PowerHash – Good replies, and thanks for clearing up a number of points. I’ll see if I can tidy the post up a bit so we don’t end up with a massive wall of text


Excellent news, and thank you for taking time to consider our questions


That’s good advice, and I was in the same situation months ago. I’ve discovered that, overall, it’s better to release slowly than to toss out the word “million” to investors. Staying low will help you get a feel for how the public reacts to your investment opportunity…knowledge I wish I had when I started off.

Also, are you planning on maintaining the $0.20 per share for the IPO as well as later releases (if there are any)? Just curious, especially given the recent vast price fluctuations.


Makes sense, and thanks for clearing that up. Given the hardware quantities you’re ordering, is there any way to get all the parts / cards wholesale? Maybe you’d be able to work something out with BitcoinStore? I’m not sure anyone has these capabilities, but it still may be something to consider checking out.


It’s hard to say without looking over the numbers, but most managers take 5% off the top. Given all expenses are already taken out of any generated revenue prior to dividends, a smaller managers fee seems more reasonable.

Are you planning on purchasing up a percentage of shares in the fund? [EDIT: Found the answer to this at the end, but that’s ok]. If so, then you’d be paying yourself dividends on top of the manager’s fee, which may make up the difference (depending how much you buy in).


Thanks for clearing that up. With this data in mind, do you have any profit (revenue – expenses) projections for a week/month (just an example)? I can’t say I follow Litecoin all that much, so I’m not terribly versed in its past network hashing speed and average difficulty increases (more on all this momentarily).


Ah ok, I see what you’re saying. I feel like there could be complications down the line for this, but for whatever reason I can’t put my finger on ‘what’ or ‘why’. I’ve spent the last 10 minutes thinking through scenarios where good and bad things can happen, but they seem to work themselves out.

Anyway, it’s probably just me. I prefer the “set limit” method to issuing shares (what ASICMiner, HIM, and others have done), where there’s only so many shares issued and will never increase or decrease. It makes predicting dividends a lot easier and no need to worry about more shares popping up later on


I presume the startup expenses you’re referring to (aside from GPUs) are the cases, racks, cooling, power, etc? Or does it also include the fixed costs (labor, rent, etc)?


Got it, thanks for the clarification.


How do you decide which coin to mine, or how to split between the various coins? Would it be something you’d decide on daily, weekly, or sporadically based on market conditions?

And yes, these are hard questions to answer since there are quite a few factors at play!


Very cool, thanks for the information and I’m glad we could hash through quite a bit of this!

On network difficulty, I certainly agree with you there. It’s one thing to pull together data and averages to try and predict where the Bitcoin network will go…but that becomes quite a bit more convoluted as you jump between Litecoin, Bitcoin, Feathercoin, etc, etc.

My advice on this would be to grab as much data on how Litecoin has been growing over the past 2 (maybe 3) months, take an average, and try to extrapolate that over the next 3 months. Add in the data on your operation and how you see yourself growing, and with that you’ll have an idea regarding revenue. It’s not perfect of course, but seeing sensible numbers on paper will certainly put minds at ease.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s to under promise and over deliver. I look forward to seeing how this project develops.

Quick interjection here..


You're going for a Masters in Economics, and you're trying to tell us that you seriously believe you can sustain a 52% annual ROI for a long time?


Clear to who, exactly? The newbies who bought on hype on page 7?

As I said before, I (and many others) look for details on your investments..not just a typed up asset list. Purchase and sale prices, dates of purchase, quantities purchased on those dates, weighted share value per asset, profit / losses modeled over time..hell, if you're feeling frisky model out a CAPM for your portfolio. The more data I see, the more likely I am to put in my BTC50, BTC100, or BTC200, etc.


EDIT: Where's MPOE? She's usually all over this stuff..

Ok!
If you are indeed a new account (not an alt of someone else), then let me start by saying welcome to the forums! It’s not often you see a legitimate account pop up who starts off their tenure on the forums by launching an IPO.

For those of you that read my other post, this will sound familiar (but still rings true). I respect the decisions made by Havelock administrators, even though I don’t necessarily agree with their decisions. I’m quite surprised by the recent changes, particularly by the astonishing lack of information recently perpetuated by Havelock administration and individuals looking to host their funds.

