death hardship either become degenerate beggars, or embrace the lesson that the strong survive and the weak perish.  “Builds character.”)


[...]

Aren't you in here for financial gain too? The pot calling the kettle black. Disable your paid signature and then spend all your time here doing God's work spreading those well-deserved negative ratings for free out of the goodness of your heart  ;D It's so funny how the most vocal, narcissistic individuals on the DT network are running paid signatures. You all must have very peculiar psychological profiles lol.

Well, here’s a “Legendary” who is unable to distinguish between a user who contributes to the forum and has a sig ad, versus a user who comes here only to spam the forum to make money off sig ads.  F in logic.


You're wrong, lol. Empathy it's one of the most important principles of humanism.  [snip tortuous armchair historian-psychologist argumentation]

No, not really.  Also, please look up the word “humanism”.  It is one of the words most abused by pseudointellectuals who have no idea what they’re talking about.  I myself would claim (or at least aspire) to be a “humanist”, in the Renaissance sense.  I totally reject the concept of “empathy”.


[...]

I think you've got it wrong. Why would you care for someone that doesn't affect you at all? You can't compare empathy in earlier years and now. Communities were smaller and you kind of got to know and benefit from one another.

You almost hit the nail on the head.  See what I said above about “group loyalty”.  The only part you missed is that to “empathy” advocates, this isn’t a bug:  It’s a feature.  So-called “empathy” is nothing more than a toxic social solvent which forces people to not only embrace the lowest common denominator, but expand it beyond your own village’s idiots to include every poor wretch in the whole wide world.


Drop it, the lot of you. This is childish.

Drop the “lot of you” false equivalencies, or else I will stomp my feet and hold my breath until I turn blue.
2109  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How would it be know if a segwit thieft actually happened? on: February 10, 2018, 11:34:11 AM
Another limited reply:

I remember thinking nullc was nullius due to the similarity!! i did later see that it was Gregory Maxwell.

To be clear, I had my heart set on “nullius” as a favoured nym for a future project years before I ever heard of nullc.  My attachment to the nym is why I made the mistake of beginning to use it without checking for collisions with existing use.  (I’m not the “nullius” on Reddit, either; I’ve never had a Reddit account.)

I’ll take it as quite a compliment if you mistook Gregory Maxwell for me!

I wanted to add that this discussion also puts light to the fact that this "dishonest miner" scenario is kept in check because normal users, small merchants CAN run full nodes. That should explain why keeping block size within sustainable limits is important. A lower block size keeps the entry-barrier for running a full node as low as possible.

Good point.  Thus, is it any wonder that

Jihan and co

are leading big-blockers?  Cui bono?


[Snipped long quote from Mircea Popescu. — nullius]

Im not too familiar with this but apparently MP got a lot of bitcoins, and these guys are not trying to scam anyone with shitcoins (forks included) and as far as I understand they are trying to do what's best for bitcoin, so I value their opinion on the matter. I would like to know what you think and why there are big discrepancies with Core, because these must be real technical reasons, since again, they aren't selling their own scamtoken, as Roger and co do.

Thank you for focusing on “real technical reasons”.  In the twentieth post I made to this forum as a “Newbie”, I wrote:

So as for ulterior motives to oppose Segwit.  What overt arguments are advanced by the anti-Segwit side?

On the presumption that Segwit-haters must have at least some plausible excuse for their position, I have spent far too many hours searching the Net and reading what they say.  My objective:  Find even one good reason to oppose Segwit on technical grounds.  Yet despite my such efforts, I have never seen a valid technical argument against Segwit.

Now, let’s see what “real technical reasons” are offered by the evidently intelligent gentleman of whom you speak:

Mircea Popescu’s primary technical argument against Segwit is, “There’s a one Bitcoin reward for the death of Pieter Wuille.”  (Dr. Pieter Wuille, a/k/a sipa, is one of the principal codesigners of Segwit; he is gmaxwell’s esteemed colleague.)

