... or simply for those who cannot get a credit card or PayPal account because of a poor credit rating. Seriously there are close to 30% of adults in the United States who do not have a credit card. Ever wonder what happens to your plastic when your home is lost to foreclosure?
By the way one can receive income from AdSense and not have a credit card because of poor credit.
I don't have a credit card. I do however have a debit card through my bank that works just as well. Need to setup a credit card though just for the credit rating benefits. Just never needed one  Agreed on the adsense bit. I used to have Google mail me checks when I ran an adsense generating site. Debit cards that work as credit cards work in the United States for those who have a bank account; however there are close to 10% of adults in the United States that do not have bank accounts; furthermore bad credit can prevent one from getting a bank account. In many countries debit cards that work as credit cards do not exist or are very hard to get, and pre-paid cards are very expensive with many fees and also hard to get. Also people with bad credit tend to avoid bank accounts for fear of creditor seizures. Ever wonder why the cheque cashing stores do so much business? The bottom line here is that those with a FICO score of 350 or so are the low lying fruit ready to be picked by Bitcoin merchants that sell services online. |
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... or simply for those who cannot get a credit card or PayPal account because of a poor credit rating. Seriously there are close to 30% of adults in the United States who do not have a credit card. Ever wonder what happens to your plastic when your home is lost to foreclosure?
By the way one can receive income from AdSense and not have a credit card because of poor credit.
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When it comes to Bitcoin online retail there is a new player in town. http://www.bitcoinstore.com/ which can have a greater market impact on the BTC / USD rate than SilkRoad, and without the "legal" issues. I only wish their was a Canadian version of this kind of site.... shipping is just to damn high for International shipping They have added USPS as an option and now shipping rates a very reasonable and competitive. |
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When it comes to Bitcoin online retail there is a new player in town. http://www.bitcoinstore.com/ which can have a greater market impact on the BTC / USD rate than SilkRoad, and without the "legal" issues. |
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The trouble with this analogy is that the ordinance in question covers all sorts of pets from fish to snakes to elephants. So arguing if the dog is a dog or a prairie dog becomes moot. Arguing whether Bitcoin is a "commodity" or a "currency" or a "foreign virtual currency" or "money" or even a "security" does not change the fact that income earned in Bitcoin is taxable.
I think you missed the point the court made which is the difference between a question of fact and a question of law. And those issues of fact and law as applied to Bitcoin, which are extremely thorny legal issues due to the underlying novel and nascent technology involved, are precisely what the other legal conclusions turn on. For example, do US persons have to report on the FBAR: (1) a World of Warcraft Ultimate Sword of Doom, (2) a London Tube card or (3) a Zara gift card? Not likely, Maybe, Probably. Here are a few large issues when it comes to Bitcoin; MIT license, plausible deniability which raises huge issues of fact, air guitarability which raises huge issues of law and the decentralized nature. All of these provide extremely fruitful ground for tax efficiency and potential precedent setting litigation. In some cases such as FBAR in the US, GST (Canada) or VAT (EU) I do agree that the actual legal status of Bitcoin can be very tricky; however with income taxes the legal status may turn out to be moot because the tax treatment is that same regardless of the legal status. To quote your example: If one received income in the form of (1) a World of Warcraft Ultimate Sword of Doom, (2) a London Tube card or (3) a Zara gift card, the treatment for income tax purposes would be the same; however for the purposes of FBAR (US), GST (Canada) or VAT (EU) the treatment would be different. |
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Does anyone else find it ironic that this thread has "not that complicated" in its title?
Irony aside, any sober and mature discussion of this important topic is welcome. My unqualified opinion is that in most jurisdictions barter exchange is regulated and taxed; the important distinction here is that bitcoins are virtual currency,commodity, or whatever else you decide the call them. Hence, applying regulations is not straigh forward. If it were simple, most of us would have been paying sales tax whenever we traded them for fiat.
