- Putin has decided to allow humanitarian corridors... for Ukrainians to go to his RUSSIA.
Fake.
 - Putin is shelling civil targets. Please, someone out there deny this, I am eager for an excuse to post 50 photos here.
Technically true, but misleading at best. Deception comes from engaging opposing forces located inside of civilian buildings, vs just blindly carpet bombing whole cities, which is clearly not the case here.
Straw man. They may be not shelling whole cities but sure as shit they're hitting apartment buildings, private housing, hospitals, and people just driving the fuck away from the cities. Tell us more tales about evil forces hiding in those building though. What a pillock. paxmao makes a claim that "Putin decided to allow humanitarian corridors... for Ukrainians to go to his RUSSIA", i refute it by providing a list of routes agreed by both sides, with many leading to Ukraine. And what do you do, you just come in with a proposed evacuation plan hoping no one would notice the difference? Way to go! How many of those cities are fully encircled by Russia with no Ukrainian controlled links to Ukraine? Currently only Mariupol is fully besieged, and from your own diagram Russia proposed two evacuation routes from Mariupol, to Russia and Ukraine. Russia has now fired more than 710 missiles against Ukraine and as of last night per UN reports civilian casualties are at 516 killedInterfax Ukraine news agency earlier cited Kyrylo Tymoshenko, deputy head of the president's office, as saying a total of around 48,000 Ukrainians had been evacuated through humanitarian corridors so far https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/around-48000-ukrainians-have-been-evacuated-through-humanitarian-corridors-2022-03-09/With that info in mind, what could be the the reason why 400,000 civilians are not allowed to evacuate Mariupol, a besieged city without food, heat, power, or water that is on a brink of humanitarian crisis? There's only one reason that i could find that's at least as old as Geneva Convention
- Putin is shelling civil targets. Please, someone out there deny this, I am eager for an excuse to post 50 photos here.
Technically true, but misleading at best. Deception comes from engaging opposing forces located inside of civilian buildings, vs just blindly carpet bombing whole cities, which is clearly not the case here. There are plenty of video proofs of Ukrainian soldiers engaging from top/inside of buildings. These are fare game under the law of war. Can you come up with ANY previous "operation"/war by any nation where civilian targets weren't targeted?
Please don't contribute to disseminating fakes
Wait so this is your proof that all the reports from independent journalists on the ground, global intelligence officials, and actual civilians that were shelled are lying? There are plenty of video proofs of Ukrainian soldiers engaging from top/inside of buildings. Have you considered that Putin could be targeting civilians in one area, and also, at the same time, but in a totally different area, Ukrainians could be fighting from top/inside buildings? And when Russian state media says Ukraine is using civilians as human shields, they're just putin lies in your head? I consider that all the time, I don't trust Putin's claims any more than you do, and no one should, but the thing is I don't trust the other side's claims either. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that civilians are not being shelled. In fact, we know for a fact that they are, and innocent people ARE dying every single day. War is hell, its never good. I'm just underlining the hypocrisy in coverage, pointing out how everyone is being activated under a hive mind, mass hysteria is being triggered to a point where people are ready to risk all human life on this blue marble. But facts just don't support the narrative of Putin as a blood thirsty monster trying to kill as many Ukrainians as possible. Every war is bad and has collateral damage, when we compare the numbers to other operations/wars there is nothing special about this one, if anything so far civilian casualties are lower when compared to other similar conflicts. Sure all of it is bad, but if we want to stop it, shouldn't we start with the biggest offender? Food for thought, The largest Ukrainian diaspora is in Russia. Since 2014, beginning of the conflict, number of Ukrainians in Russia only increased Since the start of this "operation"/war 24 February 2022, despite checkpoints and Martial Law, 99,300 Ukrainian refugees somehow managed to flee to the aggressor Russia 48,000 Ukrainians had been evacuated from cities (but not from Mariupol)With that in mind, ask yourself why innocent civilians are not being evacuated from Mariupol, the only besieged city with starving people. I could only come up with two options (do correct me if you can think of more) Option 1 - Putin and his army generals have gone mad, going against all commons sense and military strategies, they fake 5 cease fires and delay the siege all just to continue keeping 400.000 innocent civilians inside the city before attacking it. Option 2 - Army does what armies have done numerous times throughout the history when defending against a much larger force, they just don't want to die. [moderator's note: consecutive posts merged] |
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I can see al the Putin's apologists want to make all the discussion about "nazi" here "nazi" there... let's open the perspective a little bit:
- Putin has ordered a list of hostile countries to be compiled. His advisors told him that it might be much much faster to make a list of "Non-hostile" countries.
- Putin has decided to allow humanitarian corridors... for Ukrainians to go to his RUSSIA.
- Putin is shelling civil targets. Please, someone out there deny this, I am eager for an excuse to post 50 photos here.
You see... there are so things that are actually relevant to this war as opposed to the lamest propaganda out here. Seriously guys, the old USSR would have never lasted a year if you guys were in the "communications" teams.
When Switzerland, Luxemburg, Israel and Turkey vote together against you, it is time to re-think your strategy.
