You must be some kind of new idiot. I am the one that posted just above that these rebounds will be "naturally sold off"...

Well, no so new, actually. Wow.

Bittrex now requires either a Linked in bio or a senior BCT account for ICOs. Not nearly enough as requirements go, but a step in the right direction.

A tiny one.

Lets eliminate the bad players, for real Bittrex.

Sorry for the off topic, but I thought many would be interested.

Already a more than 50% rebound
 And going

Perhaps we all have gotten a bit of perspective, much needed perspective, now.

No it is not me. I already traded out a couple of times. But my volume is extremely modest, less than 1 million, so...

Precisely. Early stages. Forward looking is imperative. Rushing features just because the current market supports those features is meaningless in the long term. VISION, long term forward vision, is what VRC needs. And stick to it regardless of the market and the prices. That is NOT, not caring about the investors, or the price, that would be not letting the markets and the prices interfere in the progress of the coin towards its ultimate objectives, those that the stakeholders support, not what a few cry about now because they want a 200% increase in price to dump their coins. We already were at more than 200% above current price. And meant nothing. The clear path is toward the mass adoption through the standard already established: Honesty, transparency, integrity. In the dev team and in the coin. And not so-called "integrity of the blockchain" but integrity of the coin towards the VISION of the devs supported by the stakeholders and towards guaranteeing, at whatever measures may be required, that both vendors and investors are protected. Every coin WILL be forced, by law, to guarantee that. VRC is and should remain then pioneer in implementing it by will, not forced by law.

Remember: The people that temporarily own 10 million coins don't care about where VRC is going, they only care about selling those for a profit as quickly as possible. That is not only not bad, it is actually very good, because they create liquidity, interest = MARKET. But the ones that will remain, regardless of what the market does, are the 10 million that are staking and the other 6 million that remain in exchanges hoping/expecting for longer term profits. Those are your SUPPORT and your STRENGTH. You must stay the course that they support and no other.

These bounces will, logically, be sold off. Be aware and be ready or, better yet, don't pay any attention to them. Just daytrading going on.

Please no more "At the end of the day"?

And, whoever is "moderating", can we make the whole thing a bit more dynamic, like it's ok to interrupt answer that go waaaay too long. Collect your thoughts BEFORE answering and do not LINGER. If you left something out, come back to it, briefly, specifically, later on your next turn but don't linger on.

Oh and William has "taken over" radio? Really?

Wow.

Putting things in perspective, I am going to disagree with Douglas: This kind of panic selling has NEVER happened before in VRC. Sorry but I have been here since the get go and no, not of these dimensions. This is A TOTAL PANIC SELLING DUMP. I'd say ALL traders (by ALL I mean the hugely vast majority) are or have already dumped VRC. Not only them, all the small investors and, of course, all nthe weak hands. It is, in fact, safe to say that most if not ALL of the VRC outside of the 10 million that are staking -as per your count, Douglas-, have been not just sold but probably sold, in panic, a few times in many cases. The proportions of the dump are epic.

That said, we must have reaching the bottom because there should be no more people willing to sell at any moment. This is the community that support VRC, on their own. No outside traders, no outside investors, no groups, no whales. Just like at the beginning or VRC, only enormously more solid. Bottom price will be what will be, but that will be the REAL value of VRC as supported by it's stakeholders.

This gives -should give- the dev a premium opportunity to really stop the presses and evaluate. With perspective. And stop listening to the single requests that have poured here through the panic dump. There's no "saving the coin". The coin is saved. By those 10 million VRC staking and the community that owns them (plus the few million more still on the exchanges but that will not be sold at these prices or below no matter what). That community has given your their full support, especially bin the rollback decision. That community wants you to keep setting higher standards. That community supports regulation -which is coming and is inevitable-. That community doesn't support, regardless of the petitions, a shadow market (decentralized) that serves only interests outside the law. And that community supports every and all efforts to make sure that thieves will not benefit from attacking VRC no matter what, no mattter in one or 100 rollbacks are necessary. The so-called integrity of the block chain is Bullshit. The integrity that you have to defend, because your stake holders demand so, is the integrity of the coin: That the investors are protected and that the vendors are protected. That's the only integrity that counts to the stakeholders and to the future vendors and customers that will adopt Vericoin.

