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2141  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Motivated by "breaking the code" on: August 02, 2021, 09:35:21 PM
Most of the people here may tell that the reason people seemingly humanizes what are otherwise non-living items was because of motivation is a bit incorrect for me. If you have watched Cast Away, you'd remember that Tom Hanks made a companion out of a volleyball and gave it a name, even going so far as to risk his life for it when he found out that he is not with him upon deserting the island. The point I am trying to make is that people may sometimes attach themselves to items that they have spent quite the time or effort with, almost to the point of humanizing them, that's why some people name their cars. The fact that they spent fortune and of course irretrievable time with the car or in your case the slot machine was enough to at least endow them with humane attributes.
You'll know that it's so hard because he was challenge by that slot machine and claiming that he'll beat that. I think he's motivated to win a game and I think this kind of person has a higher chance of getting addicted as he already challenging the gambling game, won't stop until he beat it. No one can break the code, you'll still lose if you're unlucky and even you're super motivated to play hard.


Aside from luck and a very good emotion control nothing left for you but to lose even how motivated you are,

Most of the time gamblers think that way, they are energize thinking that they are can keep grinding out from the slots.

But in reality, most of that people who shared similar mindsets often lose a huge amount of money, and have a higher chance of  getting addicted to gambling.

Play and enjoy, never to think that you can easily beat the machines, it won't work that way!
Thing is this is a bias of our brain that had been there since time immemorial, we can work around it but we will always fall under the same pit over and over again eventually. Although of course, just because it has been there as a part of our instinct doesn't mean it's normal.
2142  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If it is more convenient for people to buy Bitcoin, will Bitcoin be more popular on: August 01, 2021, 09:59:03 PM
Convenience definitely plays a huge role in the opinion of people towards bitcoin. A huge number of the populace are well aware of bitcoin's existence courtesy of social media and various news outlets that give out updates regarding said cryptocurrency, but only a small handful are able to invest because of the fact that not everyone is knowledgeable in the manner of bitcoin acquisition, while some just don't think that bitcoin isn't just worth the extensive, and expensive process of acquiring it. Still, in the following years we expect bitcoin to become more accessible to the common Joe, so we could see a greater increase in the volume of investors and supporters.
it's true as you said comrade, if only bitcoin was easy to use like fiat banknotes, most likely bitcoin would be more popular than now, even though bitcoin is still difficult for us to learn but now it can be said that there are many people who play in bitcoin, in when the pandemic hit the world, most people lost their jobs, that's where people started to turn to bitcoin, and try to learn bitcoin, and try to make money by playing in bitcoin.. although it's difficult but many people are familiar with bitcoin,
Fiat banknote literally took hundreds of years to become adopted, as technology and the human intelligence progresses, we may not need to wait that long to see bitcoin taking over the monetary scene. Just needs a catalyst that will spark people's interest towards bitcoin, and a much more accessible manner of acquisition for bitcoin.
2143  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin is key to the future of Twitter, Jack Dorsey says on: August 01, 2021, 07:56:20 PM
Efforts to monetization in the space of twitter has been made and as far as I know is already mobilized, it will actually be a great boost in bitcoin's popularity if ever Jack Dorsey implements this feature, although I can see that it could also cause some detriments in the manner to which bitcoin operates in the market. For instance, price drop is imminent and is a huge possibility because as much more people are given the chance to own bitcoin, a number of them will choose to sell it for fiat to facilitate their daily purchases. Another is the false perception that bitcoin is nothing more than glorified venmo, cashapp, or the likes.
More and more people who are in big places end up supporting crypto, that is a good thing, I really like that we are actually seeing specifically twitter founder as well because dude is in charge of all the crypto world at this point. Look at twitter and you will see that most of the crypto world is writing there, it is basically a niche for politics and crypto at this point because those are the biggest things going around in crypto, there is a bit of sports as well I have to say that but only on big things, aside from that 99% of the time in my nation at least its either politics or crypto on twitter.