- Putin has ordered a list of hostile countries to be compiled. His advisors told him that it might be much much faster to make a list of "Non-hostile" countries.Fake. There are 195 countries in the world. The list includes;
United States
Canada
the EU states
UK (including Jersey
Anguilla
British Virgin Islands
Gibraltar
Ukraine
Montenegro
Switzerland
Albania
Andorra
Iceland
Liechtenstein
Monaco
Norway
San Marino
North Macedonia
Japan
South Korea
Australia
Micronesia
New Zealand
Singapore
Taiwan (considered a territory of China, but ruled by its own administration since 1949) https://news.yahoo.com/russia-publishes-list-of-unfriendly-countries-after-invasion-of-ukraine-110619175.html- Putin has decided to allow humanitarian corridors... for Ukrainians to go to his RUSSIA.Fake. Vereshchuk said the ceasefire would allow civilians to escape through "green corridors" in the following areas:
Energodar-Zaporizhia
Sumy-Poltava
Mariupol-Zaporizhia
Volnovakha-Pokrovsk
Izium-Lozova
Vorzel, Bucha, Irpin, Borodyanka, Gostomel-Kyiv https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-09-22/h_60fb5ac93b69a983ba05fcaad774c602- Putin is shelling civil targets. Please, someone out there deny this, I am eager for an excuse to post 50 photos here.Technically true, but misleading at best. Deception comes from engaging opposing forces located inside of civilian buildings, vs just blindly carpet bombing whole cities, which is clearly not the case here. There are plenty of video proofs of Ukrainian soldiers engaging from top/inside of buildings. These are fare game under the law of war. Can you come up with ANY previous "operation"/war by any nation where civilian targets weren't targeted? Please don't contribute to disseminating fakes |
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Refugees fleeing Ukraine (since 24 February 2022)
Russian Federation 8 Mar 2022 99,300
My apologies, there were 96000 other people that fled before the war plus the 99000 after the war started. Sorry this one word was such a hard trigger for you. My excuse is that your link doesn't open in Tor and the numbers I was thinking about were from a few days ago. My point still stands, Putin is not being accused of bombing people in DNR/LNR or Russia, he's being accused of bombing people in the parts of Ukraine that aren't under his control. And while I deserve the ridicule for getting one fact wrong in the post where I told you to get your facts right, this... Why do you hold people in this thread for imbeciles, you deceive, manipulate, and now straight out lie? Is it because 100.000 Ukrainians illegally fleeing to Russia since February 24th during a Martial Law undercuts your whole narrative that evil Putin indiscriminately killing Ukrainians? And justifies keeping 200.000 civilian without food water and power from evacuating a besieged city? I was expecting more out of you. I hold this place to higher regard, back up your claims or GTFO, this is not the place for hive minds go to social network with your trolling. ... is fucking mad. Get help before it's too late. You chose a better option, nevertheless, you discredited yourself, your claims will be views as mere opinions unless you cite everything with neutral sources. |
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As to your other angle, it all comes down to perspectives or frames of reference if you wish. One side tries to frame the conflict in terms of a separate, individual localized incident where Russia out of the blue attacks small Ukraine for a land grab. Very easy to argue for Ukraine as a victim and dismiss Russia with crazy Putin as a big bad aggressor, pretty clear cut whats good and bad.
Georgia 2008, Ukraine 2014, no, it's not "individual localized", it follows the pattern of Putin attempting to resurrect a totalitarian dictatorship, collapse of which he not-so-subtly called the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century. How does it not "make sense at all" for Ukraine to acquire defensive capabilities after the aforementioned aggressions? Surely it makes at least some sense if you really want to step back and take a look at the whole picture and not just Putin's "interests". Now this is where things get very nuanced, not so black and white, and now whats good and whats bad isn't so clear anymore. Just because things are complicated doesn't make Russia right, but people start thinking, and this is not the field mass media and people with agenda, want to play on.
No, it's still actually quite clear, no need to muddy the waters here. If Alice robs Bob's house and Carol's house and Carol buys a baseball bat and Alice comes back to rob Carol 8 years later, no sane person would think that this is complicated or nuanced. After Saudis double tap a Yemen funeral with a 500 pound laser-guided bombs manufactured by the United States resulting in 155 killed, US sells $110 billion in weapons in 2017 and $350 billion over 10 years to Saudi Arabia while Saudis are still involved in the Yemeni war causing (8,672 civilians killed and 9,741 injured by coalition's airstrikes) and no one bats an eye, the war is still ongoing. Russia starts a conflict in Ukraine with 406 civilians killed and everyone looses it, Russian funds are stolen, every mass media is covering the war almost 24/7, major cities light up their buildings in the colors of the Ukrainian flag, online warriors are activated and put Ukrainian flags in the profile, and people want to start WW3 by asking NATO to start shooting down Russian planes ("no fly zone"). Clearly all due to the loss of human life and because Saudis are not a dictatorship  So in your twisted world selling weapons and using weapons is the same thing? Really? That's what you got out of this? The world of the day is Complicity. "From March 9 to September 9, 2022, the Bank of Russia establishes the following procedure for issuing funds from foreign currency deposits or accounts of citizens: all customer funds from foreign currency accounts or deposits … the client can withdraw up to 10 thousand US dollars in cash, and the rest of the funds — in rubles at the market rate on the day of issue," the statement read. https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-08-22/h_169c24d4b4d3933e6cd5b173bafc3db8Looks like they're doubling down and completely locking themselves out of foreign currency. US sanctions Russian oil and gas, not much left to loose, next domino to fall is Russia switching to eating potatoes while sanctioning Nord Stream1. Guaranteed global recession at best. Ukraine is fucked, Russia is fucked, Europe is fucked. US  . China is golden. BTC continues to do its own thing, no fucks given |
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... Despite Martial Law and checkpoints 100.000 Ukrainian refugees still somehow managed to flee to Russian side
The vast majority of those happened before the war from Donbas, i.e. region already controlled by Russia. Again, why would Putin kill civilians in territories he controls. Russian forces are accused of indiscriminate bombing, of which there is plenty of evidence, and they aren't really denying it (the excuse is "human shields"). ... Why do you hold people in this thread for imbeciles, you deceive, manipulate, and now straight out lie? Is it because 100.000 Ukrainians illegally fleeing to Russia since February 24th during a Martial Law undercuts your whole narrative that evil Putin indiscriminately killing Ukrainians? And justifies keeping 200.000 civilian without food water and power from evacuating a besieged city? I was expecting more out of you. I hold this place to higher regard, back up your claims or GTFO, this is not the place for hive minds go to social network with your trolling. Refugees fleeing Ukraine (since 24 February 2022)
Russian Federation 8 Mar 2022 99,300
https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/ukraine/location?secret=unhcrrestricted"The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is needed to produce it." |
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...
