That is simply the intentional "game rule" on the whole WPN and not some software bug. I think it's more like live poker where you also can muck if you are not first to show.

Still I also prefer the way PokerStars etc do it (just write to HH.) But can't expect a change from Betcoin since it's bigger than just their software and would require a change from the much bigger network (and I am sure they had huge discussions/complaints already about that, like here on 2p2)

Lol, sounds very sketchy. Maybe you can tell a bit more about those services you need?

Since people seem confused about the investments I will give my view on it. Just because I like transparency and want people to understand it.

Normally we calculate the max_profit like this on sites where we know the house_edge, kelly and bankroll:

max_profit = house_edge * kelly * bankroll



We can use the same for MP and change max_profit to bet_size, then calculate the house_edge for the investors instead:

house_edge = bet_size / (kelly * bankroll)

(kelly is always 1, bankroll is atm BTC304 and bet_size is whatever the player bets)

For a BTC2.5 bet: 2.5/(1*304) = 0.00822368421 (= 0.82% HE)
For a BTC1.1 bet: 1.1/(1*304) = 0.00361842105 (= 0.36% HE)
For a BTC0.3 bet: 0.3/(1*304) = 0.0009868421 (= 0.0986% HE)
For a BTC0.05 bet: 0.05/(1*304) = 0.00016447368 (= 0.0164% HE)
For a BTC0.001 bet: 0.001/(1*304) = 0.00000328947 (= 0.00032894736% HE)



Now the HE for the app+MP is simply "the rest" (app gets 50% and MP gets 50% of "the rest".) This depends on how much house edge the site gives to the players and is pretty simply:

commission=site_house_edge - investor_house_edge
app_profit = commission / 2 (same for MP_profit - the commission is equally divided by app + MP)


0.1% HE site
The first 2 bets are simply too big for 0.1% HE sites. The third bet is just small enough, the commission and app_profit will be:
For a BTC0.3 bet: 0.1 - 0.0986 = 0.0014% HE and 0.0007% each
For a BTC0.05 bet: 0.1 - 0.0164 = 0.0836% HE and 0.0418% each
For a BTC0.001 bet: 0.1 - 0.00032894736 = 0.09967105264% HE and 0.04983552632% each (pretty close to 50% of the house edge heh )


1% HE site
For a BTC2.5 bet: 1 - 0.82 = 0.18% HE and 0.09% each
For a BTC1.1 bet: 1 - 0.36 = 0.64% HE and 0.32% each
For a BTC0.3 bet: 1 - 0.0986 = 0.90% HE and 0.45% each (already getting close to 50% of HE each )
For a BTC0.05 bet: 1 - 0.0164 = 0.98% HE and 0.48% each
For a BTC0.001 bet: 1 - 0.00032894736 = 0.999% HE and 0.499% each



A few random notes:
- The "commission"/HE that app+MP earn are guaranteed, so risk-free. The investor's HE not.
- One could say most wagered and profits come from bigger players, so profits can look better for investors than you might expect.
- The investor is always EV+ based on 1x kelly.
- Obviously we can assume the "commission" on average is more than on other invest-sites (even though it depends on bet-size.) However to calculate how much profit the investors can expect, you always still have to consider the bankroll too. At MP you will get a pretty big share of the BR/action - so even with the relative high commission there is a very decent chance you could still earn more than other sites if the wagered amounts are the same. I am planning to make good estimations of this based of the info on the MP site and list them real-time on my site. But this is a slightly complicated calculation.
- If I made a mistake or if my whole explanation is wrong, please correct me

Actually I think most will suprised how little house edge the investors get on "smaller" bets of like below 0.1 btc (and obv the app+MP relatively much.) On small bets the app gets pretty close to half the edge actually.

On the other hand, on max profit bets the app+MP gets nothing.

With the data on my site I would also estimate the monthly return between 2-8% on average. I agree with Coef that it is a very high return and personally I have gained a very decent amount of money by investing in casinos.

However, remember, choosing the casino to invest in is not only about the potential/estimated profit, but also about trusting the site. For example dice.ninja stole ~2k BTC from the investors. Newer site Cryptocoins-dice.com stole 150 BTC. Ice-Dice.com also stole investor funds (I am not sure how much.) And there are many other sites that scammed their investors. Potentially they might not even steal all your funds directly, but just pretend to be winning players and steal from you completely unnoticed.

Investing in casinos can be rewarding but it is definitely not without risks.

