Basically there are 2 types of cloud mining sites:

1. Sites where you seem to be able to get profits, however they are actually not mining and just running a ponzi scam.
2. Sites where they do really mine, however you will (most likely) not be able to get profits with the increasing difficulty.

Conclusion: pretty risky "investment".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.0 seems decent basic information too.

I made an article/page that should make it easy for anyone to learn the basics of the provably fair mechanism:


Read more at http://dicesites.com/provably-fair

Ah you are correct. Although that link is very small lol, I would probably display it slightly different. Anyway, seems technically okay then, although I didn't actually calculate the results and didn't check the details (just had quick look only.) But yeh, nice job improving it already.

It seems like the idea is good now. But unfortunately there is still a mistake and the site is still not provably fair

When a player changes the clientseed, you give a new serverseed. This means you could calculate bad results based on these seeds. The idea of a clientseed is that there is a variable in the calculation which the site doesn't know in advance and therefor cannot predict the results in advance. 2 options:

1.  When someone sets the clientseed, you should keep the same hash (and don't reset the nonce or else player can cheat.) And then there should be a separate button to "request new serverseed" that also resets the nonce.

2. OR show the "next serverseed hash" already when setting the new clientseed (that is actually what PD does.)




Truthfully I didn't fully test the provably fair method but this is what I saw already.

So, he claiming $24,000 (100+ btc) "investments" in a few days just from Bitcointalk signatures? Lol.


(Although I know people who had a lot of coins in PBMining too, guess some are naive, but 24k in few days seems bit ambitious.)

My math is very right and obviously at 100% compounding. My point was not from an investors perspective but from a company that supposed to have a "daily 5% profit magic formula".

If you can make 5% profit, you will have after x days:

Day 1: 100*1.05 = $105
Day 2: 105*1.05 = $110.25
Day 3: 110.25*1.05 = $115.76
Day 4: 115.76*1.05 = $121.55
Day 5: 121.55*1.05 = $127.63
Day 6: 127.63*1.05 = $134.01
Day 7: 134.01*1.05 = $140.71
Day 8: 140.71*1.05 = $147.75
Day 9: 147.75*1.05 = $155.13
Day 10: 155.13*1.05 = $162.89
Day 11: 162.89*1.05 = $171.03
Day 12: 171.03*1.05 = $179.59
Day 13: 179.59*1.05 = $188.56
Day 14: 188.56*1.05 = $197.99
Day 15: 197.99*1.05 = $207.89
Day 16: 207.89*1.05 = $218.29
Day 17: 218.29*1.05 = $229.2
Day 18: 229.2*1.05 = $240.66
Day 19: 240.66*1.05 = $252.7
Day 20: 252.7*1.05 = $265.33
Day 21: 265.33*1.05 = $278.6
Day 22: 278.6*1.05 = $292.53
Day 23: 292.53*1.05 = $307.15
Day 24: 307.15*1.05 = $322.51
Day 25: 322.51*1.05 = $338.64
Day 26: 338.64*1.05 = $355.57
Day 27: 355.57*1.05 = $373.35
Day 28: 373.35*1.05 = $392.01
Day 29: 392.01*1.05 = $411.61
Day 30: 411.61*1.05 = $432.19
Day 31: 432.19*1.05 = $453.8
Day 32: 453.8*1.05 = $476.49
Day 33: 476.49*1.05 = $500.32
Day 34: 500.32*1.05 = $525.33
Day 35: 525.33*1.05 = $551.6
Day 36: 551.6*1.05 = $579.18
Day 37: 579.18*1.05 = $608.14
Day 38: 608.14*1.05 = $638.55
Day 39: 638.55*1.05 = $670.48
Day 40: 670.48*1.05 = $704
Day 41: 704*1.05 = $739.2
Day 42: 739.2*1.05 = $776.16
Day 43: 776.16*1.05 = $814.97
Day 44: 814.97*1.05 = $855.72
Day 45: 855.72*1.05 = $898.5
Day 46: 898.5*1.05 = $943.43
Day 47: 943.43*1.05 = $990.6
Day 48: 990.6*1.05 = $1040.13
Day 49: 1040.13*1.05 = $1092.13
Day 50: 1092.13*1.05 = $1146.74
Day 51: 1146.74*1.05 = $1204.08
Day 52: 1204.08*1.05 = $1264.28
Day 53: 1264.28*1.05 = $1327.49
Day 54: 1327.49*1.05 = $1393.87
Day 55: 1393.87*1.05 = $1463.56
Day 56: 1463.56*1.05 = $1536.74
Day 57: 1536.74*1.05 = $1613.58
Day 58: 1613.58*1.05 = $1694.26
Day 59: 1694.26*1.05 = $1778.97
Day 60: 1778.97*1.05 = $1867.92
Day 61: 1867.92*1.05 = $1961.31
Day 62: 1961.31*1.05 = $2059.38
Day 63: 2059.38*1.05 = $2162.35
Day 64: 2162.35*1.05 = $2270.47
Day 65: 2270.47*1.05 = $2383.99
Day 66: 2383.99*1.05 = $2503.19
Day 67: 2503.19*1.05 = $2628.35
Day 68: 2628.35*1.05 = $2759.77
Day 69: 2759.77*1.05 = $2897.75
Day 70: 2897.75*1.05 = $3042.64
Day 71: 3042.64*1.05 = $3194.77
Day 72: 3194.77*1.05 = $3354.51
Day 73: 3354.51*1.05 = $3522.24
Day 74: 3522.24*1.05 = $3698.35
Day 75: 3698.35*1.05 = $3883.27
Day 76: 3883.27*1.05 = $4077.43
Day 77: 4077.43*1.05 = $4281.3
Day 78: 4281.3*1.05 = $4495.37
Day 79: 4495.37*1.05 = $4720.14
Day 80: 4720.14*1.05 = $4956.14
Day 81: 4956.14*1.05 = $5203.95
Day 82: 5203.95*1.05 = $5464.15
Day 83: 5464.15*1.05 = $5737.36
Day 84: 5737.36*1.05 = $6024.22
Day 85: 6024.22*1.05 = $6325.44
Day 86: 6325.44*1.05 = $6641.71
Day 87: 6641.71*1.05 = $6973.79
Day 88: 6973.79*1.05 = $7322.48
Day 89: 7322.48*1.05 = $7688.61
Day 90: 7688.61*1.05 = $8073.04
Day 91: 8073.04*1.05 = $8476.69
Day 92: 8476.69*1.05 = $8900.52
Day 93: 8900.52*1.05 = $9345.55
Day 94: 9345.55*1.05 = $9812.83
Day 95: 9812.83*1.05 = $10303.47
Day 96: 10303.47*1.05 = $10818.64
Day 97: 10818.64*1.05 = $11359.57
Day 98: 11359.57*1.05 = $11927.55
Day 99: 11927.55*1.05 = $12523.93
Day 100: 12523.93*1.05 = $13150.13
Day 101: 13150.13*1.05 = $13807.63
Day 102: 13807.63*1.05 = $14498.01
Day 103: 14498.01*1.05 = $15222.91
Day 104: 15222.91*1.05 = $15984.06
Day 105: 15984.06*1.05 = $16783.26
Day 106: 16783.26*1.05 = $17622.43
Day 107: 17622.43*1.05 = $18503.55
Day 108: 18503.55*1.05 = $19428.72
Day 109: 19428.72*1.05 = $20400.16