Quote from: Mircea Popescu
The first party to produce a verifiable death certificate for one Pieter Wuille, aka sipa, last known to exist somewhere around KU Leuven in Belgium will receive payment of 1 (one) Bitcoin to any valid* Bitcoin address of his specification.

===

* Valid Bitcoin addresses start with a "1".

Well, there are your “real technical reasons”, cellard.  The red colour is here presented exactly as Popescu put it on his blog.  To show that this was a serious technical argument, he PGP-signed it; the following has been confirmed by me to bear a signature dated 2015-12-10T14:25:01Z from Popescu’s PGP key, fingerprint 0x6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452:

Code:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

The first party to produce a verifiable death certificate for one Pieter Wuille, aka sipa, last known to exist somewhere around KU Leuven in Belgium will receive payment of 1 (one) Bitcoin to any valid* Bitcoin address of his specification.

===

* Valid Bitcoin addresses start with a "1".
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
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=DDdo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

N.b. that unlike most of the anti-Segwit crowd, Popescu is against P2SH, too.  He really means it when he claims that the only valid Bitcoin addresses start with a “1”.

Caveat lector.  Generally, Popescu states many truths, including a few controversial ones; he liberally mixes that with half-truths, innuendo, bare assertions of questionable factuality (or worse), and occasionally, outright nonsense.  He is obviously intelligent.  He excels at showmanship.  He is probably effective at overawing and brainwashing many readers.  I have no idea what his game is, and he is not sufficiently important for me to attempt divining his motives.

The first draft of this post followed the foregoing with a long discussion of Popescu and his tirades against Segwit and otherwise, including some links to choice bits amidst his voluminous writings.  I also thought to discuss the IRC log you quoted (which, by the way, had been quoted by another poster with derision toward Popescu—did you not notice when you quoted that?).  But I must ask, is that really necessary?

My long search for a valid technical argument is at an end; for I have found the ultimate argument of Segwit-haters:  “There’s a one Bitcoin reward for the death of Pieter Wuille.”  Thank you, Mr. Popescu.



You know, this is a recurring topic.  In a thread in December titled “Segwit is a 51% attack on Bitcoin”, I myself offered some more valid technical arguments against Segwit, equal in soundness to all anti-Segwit arguments I have ever seen:

Segwit sinner, dare ye blaspheme Bitcoin Jesus?  If you squint at it hard enough, you can see a 666 in the Segwit logo.  It is hidden and double-crossed inside itself within an ancient Satanic symbol called the Iron Knot of Thermopylae:


And if you play the Segwit jingle backwards, you can hear it say, “Hail Satan!”

The number 51 is also clearly a reference to Area 51.  If Segwit is a 51% attack against Bitcoin, as OP so cogently explained, then how could the grey aliens not be involved!?  Try explaining that away, Segwit shill.

I know this is all true, because I read it on /r/btc.

But that’s not the worst.  There is a frightening secret to Segwit; but I can’t tell you about it, because theymos would ban me.
2110  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How would it be know if a segwit thieft actually happened? on: February 10, 2018, 04:05:03 AM
It's sad that people are getting bamboozled by malicious disinformation on this subject.

I wish to reply to some of the other above posts; perhaps later.  For now, I want to explain something about this post I gave +40.

Bitcoin would not be what it is today without the efforts of a select few people, including Greg Maxwell (gmaxwell).  Without them, Bitcoin would be slower, less reliable, and less secure.  Early on, the Satoshi software was run-and-gun cypherpunk code; it was important because it created Bitcoin, but many parts were—problematic.  Nowadays, despite some necessarily remaining idiosyncrasies in the RPCs, etc., Core is a product of professional software engineering.  This is thanks to the work of many contributors, but principally among them, a few who have more or less dedicated their lives to the project.

