If you can manage to eldentyrell BFL's ASIC with 28nm FPGAs... this will have come full circle.
Assuming their ASIC actually exists. And also assuming that when they say "ASIC" they don't really mean "old FPGA" like the last time they said they had an ASIC. Fool me once, shame on you -- fool me twice... If they can deliver on their promise of a Single 2.0 that does less than 50w and is as fast or faster than existing Singles, then I'll let them slide on it. Cost isn't an issue if we can't get the average person to buy dedicated Bitcoin mining hardware and proudly display it on their desk and show it to others, no matter who manufactures it. People need skin in the game. |
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But 270mh/sec? I wonder what the amps on that is.
Yes; I should address this. I need to apologize for the slightly imprecise nature of the performance figures at this exact moment… there's a bit of a background story here that doesn't really fit into the website. When I started the "countdown clock" I genuinely believed that 255MH/s was the limit for this design. Then, a few days after starting the clock, I unexpectedly stumbled across a way to free up another 8 SLICEL's and how to keep a bunch of the SLICEX->SLICEL routes from leaving the switchbox. These changes had a ripple effect on routing congestion, and made a massive, massive, massive difference. It was great that I was getting these unexpected improvements, but exploiting this new stuff wreaked havoc on my timeline and schedule. I didn't want to change the deadline, so during the last week I've spent very little time in the lab actually running this stuff and checking power/heat/etc and most of my time in front of fpga_editor. And the last day or so has been really crazy. Anyways, the bottom line is that this is all going to come into much clearer focus over the course of the next week, and my "lame excuse" for not having everything neat-and-tidy when midnight hit is the major performance improvement compared to what I thought I was going to get when I initially set the deadline. Plus, hes going to have to make an Artix 7 or whatever core as well.
Already done that. It isn't tuned, but I'll definitely have an Artix-7 bitstream the day they ship the chips (whenever that is…). Porting this design to other Xilinx devices is really easy. Porting to other fpga architectures like Altera would be a major effort. If you can manage to eldentyrell BFL's ASIC with 28nm FPGAs... this will have come full circle. |
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Can you give us any indication of price? >$5,000? >$25,000?
Can't give you any exact numbers yet. But for a certain model, both numbers are too big, and for another, probably both are still big... we have to decide, but it won't be unaffordable... Regards, BF Labs Inc DiabloD3 that is the indirect mention of at least 2 model. 1 is probably an ASIC single. Ahh, I was interpreting that as somewhere in the ballpark for 2U/500w and 4U/1000w sized for standardized rack mounting. |
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Dear BFL,
I am very interested in ASICs in Singles. It'd be awesome if someone from BFL answered that question.
Signed, the people who aren't trolling this thread, however few we are.
We do like to disclose all information now, but it's important for us to do it in the right time. However, I already have answered that question some time ago (indirectly) if you review our comments. One thing I am sure of, is that people will be very very excited to hear what we have to offer... Regards, BF Labs Inc. Maybe I missed something, but I just read the entire thread over, I didn't see any indirect mention of it. All I saw was mentions that you don't want to announce things before they're a sure thing. Is that what you meant? Because thats totally okay, its just that if you could get a Single 2.0 that has, say, 30-50w power usage (instead of 80w), people would run these 24/7 in their bedrooms due to their increased silence (less power usage == less fan) and be more apt to buy these. Hint hint. |
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Actually ~256.5, because he's taking 5% of everything, which is definitely a smart move. He will have every Spartan-6 board hashing for him at 13.5mh/s. That is awesome for him! Yeah, thats brilliant. But 270mh/sec? I wonder what the amps on that is. Plus, hes going to have to make an Artix 7 or whatever core as well. |
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Happy Dividend Day! Today marks the first half a month of Diablo Mining Company's existence. Shares sold to date: 1804 Dividends paid out today: 10.132855645 BTC Dividends per share paid out today: 0.00561688228658537 BTC Dividends that would have been paid out today if it was a full month: 0.0112337645731707 BTC Dividends paid out all time: 10.132855645 BTC Money uninvested: 0.79785902 BTC Shares held: 97 TYGRR-TECH (7.6 mhash) = 203.70 BTC (737 mhash) 661 BMMO (1 mhash) = 231.35 BTC (661 mhash) 715 BTC-MINING (3.63 mhash) = 715.00 BTC (2595 mhash) 9 007 (1 mhash) = 2.61 BTC (9 mhash) Total investments: 1152.66 BTC Total hashing power: 4002 mhash (equivalent to 0.45 mhash/$) Announcements: Starting today, I am changing the "bonds for DMC" deal. Before I was trading 2 mhash in bonds for 1 share of DMC, now it will be 2.25 mhash per 1 share of DMC. Next month I will be changing it to 2.5 mhash per 1 share of DMC. The bond trading chart is available at http://caspar.adterrasperaspera.com/dmc/trade/ |
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Dear BFL,
I am very interested in ASICs in Singles. It'd be awesome if someone from BFL answered that question.