Day 110: 20400.16*1.05 = $21420.17
Day 111: 21420.17*1.05 = $22491.18
Day 112: 22491.18*1.05 = $23615.74
Day 113: 23615.74*1.05 = $24796.52
Day 114: 24796.52*1.05 = $26036.35
Day 115: 26036.35*1.05 = $27338.17
Day 116: 27338.17*1.05 = $28705.08
Day 117: 28705.08*1.05 = $30140.33
Day 118: 30140.33*1.05 = $31647.35
Day 119: 31647.35*1.05 = $33229.71
Day 120: 33229.71*1.05 = $34891.2
Day 121: 34891.2*1.05 = $36635.76
Day 122: 36635.76*1.05 = $38467.55
Day 123: 38467.55*1.05 = $40390.92
Day 124: 40390.92*1.05 = $42410.47
Day 125: 42410.47*1.05 = $44530.99
Day 126: 44530.99*1.05 = $46757.54
Day 127: 46757.54*1.05 = $49095.42
Day 128: 49095.42*1.05 = $51550.19
Day 129: 51550.19*1.05 = $54127.7
Day 130: 54127.7*1.05 = $56834.09
Day 131: 56834.09*1.05 = $59675.79
Day 132: 59675.79*1.05 = $62659.58
Day 133: 62659.58*1.05 = $65792.56
Day 134: 65792.56*1.05 = $69082.19
Day 135: 69082.19*1.05 = $72536.3
Day 136: 72536.3*1.05 = $76163.11
Day 137: 76163.11*1.05 = $79971.27
Day 138: 79971.27*1.05 = $83969.83
Day 139: 83969.83*1.05 = $88168.32
Day 140: 88168.32*1.05 = $92576.74
Day 141: 92576.74*1.05 = $97205.57
Day 142: 97205.57*1.05 = $102065.85
Day 143: 102065.85*1.05 = $107169.15
Day 144: 107169.15*1.05 = $112527.6
Day 145: 112527.6*1.05 = $118153.98
Day 146: 118153.98*1.05 = $124061.68
Day 147: 124061.68*1.05 = $130264.77
Day 148: 130264.77*1.05 = $136778
Day 149: 136778*1.05 = $143616.9
Day 150: 143616.9*1.05 = $150797.75
Day 151: 150797.75*1.05 = $158337.64
Day 152: 158337.64*1.05 = $166254.52
Day 153: 166254.52*1.05 = $174567.24
Day 154: 174567.24*1.05 = $183295.61
Day 155: 183295.61*1.05 = $192460.39
Day 156: 192460.39*1.05 = $202083.41
Day 157: 202083.41*1.05 = $212187.58
Day 158: 212187.58*1.05 = $222796.96
Day 159: 222796.96*1.05 = $233936.8
Day 160: 233936.8*1.05 = $245633.64
Day 161: 245633.64*1.05 = $257915.33
Day 162: 257915.33*1.05 = $270811.09
Day 163: 270811.09*1.05 = $284351.65
Day 164: 284351.65*1.05 = $298569.23
Day 165: 298569.23*1.05 = $313497.69
Day 166: 313497.69*1.05 = $329172.58
Day 167: 329172.58*1.05 = $345631.2
Day 168: 345631.2*1.05 = $362912.76
Day 169: 362912.76*1.05 = $381058.4
Day 170: 381058.4*1.05 = $400111.32
Day 171: 400111.32*1.05 = $420116.89
Day 172: 420116.89*1.05 = $441122.73
Day 173: 441122.73*1.05 = $463178.87
Day 174: 463178.87*1.05 = $486337.81
Day 175: 486337.81*1.05 = $510654.7
Day 176: 510654.7*1.05 = $536187.44
Day 177: 536187.44*1.05 = $562996.81
Day 178: 562996.81*1.05 = $591146.65
Day 179: 591146.65*1.05 = $620703.98
Day 180: 620703.98*1.05 = $651739.18
Day 181: 651739.18*1.05 = $684326.14
Day 182: 684326.14*1.05 = $718542.45
Day 183: 718542.45*1.05 = $754469.57
Day 184: 754469.57*1.05 = $792193.05
Day 185: 792193.05*1.05 = $831802.7
Day 186: 831802.7*1.05 = $873392.84
Day 187: 873392.84*1.05 = $917062.48
Day 188: 917062.48*1.05 = $962915.61
Day 189: 962915.61*1.05 = $1011061.39
Day 190: 1011061.39*1.05 = $1061614.46
Day 191: 1061614.46*1.05 = $1114695.18
Day 192: 1114695.18*1.05 = $1170429.94
Day 193: 1170429.94*1.05 = $1228951.43
Day 194: 1228951.43*1.05 = $1290399.01
Day 195: 1290399.01*1.05 = $1354918.96
Day 196: 1354918.96*1.05 = $1422664.9
Day 197: 1422664.9*1.05 = $1493798.15
Day 198: 1493798.15*1.05 = $1568488.06
Day 199: 1568488.06*1.05 = $1646912.46
Day 200: 1646912.46*1.05 = $1729258.08
Day 201: 1729258.08*1.05 = $1815720.99
Day 202: 1815720.99*1.05 = $1906507.03
Day 203: 1906507.03*1.05 = $2001832.39