And if crypto loves twitter so much then founder of twitter liking bitcoin so much is also a very good thing, it shows that love is not one sided and comes from both sides. This is going to only help crypto to get better and better in the future.
Hopefully this does not stagnate bitcoin's applications and allow it to instead be a gateway for future pieces of technology integrating bitcoin or blockchain for that matter. The way I see it, this is a big and promising move from Jack Dorsey with the detriments I mentioned earlier not really becoming a big deal when we consider the opportunities this could offer to bitcoin.
2144  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Reasons to Invest in Bitcoin?? on: July 31, 2021, 11:38:34 PM
There is still some risk of devaluation but since it is not tied to the dollar that is susceptible to hyperinflation, not to mention the fact that bitcoins and cryptocurrencies with limited supply aren't subject to inflation, we only feel this devaluations when the price of bitcoin dumps. All of the things you just mentioned are indeed sound reasons to invest in bitcoin, but before anyone who isn't aware of what bitcoin really is about misconstrue this venture as a get-rich-quick scheme, there should be a clear distinction on the negatives of bitcoin investing as well, just to level the playing field and ensure that everyone who would invest in this coin will have no regrets and be surprised per se.
For me the main reason why I choose btc investment over other investments is because I am interested in this volatile crypto market, and it will be profitable if I can store it well. Moreover it is true that we can have complete control over our assets. So the results that will be obtained depend on how we manage it. Btc is also currently recognized and accepted by many countries, so that's good, we can freely invest in it without fear of bans. Therefore, while btc is still acceptable and the prospects are still good, then we must also be able to use and manage it well so that we also get the desired results.
Volatility indeed works well both ways. Although of course this works best if you are shorting an asset. Bitcoin holders on the other hand aren't really a fan of the volatility that bitcoin has to offer since it makes investing really risky and sometimes dangerous especially if they are investing something they cannot afford to lose which they shouldn't anyway in the first place.
2145  Economy / Speculation / Re: Can I recommend a friend to buy Bitcoin now? on: July 31, 2021, 10:00:03 PM
There's no foolproof way for us investors to know when the market will rise and fall, best we could do is formulate speculations and predictions based on the movement of the market and nothing else. What I suggest you do is inform him/her instead of bitcoin and give him an expectation that bitcoin is not something that you could get a quick buck from whenever you so please. There's a huge margin of loss here that some people may not be able to afford, so only advise someone to invest if you are positive they can weather the losses they will potentially incur while on this run.
You can recommend it of course. Because the market is still rising. People can see it as a good opportunity to buy not to miss this new rally. But still, I think that it'd not be good to give some investment advices to anyone. People should decide by themselves about what to do.
Advices are one thing, I've been told about cryptocurrencies by a friend of mine too and I can never be less grateful that he did so because it certainly had become a life-changer for me. What is always important is setting an expectation that this is not always rainbows and unicorns, there is risk of loss that everyone from the smallest investors to the biggest bagholders are susceptible from.
2146  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Need beginner guide in gambling. on: July 31, 2021, 09:19:16 PM
No technique for gambling really that could help you land more wins, since most sites out there are trick-proof and would automatically ban you if found that you have used third-party services in order to win. However, I have a special tip for you that could help you secure the wins that you were able to land at the very least. Always play at least 3-4 games only if you play everyday. That way you can always stop losses before they pile up, and in turn you could almost make sure that your winnings aren't cut by the losses that you will incur later down the line. I've done this and so far not only does this help me secure my wins, it also ensured that I am not getting addicted to gambling.
I don’t think something like “gambling guide” is a real thing. Or even if there is one, it won’t be of much help. Gambling is best learned through practice and observation. E.g., in poker you develop your skills and sense of the game while participating, plus watching the famous gamblers playing in tournaments can be helpful, you can learn something from them.