Thanks. Actually I wrote a script for betting, so yeh :p

Thanks for the event/reward ! Was almost losing hope, thinking I wouldn't hit, but gladly I did

Also got to test the site pretty well and works good

Took ~23,500 bets and almost 10 hours of betting, but finally I hit

I meant it as an advantage actually. I think the current way is the only way, delaying bets/connection or giving partial information through sockets or whatever would be worse IMO. Also the result would still be on MP instant. Either way I think the current way is the normal way, just sharing the tip for people who bet a lot to F5 when it gets slow

Got 12,000+ plinko bets so far in 5.5h, down BTC0.115. Should hit high multiplier once every ~29,500 bets - so hope I will still be lucky hehe Till what time is the promo/event? (Aug 8 what timezone?)

Yeh, the animation should be faster, especially with a lot of pins.

However, as soon as you click "Let it Drop", you already made the bet. So if it's too slow with too many bets, you can just refresh the browser (F5) and you can start betting again The results will be in "My bets" (of the bets that were still in the animation.)

Thanks, had a few x115s too, so currently still up 0.05 :>

Yeh, it's ATM pretty huge EV+ to bet, so definitely the best time to try

Giving the plinko promo a try

Did have a decent x496.9247 already https://www.moneypot.com/bets/61801575

For players who are playing with bits and get used to it, I can definitely see how it works good for them (instead of messing around with decimals.)

For bigger amounts "5,637,173,898.30 bits" is obv not so clear as "5,637 BTC" Making it bold seems nice solution though, although I am not sure if the 0000 solution might be confusing for some (but imo sounds clever solution too.) Another option would be to have tooltips on all amounts with the BTC amount?

I am wondering if there are other people like me who, uhm, don't like "bits" .. at all Option for "show as BTC" would be cool. Then again, I am currently not an active player nor investor, so no need to change it for me. Just curious if others share that opinion

You can increase your odds by 10% by using the exact same settings as Bjorn:

p=31,o=0,s=1,o=n
72,914*2/4,294,967,296*100 = 0.00339532271%

p=15,o=0,s=1,o=l/r
131,072/4,294,967,296*100 = 0.00305175781%

Not sure how Coef got 0.0061% but seems he doubled it, however with orientation to 1 side, you cannot double the odds. Correct me if wrong and stuff.

1. Buy for $23: http://gettoknowbitcoin.com/shop/hat/swc-poker-flexfit-hat/
2. Win one by being top 5 krill earner in that week: https://swcpoker.eu/krill-leaderboard/

Correct, thanks. Changed BD btctalk link. JD weekly fixed and should not have any problems any more now hehe

It's mostly about wagered amount (=popularity) and site age. However since BB uses MoneyPot and the funds/RNG/etc are on MP (so the player mostly has to trust MP), the site age is less relevant to me. BB has almost 4k wagered in 2 months, which is pretty good for a new site.

I replied to your comment also in the DiceSites thread, so if you have specific questions about other sites, pls reply there

The verifier works already, only you need to copy the data (seeds, salt and secret) yourself. It's up to BB if they want to link to my verifier :p

Yeh, that is correct. Will add "multiple address support" in the future


Updates:
- Added BetterBets.io and a BetterBets provably fair verifier
- Removed Win88 since that site is basically dead
- Removed BitDice RDD since they don't support that altcoin anymore
- Removed PeerBet HUC & XPM since they don't support those altcoins anymore




It's mostly about wagered amount (=popularity) and site age. However since BB uses MoneyPot and the funds/RNG/etc are on MP (so the player mostly has to trust MP), the site age is less relevant to me. BB has almost 4k wagered in 2 months, which is pretty good for a new site.

To have a quick overview of other sites not listed (in no specific order):

- crypto-games, ~1.2k total - not enough, but will consider in the future.
- mydice, ~1k total - not enough, but will consider in the future.
- DustDice, 459 total - not enough, but will consider in the future.
- DirectDice, no stats at all.
- fortunejack, seems not very transparant, I would like to see stats per currency and ideally per game too. They used to have per currency, but not anymore. I could make a verifier for it though.
- DaDice, I consider them very untrustworthy because of the way they refused to show proof of solvency therefor I will not promote them to others.
- Coinichiwa, 4k wagered so I will still consider them, but seems activity has slowed down last few months.
- coinroll, it seems to me they don't have much activity these days, but I will monitor them a bit to see if that's actually true.
- diggit.io/bustabit/LuckyBit, I expect to add non-dice sites in the future but hidden by default (filter)
- Rollin, I actually expect to add this site soon.
- I think that is most of the sites that at least have some activity? Always open to suggestions