Day 204: 2001832.39*1.05 = $2101924.01
Day 205: 2101924.01*1.05 = $2207020.21
Day 206: 2207020.21*1.05 = $2317371.22
Day 207: 2317371.22*1.05 = $2433239.78
Day 208: 2433239.78*1.05 = $2554901.77
Day 209: 2554901.77*1.05 = $2682646.85
Day 210: 2682646.85*1.05 = $2816779.2
Day 211: 2816779.2*1.05 = $2957618.16
Day 212: 2957618.16*1.05 = $3105499.07
Day 213: 3105499.07*1.05 = $3260774.02
Day 214: 3260774.02*1.05 = $3423812.72
Day 215: 3423812.72*1.05 = $3595003.36
Day 216: 3595003.36*1.05 = $3774753.52
Day 217: 3774753.52*1.05 = $3963491.2
Day 218: 3963491.2*1.05 = $4161665.76
Day 219: 4161665.76*1.05 = $4369749.05
Day 220: 4369749.05*1.05 = $4588236.5
Day 221: 4588236.5*1.05 = $4817648.32
Day 222: 4817648.32*1.05 = $5058530.74
Day 223: 5058530.74*1.05 = $5311457.28
Day 224: 5311457.28*1.05 = $5577030.14
Day 225: 5577030.14*1.05 = $5855881.65
Day 226: 5855881.65*1.05 = $6148675.73
Day 227: 6148675.73*1.05 = $6456109.52
Day 228: 6456109.52*1.05 = $6778914.99
Day 229: 6778914.99*1.05 = $7117860.74
Day 230: 7117860.74*1.05 = $7473753.78
Day 231: 7473753.78*1.05 = $7847441.47
Day 232: 7847441.47*1.05 = $8239813.54
Day 233: 8239813.54*1.05 = $8651804.22
Day 234: 8651804.22*1.05 = $9084394.43
Day 235: 9084394.43*1.05 = $9538614.15
Day 236: 9538614.15*1.05 = $10015544.86
Day 237: 10015544.86*1.05 = $10516322.1
Day 238: 10516322.1*1.05 = $11042138.21
Day 239: 11042138.21*1.05 = $11594245.12
Day 240: 11594245.12*1.05 = $12173957.37
Day 241: 12173957.37*1.05 = $12782655.24
Day 242: 12782655.24*1.05 = $13421788.01
Day 243: 13421788.01*1.05 = $14092877.41
Day 244: 14092877.41*1.05 = $14797521.28
Day 245: 14797521.28*1.05 = $15537397.34
Day 246: 15537397.34*1.05 = $16314267.21
Day 247: 16314267.21*1.05 = $17129980.57
Day 248: 17129980.57*1.05 = $17986479.6
Day 249: 17986479.6*1.05 = $18885803.57
Day 250: 18885803.57*1.05 = $19830093.75
Day 251: 19830093.75*1.05 = $20821598.44
Day 252: 20821598.44*1.05 = $21862678.36
Day 253: 21862678.36*1.05 = $22955812.28
Day 254: 22955812.28*1.05 = $24103602.9
Day 255: 24103602.9*1.05 = $25308783.04
Day 256: 25308783.04*1.05 = $26574222.19
Day 257: 26574222.19*1.05 = $27902933.3
Day 258: 27902933.3*1.05 = $29298079.97
Day 259: 29298079.97*1.05 = $30762983.97
Day 260: 30762983.97*1.05 = $32301133.16
Day 261: 32301133.16*1.05 = $33916189.82
Day 262: 33916189.82*1.05 = $35611999.31
Day 263: 35611999.31*1.05 = $37392599.28
Day 264: 37392599.28*1.05 = $39262229.24
Day 265: 39262229.24*1.05 = $41225340.7
Day 266: 41225340.7*1.05 = $43286607.74
Day 267: 43286607.74*1.05 = $45450938.13
Day 268: 45450938.13*1.05 = $47723485.03
Day 269: 47723485.03*1.05 = $50109659.28
Day 270: 50109659.28*1.05 = $52615142.25
Day 271: 52615142.25*1.05 = $55245899.36
Day 272: 55245899.36*1.05 = $58008194.33
Day 273: 58008194.33*1.05 = $60908604.05
Day 274: 60908604.05*1.05 = $63954034.25
Day 275: 63954034.25*1.05 = $67151735.96
Day 276: 67151735.96*1.05 = $70509322.76
Day 277: 70509322.76*1.05 = $74034788.9
Day 278: 74034788.9*1.05 = $77736528.34
Day 279: 77736528.34*1.05 = $81623354.76
Day 280: 81623354.76*1.05 = $85704522.5
Day 281: 85704522.5*1.05 = $89989748.62
Day 282: 89989748.62*1.05 = $94489236.05
Day 283: 94489236.05*1.05 = $99213697.85
Day 284: 99213697.85*1.05 = $104174382.75
Day 285: 104174382.75*1.05 = $109383101.89
Day 286: 109383101.89*1.05 = $114852256.98
Day 287: 114852256.98*1.05 = $120594869.83