Signed, the people who aren't trolling this thread, however few we are.
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If your GPU setup is so noisy it shows me that you don't have to care about the noise. That's fine for you, but not automatically true for everyone else.
Nope, I shut my computer off when I go to bed. Yeah.. that is downtime that some of us can't stand. More quieter fans, watercooling and remote locations are all valid options. Immediately wanting to cram a "loud" fan onto a FPGA board because it is industrial but only running the board when you aren't sleeping makes no sense  Because I think we have different definitions of silent. My HHE undervolted to 5 with the GPU fan shut off and all the other case fans shut off, its almost silent. The slowest AFB1212 undervolted to 5v should be dead silent and last for about 15 years. Those two consumer fans should last about 3 before they quit. |
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If your GPU setup is so noisy it shows me that you don't have to care about the noise. That's fine for you, but not automatically true for everyone else.
Nope, I shut my computer off when I go to bed. |
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Are you kidding me? Delta AFB1212. There is no reason to not use industrial fans, no cheap Chinese shit.
Hi I'm not sure what you mean. I just did some comments regarding the suggestion to use Silenx fans instead of Arctic F12. There is no question that there are also other, interesting or even better fans on the market. What you define as a better fan highly depends on your needs. Your Delta fan is quite 'different' to the two other mentioned fans. If someone is looking for a really quiet fan with still good airflow the Arctic F12 and also the Silenx is very interesting. With over 32db(A) the Delta fan is, compared to the other 2, MUCH MORE noisy - too noisy for me. My BFL singles were equipped with a 32db Fan. I was totally disappointed, because I expected something more quiet than a GPU solution. My singles are not running with other fans. AFB1212s will start at 5v. Driving fans at full voltage are noisy anyhow. Also, WTF, my GPU drowns out my AFB1212HHE, thats 47dBA! Also, don't trust cheap fans to have accurate noise measurements. Almost every consumer fan lies or has an unfavorable pitch to the noise. Don't say its loud until you've bought and tried one. |
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Are you kidding me? Delta AFB1212. There is no reason to not use industrial fans, no cheap Chinese shit.
Well in that case, why AFB? Why not the TSB or PFB series? lol Such powerful fans need their own boards with separate power circuitry so that they don't insert all kinds of inductive shit into the ground and power planes of the main board electronics. Powerful? I don't think you realize AFB1212 comes in many different speeds. http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/AFB/AFB120x120x38mm.pdfThe slowest is 2000 rpm, 32dbA, 71cfm and uses 1.68 watts. As for the other series, they're just as high quality, I just prefer AFBs. |
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FAN spec looks good but I looked up the nearest distributor and no listing of the 12cm model that I could so it sort of suggests that it's very new and maybe not quite available yet.
We are committed anyway in a large way to the Arctic F12. It's pretty quiet and more to the point available in large numbers to us in a short leadtime. When you start looking at the quantities we are buying many of them have to take the boat from china and that's usually 6 weeks min delivery.
If people want they have the option to change the fan themselves it will be simple enough to do that.