No, it's still actually quite clear, no need to muddy the waters here. If Alice robs Bob's house and Carol's house and Carol buys a baseball bat and Alice comes back to rob Carol 8 years later, no sane person would think that this is complicated or nuanced.
After Saudis double tap a Yemen funeral with a 500 pound laser-guided bombs manufactured by the United States resulting in 155 killed, US sells $110 billion in weapons in 2017 and $350 billion over 10 years to Saudi Arabia while Saudis are still involved in the Yemeni war causing (8,672 civilians killed and 9,741 injured by coalition's airstrikes) and no one bats an eye, the war is still ongoing. Russia starts a conflict in Ukraine with 406 civilians killed and everyone looses it, Russian funds are stolen, every mass media is covering the war almost 24/7, major cities light up their buildings in the colors of the Ukrainian flag, online warriors are activated and put Ukrainian flags in the profile, and people want to start WW3 by asking NATO to start shooting down Russian planes ("no fly zone"). Clearly all due to the loss of human life and because Saudis are not a dictatorship Again, two wrongs... but you already know that, so what's your point here? The war is fine, the reaction to it is bad? Honestly I'm struggling to follow. If you want to ignore what's happening in Ukraine I'm sure no one will arrest you for doing so. US killed exponentially more people, in multiple conflicts -two wrongs... NATO bombing Kosovo without UN approval Human Rights Watch counted approximately 500 civilians killed by the bombing, overall 3,368 civilians presumed dead -whataboutism No one called them wars,  -whataboutism US is directly profiting from selling bombs that are dropped on school buses killing 40 children if we're concerned about civilian lives we can stop that war right now -Putin is a war criminal Saudi king kills, dismembered and then destroyed in acid, a journalist. And CIA had concluded that Mohammed bin Salman ordered Khashoggi's assassination. ... -Putin is a dictator, two wrongs... With over 600 bombs dropped, and a ton of military casualties, civilians killed is at 406. Objectively Civilian casualty ratio indicates Russian military are showing restraint, and minimizing civilian losses, in these terms this conflict is most "humane" comparing to any other conflict. -Russia is targeting civilians and trying to kill all Ukrainians The largest Ukrainian diaspora is in Russia -Russia is targeting civilians and trying to kill all Ukrainians Despite Martial Law and checkpoints 100.000 Ukrainian refugees still somehow managed to flee to Russian side  -Russia is targeting civilians and trying to kill all Ukrainians In the War of Donbas (Russian controlled region of Ukraine) there are 3,393 civilians killed -Russia is targeting civilians and trying to kill all Ukrainians Russia besieged Mariupol on the 3rd, they're not entering the city, four ceasefire attempts were made to get 200.000 civilians to leave the city, all called off by Ukrainian side due to concern for civilians safety -Russia shooting civilians forcing them to stay in the city so that Russia will have to attack the city with 200.000 civilians inside Ukraine has neo-nazi battalion regiment with estimated more than 2,500 members. Neo-nazy party. They apparently also do torch marches in the middle of European capital  -Two wrongs... Global neo-Nazi and white supremacist extremist foreign fighters have sought training and combat experience by joining ultranationalist defense militias in Ukraine. -Not a problem. Two wrongs... Ukrainian government has publicly acknowledged that African immigrants seeking to flee the violence have faced racist, disparate treatment compared to white Ukrainians. -Two wrongs... Are concerns about expanding NATO valid -No because it comes with freedom fries and packed with preferential trade agreements Historically how many coupes/revolutions instigated by US turned well for said country --not relevant Tons of blatant fakes flying around, no one calls them out or fact checks them -Those are morale boosters All news from the other side has been censored -That's because we love freedom just so much Didn't US bankrupt Venezuela, stole their money, disconnect them from SWIFT, causing largest exodus in Latin America’ 6mil, because of that bloody dictator Maduro, and now Senior American officials are in Venezuela this weekend to meet with the government of Nicolás Maduro -Putin is a dictator How flooding a country with ton of weapons worked out previously now that 17,000 anti-tank missiles and 2,000 stinger anti-aircraft missiles are going into a European country about to be taken over? -not relevant What are the chances that Ukraine can actually win and this, and conflict is not being dragged out to further vilify Putin -how dare you Now STFU and put up a Ukrainian flag in your online profile. Just pointing out how illogical the arguments are. On a totally unrelated note, just going to leave this here Churchill's percentage division of control over Eastern European countries, dividing them into spheres of influence. Franklin Roosevelt was consulted tentatively and conceded to the agreement.  “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.” ― Edmund Burke |
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As to your other angle, it all comes down to perspectives or frames of reference if you wish. One side tries to frame the conflict in terms of a separate, individual localized incident where Russia out of the blue attacks small Ukraine for a land grab. Very easy to argue for Ukraine as a victim and dismiss Russia with crazy Putin as a big bad aggressor, pretty clear cut whats good and bad.