Day 288: 120594869.83*1.05 = $126624613.32
Day 289: 126624613.32*1.05 = $132955843.99
Day 290: 132955843.99*1.05 = $139603636.18
Day 291: 139603636.18*1.05 = $146583817.99
Day 292: 146583817.99*1.05 = $153913008.89
Day 293: 153913008.89*1.05 = $161608659.34
Day 294: 161608659.34*1.05 = $169689092.31
Day 295: 169689092.31*1.05 = $178173546.92
Day 296: 178173546.92*1.05 = $187082224.27
Day 297: 187082224.27*1.05 = $196436335.48
Day 298: 196436335.48*1.05 = $206258152.25
Day 299: 206258152.25*1.05 = $216571059.87
Day 300: 216571059.87*1.05 = $227399612.86
Day 301: 227399612.86*1.05 = $238769593.5
Day 302: 238769593.5*1.05 = $250708073.18
Day 303: 250708073.18*1.05 = $263243476.84
Day 304: 263243476.84*1.05 = $276405650.68
Day 305: 276405650.68*1.05 = $290225933.21
Day 306: 290225933.21*1.05 = $304737229.87
Day 307: 304737229.87*1.05 = $319974091.37
Day 308: 319974091.37*1.05 = $335972795.94
Day 309: 335972795.94*1.05 = $352771435.73
Day 310: 352771435.73*1.05 = $370410007.52
Day 311: 370410007.52*1.05 = $388930507.9
Day 312: 388930507.9*1.05 = $408377033.29
Day 313: 408377033.29*1.05 = $428795884.95
Day 314: 428795884.95*1.05 = $450235679.2
Day 315: 450235679.2*1.05 = $472747463.16
Day 316: 472747463.16*1.05 = $496384836.32
Day 317: 496384836.32*1.05 = $521204078.14
Day 318: 521204078.14*1.05 = $547264282.04
Day 319: 547264282.04*1.05 = $574627496.15
Day 320: 574627496.15*1.05 = $603358870.95
Day 321: 603358870.95*1.05 = $633526814.5
Day 322: 633526814.5*1.05 = $665203155.23
Day 323: 665203155.23*1.05 = $698463312.99
Day 324: 698463312.99*1.05 = $733386478.64
Day 325: 733386478.64*1.05 = $770055802.57
Day 326: 770055802.57*1.05 = $808558592.7
Day 327: 808558592.7*1.05 = $848986522.33
Day 328: 848986522.33*1.05 = $891435848.45
Day 329: 891435848.45*1.05 = $936007640.87
Day 330: 936007640.87*1.05 = $982808022.91
Day 331: 982808022.91*1.05 = $1031948424.06
Day 332: 1031948424.06*1.05 = $1083545845.26
Day 333: 1083545845.26*1.05 = $1137723137.53
Day 334: 1137723137.53*1.05 = $1194609294.4
Day 335: 1194609294.4*1.05 = $1254339759.12
Day 336: 1254339759.12*1.05 = $1317056747.08
Day 337: 1317056747.08*1.05 = $1382909584.43
Day 338: 1382909584.43*1.05 = $1452055063.65
Day 339: 1452055063.65*1.05 = $1524657816.84
Day 340: 1524657816.84*1.05 = $1600890707.68
Day 341: 1600890707.68*1.05 = $1680935243.06
Day 342: 1680935243.06*1.05 = $1764982005.21
Day 343: 1764982005.21*1.05 = $1853231105.48
Day 344: 1853231105.48*1.05 = $1945892660.75
Day 345: 1945892660.75*1.05 = $2043187293.79
Day 346: 2043187293.79*1.05 = $2145346658.48
Day 347: 2145346658.48*1.05 = $2252613991.4
Day 348: 2252613991.4*1.05 = $2365244690.97
Day 349: 2365244690.97*1.05 = $2483506925.52
Day 350: 2483506925.52*1.05 = $2607682271.79
Day 351: 2607682271.79*1.05 = $2738066385.38
Day 352: 2738066385.38*1.05 = $2874969704.65
Day 353: 2874969704.65*1.05 = $3018718189.89
Day 354: 3018718189.89*1.05 = $3169654099.38
Day 355: 3169654099.38*1.05 = $3328136804.35
Day 356: 3328136804.35*1.05 = $3494543644.57
Day 357: 3494543644.57*1.05 = $3669270826.79
Day 358: 3669270826.79*1.05 = $3852734368.13
Day 359: 3852734368.13*1.05 = $4045371086.54
Day 360: 4045371086.54*1.05 = $4247639640.87
Day 361: 4247639640.87*1.05 = $4460021622.91
Day 362: 4460021622.91*1.05 = $4683022704.06
Day 363: 4683022704.06*1.05 = $4917173839.26
Day 364: 4917173839.26*1.05 = $5163032531.22
Day 365: 5163032531.22*1.05 = $5421184157.78



