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1981  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the Council on Foreign Relations on: January 23, 2014, 04:49:22 PM
Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan Chase and Council on Foreign Relation stated,

Quote from: Jamie Dimon
"They will eventually be made as a payment system to follow the same standards as the other payment systems and that will be probably be the end of them," he said.

http://www.businessinsider.com/jp-morgans-jamie-dimon-on-bitcoin-2014-1


Oh Jamie, how common of you.  That is the old method.

In response to the government-created problem of too-big-to-fail banks, new regulation was created for all banks.  The new regulation is the same no matter how big the bank so the little ones can barely afford it and have to sell out to the big ones, creating even more too-bigger-to-fail.

Banking regulation is often the use of law/government/force against your competition to ensure your continued capability to charge the highest fee.  It is no surprise that Dimon runs to this for defense.

P2P bitcoin puts this to the lie though.  When we are all our own bank, just how much regulation can be demanded?  It is not as though there is even a way to regulate every individual in this way.  Furthermore we are not asking for "consumer protections" we are asking for the opposite of that:  Protection from your consumer protections through the use of math and code.  Let us then protect ourselves, please.
1982  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Mining Song on: January 23, 2014, 04:39:05 PM
Aha a mining song. That's a new one! Actually found the chorus pretty catchy. "Another day older & deeper in debt" Tongue

I would say if you have use of a studio to run with it.

We're a few miles from Hollywood, there is a studio on every corner.
I think it needs a few rehearsals still Wink but I have a bunch more we can do too.
There's no money in music, but its fun anyhow.
1983  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the Council on Foreign Relations on: January 23, 2014, 03:54:23 PM
Also of interest from the CFR here is their paper suggestion that the IMF perform some regulatory activity in regards Bitcoin by referencing:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2248419
or
http://pastebin.com/xpBHMJMe

Of note, the CFR definitely treat Bitcoin primarily as a currency.

Essentially this shows how they are setting Bitcoin up to take the blame for some future national currency failures.  Section 5 of that paper may be of specific interest:
"V. HOW TO COUNTER THE BITCOIN THREAT VIA THE IMF"
What enforcement mechanism this may take is not determined and the document recognizes it as a problem.  Some of the mechanisms suggested would certainly take the help of someone like Gavin, others such as interfering in FOREX and Exchange markets are things they already do for other currencies.

The paper is bizarre in a number of ways, but what I find particularly odious is the repeated reference to a hypothesized "speculative attack by bitcoin holders". I suppose the author would characterize the 50% (hyper)inflation in Venezuelan bolivars right now as a "speculative attack by dollar holders". What he means by "attack" is voluntarily choosing to hold bitcoins instead of national currency.

To be fair, it *is* possible to short dollars against btc on margin by borrowing them, which of course is easier than it should be due to rigged low interest rates. He worries that raising interest rates would be terrible for national economies (read: terrible for banking cronies printing to QE infinity). That, of course, is us evil bitcoiners' fault.

Maybe it seems bizarre from our perspective?

Take it from their point of view.  These are the descendants of the folks that have created all the central banks.  It is their divine right to govern all the world and hold it to their standard such that any who seek their own liberty are an aberrant evil needing to be quashed.  The contempt sometimes bleeds through the artful rhetoric.  It is all for our own protection, you know.  Law and government are just tools to keep the wayward in line, fat, dumb and happily chewing cud and milked until slaughter time.

OK, that maybe goes a little far, most of them are not at all like that....but there are some few there for which it does not go far enough.
1984  Bitcoin / Mining / Mining Song on: January 23, 2014, 03:33:28 PM
In between hardware maintenance and dealing with electrical issues, we sometimes get some time for fun.