That said, this isn’t about Havelock, this is about PowerHashMining [PHM], so I’ll keep on topic.

As a forewarning, my responses may sound rude and/or condescending, but I assure you I don’t intend for them to come across that way! I imagine it as if you and I are sitting at a table and I’m asking these questions with more of an upbeat attitude. My goal here is to try and pry as much information as I can about what you’re trying to do. I am not alone in my skepticism, so this will be an opportunity to clear the air.

Generally speaking, the willingness of the OP to thoroughly answer any and all questions can be indicative of the effort they’re willing to put into their business.

Here we go…


[1] – This is impressively short notice when we no really nothing about what you’re trying to do or who you are. Why Monday, July 15th, and why 300,000 shares?

[2] – Hoping to add, or will add? In monetary terms, how much will it take to get up to 50MH/s? What equipment will you purchase?


Just to make sure I’m reading this correctly, whatever is generated within a week (Wednesday to Wednesday) is the revenue. From that amount, you will deduct all expenses for that week (rent, electricity, any replacement parts, and cover any repairs). [1]
From what’s left over, you will keep 15% as a “management fee”, distributing the rest as a dividend.

So we’re essentially purchasing the hardware for you…and giving you 15% (after expenses) just because “labor”? I can understand the expenses part, but 85% (after all expenses) is quite shallow given you’re asking for our coin.

[1] – Bunch of questions here:
How much is rent per month?
How much is electricity per kWh?
How much power does your rig currently consume?
How much power will the fully developed rig consume?
How often do the GPUs break, and when they do what fails first?
How much do replacement parts cost?


So you will, without a doubt, dilute our shares in the future?


Just so I understand, should you sell the full 300,000 shares (valued at $0.20 each), you’re plan with the $60,000 is to purchase $1,600-ish worth in BFL gear, and push the remaining $58,400 in GPUs for alt-coin mining?

I don’t think I have a problem with that plan, I’d just like more detail on the GPUs. And why BFL? Why not splurge the extra $400 for a 100GH/s Mercury from KnC?


Not sure I see any real problem here, though I could be overlooking something other forum members will point out. If anything, I suppose dilution will be a problem with voting rights, but that’s far down the line (supposedly).


Uhh…but you just said there’s voting rights? So shareholders get to vote “upon decisions that affect shareholders as a whole or changes to this agreement” ..but then you reserve the right to change it regardless?
Or are you saying that we can vote on the changes, but only you have the ability to implement the change?


This is guaranteed to happen. You haven’t specified how you plan to expand your operation, so I can only assume you’ll mine on 50MH/s until your hashing power is drowned out by larger or more efficient operations.


Pretty standard stuff.


Final thoughts:

With all honesty, I like the idea. Building up a large scrypt mining operation can certainly generate an income, but this investment is still quite risky.

After going over everything, here are my final questions to you:

-- Who are you? You joined today and yet you’re already asking for $60,000 worth of Bitcoins. In my experience, rarely has any offering fitting this pattern NOT been a scam. I’m not saying you fall in this category, I’m just saying it’s a bit odd, that’s all. Trust is a HUGE factor here..or at least to established members (newbies throw money at everything and anything).

-- Proof of Mining? Where are you currently mining now where we can see the 2.4MH/s in action? What GPUs are you currently using?

-- Financials? Do you have any financial and network models where you show where you think the network is going to go (for Litecoin or the other alt-coins)? As a potential investor, I want to see you do your due diligence on hashing speeds and how our hardware will ultimately benefit us in the end.

-- Your Investment? What are you putting into the fund? Anything other than the already established 2.4MH/s?

Bottom line here is TRANSPARENCY. Give us detail..so much detail that if we printed out each word we could literally swim in pages. Investors want to see what you're doing with their money down to the smallest detail. If you can do that, while providing a reasonable investment opportunity and managing your fund correctly, then I can assure you money won't be a problem in the future.

*grumbles in an old man voice* Back in my day, Havelock actually did a thorough check on users, their business model, and finances before hosting them on the Exchange...oh the times, they are a changin' ...