So I invite you to pause, evaluate and take advantage -and a strong forward, proactive position- of the new circumstances and SET THE PATH to follow, whether the other people in crypto like it or not. Your obligation is not to Lee, not to anyone in particular. Your obligation is to those stakeholders thata keep 10 million VRC staking. They have spoken loud and clear to you. You need ton listen to them and act in consequence.

He is not interested in the truth. It doesn't serve his agenda at all.

That is a terrible mistake for nothing can lose more than 100%. That's tops.

You would understand that reading your post after that would be a waste of time, wouldn't you?

You are so full of shit that the only explanation for the amount of raw, smoking turdish crap you disseminate is that you are somewhat connected to -or simple are- the thief himself.

But merchants, if told about the rollback, would definite applaud since they are GUARANTEED -as the ones affected were- to get their money back. No such guarantee exists in crypto -and, mind you, merchants wants REPEATED and SATISFIED customers, not customer demonstrating at their doors because they got shafted... but what the fuck do you know about vendors or customer, you are just a tool and quite probably a thief-. Vericoin, rolling back to avoid a theft AND protecting both investors and merchants, has set itself apart from the pack of theft and fraud supporting coins  which, by such support, have alienated the crypto world from making inroads into the mass market.

One again setting standards MUCH higher.

Oh and pretending this debacle in price is caused by the rollback is just idiocy, plain and simple. Of which you are a pathetic exponent.

And that reference is absurd Patrick for EVEN if the community were willing to pony up $32,000, YOU should not allow the hiring of a PR Agency because, precisely, you have witnessed the idiocy -among other things- that hiring one was for BC. YOU, the leader of VRC, should say precisely that VRC will NOT hire a PR company because you have the example by which it does not work and it is a waste of money. And you should defend your (roll back) decision, not defend those who very harshly criticized it stating the "they have a reason to be critical". If they do, you should have not made the decision to roll back. You can please some of the people all the time but you cannot please all the people all the time.

And focusing your comments on what cannot be done -let alone shouldn't be done- is not proactive nor serves any practical purpose. Marching forward, proactively, does. And by that I mean doing what can be done. You are bright enough to see that, you just don't want to face the music that goes with it and arrogantly defend positions that perhaps are just irrelevant now. That will not be marching forward. Ever.

Again the mention of BC, a dying coin with a history of fraud and corrupt to the core. Why Patrick?

The hiring of the Borgess Agency is one of the most laughed off decisions ever happening in crypto. Everyone knows by now that moriture13/doghnip, an employee of the Borgess Agency and visible lead of The Black Hand, was behind and subsidizing it in part. Why even mention that here?

The need, even though you probably won't recognize it, is there as I have stated before. But hiring a PR agency is NOT the answer. Associating with Joel Bosch, a tainted individual, also Black Hand, was not wise even if it was somehow inevitable. Distancing from him IS indeed wise. as is distancing from Will, no matter how much of a good friend he might be. And finding someone who, first, cares for the image of VRC and, more importantly, KNOWS how to preserve that image. It may cost. Or he may be freely available. Have you tried to find him? Or you just believe you are perfectly capable of doing it? Because you aren't, sorry.

And you hit several nails straight on the head. What did you expect though? these are two full time students (of totally unrelated to business and marketing matters, mind you) and a young programmer working for Microsoft full time. You expected them to be marketing geniuses? Professional business men?

You are right regarding Socal and Wiz/ Joel Bosch. The former, handsome as he is, is probably the less suitable individual on planet Earth to be doing anything publicly for VRC... no matter how restrained he must have become of late. We all know what's underneath. And it is not good for VRC. As for Bosch, he's tainted by his crypto history and his affiliation with The Black Hand. And, generally, with bullshit. Not a good association at all. But, in truth, nothing that the devs could do anything about.