While goofing off, a couple of us put this together.
Its very rough, but figured some of you might get a kick out of it too so decided to share it.

https://soundcloud.com/newliberty-dollar/16-usbs

If anyone likes it, we can head over to the studio and do a decent recording next week.
1985  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: January 22, 2014, 10:12:54 PM
Almost every point you have quoted here with my name is not anything I said.  Please edit it and attribute it correctly, thanks.
Done.
Thank you for the kind request to correct myself, always appreciated.
1986  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: January 22, 2014, 10:07:18 PM

Give it a little while, if you're lax in your "rebalencing", you too many end up with 85% cryptos!  Smiley

I hope so! Smiley

BTC has to go x10 before I sell a little of it.

Great, your Hodling.  Give it a year or two, you will be as crazy as the rest of us at 85%.
1987  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: GHash.IO and double-spending against BetCoin Dice on: January 22, 2014, 10:02:59 PM
Ghash is at 38% again, watching the blockchain over the last week, their luck has been great, (as expected) so why would any miner WANT to leave,
it's something that needs to be looked at by the core devs at bitcoin.

It may be a much higher percentage than is indicated.
Due to the way the Getblocktemplate works it may be possible for ghash to mine its own blocks from within the eligius or triplemining or other pool with this enabled.  

Although the protocol is designed with the purpose of increasing decentralization, it seems capable of also doing the opposite.
Perhaps this protocol can allow a pool owner to mask an existing 51% capability.  If used sufficiently sparingly, would this even be detected?

I doubt. Although GBT allow you to submit any 'syntactically' valid block any pool operator wants to keep control on coinbase tx content at least. If I were a pool op I would implement the check of all other transactions submitted with a block that they match the set of tx previously sent to the gbt client as well. So, there should be no way to submit a block that has any intentionally altered data apart from nonce, extra nonce and possibly block time stamp when protocol allows it. I hope, that eligius op is aware of these possible targets of attack. So, targeting some hash power of the ghash.io on mining over gbt at eligius should not be harmful in any way IMO.

We agree it is unlikely.  Also unlikely is the families of ghash and eligius and btc guild all get kidnapped.  The point of this thread (it appears) is to identify and suggest amelioration techniques for the pool risks in proportion to their likelihood and potential harm.

We don't have transparency on which pools CEX equip is moved to, all this is speculation.  We really don't know the level of danger.
1988  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: January 22, 2014, 09:57:18 PM
However holding no crypto is just silly in my mind. The risk reward is just too great to not be in the game.


I absolutely agree - that's why I got me some!



I strong disagree that the odds of this are 0% esp  


Well, I guess not even the odds we are going to get hit by a meteor tomorrow and die are zero.


esp when Gold was $250ish 12 years ago and they have the ability to more or less set the price to whatever they want.


You really should read up a bit on gold - things like price of production, relation gold to monetary base, relation paper gold to physical, etc.. Also, they can't set the price to where they want - and believe me, they tried, especially in 2013...

To me in turn, 85% cryptos seems crazy. Smiley

Give it a little while, if you're lax in your "rebalencing", you too many end up with 85% cryptos!  Smiley
1989  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: January 22, 2014, 09:51:46 PM
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1vvfxz/google_confirms_their_payments_team_is_working_to/

update looks promising... and google turns everything in to goldddd

I hope they hurry, my turn to buy Google Glass has come up.  I'm not sure I want it, but if I do get it, I'd like to pay with bitcoin.
1990  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: January 22, 2014, 09:46:20 PM
I guess maybe you already knew all this about what Bitcoin is, and what it can be,

I believe I know enough about the positive arguments, and in general I do not dispute them.

Unfortunately there are negative or highly uncertain arguments and I have still to see good answers to them. "Selling" articles like Mark's generally avoid them.

The risk of bitcoins being stolen (possibly en masse) by hackers is an example.  
Negligible compared to the risks of credit card fraud.

Bitcoin is only one cryptocoin.  Why should it be the one to survive?
Survival until when?  Why only one?  Its 75th in the M1 rank now.  It may not survive, but is better suited to do so than half the world's currencies today.

Non-cancellation may be good for merchants (especially dishonest ones) but is bad for customers.  
Customers and Merchants share this interest.  It is pricing determinant in aggregate.
What is important here is the choice.  Pay more with consumer protection or less without.