Georgia 2008, Ukraine 2014, no, it's not "individual localized", it follows the pattern of Putin attempting to resurrect a totalitarian dictatorship, collapse of which he not-so-subtly called the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century. How does it not "make sense at all" for Ukraine to acquire defensive capabilities after the aforementioned aggressions? Surely it makes at least some sense if you really want to step back and take a look at the whole picture and not just Putin's "interests". Now this is where things get very nuanced, not so black and white, and now whats good and whats bad isn't so clear anymore. Just because things are complicated doesn't make Russia right, but people start thinking, and this is not the field mass media and people with agenda, want to play on.
No, it's still actually quite clear, no need to muddy the waters here. If Alice robs Bob's house and Carol's house and Carol buys a baseball bat and Alice comes back to rob Carol 8 years later, no sane person would think that this is complicated or nuanced. After Saudis double tap a Yemen funeral with a 500 pound laser-guided bombs manufactured by the United States resulting in 155 killed, US sells $110 billion in weapons in 2017 and $350 billion over 10 years to Saudi Arabia while Saudis are still involved in the Yemeni war causing (8,672 civilians killed and 9,741 injured by coalition's airstrikes) and no one bats an eye, the war is still ongoing. Russia starts a conflict in Ukraine with 406 civilians killed and everyone looses it, Russian funds are stolen, every mass media is covering the war almost 24/7, major cities light up their buildings in the colors of the Ukrainian flag, online warriors are activated and put Ukrainian flags in the profile, and people want to start WW3 by asking NATO to start shooting down Russian planes ("no fly zone"). Clearly all due to the loss of human life and because Saudis are not a dictatorship |
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~
So tired of the "nazi" argument and a "nazi government" led by a jew, ~
Exactly. Look at the wiki page on the Right Sector, a far-right Ukrainian nationalist political party. and look how many of them in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, the Supreme Council of Ukraine:  Zero. Putin is a liar. Damn your link lead me to a deep deeeep rabbit hole, and it appeared to be a Nazi rabbit Sure there are Nazi, KKK ... sympathizers everywhere but i'm not aware of anywhere where they're allowed to form military battalions like Azov Battalion In 2017, the size of the regiment was estimated at more than 2,500 members.Are there records of Ukrainian government officially denouncing/condemning/prosecuting them? How do average people react to them i.e. would an average person turn around and cross the street if they see them coming their way? Holly shit I was reading just about the Azov Battalion, but this Right Sector is not much better ...right-wing to far-right Ukrainian nationalist neo-nazi[8] political party and paramilitary movement.
…The coalition became a political party on 22 March 2014, at which time it claimed to have roughly 10,000 members.
...Right Sector's political ideology has been described as hardline right-wing nationalist, neo-fascist, or neo-Nazi, and right-wing, far-right or radical right.
...According to the UN Human Rights Council, Right Sector is one of "potentially violent militias that acted seemingly on their own authority, thanks to a high level of official toleration, and with almost complete impunity, both in the Donbass region and in wider Ukraine" that "use violence or threats of violence to exert pressure on persons holding dissenting views, the judicial system andother mechanisms of accountability".
...In the 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary election Yarosh as a Right Sector candidate won a parliament seat by winning a single-member district with 29.8% of the votes.
...Right Sector spokesperson Boryslav Bereza as an independent candidate also won a seat and district with 29.4% of the votes.
...In December 2021 the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine refused to disclose any details on cooperation with Yarosh citing the confidentiality of the information requested.
...The Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported anti-Semitic incidents involving Svoboda and Right Sector during the demonstration, where their militants were calling political opponents "Zhyd" and flying flags with neo-Nazi symbols. According to Haaretz, these organizations were also distributing translated editions of Mein Kampf and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to the demonstrators in Independence Square.
...In April 2014, Yarosh allegedly demanded to be appointed Vice Prime Minister for the law enforcement matters but his demand was rejected; he was offered a post of the Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine instead[76][77] but Yarosh rejected this position as being beneath him.
...European Union's High Representative for Foreign Affairs, Catherine Ashton, stated, "I strongly condemn the pressure by activists of the Right Sector who have surrounded the building of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. Such an intimidation of the parliament is against the democratic principles and rule of law."
...On 31 March 2014, a drunken Right Sector activist started shooting near a restaurant in central Kyiv. Three people were wounded, including the deputy head of the Kyiv City State Administration.
...Right Sector was officially registered as a political party by the Ukrainian Ministry of Justice on 22 May 2014.
...On 13 June 2014, a prosecutor's office in Kyiv was stormed by people who claimed to be Right Sector activists.
