Works in Chrome now. Not in FF, but ah well

Ah okay, tbh, doesn't really matter.

In the end provably fair is about ensuring that the player can verify that he has not been cheated. In your implementation you could pretend to be the opponent and you could simply generate a higher result for yourself. There is no way for the player to verify this and therefor it is not provably fair.

I am not accusing you of this, but like I said, it simply is not provably fair right now. Therefor I recommend you use the implementation as I suggested in my previous post.

What is "dice1" and "dice2"? I assume your and your opponent's result, right? So:

1) How is it possible that you show the hash already before I join a game? My opponent's result cannot be known yet?
2) How is it possible that: "Each player will have a unique hash" if it's player vs player where both players would have the same result/rolls?




Besides this, it's still not provably fair.. it's very easy for you to just generate hashes that ensure that the opponent (which could be a "site-player") has a higher roll result. Just because you "hash" things, doesn't make it provably fair.

A proper P2P provably fair implementation should work like this:
1) Both players join a game (player 1 is who started game, player 2 who accepted game).
2) Both players send a hashed version of their clientseed that was generated randomly in their browser with a cryptographically secure RNG.
3) After receiving the opponent's hashed clientseed (and showing it to the player - ideally with some seconds to copy it), they send their clientseed but now unhashed.
4) Site can already calculate result based on that.. for example use some HMAC function to generate a hash based on both clientseeds (player 1 is key, player 2 is message) and loop 2 dice results out of that (first roll is player 1, second is player 2.) A bit like regular dice games.
5) Send result + unhashed clientseeds to both players. They now know the result and can calculate the results themselves (and should be done automatically in browser too.)

This way, you - as site owner - cannot "pretend" to be a player and cheat. Therefor it is actually provably fair.




PS, I absolutely do not accuse you of cheating.. just to be clear But if you have a provably fair implementation, it should be really provably fair. GL.

Only this:

As you can see, the chat socket works fine.

So the 2 players that play against each other have a different roll? How is the roll calculated? Do you have a provably fair info page so it's easy to figure this out?

Either way I am sure it's not actually provably fair, but I first want to understand how you guys calculate the result

Strange, cannot connect to Parabolic socket, disconnects right away (Opcode -1.) Chrome/Firefox/Guest/User all doesn't matter.. as if my IP is banned or something

AFAIK they are simply "not very active". This is general an indication for me personally to stop using them because problems (like the one you have now) might take longer. That being said, you are correct that they should still have a good reputation so I hope/expect that your problem will be solved.

No, "the players" are just bitcoin transactions. So everyone would have the same list of players in the same order (for example: confirmed transactions between block x and x - ordered alphabetically by transaction hash.) Then the result will be based on that block hash of that specific future block x. This way everyone can run a (simple) script to verify the results and be sure that the winner is selected fairly.

Your opening statement says otherwise:
If the game is provably fair, you don't have to wonder if the results are "legit" and you don't have to trust the site owner (for the bet/lottery result), because everyone can calculate it themselves This is way superior than just "trusting you to pick a random winner".

I think if you google a bit on PevPot or "dabs lotto" you might find some previous provably fair lotteries (that stopped already) for their exact calculation methods.





And like hilariousandco says, unfortunately there are just too many scammers here - even for tiny amounts. It's not a personal attack to you just really how anonymous internet works. Not interested in meeting up in Amsterdam lol.





The "bitcoin casinos" that mostly have traditional non-provably fair games and sketchy licenses with unclear house edges that unfortunately do score high in Google - are indeed bad. But there are plenty of good bitcoin gambling sites around, mostly dice sites and some sites like bustabit. These sites actually have a better payout than your lottery (mostly only 0.3 - 1% house edge) and are provably fair too. Most of the bitcointalk audience seem to prefer these sites over those "sketchy bitcoin casinos" afaik.

Actually not. For starters random() is not a cryptographically secure random number generator. But more importantly, it's not provably fair. Eg: we cannot see that you didn't just selected a specific winner (for example: yourself!) A provably fair way of doing a lottery is to use a future defined bitcoin block hash (so at block number x) to generate the outcome (and publish the list of entries before that... in this case that's already in the blockchain from the "deposits".) This way we know for a fact that the result is random, not cherry-picked by you and we can verify the outcome.