You can use websites to familiarise yourself with the rules, basic terminology and popular strategies. I like this one: https://www.gamblingsites.org/
That only accounts however for games where the player's skill is a factor that could affect the results of the game. This doesn't happen for most luck-based games. I guess it's good that a guide like this exists since it pretty much gives the player or potential gambler a good head-start when playing the game.
2147  Economy / Economics / Re: If you can get paid through cryptocurrency, do you still choose fiat currency? on: July 30, 2021, 11:07:31 PM
Since the world economy is still run by fiat, later down the line I will be forced to cash out my cryptocurrencies in exchange for fiat in order to sustain my survival. If there's a way we can go through all forms of establishments and be presented with an option to pay using cryptocurrencies I don't see any reason as to why I should exchange my coins for fiat which is not only a much inferior form of money, but is quite unsanitary given the health risks that the COVID pandemic has presented us. So it's more like I have no choice really because if I do, I will always choose cryptocurrencies.
As cryptocurrencies are volatile, I would choose fiat currency, yeah. I would rather getting paid in fiat and then invest some amount into cryptocurrencies. Because I use cryptocurrencies for investment purposes mostly.
This too. I can't risk losing my already miniscule salary lol. For the moment cryptocurrencies aren't ready yet for what the world really needs. But sooner or later some genius will come up with a way to integrate the necessities of the public to cryptocurrencies, it's just a matter of when at this point.
2148  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Getting paid in Bitcoin vs getting paid in Fiat on: July 30, 2021, 10:41:25 PM
This is indeed a good step towards a world that is run by decentralized cryptocurrencies and not by oil executives-backed fiat currency. But as of the moment the leading cryptocurrency bitcoin is still on a long way to go I believe. Perhaps this is a good experiment to see how people being paid in bitcoin would behave and such but besides that fact, the volatility and the tremendous amounts of fees someone would need to pay in order to make use of those bitcoins is inconvenient for the people who are getting paid with it. I believe this will work best when we find a solution towards the slow and expensive transaction process of bitcoins and most coins in the market for that matter, along with their volatility.
Well, I can able to accept both of them and even bitcoin is allowed to use in my country. Perhaps the reason, not all countries using bitcoin as a salary is just because it is hard to obtained tax in bitcoin and it could be the company might in risk in the country regulators.
However, we still don't know about the bitcoin improvement and this will depend on the company if they will be able to pay bitcoin rather than cash without consequences to the government regulations and if this is not against to Department of Labor and Employment [DOLE] in every country.
This is also a good reason as to why bitcoin may not see large-scale usage at least within this decade. Governments are still yet to find a way for cryptocurrencies to be taxed which is not entirely a good thing for the users but is still a needed implementation in order to have bitcoin/other cryptocurrencies in the market be allowed to operate.
2149  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Greatest Gambling Losers on: July 30, 2021, 10:15:10 PM
Importance of always imposing control upon yourself before you gamble. Debts are just the tip of the problem iceberg when you invest too much on your gambling addiction and release any form of regard on your mental health or even your social life. Addiction is not something you could laugh about, especially gambling addiction because it is almost always a gateway to harder forms of addiction such as alcohol or drug addiction in some cases. So whenever you feel like you have been gambling too much or gambling too hard, take that important breather to relieve yourself of the mental stress and invest in something else that will help you release the stress. Winning isn't always the best thing in gambling anyway, but most of all it is the prevention of all forms of losses.
This loss are so degen that i cannot explain it. How do you bet this big. Gambling should be for fun especially in casinos. I still dont understand how people loss such a big amount. How do they even carry that amount of money with them or how the bank allows such transcations
Well some people see gambling as a get-rich-quick scheme which sometimes it is but almost always isn't. These types of people lose money on gambling, will probably ask for loans to a loan shark, and then incur more losses in the process, which will then cause them to be hunted for their lives because there's no way you can pay that much money when you're already stuck in the deep mire of gambling addiction.
2150  Economy / Economics / Re: Is it easier to HODL if you are already rich? on: July 29, 2021, 11:26:09 PM
It is much more bearable to hodl when you are affluent and can afford the temporary losses that you would incur with the cryptocurrency you bought. But I believe it is much easier to invest and hodl if you know the ins and outs of long-term investments really. Because if you would just pick a dime-a-dozen token out of the market and invest in it without further investigating, you would subject yourself to a possible loss. It's important that besides the funding needed to invest, you have the proper knowledge and guidance so you don't fall astray and break your pockets.
I think it's easier to hodl when you're rich, I mean you have enough money to not spend your portfolio or sell it prematurely. Plus you also can get more profit out of your holdings since you can put a lot of money in the first place and just wait for it to go up unless you FOMOed in a shitcoin.
Definitely easier when you are affluent, all for the reasons you mentioned earlier, but money without taking well care of it will just end up in the dumpster, so apart from being rich, I figured it is also important that you know your stuff when it comes to hodling. Otherwise you'd just FOMO and prematurely cash-out everytime you invest your money to a coin.
2151  Economy / Speculation / Re: Are you bullish or bearish this year? on: July 29, 2021, 10:45:23 PM
Huge potential in bitcoin going bullish this season especially with the current bounces that it has been receiving. The huge dump may have put a dent on bitcoin's value but it is literally impossible for bitcoin to not be able to recover. Just right now we are seeing the start of another possible bull run as bitcoin breaks out of the $30k barrier and is pushing for a $40k price recovery. We still have a few months left so there is a huge chance a bounce back or even better, another ATH may be achieved by the year end at December, or perhaps the early parts of 2022.
Still bullish, whether we see a huge drop from its ATH we don't have to think bearish as we've been far already within less than a year. The market have shown lately a bullish sign.