As for Patrick Nokster, he is not suitable for PR either. Not at all. He has the logical arrogance of youth and his inexperience and will to be nice to everyone but their own, everyone that he considers of importance for him, is simply impossible to balance with running, de facto, a $6 million enterprise. He says many inappropriate things. Many. But, like I said, it is understandable given the circumstances (him being the frontman and having to do interviews for which he has not been adequately prepared previously).

So those holes I mentioned above, are, among other things, a press/pr liason and general social media coordinator who would be the one making official statements on behalf of VRC. A financial advisor who would set the route, financially, that VRC must follow, along with the technical roadmap. And projects with project leaders (maybe the Regional leaders initiative?) that the community will finance and support. You expect all of that, in 2 months, from two full time students full of youth and arrogance and a Microsoft full-time employee? Well, then you are going to be disappointed, sorry.

But, first things first: VRC is pretending, so far, to be all solutions to all things. Which cannot be. It has to DEFINITE what it is, first and, way more importantly, set the CLEAR path to follow. We cannot pretend the rollback did not happen. If we pretend to remain a purist crypto coin that will allow thieves to get away with robbery and fraud, like every other crypto seems to be, it will be not credible and confusing; if we, on the other hand, state, clearly that yes, we welcome regulation, yes we will do anything possible when circumstances warrant to avoid the investors getting hurt and the thieves left to dry, then we are talking to an audience. And gaining their trust and support. Maybe it isn't the core crypto purists, but it will be, I bet, a much bigger one, much closer to the mainstream. What we cannot pretend is to play in the two teams at once. It doesn't work that way. And that's the game Patrick Nokster has been playing since the rollback happened. Is that one of the reasons for this price debacle? No one knows. What everyone DOES know though is that you are either in one team or the other and, for now at least, VRC is in some unsustainable zone right in the middle not knowing what way to go and, actually, not wanting to go either but longing to go back, rather that MARCHING forward.

I understand your frustration. But the fact you are frustrated, sometimes, makes you perceive things that are not necessarily true. Including attitudes here which, by now, you should be used to and should not be constructed by you as being the general sentiment of the community -or even the forum- or, as in the case of Lackey, true. Simply.

In my opinion, you bring great energy and some ideas to the forum, so I encourage you to keep at it. And yes, it is frustrating but you have to understand that it isn't so simple to "be around New York, create a few paper wallets and distribute them around the party..." It is not overly complicated, either. But it isn't so simple. Besides, I am not quite sure how efficient such a non-coordinated thing will be.

You have interest and interesting marketing general ideas, the specifics are a bit more complicated... and costly. And a coordinated effort, of much bigger proportions, adequately planned and funded, would indeed be a great step forward, along with a blast on social media and news media to go with it. That though cost money, quite a bit. And mobilization of community resources that VRC may or may not have.

Which brings me to the core of the matter: The 2 devs are doing a great job. The peripheral aid? not so good. There has been a lot more complacency, raw arrogance and downright stupidity exhibited that it would have been advisable already. Along with a total lack of professionalism. The Google hangouts are, after 2 editions, amateurish, unprepared  and quite boring. There's no media liason on VRC. Nokster does his best which is not very good in that regard. So yes, there are significant holes that need to be covered, but this is a 2 months old enterprise and those matters should be taken care of as we go along.

Now this slump, significant as it is, is not a VRC isolated slump. It generally has affected most if not all similarly positioned coins in alt. Is it worrysome? of course it is. But it should be examined and valuated in context and, precisely as an alarm to cure us all of complacency, arrogance and general stupidity in the all-too-violent emotional posting we do the moment the price goes down. This is a serious and rather big enterprise experiencing growing pains. It isn't a religion. It isn't a cult. It is a commercial enterprise motivated by profit mainly. Approach it as what it is and be as positive as you want to be, as proactive as you can be, as critic as you choose to be. But act professional. show yourself as you would if the person you are answering a post to would be in front of you and would be 6 fee 2 and muscular. Or like you would in front of real people whose regard of yourself is of importance. Or, if you are incapable of it, just shut up, think about your emotions for a while and then try to come up with something at the very least civil.