Money can’t buy the combination of expertise and devotion which gmaxwell has given to Core.  That can only be bought by ideological dedication to the freedom made by a new form of money.  I’m not saying this to praise gmaxwell; I doubt he needs some Internet hagiography.  Rather, I want to make sure that newbies reading this will understand who gave the answer I deemed to merit +40 (which would have been +50, but the system wouldn’t let me).  He’s not just someone who knows what he’s talking about:  He’s someone who helped make what we’re talking about.  I think he knows how it works.

gmaxwell (a/k/a nullc) is also active in places where Bitcoin is discussed, and used to be much more active here in those days from the archives of the Bitcoin Forum as I wish I could experience it.  To variations of the same disinformation, he’s given that same answer (often at greater length) so many times over the years that I really only gave him a few millimerits for each time he’s explained this.  Sorry about that.
2111  Other / Meta / Re: Why changing the email and the password is so easy !!!! on: February 10, 2018, 01:01:26 AM
I think this actually might be helpfull because, new people don't know about signed messages until its too late and they got their accounts stolne,

This is why I think user education is important.  For a forum dealing with what is now colloquially called “crypto”, only an astonishly small proportion of users are crypto-savvy.

One of my first thoughts on seeing anything Bitcoin-related is, “Why isn’t public-key crypto used for all authentication?”  Of all places, the Bitcoin Forum should lead with that!  If you use Bitcoin, you should also use PGP, at the bare minimum; and the attention brought by Bitcoin makes for an opportunity to introduce more people to what old cypherpunks call “crypto”, resulting in more security all-around.

having a good or a bad password is not the issue,

Password crackers would beg to differ.  Most passwords are laughably weak.  The way you said that, I am guessing that that includes your password, too.

anyone is vulnerable to get hacked,

In this context, that’s the wrong attitude; it encourages people to give up and keep their security weak.  Yes, everything out there is broken.  The state of the industry is horrific.  Most people have bad security because they don’t care about security, don’t put any effort into it—and won’t pay for it, which is why the state of the industry is horrific.

I think the NSA could probably hack me.  I’m sure that forum account thieves can’t.  So much for “anyone is vulnerable”.
2112  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Fork wars are déjà vu on: February 10, 2018, 12:34:16 AM
I’ve been drafting a longer reply, now much delayed.  I appreciate the insightful discussion—and especially that “Bcash. LOL”.  LoyceV, are you trying to induce me to donate to TPB?  They deserve a tip just for that.

Yet important though it is to properly inform people about the scamforks of the present, my point in OP is that this has all happened before—well, most of it.  The attacks on Bitcoin are now far better organized and more sophisticated.  Also, as I said in OP, Bitcoin itself is much stronger.  “Compare-and-contrast” with scenarios of the past can give the perspective most newbies lack when seeing these controversies for the first time.

E.g., apropos hereof in another active thread, we find Greg Maxwell discussing the anti-Segwit “anyone can spend” disinformation:

We didn't see these same sorts of malicious FUD with P2SH though it was exactly the same-- I guess because back then felons hadn't figured out how to monetize that sort of confusion.

Oh no, P2SH in Bitcoin and Btrash betrays Satoshi’s vision and lets miners seize “anyone-can-spend” funds with a 51% attack!  I think we should fork Bitcoin from—what was the last version without P2SH?  Off the top of my head, v0.5?  How do you propose that we should purify the blockchain of all these horrible P2SH transactions?  Most importantly, what is a spiffy name for this fork?  “Bitcoin Devolution” has a nice ring to it, but I’m open to suggestions.  The real Bitcoin only allows payment to addresses which start with a “1” (or payments to IP addresses, which Satoshi also envisioned and had as a feature in early versions).