The end of the year is what we're waiting for and if most of the predictions that have been said that it shall have a good ending, it won't stop people to think about bitcoin being bullish.
The fact that this year's run is the most active bitcoin has ever been ever since its entire run should be enough proof that the game is still not over, and we may still see a possible comeback or price skyrocket. Still, it is always better to do your own research but speculations like these are indeed helpful in formulating an action plan that will help you rake in profits.
2152  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Will everyone still believe in Elon Musk? on: July 29, 2021, 10:13:52 PM
The guy's thoughts about the technology of bitcoin and how it can be applied to existing and possibly future pieces of tech is something that you shouldn't laugh about. The guy is of course lost a lot of the people's trust on him when he actively pulled all his existing statements about bitcoin and supposedly sold Tesla's bitcoin purchases but upon recent discovery it shows that he didn't really sold them anyway. Still though, whatever happens people shouldn't take all his word at face value and should do their own researches before jumping into another bitcoin hype, be it caused by Elon or someone else.
His rabid fans might still believe in him since he still has the following plus it's not like there's nothing wrong with believing in him, what people need to exercise is how to think for themselves and have some common sense. If you think about it, we might be able to apply Keynesian Beauty Contest with this Elon dilemma, he can create trends meaning that your opinion won't matter if it's overpowered by the public opinion meaning that you can make money if you follow the trend.
This is what has been missing from a lot of people nowadays. They all follow news and influential figures blindly and then blame them when they lose their profits. These people and personalities will all have ulterior motives that may or may not be in line with the public interest, so it's always better to think for yourselves and do research whenever necessary.
2153  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Gambling Exposed to children on: July 29, 2021, 09:13:05 PM
There shouldn't be any excuse as to why children are being exposed to gambling, however if we are to consider the facts at hand, most of these streamers at YouTube or twitch who showcase gambling sites as their sponsors are tagged for viewers over the age of 15. So the question has to be asked, why are minors that are below that age limit allowed to watch the streams and be exposed themselves to gambling, at least without adult supervision? I believe twitch and YouTube should impose stricter rules on their site, not their content creators because as long as they do not upload anything that is not safe for work, their content should be greenlit and should be allowed to be broadcast on their site with appropriate parameters to ensure that only people beyond that age limit can see it.
The thing is the platform of youtube is very vast and many in the younger age group can sure access it without parental consent, that is why there are youtube for kids so parents would know that their children are safe with things that are not really for the younger age, I really think that the parent provision is really needed so their child wouldn't be exposed to all sort of gambling paraphernalia,

But linking online gambling sites or Sportsbet is prohibited to be posted on youtube but what about people who are teaching tutorials on accessing these sites, but I guess youtube is already on the move in taking action with that said account, but I don't know about twitch, but for me, I think parents should always have a watchful eye in what their children are watching parental guidance is sure needed.
I would agree with you. The fact is the content will always be there for everyone potentially to see, but with enough supervision from the parents and a much more active approach from these platforms, there wouldn't be cases where children are exposed to videos or streams that weren't suitable for younger audiences.
2154  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If not invested then do it now... on: July 28, 2021, 11:30:30 PM
One quick distinction that I would like to add is the fact that bitcoin is not for the faint of heart. It is known by many that bitcoin isn't a get rich-quick scheme, evident by the fact that it takes a while before bitcoin can jump into a higher value and offer profits to those who held the coin. But what many may fail to recognize is that bitcoin also is very volatile, one day you are winning and the next day you find out you lost all your investments. If you are to invest in crypto, don't put all your eggs in one basket. But do allocate qn amount you will be comfortable of losing to bitcoin just in case.
There's nothing wrong with investing not just on bitcoin but on any other assets, but the problem is:

(1) they think that bitcoin is a get rich quick scheme
(2) bitcoin will go on parabolic rise
(3) they don't invest what they can afford to lose

Obviously, it's not late to invest as long as you can manage your financial in the right way and just invest the extra money into bitcoin and look for it in the long term, at least a year or two to see the potential profit that you are going to make.
Important pointers right there. Also helpful to keep in mind that the best time to invest in an asset like bitcoin is as soon as possible. The market is tumultous at the moment and it could be anybody's game. So it's best to place bets on either side in order to secure a hefty win.
2155  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Ethics of boxing and gambling on: July 28, 2021, 10:28:08 PM
The bottomline of all this somewhat ethical breach in sports like MMA, Boxing, or even slapping tournaments is the fact that this is all done for money. Pretty sure they get paid alright and are given enough care while in the ring, except of course for a notable few cases where neglect and misconduct costed a fighter their career or worse, their life. The betting I think is justified especially if it is precedented by the organizers themselves because the fighters will have a cut in the win. So it's all really at least fairly ethical and alright for me.
There is no one forcing anyone to box. It is completely up to the boxers themselves whether or not they want to take on the risks that come with boxing. Back in the day we didn’t know exactly all of the health issues that were involved but today with modern medicine we do, so again, the boxers have full knowledge of the risks being taken. Same goes for sports like NFL football.
Of course there is also the option of not partaking in extreme sports, but then again the temptation of a better life that you could provide your family oftentimes outweigh the care and regard for your well-being that you'd be willing to put your life in the line for that chance.
2156  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: How to avoid gambling addictions on: July 28, 2021, 09:34:07 PM
I've been there and honestly felt like I wouldn't be able to come out of the mire that is gambling addiction because the relapses hit very hard. But what kept me going is basically self-control and incentives. You could set a weekly plan on how much you are only allowed to play or gamble, and when you achieve such goal treat yourself to something that isn't related to gambling at all. Like buying a much needed appliance or going out with a friend to reconnect, you need distraction and a goal.
Avoid? Don't play gambling as simple as that but the question is, on how you would able to resist temptation or urge for you to play? This is something depending on someones control.

If you do find yourself to be that impulsive then better quit gambling for good and don't make things even more worst because if you do let things to go further then you would

already have the idea on where you would be ending up which is simply to mess up yourself in terms of finances or even your relation into your loved ones.
Avoiding something that had become your lifestyle even if only for a short amount of time is easier said than done. You'd come to find out that some addicts without proper control and supervision come back from their ways not long after, and that is because there is a lack of inner and outside support, which could also be applied to gambling addiction.
2157  Economy / Economics / Re: Higher Inflation Is Here to Stay for Years on: July 25, 2021, 11:30:10 PM
Inflation happens because money is hard to trace, so instead of reinstating old banknotes that are still in the system but is left out of the circulation, they will print more banknotes to accommodate the supply needed by the public. Not to mention excessive printing of cash during this pandemic. Until we find a way to make money traceable, or at least irreplaceable, Inflation will always be here to stay. Now in the case of bitcoin, this is where it shines the best because even though there are unused coins that are left in circulation, there is little worry about inflation because no more bitcoins will be created besides the 21 million that are there from the start.
The pandemic has caused so many challenges that almost every country in the world faced unprepared. Almost everyone has not anticipated the huge effect a pandemic may bring. Hence, it was such a difficult struggle for the majority, particularly to the developing and third world countries to cope up with the negative impact of the virus on the country's state and to its economy. Inflation is really expected to happen because the safety protocols and measures imposed were a disadvantage to the economic aspect of the country. The lockdowns, social distancing protocols in every place, travel restrictions, the closing of businesses, and job losses contributed a large percentage to the inflation rise after several years. The debt of the country made it even worse because they can hardly pay on time resulting in higher interest rates.