When it comes to a GST or a VAT the distinction between a "virtual currency", "money" or a "commodity" is crucial; however this is not the case at all for income taxes. I have argued that if a tax authority attempted to levy a GST, VAT or similar type of tax on Bitcoin, it would actually turn Bitcoin into a legal way of avoiding the GST or VAT, since in order for a GST or a VAT work it cannot apply to money. |
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Keep a second set of books (addresses, etc, one per customer), and use them to evade taxes --
I suggest that advocating illegal activity has no place in this thread, nor on this forum. +1 |
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OP must be new to online shopping. Every Canadian makes the UPS mistake once, then they stick to USPS.
Actually I did not make the UPS mistake. I saw somebody else get nailed by UPS. I will do my best to spread the word on this scam. |
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So, If I've mined some coins in the past years, I should declare a value gain euqals to the value in $ when coins have been mined, and pay taxes on it, sold or not ?
That is what I am doing. Someone posted something here, that bring me a question : As the bitcoin block chain includes all transactions, can any of those transactions be linked to me ? Is there any IP adresses in the blockchain that could lead to someone ?
If someone mine on TOR, and mined coins are stored on a wallet that does'nt exist as a file, this someone can earn bitcoin and not have to fear to pay taxes on it ! is it true ?
I can't imagine the Canadian taxman comming to me, ordering to pay X$ for BTC I've mined in the past years ! This sounds really bad to me..
My understanding is that the most common source of tips to the CRA or the IRS etc. to catch tax evaders is former business partners, business associates, employees, customers, spouses, significant others etc. So TOR may have little practical benefit in this case. |
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USPS International shipping options are now available. For smaller shipments the rates appear to be about half that of FedEx.  It depends on the item. For example for a motherboard to Canada International Economy $44.88 (FedEx) Priority Mail International Small Flat Rate Box $12.95 (USPS) The main point is that the customer can now choose which makes the BitcoinStore very attractive to customers in Canada and many other international destinations. I will go as far as to say that this can impact the overall BTC / USD exchange rate. |
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Found a fun court's quote that is quite applicable to Bitcoin and bitcoins: For instance, assume an ordinance taxes the keeping of pet dogs. Jo is assessed a tax for keeping Fido, and Jo appeals. The question “Is Fido a dog?” may be factual or it may be legal. If Jo claims only that Fido is a really a cat, then the issue is factual. No one argues that the legal definition of dog includes cats; the only dispute is regarding the actual nature of Fido. On the other hand, if both parties agree that Fido is a prairie dog, the question “Is Fido a dog?” is a purely legal one. There is no dispute about the nature of Fido; the only dispute involves what the legal meaning of “dog” is. Of course if the city says Fido is a schnauzer while Jo says that Fido is actually a prairie dog, the question “Is Fido a dog” is mixed if both legal and factual aspects of the seemingly single question are in dispute.
Indmar Products Co v Commissioner, 444 F.3d 771 (6th Cir. 2006). The trouble with this analogy is that the ordinance in question covers all sorts of pets from fish to snakes to elephants. So arguing if the dog is a dog or a prairie dog becomes moot. Arguing whether Bitcoin is a "commodity" or a "currency" or a "foreign virtual currency" or "money" or even a "security" does not change the fact that income earned in Bitcoin is taxable. |
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no i'm not selling. it will continue to rise throughout the week.
I thought it was going to be panic rise Monday? Monday has now become throughout the week and if it declines throughout the week becomes throughout the month, which yields to Bitcoins will eventually go up? it did panic rise today. It will continue to rise throughout the week. I wonder if the bank holiday for Veterans Day (US) / Remembrance Day (Canada) was taken into consideration when this prediction was made? |
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BitcoinStore is now shipping via USPS which avoids the issue of the courier companies and their outrageous brokerage fees. By the way this will make BitcoinStore a fierce competitor in the international market with potential ramifications on the BTC / USD exchange rate.
The rule of thumb for a Canadian customer purchasing from the US of course is: Shipping via courier company = no sale.
By the way I have on more than one occasion purchased from an Ebay seller in China over an Ebay seller in the United States even though the Chinese seller had a slightly higher price because the Chinese seller ships via China Post / Canada Post while the US seller used UPS. Basically one pays say $2 more on the item to avoid say $50 of UPS brokerage and other fees to "broker" say $5 worth of GST/HST.