Well, anyway, the felons have learned.  So have long-time Bitcoiners.  Hey, Legendaries, what do you remember about “XT”, “Unlimited”, “BIP 100”, and various other wannabe coups?  How much of what happens now is just “same old, same old” to you?  You’ve got that perspective the newbies lack; please share it!
2113  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Random Number On Blockchain on: February 09, 2018, 02:11:28 AM
truedeckTeam, why not a commit-and-reveal scheme where each participant commits a hash of a random value, then reveals the value, and all values are hashed together?  In my prior post, I provided links to one such system.  I don’t know if that meets your criterion for “decentralized”; you did not specify your requirements quite clearly.
It may have some problems, suppose
We played a game on decentralised platform like blockchain. Now if we take inputs from each users and ask them to send hash , then one who will collect those hashes gains the power to predict what will be the number. So game will be somewhat centralised .

No, the one who collects the hashes would not be able to predict the outcome.  That is one of the purposes of committing hashes.

0. Collect commitments H(A), H(B), H(C).  Observe that A, B, and C remain secrets; each is known only to the person who generated it.  Thus, the outcome of #3 below cannot be predicted by anybody.  Every participant should have a copy of all hash commitments before proceeding to the next step.  After these commitments are all made, the outcome cannot be changed—yet it is still unknown to anybody!

1. Collect the revealed A, B, C.  Observe that the people who generate these cannot now change them to influence the outcome, because:

2. Verify the revealed A, B, C respectively hash to the committed H(A), H(B), H(C).  All participants can verify this independently.

3. Calculate H("my protocol" || A || B || C).  This is the outcome.  All participants can calculate this independently.

That’s a simplified version of protocols actually in use.  Did you read the Tor specifications as to which I linked?

(I may potentially have further thoughts; but let’s start there.)
2114  Other / Meta / Re: MY FRIEND ACCOUNT WAS BANNED on: February 09, 2018, 02:03:54 AM
Others have read the subject line as missing a possessive clitic “’s”.  That’s how I first read it, before I read the post.

Instead, I think that “pvtuan34897” was missing a comma and a possessive pronoun:  “My friend, [my] account was banned”.

From what I have seen, “my friend” exceeds “sir” in frequency of use as a form of address by posters whom we do not want here.  NO, I AM NOT YOUR FRIEND.  IF YOU PRESUMPTUOUSLY CALL ME YOUR FRIEND, THEN I WILL AUTOMATICALLY HATE YOU.  YES, I AM SHOUTING.  YES, YOU SHALL ADDRESS ME AS “SIR” WHEN YOU TELL ME THAT YOU ARE LEAVING:  “Sir, I am sorry for spamming the forum; and I will show the substance of my remorse by leaving forever.”
2115  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How would it be know if a segwit thieft actually happened? on: February 09, 2018, 01:04:26 AM
Most likely you already know about the theory of the colliding miners planning a 51% attack to steal funds of transactions sitting on segwit addresses.

That’s not a “theory”.  It is a disturbingly pernicious and persistent urban legend about Segwit, predicated on a common misconception about the role of miners.  Miners have one, only one, and exactly one job:  To provide the ordering of transactions in a Byzantine fault-tolerant manner (which in turn prevents double-spends).  That’s what miners do.  That is all miners do.  Granted, it is an important and resource-intensive job; that’s why miners get paid for it.  But that is the one and only security function of miners.

Of course, miners must validate each block they produce; if they didn’t, they would be unable to reliably produce valid blocks.  But miners are not the parties responsible for enforcing validation on the network.  Full nodes do that.  Each individual full node does that, so as to provide better security for its owner; and all full nodes collectively do that, thus providing validation security for the whole network.  Observe how here as everywhere, Bitcoin precisely aligns the individual’s selfish interest with the common good.

Full nodes do not blindly “follow the longest chain”.  They follow the chain independently validated by them which has the highest total POW.  A miner (or 51+% of miners) who produced invalid blocks would only be wasting hashrate, and likely risking widespread blacklisting of IP addresses.  It doesn’t matter if the invalid blocks steal money from Segwit transactions, steal money from old-style transactions, create 21 billion new coins, or are filled with gibberish from /dev/random.  An invalid block is an invalid block, and shall be promptly discarded by all full nodes—period.