So if you, as the company, start with $100 and keep investing your own profits too. You will have $5,421,184,158 after a year. Please don't tell me that this is not realistic, that is my whole point.

Also their own site has a calculator too https://bitcoin-income.com/?a=cust&page=plans Fill in 100 BTC and 100% compounding at the "Day 180 plan". You will see the return is exactly as the result I got at "Day 180" even with my wrong math. Dude.

Yes. Let's do 10 bets w/o and w/ nonce:

Serverseed per roll without nonce
1. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
2. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.
3. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
4. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.
5. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
6. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.
7. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
8. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.
9. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
10. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.
11. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
12. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.
13. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
14. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.
15. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
16. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.
17. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
18. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.
19. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
20. Verify if hash was really correct and check bet result.

Serverseed with nonce
1. Click to see serverseed hash & copy it, change clientseed, make bet.
2. Make bet.
3. Make bet.
4. Make bet.
5. Make bet.
6. Make bet.
7. Make bet.
8. Make bet.
9. Make bet.
10. Make bet.
11. Get new serverseed hash to reveal old serverseed, verify hash and check bet results.

keepinquiet raised some IMO good points about the provably fair implementation of Pocket Dice. Could you have a look and reply to it  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077905 ? TY

Yes and no. I guess you can have:

- serverseed, clientseed, secret (you have this now?)
- serverseed, clientseed
- serverseed, clientseed, nonce

The first one is bad because people need to wait. The second one is bad because it requires the seeds to be different each roll you make, which makes verifying much more difficult and time consuming - even though it is instant. The third one is the most popular and best way, the same seeds are used over many many rolls until the player decides to reset the serverseed and see the revealed unhashed seed to verify _all_ the previous rolls in 1 time.

A daily secret should be only used in blockchain games - because they cannot have user-specific serverseeds (most don't require any account.) Luckyb.it is a blockchain game. Your site is not a blockchain game. Therefor it should be very easy to just let players reset/reveal the serverseed on their convenience - and not let them wait.

I didn't look much into your provably fair method yet, but basically you should use the "serverseed, clientseed, nonce" method used by all popular dice sites since this is considered the technically most solid implementation and is most easy for the user to verify their results.

edit: had a quick look at Quincunx thing and couldn't change client seed + was serverside made. So yeh this site is not provably fair AT ALL and the site can generate all results of a player. So definitely agree with "keepinquiet" and people shouldn't be playing here at least until the provably fair implementation is fixed. I see you are working on it, so GL.

Just FYI I am planning to do exactly that (rating provably fair implementations in transparent way) for dice sites. I really do hate the average review/overview site too since I know for a fact several sites even charge a fee for a (good) review and all reviews are very subjective anyway. That's also the reason why I started my site since it's completely based on numbers/stats and facts. The only thing I am planning to review is the provably fair implementation of all sites and truthfully I expect to have criticism for all sites, even popular ones (JD/PD and such are close to perfect tho :p but still got some small things :x)



I will probably not look at casino sites though TBH.

Hehe thanks, I guess spotting alt accounts will never be more easy... just follow the neg trusts on my account the following days lol.