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What about someone who generated 10,000 btc a few years ago and paid tax on the $600 he made. Can he spend the 10,000 btc as if it is tax free? (Of course not, but what is the answer?) What if coins go to $0.00. Can he get back the tax he paid on the $600?
The difference is taxable, very likely as a capital gain or loss. It is basically the same as if one obtained the fair market value of the coins in the national currency and then immediately purchased the coins. |
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One thing is wrong with your analogy, your keep comparing the income in the amount of other "Currencies". Bitcoins has yet to be recognized as a currency by the government, so it is a commodity, not legal tender. So it would be more correct and better to compare it to lets say casino tokens. If you have $10,000 in casino tokens do you report that winnings to IRS, of course not, but as soon as that is converted to a recognized currency, then you report the winnings. That is how Bitcoins is treated and the only way it can be treated. Lets say I have BTC1000 obviously you can report bitcoins as bitcoins, so another area is the value is always changing so lets say one year I file on those BTC1000 and the mt gox price is $10 so I keep the bitcoins as bitcoins and pay taxes on $10,000. But next year those same coins are only worth $5, can i report I took a lost $5,000. Obvious answer is no but it should be yes cause it is commodity and having it's value determined by outside forces, of the market.
That isn't even close to true in the US. If you earn income in ANYTHING it is taxable when the income is earned.For example you make a website for me and I pay you in 1 oz gold coin? What is your tax liability? By your logic nothing until you sell the coins. Try doing that and watch the IRS seize everything you own. You incur a tax liability of income = USD value of 1 oz gold at the time I paid for the site. You build a luxury house for me and I pay you with a Rembrandt original valued at $2.8 million. Your tax liability? $2.8 million in income. It doesn't matter how you get paid, it is income, and it is taxable. How about pure barter of services? Your make a website for your dentist and he fills in your cavity. Once gain income. The amount taxed is the value of the services. Income is always taxed at the point it is paid. It doesn't need to be paid in dollars. If you receive anything of value for just about any reason it is taxable. For example say you win a car in a sweepstakes. Yup you owe taxes on the income value of the car. $50K = $50K in income seen by the IRS have your checkbook ready. Obviously your casino chip claim is false. One could simply use casino chips as a proxy (i.e. live in Vegas and pay all your bills by casino chips and thus never incur any taxes on casino winnings. More on IRS & Barter: http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/11/irs-tax-barter-exchange-income-personal-finance-wood.htmlThe IRS starts with a down-home definition. Bartering is trading one product or service for another, whether informally and one-on-one or with multiple parties in a commercial setting. It has a storied, even ancient tradition. "Our ancestors may have exchanged eggs for corn," explains the IRS, but "today you can barter computer services for auto repair." The IRS also lists plumbing services for dental work. You name the swap, the IRS wants to tax it.
Wherever it arises, it is income to both sides, just like cash, according to the IRS. That means each side must report the fair market value of the item or services received on their tax returns.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Bartering-Tax-CenterFor a second think about it this way. If income wasn't taxed until converted to dollars it would be trivially easy to never pay any taxes ever for your entire life by never converting to USD. i.e. I trade you 1000 shares of xyz inc for 20 oz of gold. I then take the 20 oz of gold and trade them for a years worth of dedicated server hosting. The webhosting company trades the 20oz of gold for food at the local grocer to feed his family for the next two years. Nobody has any income? Nobody has any taxes? Really does it even seem plausible the IRS didn't notice this massive loophole. The only time that taxable events are limited to the time of sale is on capital gains. i.e. you BUY (using USD or other income which has already been taxed) 1 gold coin (1oz) for $1,700 the price of gold goes up to $1,800 how much taxes are due? None. The event is a capital gain and only occurs when the asset is sold. 5 years later you sell the gold coin for $2,000 and incur a $300 capital gain which is taxed based on the year you sold the coin. Note the two can be combined. Going back to the website. Say gold was worth $1,700 at the time the site was made. You incur $1,700 taxable income. You pay your taxes, and decide not to sell the coin. You keep it for a couple years and sell it for $2,000. You incur a $300 capital gain. Why $300 and not $2,000. The $1,700 becomes your basis because it was treated at income at the time you acquired the coin. Any accountants here? If I'm given $100,000 worth of gold or oil or rice, do I report that or wait until it's been sold for a currency? Income is always taxed when it is earned. If someone paid you: $100,000 in dollars, $100,000 in Euros, $100,000 in gold, $100,000 in oil, $100,000 in BTC it doesn't matter in all four events you incurred an income of $100,000 (or equivalent) and owe taxes on the income. Failure to include that income on current year's income tax return would be considered tax evasion. Now if someone gifts it to you (or it is an inheritance) there will be no taxes due (w/ certain limitations) but once again the IRS would see that as a gift of $100K regardless of the form the gift occurred in. This is actually the same in Canada. in fact I would be interested to see if there is a jurisdiction where this is not the case. |
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What I find interesting about this case is that the search warrant specifically identified Bitcoin and two specific Bitcoin addresses among the items to be seized. Is this a first?