In the event that it actually happened, would there be any way to prove it, or it would be seen just as a regularly sent transaction?

That begs the question:  It can’t actually happen.  Segwit transactions require signatures, just like old-style transactions.  Segwit transactions have security greater than or equal to old-style transactions in each and every characteristic.  If a miner could somehow steal Segwit funds with a 51% attack, then the same attack could be used against all bitcoins, including Satoshi’s coins.  But such an attack is impossible; the whole idea is ridiculous, just nonsense peddled by Btrash supporters so that

Jihan and co

can smear the Segwit upgrade.  And why do they hate Segwit?  Because the Segwit upgrade stops

Jihan and co

from covertly exploiting a security vulnerability which gives an unfair advantage of up to 30% in the energy costs of mining.  Of course, they will hate Segwit; and their cronies and shills lie about Segwit.  Give them no credence.



DannyHamilton is correct on all points here.  I just have a few things to add or expand upon.


I think OP is alluring to the anyone-can-spend "vulnerability" that has been a talking point against the SegWit softfork for a while. What usually got ignored during this discourse was that "exploiting" this attribute of SegWit transactions would require a hardfork, basically rolling back BTC's SegWit upgrade and creating a shittier version of BCH.

I always wonder why nobody stops to notice that the same “attack” based on the “anyone-can-spend” notion could be used against all P2SH transactions.  Oh no, Btrash is also vulnerable!


miners have complete power

WRONG.

Miners are the ones who control the network

WRONG.

I am sometimes amazed at the confident airs put on people who make authoritative-sounding declarations of totally incorrect information.


As i know, witness data contains signature. So, miners could do that without private key if i understood it right.
Here is good topic about it - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1434842.0

Interesting link.  Did you read past the OP?  Try the second post, to which I just awarded merit:

Is the following scenario valid?

1. Some unhonest segwit mining pool takes top-1000 segwit utxo and mines a block at height N with a transaction which transfers all funds to his p2pkh address
2. This block does not have segwit data portion, but it can be broadcasted to all non-segwit nodes on the network
3. All other pools have a dilema - wait the segwit data associated with this block or start mining block N+1 on the top of N
4. What if miners will use SPV-mining on the top of this block? They will create blocks at heights N+1, N+2... etc without checking the segwit-validity of block N

No different than the situation today with "spend all the coins in the first 10000 blocks, without knowing the private key; and hope that miners extend the chain without having or checking the block. The segwit data is not sent separately.

In either case the corrupt chain would be simply reorged out after miners hit their limit of mining without data or otherwise some process realizes they are mining a chain the network is rejecting. Non-validating clients would be exposed to the reorganization, ones that are validating would not be.
2116  Other / Meta / Re: Why changing the email and the password is so easy !!!! on: February 09, 2018, 12:10:24 AM
All you need currently to keep your account secure is very good password.

That means a randomly generated password of sufficient length, used only for this site and nowhere else.  May I suggest use of a good password manager (non-“cloud”-based).

You also need to prevent your computer from being compromised.  Accounts are not being hacked.  Users are being hacked.
2117  Other / Meta / Re: 2 weeks after on: February 08, 2018, 11:54:02 PM
I like movies that show how society will eventually break down.

Please fix your grammar.  Future tense is incorrect here, as is your usage of the adverb “eventually”.

The post is exactly how I intended it to be worded.  Smiley

Society cannot continue even another hundred years the way we are now.

I thought it clear, my implication was past-tense.  You are most of a hundred years out of date for the collapse of anything which could be properly called a functioning “society”.  Some might say, more than a hundred years.  The problem is that those living in a post-apocalyptic desert of downfallen, zombie-like anthropoids have already forgotten what it means to be human—what it meant, once upon a time.

By comparison, Roman society was a zombified rotting corpse for four or five centuries before the civil machine built by long-gone forebears ran out of momentum.  I can see how greater technology could have accelerated the ultimate downfall in various ways.