...In the 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary election, Yarosh as a Right Sector candidate won a parliament seat by winning single-member district number 39 located in Vasylkivka Raion with 29.76% of the votes.
...In the same election, Boryslav Bereza, Right Sector's chief of information, also won a seat as an independent candidate by winning a district in Kyiv with 29.44% of the votes.
...On November 2, 2021, Yarosh said on social media he had been appointed Adviser to the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
...Petro Poroshenko in an interview with DW English in late 2015, claimed that Right Sector was going to be disarmed and taken out of operations in Donbass, but still hasn't done so as of 2017
...On 19 July 2014 Right Sector said it was ready to contribute 5,000 people to fight, if the military provided suitable combat equipment
...In December 2015, group leader Dmytro Yarosh announced that the 5th and 8th battalions, and the medical battalion, would be incorporated into the Armed Forces of Ukraine following his departure from Right Sector.[42] The UVC, if possible, would become part of the National Guard of Ukraine and will in the near future report to the Ministry of Internal Affairs or would be incorporated into the Ukrainian Ground Forces.
...Right Sector has been described by BBC News as a "Ukrainian nationalist group"[20] and an "umbrella organization of far-right groups",[130] while Time has described it as a "radical right-wing group ... a coalition of militant ultra-nationalists",[29] with an ideology that "borders on fascism".[10] The New York Times has described it as a "nationalist group" and a "coalition of once-fringe Ukrainian nationalist groups".[19] The Guardian has identified it as a "nationalist Ukrainian group",[131] Reuters as a "far-right nationalist group",[132] Agence France Presse as a "far-right" group,[32] and the Wall Street Journal as an "umbrella group for far-right activists and ultranationalists".[133] Die Welt, the New York Times, and Le Monde Diplomatique have described some of Right Sector's constituent groups as radical right-wing, neofascist, or neo-Nazi, but also that is distanced itself from antisemitism.
...According to journalist Oleg Shynkarenko, Yarosh has indicated that Right Sector opposes homosexuality and has also implied that the right of the nation trumps human rights.
...Academic and media sources have described some of Right Sector's constituent groups as right-wing nationalist,[18][144] ultranationalist,[49][145] neo-fascist,[52] neo-Nazi,[49] right-wing,[52] radical right or far right,[146][147][148] ultra-conservative,[50] and paramilitary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_SectorBut that lead me to Svoboda party. They got 890 / 43.122 regions and 1 seat in the Verkhovna Rada ...It has been also widely considered as a neofascist, neo-Nazi and antisemitic party by multiple journalists and organizations, although those labels are disputed, while some consider them as a radical-right nationalist party.
...Svoboda has been described as an anti-Semitic and sometimes a neo-Nazi party by some journalists,[121][126][139] organizations that monitor hate speech,[140] Jewish organizations,[141][142] and political opponents.
...In December 2012, the European Parliament expressed concern regarding Svoboda's growing support, recalling "that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU's fundamental values and principles,"
...Party leader Oleh Tyahnybok stated in March 2013 that the EU warning against Svoboda's influence was the result of "Moscow agents working through a Bulgarian socialist MP".
...The previous name of the party was an intentional reference to the Nazi Party in Germany, as "Social National" is a reference to "National Socialism", the ideology claimed by the Nazi Party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)Then i stumbled to this in center of Kiev  Head of Jewish group notes Nazi symbol appeared in Kiev ahead of march there Saturday by torch-carrying nationalists
...The street where the shopping mall is located is named for Stepan Bandera, a Ukrainian nationalist who briefly collaborated with Nazi Germany in its fight against Russia. His troops are believed to have killed thousands of Jews.
...video was taken by a shopper on Saturday night, hours before several hundred nationalists marched through Kiev carrying torches.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/staircase-in-ukraine-mall-decorated-with-giant-swastika/Torch carrying nationalists in the capital of the European city could be? Well appears to be so    Non of this looked good. Is there condition (from Germany?) that those 17.000 provided anti tank missiles don't get in the hands of these guys? |
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Are you lost? Cause you seem to be lost. In any case, if you're not, you will be! |
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Are we so brainwashed we support local censorship but condemn Russians for doing the same? Are we so brainwashed we call Putin's acts inhumane but we support hatred against average Russians who have nothing to do with this? I have no idea. One thing is sure, we are being lied one way or another. Orwell was right. We are currently living in his world without a doubt. If someone has a contradictory argument, please come up and write it down. I am really too confused by what is going on to understand what is good and bad anymore.