Governments can ban, restrict, or heavily tax cryptocoins if it suits them.
They can also blow up the world many times over.  What me worry? YOLO!

What will prevent banks and Wall Street from taking control of Bitcoin?
You and me and that guy over there.

How could the value of a bitcoin be stabilized enough for merchants who thrive on 2% profit?
It doubles their profit to 4% by instant conversion to cash, and more than that if they use Bitpay, and opt for the payroll elements which let them pay their workers with it.  The business only accepts as much of the risk as they want to accept.  There are more than a few of us eager to take that risk for them that are more comfortable with that position.


And so on...


These are all very good and valid points, and you may not like my answers, but they work for a growing percentage of folks.   As they improve, so will that percentage.
1991  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the Council on Foreign Relations on: January 22, 2014, 09:35:54 PM
hmm..  

"Unremarked in any of the media coverage of the (Fed) appointments is the significant fact that all four of these Obama nominations to one of the most powerful institutions on the planet are not only members, but high-level operatives, of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the premier U.S. “think tank” promoting world government for the past century."

http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/item/17381-cfr-sweep-at-fed-obama-names-fischer-brainard-powell-to-join-yellen


More remarkable would be a Federal Reserve Board member that was NOT high up at CFR.  CFR members are a very large percentage of appointments.  The same folks started the CFR as the Federal reserve anyhow.
Are there members of the president's cabinet without CFR tenure?

As to the ridicule of "US Agenda" point raised early, some there may see weakening of the USA as a world authority as a necessary element of engendering war, which is the primary means of assuring all nations indebtedness to banking (Rothchild Formula).1  The theory being that a single "peacekeeper" national authority might presage decreased war.
Further to that, the banks have enough US debt established so to the extent that the US hedgemon can deter aggression from countries that are not currently in debt, US power runs counter to the bankers interests, as they don't need more war from the US.

From a completely cynical banker-power perspective this might make sense?

For purpose of full disclosure, I take CFR's Foreign Affairs subscription, and read much of what they put forward on many topics, but am not a member of anything related.

Also of interest from the CFR here is their paper suggestion that the IMF perform some regulatory activity in regards Bitcoin by referencing:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2248419
or
http://pastebin.com/xpBHMJMe

Of note, the CFR definitely treat Bitcoin primarily as a currency.

Essentially this shows how they are setting Bitcoin up to take the blame for some future national currency failures.  Section 5 of that paper may be of specific interest:
"V. HOW TO COUNTER THE BITCOIN THREAT VIA THE IMF"
What enforcement mechanism this may take is not determined and the document recognizes it as a problem.  Some of the mechanisms suggested would certainly take the help of someone like Gavin, others such as interfering in FOREX and Exchange markets are things they already do for other currencies.
1992  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: January 22, 2014, 07:11:02 PM
I'm a moon citizen, so SHOTR and get a MAGRIN KALL after this:



So the fair value for Jan 2014 is somewhere between US$180 and US$18000 per BTC?  Hard to argue with that.

We run 100x in a year and not going to crash. So, I guess every price is fair for BTC.
100x?  Pump much? Smiley
As a user I'd be happier with 2x-6x with lower highs and higher lows.  As an investor, CCMF.
1993  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: GHash.IO and double-spending against BetCoin Dice on: January 22, 2014, 07:05:03 PM
Ghash is at 38% again, watching the blockchain over the last week, their luck has been great, (as expected) so why would any miner WANT to leave,
it's something that needs to be looked at by the core devs at bitcoin.

It may be a much higher percentage than is indicated.
Due to the way the Getblocktemplate works it may be possible for ghash to mine its own blocks from within the eligius or triplemining or other pool with this enabled. 