However, despite the negative effects of the pandemic crisis such as higher inflation, it won't last permanently. The higher inflation rate is just temporary - a repercussion of the actions done in response to the pandemic which can later be lowered the moment the economy will bounce back once again. It's just that the burden to the less fortunate ones will be a little heavier compared to those who belong to the upper bracket of the society given that the former barely have the means to survive and the latter are privileged enough to buy all the things they need without breaking their pockets.
I agree, but then again we have to consider the fact that with all the banknotes and currencies that are released in circulation, a huge number of them won't be reinstated into the system, hence prompting the central bank/federal bank to create more banknotes to make up for the lack of supply. This will keep on going.
2158  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Elon Musk and Jack Dorsey agree to talk about bitcoin at an event in July on: July 25, 2021, 10:46:12 PM
After what happened last March, people are quick to realize that Elon is not really a visionary and a supporter of bitcoin but another dime-a-dozen manipulator of the market. His pumping of last year, followed by the retraction of all bitcoin payments on Tesla Supercars plus the fact that they apparently sold bitcoins as well is enough of a proof for people to stop idolizing him. His talk with Jack Dorsey this month, if any, will have little impact with the current price of bitcoin and most of all the amount of people who support them. Hopefully however they come up to something good here that will at least be beneficial to the cryptocurrency community in the future.
this two are just business men trying to make more profits from bitcoin and other alt coins, i dont really take Elon Musk too serious when it comes to cryptocurrency analysis and he does is to make tweets with the intent of manipulating market price.
so they meeting make no sense to me as it will not help the improvement of the bitcoin network
We can pretty much label them as another whale manipulator, but I am for the lack of a better word, concerned about how this talk will go, Elon and Jack still have some following within this community and depending on how this discussion will go, we may see another change in the market price, then again something that I really look forward to is if they have plans in the future that will concern us bitcoin investors and enthusiasts.
2159  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Anything like excess gambling on: July 25, 2021, 10:07:53 PM
In gambling, it's not about how much you win or lose at all. It is more on how are you controlling yourself to prevent more losses and secure more wins. There are people who are lucky enough to win huge prize pots in lottery and gambling but will literally blow all their money off in less than a decade because not only do they not know how to control themselves when gambling, they do not know how to take good care of their winnings as well and will literally spend it on everything that they can afford. When you gamble, self-control is the most essential thing that you can learn, without this, you'd be wasting all your winnings and will accumulate more losses. Plus it will literally send you to a spiral of addiction.
Compulsive gambling is a sign of gambling addiction and the gambler needs help to stop donating to the casinos. In the long term, the house always wins and the casino management has specific promotions to keep gamblers inside the platform. I don't think keeping yourself busy with something else will replace the entertainment in gambling, better to meet with someone from begambleaware team, IMHO.
Sound advice, you may also want to redirect the money you spend gambling to something that will help you better yourself, like therapy. People downplay the importance of mental health when it comes to anything when most of the times a poor mental health is what will cause you trouble. Keep yourself sane and safe. Not only for you, but for your family and friends too.
2160  Economy / Economics / Re: What kind type of market player you are? on: July 24, 2021, 11:55:04 PM
Not being big on the technicalities that you will require in order to become an effective trader, I mostly dabble on investments and put my money on the ones that I saw are able to weather whatever crisis is put through them like bitcoin and ethereum. Speculations I do sometimes but only on coins I believe will give me profit in the long run once again. This has been very effective for me despite the fact that as a speculator I basically just eye out a coin and whether I invest or not is based on if I like the coin's model or not.
Isn't it when we don't really know what will happen in the future including speculators? In any case?
Just as most people have predicted that Bitcoin prices will continue to soar a few months ago. The analysis was very done carefully and thoroughly and filled with calculations.
But suddenly the market dropped even more than -40% at that time because of some FUDs.
Then, don't both investors and traders also mean speculators?
However, in this case, a speculator is like what he is, the speculator is only speculating without analysis and analysis. If without more analysis to the origin of guess and luck.
You know what this makes sense, at least putting the so-called speculators in a much more desirable spectrum rather than be labeled as blindly following a coin they like. Sometimes we don't really know if a coin is gonna pump or dump in the future but we do have graphs and sources of info that could help us predict the price and make an educated guess.
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