But seriously, I was definitely still willing to change my trust in case he would have been just a bit more transparent. The latest "answer" he gave was one of the worst possible replies, basically:

"All our information on our site is wrong because of my staff.. whoops! But it isn't cloudmining even though the whole website says that. Just other things that makes us very profitable. We have really a great business model. Big Investors have invested large sums in the last years but still we are asking for your money."

Sounds great man.

So just got a request, or actually more like a threat, that I must remove the negative trust or else he will request a ban and force other users to give me negative feedback.


I still fully stand behind the following and I also agree with all other questions raised by others in the above posts. The lack of answering these questions or giving some transparency - but instead - threatening me, is very concerning for any potential customer you might have.



My conclusion is still exactly the same with your latest reply in this topic. So good luck with pursuing your threat.

Are you sure? So this isn't the bet ID that increases just with 1? If so do we get a hash of this in advance? TBH the whole implementation seems strange, I would assume PvP just works like this:

- Player 1 makes random seed that is long enough to not be bruteforced (is made by default randomly in browser - not on server.) Sends hash to site (not the actual seed yet!) together with amount, Hi/Lo choice.
- Player 2 does the same.
- Both players see each others hash and have few seconds to note it down.
- Both players send the actual seeds to server (only now!) and result is calculated just based on these seeds together.

This way neither the players or site knows the outcome in advance, even if the site + one of the players collude together (eg house cheating by faking a player.)

Uhm no. You might be confused with the difference in showing fractional numbers with percentage vs decimals.

amount = fraction by using percentage = simple fraction (fraction by using decimals)
$1,000 = 100% = 1/1 (1)
$100 = 10% = 1/10 (0.1)
$10 = 1% = 1/100 (0.01)
$1 = 0.1% = 1/1000 (0.001)
$0.1 = 0.01% = 1/10000 (0.0001)
$0.01 = 0.001% = 1/100000 (0.00001)
$0.001 = 0.0001% = 1/1000000 (0.000001)

As noted the site says: $1 fee for a $1,000 deposit. That is 0.1% not 0.001%. So which one is it? Just a fee on wagered/profit amount would be better IMO.

I don't understand your provably fair method at all. It seems the 4 variables to calculate the roll outcome are known to the player in advance. This would mean the player can generate their own results in advance and therefor cheat.

Yeh, perhaps more like simulate 100,000 players with 1,000 rolls each for each strategy. I meant more like simulate bigger numbers to see if there is something interesting

TBH that sounds pretty bad and useless because of variance.

Better run millions of simulation bets in own script with the several strategies and make some cool analysis based on that.

Correct, nice found again. To be provably fair it should generate the number sets based on both the server- and clientseed^[1]. Actually it will be easier to just generate 2 numbers 1-6. Ideally it will not be "per roll" anyway, but just the "nonce way". There are several problems with "per roll" even in a perfect technical implementation, for example: the player has to write down each seed between each roll and verify per roll (instead of just copying 1 seed for hundreds of rolls.)

Again, I agree that, in theory, currently it is too easy for Pocket Dice to cheat with the current provably fair implementation. The client's seed is not really used to generate the random result. But I can still imagine it is not wrong on purpose - it should be changed though.

Possible better way: Basically any dice site calculates a number between 0-100. And it is very easy for them to generate 2 numbers between 0-100 from 1 "result hash" (they actually do this already if the result is more than 100.) Then just make 0-16.6666=1,16.6666-33.3333=2, ....., 83.3333-100=6. So the "normal" provably fair method with "nonce method", used on all popular dice sites, can definitely be implemented here and that would be much better.

Or just take set of 12 numbers and do the Fisher-Yates shuffle with the sha2 of server+clientseed+nonce (and delimiters in between) as Mersenne Twister seed, I guess.

1. And ideally the client seed is not made with Math.random() like it is now.

First of all, nice found.

The owners account was stolen (doesn't seem like his fault but I didn't read much of it): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=964525.180;topicseen This seems like the new account but no real posts yet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=515105 If he would post a new thread I will check their provably fair system a bit more and leave negative trust if needed. But at this point I cannot imagine people going to their site (and account "yussuf89" seems to be back to previous owner.)

Also no one should trust any of those CoinDice script sites! Their provably fair implementation is the worst anyway and cannot really be called provably fair, even if the server hash works out. See my post and dooglus' post for details. And they have several accusations of having serious vulnerabilities in their script that will get the site hacked - so no trusted site should use this script imo.