All that said, it is quite worrysome the slump. General and VRC's. Can it go back to mid teens? Of course it can. Will it rebound to 30s and higher, I believe it will. But it pretty much depends on THIS community, nothing else, for the time being. Should we DO something? Absolutely. What? Keep pouring out ideas and, by all means, those who like them and support them, show that support decisively -offering donations for that purpose would be as decisively as you can be-.

Be calm. Be civil. Be nice.

Funny people here.

That Niccolo guy? Hysterical.

Ok, let's clarify first that I have been stating my opinion and that is utterly and completely opposed to yours on every aspect of the PwP. So, as I have stated several times already, your kid will sing the solo tenor and my opinion will just remain here. End of that part of the conversation.

Now, the "averaging down" by a "system" has to be programmed. Perhaps when you have spent in the financial world the amount of years I have, you will understand what is normally called "throwing money after bad money" which is applied to what many people perceive as "averaging down". First of all, money is not an infinite supply, otherwise it would be quite easy by simply doubling down. Second, you have to program a "system" to "average down", every 5 points? 10 points? 25 points? doubling down? tripling? See? those things can be done by an individual, on gut feeling or resources or both. When it is an algo, you will find that after a dump like the one PC has just experienced, you run out of money when it went from 105 to 80. What then? I'm sure you get my point clearly. What will support the PwP when there are no resources in the bank? another petition  to the community, rather urgent? what if the community doesn't respond? what would that do to the image of PC?

And I am as confident as you are... on the opposite direction -experience is called that figure- that not only scenarios in which the price will be halved will present themselves again in the future but that they could potentially be much worse than just halving. Not a single coin in crypto has not experienced such volatility... including BTC which, as you surely know, remains at barely above half what it once was.

So your "pink" thinking is duly noted and appreciated, but at the expense of reality and reiterated facts of crypto, we will not progress but maintain pipe dreams destined to fail instead.

In short: "Averaging down", does not work always -as a matter of fact it rarely does. Regardless of your level of faith or "pinkness", PC WILL indeed go up and down with as much volatility -and sometimes more- than any other GOOD digital currency.

Perhaps you should take those circumstances into consideration before sending your kid to do the solo tenor.

I hope you are not missing me anymore because, as long as I am invested in  PC -and I am more than I ever wanted to be-, you will have me here calling a spade a spade.

Oh and let me add also that, likewise, I don't see any validation whatsoever in your argument. Hence why we are in completely opposite sides on the issue.

I must have entered the twilight zone...

You sure must be elated at this point...

First off, the term "doubtful" is not necessarily a negative. Much less when plans are at the "conversation stage". But this is like trying to talk objectively about their kid's deeds with their parents, an exercise in waste of time. It's your kid (bomb), I get it. It not only won't do anything good for pinkcoin, it will be, as stated, highly counterproductive. Irreconcilable opinions. End of story.

As for the algo, how can it take it into consideration a volume that doesn't exist, since the only volume would be the one it creates? THAT's how low the volume of trading in PC is. So any trading performed by the "system" would necessarily be dumping on the bots and the minimal bids available. And it could be a big dumping, depending of the amounts purchased, so the effects for the price would be absolutely devastating. The individual, on the other hand, can choose to hold until there's a burst of bids or, with patience, unload little by little, thus achieving better price and not creating a big dump on the market.
I know you would defend your algo and your "system", of course. You cannot even conceive the possibility of a better alternative and that, no matter how you choose to dress it, is VERY NEGATIVE, my friend. Just like negating the reality is.

But, like I said, in the end it is your child and he will perform at the party the solo tenor. Good luck with that.

Edit to add: And, by the way, you still have not responded to how the algo would have traded the PC during the instance of the past 2 weeks, when price has halved, and instance that obviously, in your always positive thinking will never happen but it not only has but it is guaranteed to happen, in more or less measure, many times in the future.  I guess it is somewhat difficult to explain and we will have to take it as "the algo would do the best that can be done", whatever that could mean in practical terms and real life example, right?