Anyway, I have no problem with establishing a mining fund for alt-coins. The concept is solid, but the execution..well..could be better. I'll dissect this one and rain down questions in a bit, same as what I did for the "Sandstorm" asset. Twice in one day..phew, this is rough

Hi TAT, allow me to retort

1% dividends -- I sort of took it as an implied promise, based on the quote:
Since it is a "minimum" expectation, I should be able to look forward to 1% per week. What happens if it goes below 1%? I dunno.

Dilution -- If I remember correctly (and anyone feel free to correct me on this), but dilution happens when additional shares are introduced into the market, which can not only have an effect on the price, but also voting control as well. In this case, 100,000 shares are currently issues and dividends / voting power are divided as such. With the introduction of additional shares (up to 1,000,000), both dividends and voting power are diluted (including stock value, depending on how they're priced).

Repurchases -- Yup, pretty right about that...but it's still really quite odd that you'd promise to repurchase stock when things go sour. It's normal for Bonds and Notes, but certainly not Stocks.

Public Asset List -- Wholly agree with you here. If Sandstorm is hosted on multiple exchanges, I'd like to see holdings on each one complied for Investors. That would be pretty cool

Alright. 11 pages later (read twice) and I think I’m ready to craft a response

First, let me preface this by saying I respect the decisions made by Havelock administrators.
In my 9 months of being hosted on their exchange, never once did I ever have any qualms with how operations were run, and Lightbox was always incredibly responsive to questions not only posed by managers, but investors and customers in general.

That said, I’m quite shocked with how this whole situation has developed; between the vagueness of the ‘investment fund’ (more on that momentarily) and the seemingly rushed IPO, something doesn't quite sit right with me given how methodical and organized previous listings were.

To the topic of Sandstorm – here’s where the fun begins. Yes, this will be an extensive post and I apologize. As a forewarning, my responses may sound rude and/or condescending, but I assure you I don’t mean them that way. I imagine it as if you and I are sitting at a table and I’m asking these questions with more of an upbeat attitude.
Generally speaking, the willingness of the OP to thoroughly answer any and all questions can be indicative of the effort they’re willing to put into their business. Let’s see how this goes…


How do you define these strategies? Can you prove your past performance?


[1] – So far as I’ve seen, this has been just ‘words on paper’. Echoing my question above, can you prove your performance on previous investments?  Essentially the question becomes – “how much wealth” over “how much time”?

[2] – Either your inexperience is showing or this was just poorly worded (I’m going with the latter for now). Increasing the amount of capital is not directly correlated to an increase in wealth creation. With improper diversification it’s actually a great way to increase risk…and mismanagement can lead to great losses as well.

[3] – I suppose this goes back to the “sophisticated investment strategies”. A bit of clarity and transparency could make all the difference here.


No contract has been created so far as I’ve seen..more of a prospectus than anything else.


From what I’ve gathered through the rest of the thread, you’re promising a weekly 1% dividend (minimum), with the expectation of achieving growth.
Growth over time is normal, but if you truly are a legitimate fund, then promising a set percent of dividends per week is not possible. There are far too many variables (both known and unknown) to promise anything in Bitcoin, and I’ve learned this firsthand.

I don’t have a problem with dividends. I do have a problem with guaranteeing them, as that’s usually indicative of a scheme.


How do you plan on releasing more shares to the public down the line without diluting investors’ holdings?


I’m actually quite curious about this. Why not mine? Mining can provide a stream of income for your fund, which may be helpful when times get tough (and they will).


Hypothetical scenario:
Sandstorm is sought after in Australia for securities trading and is pending a lawsuit. Managers of Sandstorm are unable to find a suitable foreign replacement to take over and decide to follow through on “Plan B” (repurchasing).
Bitcoin has risen in value to $250 each. Investor [A] owns 1000 shares of Sandstorm, and the 7 day average is BTC0.1.

How do you plan on repurchasing 1050 shares (valued at 105 Bitcoins) now that they’re worth $26,250?


Whether in Bitcoin or “real world” trading, there is no such thing as a low risk / high reward investment. Marketing yourself this way leaves me a bit skeptical.


Naturally, we appreciate the marginal transparency, but after the Bakewell scam names and addresses don’t quite mean as much anymore.


I think you posted the wrong Google Docs link. The ‘financials’ you posted are just shares sold. Where’s the income statement? Maybe a balance sheet? Current assets held by the fund? Dates when shares were bought / sold, their respective prices, profits / losses?