You've fallen into the trap of false equivalence. Putin's regime attacked an independent country, lied about "military exercises" / no intention to attack Ukraine / "special operation" / not targeting civilians; threatened with nuclear weapons; persecutes, beats up, arrests people for merely saying "no to war", and that's just off the top of my head for the last couple of weeks. Ukrainian government possibly lied about their losses in the war. Same thing? Surely some kremlintroll will be around soon to tell me that some Ukrainian lied about something else too. Also the US invaded countries. Et cetera. Whataboutism is a favorite tool of Soviet propaganda, very easy to use and quite effective on a mass scale. Then there is this whole "average Russians" thing. I don't know who's telling you to hate them but you shouldn't. Average Russians are victims of the regime too. I struggle with the whataboutism, sure, ethically you cannot justify littering just because you saw someone else do it. But in a competitive environment that simply doesn't work, and the appropriate term for such action is preferential treatment/discrimination, and it just gives an unfair advantage to one side. For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law e.g. Coworker comes in late all the time, but the first time you come in 15min late to work you get written up/reprimanded. Or your team gets a fault for doing exactly the same thing that the opposing team was allowed to do the whole game. Or your kids test gets marked down for the same mistakes that all of the other kids got away with ... As to your other angle, it all comes down to perspectives or frames of reference if you wish. One side tries to frame the conflict in terms of a separate, individual localized incident where Russia out of the blue attacks small Ukraine for a land grab. Very easy to argue for Ukraine as a victim and dismiss Russia with crazy Putin as a big bad aggressor, pretty clear cut whats good and bad. But taking a step back and looking at a bigger picture you realize that suddenly things are not so simple, and some things don't make sense at all. Clearly by officially providing live intel and 17,000 anti-tank missiles and 2,000 stinger anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine makes it a proxy war for superpowers with Ukraine stuck in the middle. Now this is where things get very nuanced, not so black and white, and now whats good and whats bad isn't so clear anymore. Just because things are complicated doesn't make Russia right, but people start thinking, and this is not the field mass media and people with agenda, want to play on. |
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.....
....even a stopped clock can be correct from time to time - a couple times a day to be more precise.
Indeed.... However, there is no way for one to determine when it is correct, unless one has a working clock next to it, in which case, surely the stopped clock is not only useless, but also irrelevant....Perhaps? I recall an old saying that went something like: You never take two clocks with you when you travel, you either take one or three. |
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I am trying to remain as neutral as possible about this war and this is getting me way too confused. I do not know if people realize how dumb or contradictory so many of their or the mainstream arguments are, and please nobody take this as directed towards a specific user or person over here. Just my thoughts, no negative intents.
...
You seem to forget that Russia started this and Europe is mearly responding. Ughh, see now we're back to discussing what constitutes "starting" and whether third country's diplomatic mission actively coming out on the streets to directly support a coupe/revolution should now be considered an acceptable diplomatic practice? If so im sure Chinese could spare few billions to sponsor Occupy Wall Street, BLM, yellow vest, truck blockades and all of the future "greassroot" movements  You damn well know that by "starting" I mean invading. That goes for you too jojo. I honestly didn't. Its like comparing BTC prices. Both sides can pick a random timeframes for price of BTC to show gains/losses to fit their narratives. If we oversimplify things and just blame the side that started bombing, then NATO bombing of Kosovo without approval of the UN Security Council doesn't sound too good, and sets precedent |
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I am trying to remain as neutral as possible about this war and this is getting me way too confused. I do not know if people realize how dumb or contradictory so many of their or the mainstream arguments are, and please nobody take this as directed towards a specific user or person over here. Just my thoughts, no negative intents.
They are blaming Russia for censoring the Western news and media, but Europe was first in this war with this kind of censorship by removing Russian TV channels, news websites et cetera. I literally see the news that Russia Today is banned all over Europe and few hours later they call out Russia for censoring American or Western newsletters and channels. They call one censorship, and the other one a sanction. The argument about Putin being a pedophile exists on both sides. The propaganda clearly exists in both Western and Russian state media, each having their own purposes to fulfill. I have seen them mentioning how under 100 Ukrainian soldiers have died at the time while the Ukrainian forces have killed over 4,000 Russian soldiers which is just so unrealistic.
I find it mind boggling how Russian propaganda is blamed but we are cheering the Western one. There was this picture of two kids in front of a tank posted by some popular, pro-Ukrainian figure. The caption was specifically mentioning this was a photo from Ukraine, 2022. Comments were filled up with messages such as: 'This is an old photo.' 'Does not matter. The message is the same'. Video game or older clips of previous wars are shown as real Ukrainian fights. Crazy. If Russia does this however, it is blamed. Funny how this works.
Things do get worse. The massive websites of the Internet allow talking about how Putin should be beheaded but you can not even contemplate questioning America's intentions without being banned or censored for it. How should I trust America or Europe when I am not allowed to even research what each side is saying?
Russia warns Ukraine may be staging a specific false flag event and they are told to fuck off. Ukraine says Russia may be staging a specific false flag event and everyone blames Russia for it. We are supporting the assassination of Putin but we are blaming him for trying to assassinate the Ukrainian President. It is like Russians can always only do bad but Americans or Europeans can not and they are the saviors. Do people even realize how contradictory and confusing this is to someone with a neutral set of mind?
We are in the middle of a very strong war of information and interests. I sometimes feel like I am living in the middle of a Zombie apocalypse. Everyone seems to blindly support whatever they see is trendy and considered 'the right way of thinking' without even thinking for real anymore. They are feeding us exactly the way we have to think and we are gladly eating their food. But there is no more food for thought anymore. Some stock exchanges allow only closing Russian stock positions and selling but then if we are only allowed to sell, who are we selling to? For the last part, I may have understood this the wrong way. Has anyone been through this and can confirm you can close positions AND sell?
Russia is getting sanctions over sanctions, their economy is drowned. This ultimately affects all of us, not just Russians. It affects just the average humans, not the upper class, and we tend to forget this. They have jets, they have money, they have influence. They can get over it, but the average human lives paycheck to paycheck. Now I see a xenophobia similar to the way humans perceived Asian people back in 2020. There is a huge hate of Russians worldwide right now, and it gets worse. The hatred is cheered and fed by almost the entire world. But once again, the ones to suffer will be the average Russians who have nothing to do with what is currently going on in Ukraine.