What’s left is to secure yourself, take care of your own, live by honour alone whereas law is meaningless, keep busy with something productive, and try to have some fun.


We would all be better off as hunter gatherers.

Hell, no.  Primitivist glorification of savagery is fit only for savages.  It would be better for so-called “humanity” to go extinct—a not unlikely end, at this rate.


Non-native speaker stopping by. What's wrong with his wording? Future tense is used for making predictions, right? Could you elaborate?

It was a sociopolitical statement wrapped with dry humour in the guise of a grammar flame.  There was nothing wrong with Vod’s grammar, insofar as it properly expressed what he meant to say.  I was subtly suggesting that the event he described in future tense is an eventuality which already occurred, past perfect.


My wording was correct because I was making a prediction.  I believe nullius has a more optimistic view of the future than I do.  Smiley

To the contrary!  You have it backwards.  I wish I had just pushed through the post which comprises the first part above.  I kept having to pause and go add replies to additional posts.  This happens to me all too often.

“Optimism is cowardice.” — Spengler (writing most of a hundred years ago)



Now, this discussion is far off-topic.  If you want to take it up in Politics & Society, then... no, actually, I don’t.  I think I should leave it at that, and go do something productive and/or have fun.
2118  Other / Meta / Re: 2 weeks after on: February 08, 2018, 11:16:45 PM
I like movies that show how society will eventually break down.

Please fix your grammar.  Future tense is incorrect here, as is your usage of the adverb “eventually”.
2119  Economy / Reputation / Re: Quickseller’s Rumour-Mongering on: February 08, 2018, 11:09:17 PM
I am not ignoring this. I am working on some research about a somewhat related issue so I can respond.

Filed somewhere between “the check is in the mail” and “looking for the real killers”.


Why doesn't everyone just agree to put quickseller on ignore? Feeding the troll makes him happy

Usually, I would agree with you.  But in this context, “everyone” is necessarily limited to those who are familiar with the situation.  Surely, that must be a minority of forum members; what about the rest?  That means not only readers but also potential customers, insofar as Lauda does business on the forum.

I think that Quickseller is trying to seriously damage Lauda here.  (Punitive damages terms such as “actual malice” come to mind.  That’s the worst; selling a DT account to a scammer only seems like “wanton and willful disregard” to me.)  I think the attempt will fail; but it could succeed, if rumour-mongering were to be left unanswered.  The key is to pay just the right amount of attention, not too much (amplifying it) and not too little (letting baseless accusations take root as rumours).

(On a related note, there should be a FAQ somewhere with an entry, “Why is Quickseller the single most distrusted active user on the forum?”)


That's the ultimate honor that one can attain here; being accused of being a cat Tongue

“Posts like a lion.  +50”
2120  Other / Meta / Re: Why changing the email and the password is so easy !!!! on: February 08, 2018, 10:42:51 PM
The problem is not on the signed message of the stacked btc address, but in the security weakness.

What security weakness?  The users’ security weakness?  If you know of a security weakness in the forum, please report it and collect a bounty!

If the hacker knows the pseudo and the password of bitcointalk account, he can easily hack your account, and you can't do anything,

If a hacker knows the username and password, then there is nothing to hack!  That’s like saying that if a hacker knows your Bitcoin private keys, he can “hack” your wallet.

1- Improve the bitcointalk account security using email verification when anyone login with a new device into the account.

That would be extremely annoying, and of little or no use to users who know how to secure their own passwords.  Also, for Tor users, it would effectually mean an e-mail verification for each and every login.

2- Add a phone verification in case of login with a new device.

I don’t have a phone.  (At least, not one that you or the forum will ever know about.)  What do you suggest I should do?

3- Add a new procedure for recovering a hacked account that doesn't take too much time.

I have a better idea:

4. Choose a strong password, and keep it secure.

HTH.
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