Phew! Now that we’ve got that out of the way, on to the rest of the posts:


Do you have any proof of your holdings and when they were purchased?


TradeFortress has a point, even though he didn’t vocalize it.

I thought the idea of this fund was to make “smart” “low risk” investments? To me, that means only investing in securities which you are confident in. Gambling with potential scams with the hope that “it’ll go up to .0007” is not investing, it’s speculating.

Imagine in those 3 days that the price dropped to .0003. What then? Buy and hold and hope for the best?

As Furuknap aptly noted:

And in terms of being transparent with your actions…


…this is a bit unacceptable. There are numerous ways to show your background operations, which would instantly clear up quite a bit of skepticism.

As I write this, I’m beginning to question why you’re more than willing to reveal your identity, yet you won’t want to reveal the details of your investments. And before you say it, no, that “Asset List” with a bit of math does not qualify as ‘detail’.

Done! (for now of course)
I thank you for taking the time to read this and no hard feelings. We’ve had far too many scams around here and it’s only proper for members to vet new entries. Most the established members here share the same sentiment that I do, so I’m hoping this will provide you with a channel to clear the air so to speak.

Ha, I like how your solution to upgrading a laptop's RAM and processor is to buy a new laptop altogether

It honestly has a lot to do with how many orders the various ASIC companies have and how quickly they can a) catch up on backlog, and b) fill new orders quickly.

My prediction goes well above 1000TH/s, but this takes into account:
--BFL catching up on all backlog (thousands of orders) and shipping in a timely manner (not this day-at-a-time nonsense).
--Avalon catching up on Batch 2 and 3, as well as disclosing any future plans.
--KnCMiner developing and shipping according to their schedule.
--BitFury (and other hardware developers) receive their chips (either Avalon or BFL), boards, and parts so they can complete their devices.
--ASICMiner continues to increase their deployed hardware (including sales) and discloses future plans as well.
--Other unknown or still in development projects / companies.

There's a lot of factors at play at this point..vastly more than any of us could have imagined just 12 months ago.

Not necessarily true. People can utilize a VPN and switch up their IP without a problem...or even just go over Tor. Blocking multiple accounts from the same IP only limits the "casual" sock puppeteers

What bad news are you referring to? Based on what I read on the Winklevii's plans, I'm not sure it's entirely bad for Bitcoin..and why would it be? If I had vested $11m into Bitcoin, I'd surely like that value to go up over time


Probably true. Though it could also be people cashing out (en masse) after mining with their new ASICs..whether from BFL, Avalon, or ASICMiner. For people who paid for the equipment in fiat, I can see why cashing out as quickly as possible would be beneficial.

And as we've all seen before, once the price drops a little, noobs start to panic and dump their coins as well.

Something tells me you've never invested with Havelock...communication and service has never been a problem.

Nope, I put in the full number on the first page. 




Anyway, I'm not worried. I figured I wouldn't make the early groups since preorders started in, what, April / May?

Ah, that makes more sense. I don't think that link was there before when I first posted.

Either way, my apologies JohnyBigs

Really? That's interesting actually, since I'm in the exact same boat (paid 6/4, order #8xx) and I'm just showing "Paid" on the status. Bummer dude

Interesting, I figured he'd disappear off the face of the Earth. Unfortunately I don't ever use twitter, but for those that do maybe spreading the word might help!

I see what you're saying.

So if I switch it up to " I'll have the project done by Friday ", what does that mean to you? To me (and my employers are least), it means that by Friday morning when I arrive everything is done so we can go over it ..not 11:59pm that Friday night.

Anyway, I don't even know why we're arguing this haha ..difficulty isn't going to get past 100m by the end of September.

So if I say "I'll be at work by 8am", I really mean "between 8am and 8:59:59am"?

I think it would be good to have optional 2 factor authentication, assuming it's not too difficult to implement. That might help curb some of the recent hacking attempts.

If a mod / theymos is reading this ..thoughts?

A bit optimistic, eh? ..considering BTC100 per share would mean ASICMiner is worth BTC40,000,000..or almost double the value of the entire Bitcoin economy.

If anything, double digits is certainly possible.