Although the protocol is designed with the purpose of increasing decentralization, it seems capable of also doing the opposite.
Perhaps this protocol can allow a pool owner to mask an existing 51% capability.  If used sufficiently sparingly, would this even be detected?
1994  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: January 22, 2014, 06:46:12 PM
I'm a moon citizen, so SHOTR and get a MAGRIN KALL after this:



So the fair value for Jan 2014 is somewhere between US$180 and US$18000 per BTC?  Hard to argue with that.
1995  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][MONA] Monacoin LAUNCHING 2014/01/01 0:00 GMT on: January 22, 2014, 06:40:10 PM
WTB 10k MONA. 10k = 0.12 BTC or 1k=0.012 BTC. PM me.

WTS MONA.

1000 for 0.15 BTC. PM me with offer/quantity.


Lol, nice spread between asks and bids..  Grin

“Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was myself. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.”
― Zhuangzi

I dreamt I was a butterfly
dreaming it was me
Awaken! it cried
I did,
it died.
1996  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: January 22, 2014, 05:59:54 PM
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-incredible-gold-interest-rate-correlation-2014-01-22
TL;DR: Suggests proper price of AU is US$800/oz based on recent historical links to bond interest rates.

We may get gold ozt parity ahead of US$1K parity?
1997  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the Council on Foreign Relations on: January 22, 2014, 04:10:41 PM
Question: What do you call a Bitcoin which has the advantage of full compliance but the disadvantage of freezable wallets, fully traceable transactions and black-listable coins?

Answer:  A traditional bank account.


I.e If any change is implemented that effects the principals on which Bitcoin was founded it will just fork and take 80% of it's user base with it.
It will be so obvious it is no longer 'Bitcoin' that it's one of the biggest non-threats I've come across.  
I think what Gavin is doing is very smart, it buys Bitcoin (Which does have some actual weak spots - like  the centralisation of mining) a lot of time to expand & address issues without being curtailed.

In fact I'd encourage him to offer them a Bitcoin that has everything they could possibly want and more to be included in single update with 6 months notice. (Of course this will set him up as Dr. Evil in the eyes of the Bitcoin community but it looks like it's a sacrifice his willing to make.)

Question: Should I stay on the original Bitcoin fork or switch over to Bitchcoin?

Answer: Hmm, such a tough decision...

Personally, my response is, thank you.

Wouldn't it be nice to see that list?  It might be different from what's expected.  With all the fiat that came from the CFR's forebears, they might ask for something interesting and telling, they've been at this a long time.

Unless something changes, the future leaders of the US Government will be in that room.

They can be expected to believe what they have written here:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43339.pdf
Which they reference here:
http://www.cfr.org/economics/crs-bitcoin-questions-answers-analysis-legal-issues/p32148
It cites some of the more wicked expansions of monetary authority and centralization in US caselaw.

That they are coming to you for your help in these early days is surely interesting, you will take on a bit of their taint in this transaction, and they yours.  
1998  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: FAIR Lottery on: January 22, 2014, 06:02:31 AM
For charities:
http://bitcoin100.org/charities/
and of course Sean's Outpost and Satoshi forest:
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6939/seans-outpost-announces-satoshi-forest/

1999  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: January 22, 2014, 04:53:07 AM
Whether the last 5 years has invalidated the money as memory of the last 4000 years remains to be seen.  

your use of memory is somewhat tortured there but stimulated my memory of this excellent paper on memory:

Bitcoin is Memory

The allusion was intentional, as was the torture. Wink
2000  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: January 22, 2014, 03:47:05 AM
Probably you are just way ahead of most of the world.  I still get better response on my waitress straw polling with PM.  By a long margin, they still like gold and silver and don't know or trust bitcoin.  They are happy to take either gold or silver as a tip but bitcoin not so much.

Whether the last 5 years has invalidated the money as memory of the last 4000 years remains to be seen.  As eager as anyone to see it happen and helping as much as I can, though am far from confidant or sure of success.

Bitcoin is in beta.  These are early days.  It can still go to zero or to the moon any anyone who knows which of those it will be is ignoring too many issues to be worth taking their advice.
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