Besides that, truthfully, even if you fix your "result calculation".. still no one should play your lottery IMO. You are a complete newbie here, creating an account is literally free and just running with the funds is too easy. Nothing personal. And this thread should be in "Games and rounds" as it's a forum-based game. GL though

Without depositing or playing, it says:

"Your next roll hash: 1eeaac1b05a5.."

Can you tell me how that is possible? If it is player vs player, I would imagine the other player would also see some kind of roll hash.. but I guess a different one? (since I didn't even select any amount.) Basically I am looking for information about your provably fair implementation.

Normally P2P provably fair would work with hashed client seeds, where both first send their hashed client seeds and bets, then the unhashed client seeds to calculate the winner. AFAIK no serverseed is needed (nor possible with P2P.)

Pretty sure OP is heavily invested in those sites and doesn't want to his share to be diluted Seriously though..

I actually corrected that smart dude multiple times specifically on his bad math skills. But I guess that is pretty irrelevant.

Overall I would say: "investing" in bitcoin casinos is indeed extremely risky and I wouldn't specifically recommend it to anyone. Especially if you are stupid naive(?) enough to put your money in 9 random casinos, you are indeed likely to lose money. The key is to actually be active in the community and somehow try to figure out which sites and owners are reputable. Reading a TOS is personally irrelevant for me, that's just some bullshit text on a site. The way the owner actually acts, deals with site issues, promotes his site, how long the site has been online, etc etc is more relevant for me. And still I would limit certain amounts on certain sites based on my personal risk calculation.

But I wouldn't try to convince you to "invest" in these sites.. I rather keep my share bigger in those sites and earn money myself (to be clear: I definitely made very decent money with putting money in casino's BR since 2013 - starting on JD and BK)

Fully agree. It is a bit confusing Yolodice calls it "enable one-time password" though. Should just be "enable 2FA" imo.

1139 + 1158 = 2297 bets

If you bet on 2x odds, it's 49.5% chance to win:

2297 * 0.495 = 1137 bets expected to win

So your "luck":

1139 / 1137 * 100% = 100.175901495 %

So you won more than expected based on house edge (= positive luck stat), but didn't have enough luck to get a positive edge yourself (= still more losses than wins.)

Auto-betting on practically all sites, including Bitsler, works on clientside. I just checked the JS files and the "next bet" is really just executed from the browser. So if you don't have power/internet anymore, 0 bets will be made.

cheezcarls probably already lost his balance before the power interruption :X (perhaps had it open in different tab etc?) "My bets" might show history with time?

Lol, you are the one that is fake. Wannabee "hacker" without skills xD I can definitely confirm Bitsler pays security researchers generous bounties.

Just-Dice.com (JD) - technically they are online with CLAMs but they were the biggest BTC casino ever in terms of wagered.



I still have some stats here, most wagered in 1 day was 1,553,357 BTC. Imagine Bustabit, one of the most popular games these days, has almost 900,000 BTC wagered lifetime. So in 1 day, JD had 1.7x more wagered than Bustabit in lifetime. Of course BTC price was bit lower that time and that day's wagered was mostly from 1 huge whale. But still pretty obvious that wagered was huge on JD. This was probably also the biggest BTC bet ever (was at $137/BTC so total of $961k):

If their site doesn't mention "provably fair", it's safe to assume they are not provably fair

You are indeed wrong. Rollin is provably fair.




The serverseed hash that you get before you bet, is the hash of both the server and random seed:


So they cannot change the random_seed during your bet (technically they can change it, but the hash would change so you would notice it = provably fair)

edit: additionally random_seed is not used for bet result:


'random_seed' is simply an extra string for the hash.. probably because they are afraid someone might brute-force server_seed (which isn't possible with that length - but okay.)

I also made a verifier for them: https://dicesites.com/rollin/verifier




Note that I still prefer the nonce-method, because ideally on Rollin you will copy-paste the serverseed hash and clientseed every time before you bet, while with the nonce-method you only have to do it once before your session.

Lol. I will choose scissor!



Unless that sha256 collision is real, mm.



edit: to be clear, it was obv just a one-time game with specifically Furwin and RHavar's choice was already fixed with that hash (=paper - hence my choice for scissor :p)

So you are making 1 transaction for every bet? Obviously the ten thousands of nodes cannot keep storing and processing all transactions PLUS all the casino bets in the world.

Just make a deposit to sites like https://nitrogensports.eu, make hundreds/thousands of bets and withdraw once a month. Needs only 2 transactions a month like that. No need to make 50 transactions a day lol.