My recommendation is stay with the Arctic F12. My experience regarding the Silenx fan vs. the Arctic F12 fan is the following. If you compare the datasheets the fan from Silenx looks in most things better than the Arctic (or others), especially the sound level and air flow. I've compared the Silenx fans with fans from other vendors including Arctic and I would say that the specified data from Silenx is not correct. The Silenx fan is good, but the '15db'-Version is comparable to the Arctic F12. The real air-flow is not so good like from the ARCTIC F12 and the sound level is only slightly better. According the datasheet the air-flow and sound level should be much better. I've done Silenx orders from two different supplies to decrease the risk of just having a copy or broken fan. Are you kidding me? Delta AFB1212. There is no reason to not use industrial fans, no cheap Chinese shit. |
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hence they pre-announce their ASIC
Keep in mind that BFL has already lied once about whether or not their product was a custom ASIC, and they got caught. Then they simply deleted the ASIC claim from their FAQ. I really dislike being drawn into these discussions but in this case it's necessary to correct you. BF Labs has never gone on record claiming it's previous generation processors are pure ASIC. Never. Forum members simply came to their own conclusions based on our FAQ (which did not say it was pure ASIC, just left it ambiguous). Others read erroneous forum posts as fact and then repeated them as the lore of the day. Now you're doing the same in hopes of undermining our reputation as you release your product. There's no mystery here as to what's going on and I'm not so naive to think this post will stop it. Carry on. Ima puttin my mod hat on here. Don't feed the trolls, even if the troll is your competitor and you're both making lots of money. Just don't do it. |
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I think it would probably be better for miners if the high-end mining gear is limited to FPGAs, since the cost of the chips are kept high.
When I purchased my BFL Singles, I thought ASICs would still be several years away. I guess I was wrong. If I knew at the time ASICs were less than a year away, I might not have bought the FPGAs.
But I guess you can't put the genie back in the bottle. I'll likely be in for some ASICs, so I can be part of the game, but the risk involved just increased--a lot. And the total dollar amount I'm willing to invest in mining gear just decreased accordingly.
Regardless of the cost of ASIC mining equipment, I think the pool of miners is still going to be largely limited to bitcoin nerds and geeks, so with the customer base limited, a lot of sales will need to be repeat business. It's in BFL's best interest to balance things out in such a way as to not alienate their customers. Key word being balance.
What ASIC does is that it will increase the average processing power of the miners in the network. In CPU mining era, average processing power of an average miner would've been for example 40MH/s. Those who invested more, could've gone as high as 200MH/s with several motherboards and CPUs (or as high as their investment allowed them). This relativity was maintained when network switched to GPU. Today average processing power of an average miner could be 1GH/s, and miners who invested more could be at 5-8 GH/s (average well-funded miner). The same will happen when ASICs hit the market... Regards, BF Labs Inc. Does the ASIC announcement officially include ASIC-powered Single 2.0 units? |
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You're being way too sensitive.
Not true. I read this forum with a bucket full of popcorn. The oooooonly way to fly. You must buy a lot of popcorn... I wonder if I should trade DMC shares for popcorn. Might be more cost effective. |
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You're being way too sensitive.
Not true. I read this forum with a bucket full of popcorn. The oooooonly way to fly. |
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I think the hardware subforum should get a new rule. I am going to ask all the manufacturers to make official product threads, I am going to sticky those threads, and then we, collectively, are going to feel sorry for anyone dumb enough to troll in said official product threads.
What does everyone think?
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Angry neighborhood bastard mod, author of DiabloMiner, founder of Diablo Mining Company, and all around Demigod of the Bitcoin community here.
Hows this: BFL sends me the smallest ASIC product they make, I receive it, and then I will everyone that not only does it exist, but it works. This should end all the trolling, and if it doesn't I will happily start modding this forum until the shit ceases.
This should solve all the problems.
Nice try. lol I'm quite serious. I'm tired of people attacking BFL for no reason, and I will just start discussing long term depopulation plans with Theymos if this continues. Its completely up to the trolls inhabiting this thread on what happens next. BFL sending me a unit for inspection and testing would prove it exists and works and isn't vaporware. |
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Angry neighborhood bastard mod, author of DiabloMiner, founder of Diablo Mining Company, and all around Demigod of the Bitcoin community here.
Hows this: BFL sends me the smallest ASIC product they make, I receive it, and then I will everyone that not only does it exist, but it works. This should end all the trolling, and if it doesn't I will happily start modding this forum until the shit ceases.
This should solve all the problems.
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will be fun times when you decide to cash out of these swaps ))
I won't be doing that overnight, obviously, and it may be quite some time before I decide to do that. |
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