If this guy has over 370,000 BTC why on earth is he asking for financial donations?
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With respect to the licensing it appears to me that if one wants to use the GPL v3 but with additional permissions then under section 7 of GPLv3 one can add additional permissions for a work. For legal advice, for a FLOSS project, the place I would suggest is the Software Freedom Law Center. http://www.softwarefreedom.org They have years of expertise on FLOSS licensing. |
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Where do you live and who is your ISP?
I live in Ontario, Canada. My ISP is Rogers. ... That explains it. Rogers has to be one of the worst ISP's around, and the situation has not changed for a long time. My experience with them was in Vancouver in the 1990's and their so called high speed Internet was easily 10x-20x slower than a dial up modem at 14.4 kbps. I actually tested this. I still wonder if a telegraph line circa 1850 would actually outperform Rogers in data transmission throughput. When Shaw took over the cable network in parts of the Lower Mainland (Vancouver area) they inherited the mess Rogers had created. I have spoken to Shaw technicians who told me that Rogers would place 10000+ users on a node designed for 1000 users tops. There so called technical support is simply awful, as is their customer support. They are also known for grounding a cable modem by drilling on a live gas line. The solution is simple ditch them. Here is a site with a list of alternatives. http://www.ihaterogers.ca/internet_on1.htm |
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They really need to use USPS for international orders to deal with these outrageous shipping costs.
USPS will be an international shipping method very soon. I already applied for the account and am just waiting to receive the API credentials from USPS. Hopefully it can be online within this week! I want to buy a Microsoft Surface with bitcoins. Will you guys stock this item?
Yes, this will be stocked soon. For a Bitcoin only store it would be cool to implement some mouse-over effect to display the Ƀ-price of items or even better the $ on mouse-over.
Now prices for all items are displayed in BTC and USD On a related note you may wish to take places such as Cuba, North Korea, Iran etc. out of your country list if you do not wish to run afoul of legislation in the United States. Seriously.
Done. Thank you for the advice. Any plans on selling food on BitcoinStore? That would be awesome!
This is an interesting idea that I will look into, but it wont be in the immediate future. Would like to see brand names in the links on the browse pages. Hard to navigate things that are just generically named like "20 inch monitor...".
Still working on this, but it will happen very soon. Price range links don't seem to work. In fact, categorization in general doesn't seem to be correct at all.
Price range links are fixed. If you have other categorization suggestions, please post them here. Meh. How about we just get that bitcoin debit card already and then buy direct from Amazon.
Because Bitcoinstore.com is cheaper than Amazon for lots of things, and especially so after you consider the fees that will be involved in loading the card. Thank you to everyone who has already placed an order!Excellent! |
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For a Bitcoin only store it would be cool to implement some mouse-over effect to display the Ƀ-price of items or even better the $ on mouse-over.
(I'm eager to read about first people reporting their orders being processed with no problems and for shipping to Chile.)
Shipping a laptop to Chile (Santiago) their lowest cost is $453.57 as they only offer Federal Express. I raised the shipping issue over three months ago because of my poor experience in Canada with international shipments via private courier. If there is one thing this store needs to address it is international shipping, and I also strongly believe the best solution is the post office however antiquated and old fashioned this may seem for a Bitcoin store. On a related note you may wish to take places such as Cuba, North Korea, Iran etc. out of your country list if you do not wish to run afoul of legislation in the United States. Seriously. |
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