There were so many wars before, and in most of them the United States always seemed to be implicated. Yet nobody wore the affected country's flags, nobody wanted to offer refugees a home, a bed or food to eat. How all of a sudden everyone wants to help out Ukraine is a big food for thought for me. I have been told they were different, but how exactly? How do we define a war that is good and one that is bad if we never cared about civilians losing lives before but now suddenly we do?
I will add the virus situation in the middle of all of this. Two weeks ago we were fearing a virus nobody seems to care about anymore. Protests are now allowed, gatherings of soldiers are just fine, it is like there is no virus to fear anymore. I have even heard multiple times that the pandemic has been over since the middle of March. Wait, what?! What is going on really? How is it over when only two weeks ago everyone seemed to still fear a Covid infection? When did we get over a pandemic?!
This all already has such a strong impact over all of us and our lives, but we are too preoccupied with what the media is feeding our brains. I definitely do not support and or want a war but this will ultimately turn into a giant global crisis, maybe one we have never seen in history before.
Are we so brainwashed we support local censorship but condemn Russians for doing the same? Are we so brainwashed we call Putin's acts inhumane but we support hatred against average Russians who have nothing to do with this? I have no idea. One thing is sure, we are being lied one way or another. Orwell was right. We are currently living in his world without a doubt. If someone has a contradictory argument, please come up and write it down. I am really too confused by what is going on to understand what is good and bad anymore.
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Regards,
PrivacyG
You seem to forget that Russia started this and Europe is mearly responding. Ughh, see now we're back to discussing what constitutes "starting" and whether third country's diplomatic mission actively coming out on the streets to directly support a coupe/revolution should now be considered an acceptable diplomatic practice? If so im sure Chinese could spare few billions to sponsor Occupy Wall Street, BLM, yellow vest, truck blockades and all of the future "greassroot" movements |
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I am trying to remain as neutral as possible about this war and this is getting me way too confused. I do not know if people realize how dumb or contradictory so many of their or the mainstream arguments are, and please nobody take this as directed towards a specific user or person over here. Just my thoughts, no negative intents.
They are blaming Russia for censoring the Western news and media, but Europe was first in this war with this kind of censorship by removing Russian TV channels, news websites et cetera. I literally see the news that Russia Today is banned all over Europe and few hours later they call out Russia for censoring American or Western newsletters and channels. They call one censorship, and the other one a sanction. The argument about Putin being a pedophile exists on both sides. The propaganda clearly exists in both Western and Russian state media, each having their own purposes to fulfill. I have seen them mentioning how under 100 Ukrainian soldiers have died at the time while the Ukrainian forces have killed over 4,000 Russian soldiers which is just so unrealistic.
I find it mind boggling how Russian propaganda is blamed but we are cheering the Western one. There was this picture of two kids in front of a tank posted by some popular, pro-Ukrainian figure. The caption was specifically mentioning this was a photo from Ukraine, 2022. Comments were filled up with messages such as: 'This is an old photo.' 'Does not matter. The message is the same'. Video game or older clips of previous wars are shown as real Ukrainian fights. Crazy. If Russia does this however, it is blamed. Funny how this works.
Things do get worse. The massive websites of the Internet allow talking about how Putin should be beheaded but you can not even contemplate questioning America's intentions without being banned or censored for it. How should I trust America or Europe when I am not allowed to even research what each side is saying?
Russia warns Ukraine may be staging a specific false flag event and they are told to fuck off. Ukraine says Russia may be staging a specific false flag event and everyone blames Russia for it. We are supporting the assassination of Putin but we are blaming him for trying to assassinate the Ukrainian President. It is like Russians can always only do bad but Americans or Europeans can not and they are the saviors. Do people even realize how contradictory and confusing this is to someone with a neutral set of mind?
We are in the middle of a very strong war of information and interests. I sometimes feel like I am living in the middle of a Zombie apocalypse. Everyone seems to blindly support whatever they see is trendy and considered 'the right way of thinking' without even thinking for real anymore. They are feeding us exactly the way we have to think and we are gladly eating their food. But there is no more food for thought anymore. Some stock exchanges allow only closing Russian stock positions and selling but then if we are only allowed to sell, who are we selling to? For the last part, I may have understood this the wrong way. Has anyone been through this and can confirm you can close positions AND sell?
Russia is getting sanctions over sanctions, their economy is drowned. This ultimately affects all of us, not just Russians. It affects just the average humans, not the upper class, and we tend to forget this. They have jets, they have money, they have influence. They can get over it, but the average human lives paycheck to paycheck. Now I see a xenophobia similar to the way humans perceived Asian people back in 2020. There is a huge hate of Russians worldwide right now, and it gets worse. The hatred is cheered and fed by almost the entire world. But once again, the ones to suffer will be the average Russians who have nothing to do with what is currently going on in Ukraine.
There were so many wars before, and in most of them the United States always seemed to be implicated. Yet nobody wore the affected country's flags, nobody wanted to offer refugees a home, a bed or food to eat. How all of a sudden everyone wants to help out Ukraine is a big food for thought for me. I have been told they were different, but how exactly? How do we define a war that is good and one that is bad if we never cared about civilians losing lives before but now suddenly we do?
I will add the virus situation in the middle of all of this. Two weeks ago we were fearing a virus nobody seems to care about anymore. Protests are now allowed, gatherings of soldiers are just fine, it is like there is no virus to fear anymore. I have even heard multiple times that the pandemic has been over since the middle of March. Wait, what?! What is going on really? How is it over when only two weeks ago everyone seemed to still fear a Covid infection? When did we get over a pandemic?!
This all already has such a strong impact over all of us and our lives, but we are too preoccupied with what the media is feeding our brains. I definitely do not support and or want a war but this will ultimately turn into a giant global crisis, maybe one we have never seen in history before.
Are we so brainwashed we support local censorship but condemn Russians for doing the same? Are we so brainwashed we call Putin's acts inhumane but we support hatred against average Russians who have nothing to do with this? I have no idea. One thing is sure, we are being lied one way or another. Orwell was right. We are currently living in his world without a doubt. If someone has a contradictory argument, please come up and write it down. I am really too confused by what is going on to understand what is good and bad anymore.
-
Regards,
PrivacyG
Fucking another Ruski commie, GO GET HIM!! /sYou appear to have a curious mind, that's rare these days. What you're experiencing is Psyops, winning "hearts and minds of people". Media has been weaponized to unprecedented levels (Even some senators put the now known fake of "Russian warship go fuck yourself" on their Twitter), in essence you are made into an internet soldier, and are forced into a friend/foe mindset. If you're not with us, you must be against us. Even the fact of questioning what you're being fed, or pointing out the obvious fallacies, might make you a foe in the eyes of the others. (Surely deep inside you "know" we're right and they're wrong, so why must you question things). This is made to support ally's morale to encourage them to fight, while totally demoralizing the opponent. I cant help but laugh on some of these things. All of a sudden Iran and Venezuela might become USs friends now. Don't be surprised when China starts something Russia might become a friend once again and the coverage switches once again "America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests" -Henry Kissinger As far as no one wanting refugees just gonna post this: But be careful of the next step, just because you open your eyes and get disillusioned with what you were fed, doesn't automatically make the other side right. Critical thinking must be consistent and applied to both sides. |
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Russia began active preparations for disconnection from the global Internetthis might affect Bitcoin. Short term will be affected by FUD. Long term, mining becomes easier. However the easier mining might drive the price down due to supply going up and demand (from Russia) dropping. Russian coiners will be forced to hodl their bags maybe indefinitely. I see good things long term. Short term quite the dippo. They are not taking into account border towns that can catch wifi & 5G from the air. Also, the people that cross a border into any of other neighboring countries, no one can stop them from downloading a video and uploading it into the network anonymously or to just buy a sim card from the other country and have signal for miles off the border. Well, this is why you depopulate the borders, with a nice no man's land with barbed wire, guns, towers. You know, like old times. Hm. I just realized.... maybe they took Chernobyl not for the reactor trashpile, but for Duga. Steel yard and that woodpecker sound, that's something I have not thought about for 40+ years now... Wow. However this sounds more like a DNS trick than actually chainsawing their AS. The former just allows them to block DNS queries that aren't in their .ru domain (which won't do shit of course), the latter really removes them from the net. BTW if you want to chainsaw these fuckers from your network their IP addresses are here. https://lite.ip2location.com/russian-federation-ip-address-rangesThey even have downloads in iptables or cisco ACL formats. Or just route their traffic to 127.0.0.1 Don't they have connections to China/Kazakhstan, as long as blocks can get through China/Kazakhstan BTC should be fine. It only takes one synced node to share the blocks with the rest. |
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The Russian military will reportedly hold fire and open humanitarian corridors in several Ukrainian cities, the Interfax news agency reports.
Corridors will be opened from Kyiv, Mariupol, Kharkiv and Sumy at the request of French president Emmanuel Macron, the agency cities the Russian defence ministry as saying.
RIA Novosti also reports:
The Russian armed forces, following a request from French President Emmanuel Macron to Russian leader Vladimir Putin, declare a ceasefire regime from 10:00 and open humanitarian corridors, the Interdepartmental Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response in Ukraine said in a statement. Thus, civilians will be able to leave Kyiv, Mariupol, Kharkov and Sumy.
At the same time, during the opening of humanitarian corridors, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will carry out continuous objective monitoring of the evacuation, including with the use of UAVs. Therefore, we warn that all attempts by the Ukrainian side to once again deceive Russia and the entire civilised world in disrupting the humanitarian operation, allegedly through the fault of the Russian Federations this time around are useless and pointless.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/07/ukraine-news-russia-war-latest-news-vladimir-putin-zelenskiy-kyiv-russian-invasion-civilian-attacks-irpin-ceasefire-live-updates?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with:block-622597658f0885faa96cac68#block-622597658f0885faa96cac68Looks like theres still a chance to get civilians out. Hopefully Macron can apply pressure on both sides to force them to let the people through. Red Cross should get its own drones to make sure that no one plays dirty, civilians shouldn't be kept in the besieged city under any pretense. |
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A third country that is not officially a part of the conflict and not under any direct attack/threat of an attack, starting a nuclear war, with justification of better now than later, what can possibly go wrong.
"evil begets evil, shooting will only make it stronger" The 5th Elementhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKYAfdcMYJYjust sucks all around i guess Yep nuclear deterrent only* *unless they know that we know that they know that we know that they know that we know that they'll attack first, then its ok for us to attack with it first. |
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